From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Feb 2 21:08:39 2011 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, February 3 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3270 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: and now, some humor... xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 Re: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 Re: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 xj: horsepower info - engine swap ideas xj: who would have thought... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 13:11:56 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: and now, some humor... http://www.arcamax.com/newspics/15/1559/155922.gif ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 17:41:48 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 road test pictures; http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/roadtest.html http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/all.html craigslist ad for my Jetta: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2192611568.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, john wrote: # definitely an improvement over the 2.2L # # I like the car... I also like being married... so I'm going to approach my wife # this evening, I know what she's going to say (after 36 years I would hope so), # she's going to say, sell your VW first... # # ok... the guy selling the benz isn't in a hurry, I'll float that by him as well # and see if he'll hold the car for a couple of weeks for me. # # If this Jetta wagon did not have body damage and rebuilt title it would sell for $12k. # I'll be lucky if I can get anything in the neighborhood of $7k for it... # # If you're interested, float me an offer... # # the 190D has a few issues... minor stuff for it's age, the original becker radio # still works... there are some vacuum related issues, ignition switch is a little loose (terror!!!), # the antenna needs to be replaced, but the cruise worked! the a/c likely needs to be # recharged, still with r12, sunroof needs to be lubed, all the doors need lube or # door checks, some of the windows resisted operation... all typical for a mercedes # that hasn't seen a lot of recent use. driver's seat is a little wonky, broken, normal... # # trunk and underneath was clean, paint is oxidized and worn, just like on my '91. # # car felt good in traffic, quick enough off the line to avoid certain death cutting # in front of traffic... steering felt great, brakes a little harder to push than # my '91 or my jetta... turning radius was very nice... steering wheel felt good in # my hands. # # I would say it performed as well or maybe even better than my '91 300D with the 2.5 Turbo... # of course mine has suffered under biodiesel... :) # # pictures to follow... # # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 20:09:58 -0800 (PST) From: Ed Kummel Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 I love the Porsche badge on the grill! Ed web/gadget guru - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ "Driving a car is a lot like a child's coloring book...you really should strive to stay within the lines" --Ed - --- On Tue, 2/1/11, john wrote: From: john Subject: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 To: Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 8:41 PM road test pictures; http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/roadtest.html http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/all.html craigslist ad for my Jetta: http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2192611568.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, john wrote: # definitely an improvement over the 2.2L # # I like the car... I also like being married... so I'm going to approach my wife # this evening, I know what she's going to say (after 36 years I would hope so), # she's going to say, sell your VW first... # # ok... the guy selling the benz isn't in a hurry, I'll float that by him as well # and see if he'll hold the car for a couple of weeks for me. # # If this Jetta wagon did not have body damage and rebuilt title it would sell for $12k. # I'll be lucky if I can get anything in the neighborhood of $7k for it... # # If you're interested, float me an offer... # # the 190D has a few issues... minor stuff for it's age, the original becker radio # still works... there are some vacuum related issues, ignition switch is a little loose (terror!!!), # the antenna needs to be replaced, but the cruise worked! the a/c likely needs to be # recharged, still with r12, sunroof needs to be lubed, all the doors need lube or # door checks, some of the windows resisted operation... all typical for a mercedes # that hasn't seen a lot of recent use. driver's seat is a little wonky, broken, normal... # # trunk and underneath was clean, paint is oxidized and worn, just like on my '91. # # car felt good in traffic, quick enough off the line to avoid certain death cutting # in front of traffic... steering felt great, brakes a little harder to push than # my '91 or my jetta... turning radius was very nice... steering wheel felt good in # my hands. # # I would say it performed as well or maybe even better than my '91 300D with the 2.5 Turbo... # of course mine has suffered under biodiesel... :) # # pictures to follow... # # # john # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 21:40:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 I'm sure it's doing the same thing my mileage award is doing on my 91, hiding damage. :) Hey, if I buy it, do you want it? :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, Ed Kummel wrote: # I love the Porsche badge on the grill! # Ed # web/gadget guru # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # "Driving a car is a lot like a child's coloring book...you really should # strive to stay within the lines" # # --Ed # # --- On Tue, 2/1/11, john wrote: # # From: john # Subject: xj: Re: [db] road test 190D 2.5 # To: # Date: Tuesday, February 1, 2011, 8:41 PM # # road test pictures; # # http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/roadtest.html # # http://johnmeister.com/DieselBenz/CARS/87-190D/all.html # # craigslist ad for my Jetta: # http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2192611568.html # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Tue, 1 Feb 2011, john wrote: # # # definitely an improvement over the 2.2L # # # # I like the car... I also like being married... so I'm going to approach my # wife # # this evening, I know what she's going to say (after 36 years I would hope # so), # # she's going to say, sell your VW first... # # # # ok... the guy selling the benz isn't in a hurry, I'll float that by him as # well # # and see if he'll hold the car for a couple of weeks for me. # # # # If this Jetta wagon did not have body damage and rebuilt title it would # sell for $12k. # # I'll be lucky if I can get anything in the neighborhood of $7k for it... # # # # If you're interested, float me an offer... # # # # the 190D has a few issues... minor stuff for it's age, the original becker # radio # # still works... there are some vacuum related issues, ignition switch is a # little loose (terror!!!), # # the antenna needs to be replaced, but the cruise worked! the a/c likely # needs to be # # recharged, still with r12, sunroof needs to be lubed, all the doors need # lube or # # door checks, some of the windows resisted operation... all typical for a # mercedes # # that hasn't seen a lot of recent use. driver's seat is a little wonky, # broken, normal... # # # # trunk and underneath was clean, paint is oxidized and worn, just like on my # '91. # # # # car felt good in traffic, quick enough off the line to avoid certain death # cutting # # in front of traffic... steering felt great, brakes a little harder to push # than # # my '91 or my jetta... turning radius was very nice... steering wheel felt # good in # # my hands. # # # # I would say it performed as well or maybe even better than my '91 300D with # the 2.5 Turbo... # # of course mine has suffered under biodiesel... :) # # # # pictures to follow... # # # # # # john # # # # # # ----- # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum # # http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us # # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 09:51:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: horsepower info - engine swap ideas http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/engines-comparison-October-2008.txt full details below: ================================================= Benz Model/Engine --601 series-- - -84-85 190D 2.2 chassis 201.122 /engine 601.921 72hp -at- 4200 rpm, 96 ftlbs -at- 2800 rpm --602 series-- - -86-89 190D 2.5 chassis 201.126 /engine 602.911 non-turbo 93hp -at- 4100 rpm, 122 ftlbs -at- 2800 rpm - -87 190D 2.5 TD chassis 201.128 /engine 602.961 turbo 123 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 168 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm - -91 300d 2.5 Turbo Diesel chassis 124.128 /engine 602.962 turbo 121 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 165 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm --603 series-- - -86-87 300SDL chassis 126.125 /engine 603.961 148 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 201 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm - -91 350SD chassis 126.134 /engine 603.970 <--- 3.5L TD - BEWARE 150 hp -at- 4000 rpm, 229 ftlbs -at- 2200 rpm - -87 300d 3.0L chassis 124.133 /engine 603.960 143 hp -at- 4600 rpm, 195 ftlbs -at- 2400 rpm --606 series-- - -95 E300d 3.0L chassis 124.131 /engine 606.910 ???? --616 series-- - -77-83 240d chassis 123.123 /engine 616.912 72 hp -at- 4,400 - 97 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) --617 series-- - -77-81 300d 3.0L chassis 123.130 /engine 617.912 88 hp -at- 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs -at- 2,400 - -81-85 300SD chassis 126.120 /engine 617.951 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 - -82-85 300d 3.0L TD chassis 123.133 /engine 617.952 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 year - engine - HP -at- rpm - torque -at- rpm - -------------------------------------- 83 - J10 4.2L - 115 hp -at- 3,200 - 210 ft lbs -at- 1,800 <-- original 97 - ZJ 4.0L - 185 hp -at- 4,600 - 220 ft lbs -at- 2,400 99 - WJ 4.7L - 235 hp -at- 4,800 - 295 ft lbs -at- 3,200 <-- WJ 99 - WJ 4.0L - 195 hp -at- 4,600 - 230 ft lbs -at- 3,000 83 - J10 360V8 - 129 hp -at- 3,700 - 245 ft lbs -at- 1,600 <-- Old Blue 88 - XJ 4.0L - 177 hp -at- 4,500 - 224 ft lbs -at- 2,500 <-- little wagoneer 91 - XJ 4.0L - 190 hp -at- 4,750 - 225 ft lbs -at- 4,000 97 - ZJ 5.2L - 220 hp -at- 4,400 - 300 ft lbs -at- 3,200 78 - SJ 401V8 - 215 hp -at- 4,400 - 320 ft lbs -at- 2,800 <-- 401 V8 88 - GM 6.2L Dsl- 130 hp -at- 3,600 - 240 ft lbs -at- 2,000 94 - GM 6.5L TD - 215 hp -at- 3,200 - 440 lb-ft -at- 1,800 GAS V8s 88 - GM 350V8-FI- 210 hp -at- 4,000 - 300 ft lbs -at- 2,800 89 - Ford 302-FI- 185 hp -at- 3,400 - 270 ft lbs -at- 2,400 Mercedes Diesels - -------------------------------- 85 - 190D 2.2L - 72 hp -at- 4,200 - 96 ft lbs -at- 2,800 (normally aspirated) 83 - 240D 2.4L - 72 hp -at- 4,400 - 97 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) 87 - 190D 2.5L - 123 hp -at- 4,600 - 168 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) 81 - 300D 3.0L - 88 hp -at- 4,400 - 126.6 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (normally aspirated) <-- fritz 83 - 300SD 3.0L - 125 hp -at- 4,350 - 170 ft lbs -at- 2,400 (TURBO) - ------------------------------------------------- CUMMINS 3.9/5.9 4BT/6BT Specifications B3.9 B5.9 4BT 6BT ADVERTISED HP 110-125 150-173 HP 82-93 KW 112-129 KW PEAK TORQUE 346-373 LB-FT 453-580 LB-FT 469-506 N.M 614-786 N.M NUMBER OF CYLINDERS 4 6 OIL SYSTEM 11.5 U.S. QT 17.2 U.S. QT CAPACITY 10.9 LITERS 16.3 LITERS WET WEIGHT 745-782 LB 952-997 LB 338-355 KG 432-452 KG LENGTH 30.6 IN 40.0 IN 777 MM 1016 MM WIDTH 24.6 IN 24.9 IN 625 MM 632 MM HEIGHT 37.7 IN 37.9 IN 958 MM 963 MM ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2011 20:50:49 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: who would have thought... who would have thought I'd have such a response to selling a damaged Jetta TDI? I got three emails after being more adament about the price and the damage on craigslist... weird. Anyway, decided to keep it a while longer, have two people willing to wait, asked me to let them know when it's for sale again. They were both quite disappointed. I called the one guy who was coming up in the morning... The Jetta wagons are very desireable. I am disappointed in that 190D. If those back doors had operated better I'd have gone through with it... that thing must have been hit pretty hard to do that. the axle had been replaced from the looks of it. Watch, I'll hit craigslist tomorrow and there'll be another 190D, maybe even the elusive 2.5L Turbo Diesel available. ;) oh well, the jetta is likely to take us to South Dakota and Chicago this May... affordable trip machine. My wife wants to meet with her sisters in South Dakota and I want to make a family reunion at the end of May in Chicago. Can make that ROUND trip on less than $300 worth of fuel at $3.50+ a gallon... we couldn't even get the WJ to South Dakota for that much. :) The 300D would get us there and 500 miles back... so it's still a viable option. so the fleet remains the same... still trying to reach curtis to find out if the superdawg recovery project is still on. once superdawg is on the road the jetta will be too... on down the road that is. :) -o|||||o- city/hwy engine/trans/xfr - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2003 VW Jetta GLS Wagon TDI 38/52 mpg 1.9L TDI/5spd 1991 Mercedes 300D (124) 30/39 mpg 2.5L Turbo Diesel/AT (Shadowfax) 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee (WJ) 14/21 mpg 4.7L V8/45RFE/NV247 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1975 Jeep J10 long bed (SJ) hydraulic dump trailer - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1983 Jeep J10 Stepside (SJ) (Superdawg)- under construction since 1999 getting '80 Scout SD33T Diesel, TF727/NP208 mpg: 20/24 expected -o|||||o- http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Snohomish, Washington -o|||||o- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 si vis pacem, para bellum http://johnmeister.com http://wagoneers.com http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3270 *************************