From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Mon May 30 10:51:37 2011 From: xj-digest xj-digest Monday, May 30 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3287 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep RE: xj: TDI Jeep Re: xj: TDI Jeep XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 11:58:25 -0400 From: "Darren K. Page" Subject: xj: TDI Jeep For the diesel lovers: http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm Darren ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 16:17:31 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep Just a note about TDIs, a working used motor of the years they mention will run about 3-4k, out of a yard. The 99-04 alh will run about 3k. Add their 3k and you're at 6k before you buiy a 2.5l yj. jeep, those run about 3-6k... Tdi's are fine engines, but have rubber bands and for the money, power and maintenance you'f be better off with.6.2 or mercedes. The 82-85 3" TDs are plentiful and cheap. However, since I have a vw I might look into this anyway. :) - ------Original Message------ From: Darren K. Page Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net To: xj ReplyTo: xj Subject: xj: TDI Jeep Sent: May 30, 2011 08:58 For the diesel lovers: http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm Darren *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 09:58:49 -0700 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep while i love the general simplicity of our Mercedes 617 turbo, i can totally understand the desire to have an engine in our J**p that weighs less, and makes more horsepower and/or torque, all the while getting better fuel economy. "rubber band"? if you're referring to the timing belt, so what; that's basic maintenance for most modern cars these days, but only comes around every 100K Km or so. all your numbers seem high based on what i see in my area and on their web page. even if you add them up at your suggested prices, what else could you buy for that money that would do the same job? cheers! e On 30/May/11 09:17, john wrote: > Just a note about TDIs, a working used motor of the years they mention will run about 3-4k, out of a yard. The 99-04 alh will run about 3k. Add their 3k and you're at 6k before you buiy a 2.5l yj. jeep, those run about 3-6k... > > Tdi's are fine engines, but have rubber bands and for the money, power and maintenance you'f be better off with.6.2 or mercedes. The 82-85 3" TDs are plentiful and cheap. > > However, since I have a vw I might look into this anyway. :) > ------Original Message------ > From: Darren K. Page > Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net > To: xj > ReplyTo: xj > Subject: xj: TDI Jeep > Sent: May 30, 2011 08:58 > > For the diesel lovers: > > http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm > > > > Darren > > > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:10:40 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep you can buy an OM617 for $500-$1500, a kit to install in the same YJ/TJ 5 speed setup for $500. yes, timing belts... on the TDI you have to replace the water pump, and in the vw, remove a motor mount, it'll cost you several hundred bucks for the tools, or nearly a grand at an independent shop... and it's 80,000 miles unless you buy the more expensive belt... which most do... factory specs, 80,000. check car-parts.com for a TDI engine... if you cand find one for less than $2k I'll be very surprised. The best deal I could find for mine was $2,700. Just looked high and low, called yards, looked on forums, etc... I ended up fixing mine for about $1500. sure, the TDIs put out a lot of power for their weight, great engines... but unless you're really lucky, finding one will be hard... even a used TDI will cost more than a used 300GD. :) I've got a Jetta TDI that has about $2k of body damage... it would sell for about 10-12k fixed... most normal folks would look at it and offer me less than half that for it... but I could sell it tomorrow for almost 8k just because it's a tdi... the prices are high for the TDIs... that's my point... parts are in demand, expensive and hard to find... but I'm happy with mine. but y'all did get me thinking about that Mercedes conversion in a YJ again... my son may be selling his '85 300D... :) I've got a wild hair about another cj/yj/tj... stay tuned... ;) btw, the '01 rav4 I picked up has a timing chain... the newer mercedes Diesels have timing chains... the 4.0, 4.7 and other older Jeep engines, have timing chains... ...and I found out, the hard way, that timing chains don't always last forever... so maybe rubber bands ain't as bad as I thought... ;) ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 30 May 2011, ernest breakfield wrote: # while i love the general simplicity of our Mercedes 617 turbo, i can # totally understand the desire to have an engine in our J**p that weighs # less, and makes more horsepower and/or torque, all the while getting # better fuel economy. # "rubber band"? if you're referring to the timing belt, so what; # that's basic maintenance for most modern cars these days, but only comes # around every 100K Km or so. # # all your numbers seem high based on what i see in my area and on # their web page. even if you add them up at your suggested prices, what # else could you buy for that money that would do the same job? # # # cheers! # e # # # On 30/May/11 09:17, john wrote: # > Just a note about TDIs, a working used motor of the years they mention will run about 3-4k, out of a yard. The 99-04 alh will run about 3k. Add their 3k and you're at 6k before you buiy a 2.5l yj. jeep, those run about 3-6k... # > # > Tdi's are fine engines, but have rubber bands and for the money, power and maintenance you'f be better off with.6.2 or mercedes. The 82-85 3" TDs are plentiful and cheap. # > # > However, since I have a vw I might look into this anyway. :) # > ------Original Message------ # > From: Darren K. Page # > Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net # > To: xj # > ReplyTo: xj # > Subject: xj: TDI Jeep # > Sent: May 30, 2011 08:58 # > # > For the diesel lovers: # > # > http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm # > # > # > # > Darren # > # > # > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:20:12 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep here's a more affordable solution: http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/OM617AdapterKits.aspx however, having owned both types of Diesels... the TDI is amazing, but higher maintenance than the Mercedes... the TDI has computer controls - an EGR system that clogs up the intake... a weaker style injection pump... and aforementioned timing belt, aka rubber band. the om617s have a timing chain and need periodic valve adjustment, can run quite happily on veggie oil, wvo, biodiesel, etc. because they have a cam style pump... the tdi uses a rotary vane pump that has some sensitive electronics on top that clog up easily and create all kinds of issues... if I had a spare TDI and a Wrangler, I'd probably do that over the Mercedes just for power and more compact size... but for reliability and reduced electrical/wiring issues, I'd go with the Benz setup... and I just might... :) great link Darren, thanx... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 30 May 2011, Darren K. Page wrote: # For the diesel lovers: # # http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm # # # # Darren # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 18:40:10 +0100 From: Stephen Rigley Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep Might be worth a look here if after a used TDi On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 6:10 PM, john wrote: > you can buy an OM617 for $500-$1500, a kit to install in the same YJ/TJ 5 > speed setup for $500. > > yes, timing belts... on the TDI you have to replace the water pump, and in > the vw, remove a motor mount, > it'll cost you several hundred bucks for the tools, or nearly a grand at an > independent shop... and it's > 80,000 miles unless you buy the more expensive belt... which most do... > factory specs, 80,000. > > check car-parts.com for a TDI engine... if you cand find one for less > than $2k I'll be very surprised. > > The best deal I could find for mine was $2,700. Just looked high and low, > called yards, looked on forums, > etc... I ended up fixing mine for about $1500. > > sure, the TDIs put out a lot of power for their weight, great engines... > but unless you're really lucky, > finding one will be hard... > > even a used TDI will cost more than a used 300GD. :) > > I've got a Jetta TDI that has about $2k of body damage... it would sell for > about 10-12k fixed... most > normal folks would look at it and offer me less than half that for it... > but I could sell it tomorrow > for almost 8k just because it's a tdi... the prices are high for the > TDIs... > > > that's my point... parts are in demand, expensive and hard to find... but > I'm happy with mine. > > > but y'all did get me thinking about that Mercedes conversion in a YJ > again... my son may be > selling his '85 300D... :) I've got a wild hair about another cj/yj/tj... > > stay tuned... ;) > > > btw, the '01 rav4 I picked up has a timing chain... > > the newer mercedes Diesels have timing chains... > > the 4.0, 4.7 and other older Jeep engines, have timing chains... > > ...and I found out, the hard way, that timing chains don't always last > forever... so maybe rubber > bands ain't as bad as I thought... ;) > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Mon, 30 May 2011, ernest breakfield wrote: > > # while i love the general simplicity of our Mercedes 617 turbo, i can > # totally understand the desire to have an engine in our J**p that weighs > # less, and makes more horsepower and/or torque, all the while getting > # better fuel economy. > # "rubber band"? if you're referring to the timing belt, so what; > # that's basic maintenance for most modern cars these days, but only comes > # around every 100K Km or so. > # > # all your numbers seem high based on what i see in my area and on > # their web page. even if you add them up at your suggested prices, what > # else could you buy for that money that would do the same job? > # > # > # cheers! > # e > # > # > # On 30/May/11 09:17, john wrote: > # > Just a note about TDIs, a working used motor of the years they mention > will run about 3-4k, out of a yard. The 99-04 alh will run about 3k. Add > their 3k and you're at 6k before you buiy a 2.5l yj. jeep, those run about > 3-6k... > # > > # > Tdi's are fine engines, but have rubber bands and for the money, > power and maintenance you'f be better off with.6.2 or mercedes. The 82-85 3" > TDs are plentiful and cheap. > # > > # > However, since I have a vw I might look into this anyway. :) > # > ------Original Message------ > # > From: Darren K. Page > # > Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net > # > To: xj > # > ReplyTo: xj > # > Subject: xj: TDI Jeep > # > Sent: May 30, 2011 08:58 > # > > # > For the diesel lovers: > # > > # > http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm > # > > # > > # > > # > Darren > # > > # > > # > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** > # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:51:37 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep the TDIs have a lot of potential... one can put out a LOT of horsepower. A simple "mistake" when repairing mine netted 20% power increase, and only a slight lower fuel economy... got the 11mm pump instead of the 10mm pump... all of those power tweaks though can come with increased risk of breakage... this realm of TDI tweaking is also popular among the Cummins folks... it is quite appealing... being able to get 43 mpg in town if I drive really gentle, and still be able to smoke the tires... the TDIs go nicely into Samauris too... What kind of prices do you see on the TDI engines down there? Gas Jettas are a lot less money... could build a nice TDI... I'm going to work with my son on his '85 300d... might be able to do some horsetrading with him for the OM617... and then I may try to trade my '83 J10 for a CJ/YJ/TJ and get the kit from: http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/OM617AdapterKits.aspx we'll see... first step is to go and test drive a YJ/TJ to see if I really want one... I like this Jetta Wagon... averaged 45 mpg doing interstate speed limits... keeping them down around 60 mph will get you close to the 50mpg mark... saw a post on one of the tdi forums to put in a taller overdrive gear, that would work nicely.... but the part was around $700 alone!!! yikes... I've spent a lot of money trying to save money... :) at some point I have to realize that making these mods and building these custom jeeps doesn't get me where I want to be... I can pay at the parts store/yard or at the pump... who ya gonna pay? :) john On 05/30/2011 09:58 AM, ernest breakfield wrote: > while i love the general simplicity of our Mercedes 617 turbo, i can > totally understand the desire to have an engine in our J**p that weighs > less, and makes more horsepower and/or torque, all the while getting > better fuel economy. > "rubber band"? if you're referring to the timing belt, so what; > that's basic maintenance for most modern cars these days, but only comes > around every 100K Km or so. > > all your numbers seem high based on what i see in my area and on > their web page. even if you add them up at your suggested prices, what > else could you buy for that money that would do the same job? > > > cheers! > e > > > On 30/May/11 09:17, john wrote: > >> Just a note about TDIs, a working used motor of the years they mention will run about 3-4k, out of a yard. The 99-04 alh will run about 3k. Add their 3k and you're at 6k before you buiy a 2.5l yj. jeep, those run about 3-6k... >> >> Tdi's are fine engines, but have rubber bands and for the money, power and maintenance you'f be better off with.6.2 or mercedes. The 82-85 3" TDs are plentiful and cheap. >> >> However, since I have a vw I might look into this anyway. :) >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Darren K. Page >> Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net >> To: xj >> ReplyTo: xj >> Subject: xj: TDI Jeep >> Sent: May 30, 2011 08:58 >> >> For the diesel lovers: >> >> http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm >> >> >> >> Darren >> >> >> *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 13:48:47 -0400 From: "Darren K. Page" Subject: RE: xj: TDI Jeep No problem, came up on my local club list. I had no clue that it would spark so much debate though ;) Darren - -----Original Message----- From: owner-xj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-xj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Monday, May 30, 2011 1:20 PM To: xj-at-digest.net Cc: diesel-benz list; full size jeep list; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com; cj-10 list Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep here's a more affordable solution: http://mercedesdiesel4x4.com/OM617AdapterKits.aspx however, having owned both types of Diesels... the TDI is amazing, but higher maintenance than the Mercedes... the TDI has computer controls - an EGR system that clogs up the intake... a weaker style injection pump... and aforementioned timing belt, aka rubber band. the om617s have a timing chain and need periodic valve adjustment, can run quite happily on veggie oil, wvo, biodiesel, etc. because they have a cam style pump... the tdi uses a rotary vane pump that has some sensitive electronics on top that clog up easily and create all kinds of issues... if I had a spare TDI and a Wrangler, I'd probably do that over the Mercedes just for power and more compact size... but for reliability and reduced electrical/wiring issues, I'd go with the Benz setup... and I just might... :) great link Darren, thanx... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 30 May 2011, Darren K. Page wrote: # For the diesel lovers: # # http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm # # # # Darren # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 10:57:48 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: xj: TDI Jeep quite a different set of pricing stateside: http://motors.shop.ebay.com/Complete-Engines-/33615/i.html?_nkw=VW+1.9L+TDI&_catref=1&_dmpt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&_fln=1&_trksid=p4506.c0.m282 1.5k-3.5k USD shipping might equal things out from Europe though... so we're still out of our price point. ;) john On 05/30/2011 10:40 AM, Stephen Rigley wrote: > Might be worth a look here > if > after a used TDi > > > On Mon, May 30, 2011 at 6:10 PM, john wrote: > > >> you can buy an OM617 for $500-$1500, a kit to install in the same YJ/TJ 5 >> speed setup for $500. >> >> yes, timing belts... on the TDI you have to replace the water pump, and in >> the vw, remove a motor mount, >> it'll cost you several hundred bucks for the tools, or nearly a grand at an >> independent shop... and it's >> 80,000 miles unless you buy the more expensive belt... which most do... >> factory specs, 80,000. >> >> check car-parts.com for a TDI engine... if you cand find one for less >> than $2k I'll be very surprised. >> >> The best deal I could find for mine was $2,700. Just looked high and low, >> called yards, looked on forums, >> etc... I ended up fixing mine for about $1500. >> >> sure, the TDIs put out a lot of power for their weight, great engines... >> but unless you're really lucky, >> finding one will be hard... >> >> even a used TDI will cost more than a used 300GD. :) >> >> I've got a Jetta TDI that has about $2k of body damage... it would sell for >> about 10-12k fixed... most >> normal folks would look at it and offer me less than half that for it... >> but I could sell it tomorrow >> for almost 8k just because it's a tdi... the prices are high for the >> TDIs... >> >> >> that's my point... parts are in demand, expensive and hard to find... but >> I'm happy with mine. >> >> >> but y'all did get me thinking about that Mercedes conversion in a YJ >> again... my son may be >> selling his '85 300D... :) I've got a wild hair about another cj/yj/tj... >> >> stay tuned... ;) >> >> >> btw, the '01 rav4 I picked up has a timing chain... >> >> the newer mercedes Diesels have timing chains... >> >> the 4.0, 4.7 and other older Jeep engines, have timing chains... >> >> ...and I found out, the hard way, that timing chains don't always last >> forever... so maybe rubber >> bands ain't as bad as I thought... ;) >> >> >> ----- >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> -o|||||o- >> Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold >> http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 >> http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> >> On Mon, 30 May 2011, ernest breakfield wrote: >> >> # while i love the general simplicity of our Mercedes 617 turbo, i can >> # totally understand the desire to have an engine in our J**p that weighs >> # less, and makes more horsepower and/or torque, all the while getting >> # better fuel economy. >> # "rubber band"? if you're referring to the timing belt, so what; >> # that's basic maintenance for most modern cars these days, but only comes >> # around every 100K Km or so. >> # >> # all your numbers seem high based on what i see in my area and on >> # their web page. even if you add them up at your suggested prices, what >> # else could you buy for that money that would do the same job? >> # >> # >> # cheers! >> # e >> # >> # >> # On 30/May/11 09:17, john wrote: >> # > Just a note about TDIs, a working used motor of the years they mention >> will run about 3-4k, out of a yard. The 99-04 alh will run about 3k. Add >> their 3k and you're at 6k before you buiy a 2.5l yj. jeep, those run about >> 3-6k... >> # > >> # > Tdi's are fine engines, but have rubber bands and for the money, >> power and maintenance you'f be better off with.6.2 or mercedes. The 82-85 3" >> TDs are plentiful and cheap. >> # > >> # > However, since I have a vw I might look into this anyway. :) >> # > ------Original Message------ >> # > From: Darren K. Page >> # > Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net >> # > To: xj >> # > ReplyTo: xj >> # > Subject: xj: TDI Jeep >> # > Sent: May 30, 2011 08:58 >> # > >> # > For the diesel lovers: >> # > >> # > http://www.hpamotorsport.com/tdijeep.htm >> # > >> # > >> # > >> # > Darren >> # > >> # > >> # > *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** >> # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3287 *************************