From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jun 9 14:25:32 2011 From: xj-digest xj-digest Thursday, June 9 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3287 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: xj: technical question... have an idea... xj: RE: fsj: technical question... have an idea... xj: nitrogen in tires Re: xj: nitrogen in tires xj: condensed version of road trip xj: =?Windows-1252?B?SmVlcCBHcmFuZCBDaGVyb2tlZSBGdWVsIFRhbmtzIFNwYXJrIGEgU2FmZXR5IFByb2JloC2gRGFpbHlGaW5hbmNl?= xj: cost of some ideas... XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:31:34 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: [db] RE: fsj: Re: xj: technical question... have an idea... ah, it was perfectly clear in my mind... ok, here's the COMPLETE thought, or the rest of the story... :) thinking of yarding a complete '85 300D 3.0L/AT engine/trans out of a 123 and putting that lock stock and shifter into a CJ/YJ/TJ/XJ/WJ? and then putting an electric, or maybe a hydraulic motor, on the front axle diff to provide low speed 4x4 action... however, with the hydraulic motor/pump setup one could use it as an advanced hybrid... stopping and starting with it and then using the Diesel engine to supplement traction and to carry on once the bladder is empty... the accumulator I mean... :) I've messed with adapters and such, expensive and often heavy... by keeping the Mercedes engine/trans mated up you have the most efficient solution possible, and then just pop a motor on the front diff if you want it to be a 4x4, which of course is what I would want... in order to get out of my driveway... 4x4 is great, but one doesn't need it except for a few times even when on a trail... I've gone through sections of off-road parks in 2wd with my XJ passing Toyota four runners that were stuck in 4wd... and I'm not kidding... IFS is horrible on trails out here, the ruts are deep with high centers... a live axle just scraps the diff housing in the clay/mud or bounces over the rocks but the tires are able to reach bottom usually... whereas the IFS has so much hanging down at 45 deg angles usually that it just settles on top and goes no where... without a log in a rut, a high lift or a tow rope/winch... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Jim Hoffman wrote: # See, John never comes right out and says what he's doing up front. # We get the "whole" story only after we've stumbled down a few wrong # paths first. # # ;) # # Jim # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 12:36:13 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: RE: fsj: technical question... have an idea... there's times when some vehicles can't make it up... if I have a load I need to use low range with my J10... ;) tall gears don't make for fun up hill at slow speed... my '85 xj with the french 2.1L turbo Diesel was like that, had to use low range to get started... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # Your battery would be dead before the top. # # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # # # # # > Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 09:42:02 -0700 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: carnuck-at-hotmail.com # > CC: fsj-digest-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net # > Subject: RE: fsj: technical question... have an idea... # > # > how long is my driveway? # > # > or how long does it take to reach 5 or 10 mph? # > # > :) # > # > # > # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > -o|||||o- # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Jim Blair wrote: # > # > # # > # You forget that alternators only make so much power. The battery only has # so much capacity too. # > # # > # Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 # > # # > # # > # # > # # > # > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:55:01 -0700 # > # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > # > To: michelbalea-at-gmail.com # > # > CC: fsj-at-digest.net # > # > Subject: Re: fsj: technical question... have an idea... # > # > # > # > batteries not needed... the engine will be running... one battery # > # > could be used if desired... but what I envision is something used # > # > rarely... mainly to get moving on slick roads during our rare snow # events... # > # > or if you're off on a forest service road and get into some muck... # > # > # > # > seriously, unless you're out wheeling how often does one really need # 4x4? # > # > # > # > even on most trails you can run the majority of the trail in 2wd... :) # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # > On Tue, 7 Jun 2011, Michel Balea wrote: # > # > # > # > # Possible, but you need to invest in battery.... we moved the 66 last # weekend # > # > # with a electric golf cart... only a few feet, to be on the downhill # side, # > # > # but it worked.... # > # > # # > # > # Michel # > # > # # > # > # On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:43 PM, john wrote: # > # > # # > # > # > I've got an idea... actually several, but will try to stick to one # right # > # > # > now... # > # > # > # > # > # > I want to attach and electric (DC) motor to an axle, preferrably # the front # > # > # > axle. # > # > # > Thinking of making a low speed 4x4 setup using the electric motor # to drive # > # > # > the # > # > # > front axle to get unstuck and started on slippery surfaces... the # top speed # > # > # > would be limited to the motor's capabilities with just the axle # gearing. # > # > # > # > # > # > Question I have is what motor would have enough power, in # combination with # > # > # > an engine driving the rear axle, or by itself, to move around # 4,000lbs # > # > # > through say # > # > # > 3.73 gears driving 235/75r15 (~29") tires up to 5 or maybe 10 # mph. # > # > # > # > # > # > Would the motor be damaged if it were to spin up to freeway speeds # by the # > # > # > axle? # > # > # > # > # > # > How hard would it be to great regenerative braking and charging # with the # > # > # > same motor? # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > so the question is, or more precisely, the questions # are:... # > # > # > # > # > # > what electric motor might work? # > # > # > does it need a clutch setup? # > # > # > what speed could it be used as a generator/brake? # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > I'm thinking that some kind of clutch / release mechanism would be # needed # > # > # > to disengage # > # > # > the motor from the axle once the speed increased... that could # also be used # > # > # > to provide # > # > # > additional braking, but if the speed is too great that might be a # > # > # > problem... # > # > # > # > # > # > mounting the motor to the front driveshaft would be done by # brackets off # > # > # > the live axle # > # > # > housing... # > # > # > # > # > # > think american iron... live axles... lots of room underneath... # then think # > # > # > of the # > # > # > drivetrain being removed and replaced with something out of a # Mid-80's # > # > # > Mercedes Diesel # > # > # > complete with automatic transmission... # > # > # > # > # > # > the ultimate WVO burning hybrid 4x4... # > # > # > # > # > # > the other option of course is to use that $650 adapter kit... they # are # > # > # > working on an # > # > # > automatic transmission version... # > # > # > # > # > # > so, I'm kind of looking for a nice clean TJ with an automatic, AC # and a # > # > # > hard top... # > # > # > # > # > # > I think I'm going to sell my extra SD33T... or trade it for a # Mercdes # > # > # > OM617... # > # > # > # > # > # > My '83 J10 stepside is getting an SD33T/TF727(RV) and NP208, with # 3.54 # > # > # > gears, 235s. # > # > # > # > # > # > But, I want to build a nice TJ as our 2nd vehicle... has to be # an # > # > # > automatic and has # > # > # > to have a/c and a hardtop... I'm sure my wife will prefer driving # a TJ vs. # > # > # > a Rav4. :) # > # > # > # > # > # > john # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > # > ----- # > # > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > -o|||||o- # > # > # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold # > # > # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 # > # > # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM # http://fotomeister.us # > # > # > # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > # > # > # > # > # # > # # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:19:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: nitrogen in tires On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Doug Thorndike wrote: # Is Nitrogen really exempt from Boyle's Law? What a gas! Ha ha! # # BUT IT SAYS RIGHT HERE ON THE WEB>>>>>> # # to the person speaking of nitrogen in tires.......It is not necessarily # meant to increase gas mileage at all, but just keep consistent pressure in # your tires. Nitrogen is not temperature sensitive like regular air. If you # have ever noticed that heat expands air and cooler temps decrease air. # Nitrogen stays the same, that is why they have always used nitrogen for # Airplane tires. # air consists of 78% nitrogen already... so you're mostly there... ;) it's not that nitrogen is exempt from the laws of physics, but is dry, inert and doesn't support combustion... neither is it an oxidizer so it doesn't eat the rubber... they use it on planes so the chance of fire is less... they use it on race cars so the pressure is consistent as the tires heat/cool... not because of nitrogen itself, but because normal atmosphere may contain around 5% water vapor... and water expands and contracts... also, that 21% of oxygen in air is a finer molecule and can leak through the rubber... while it's oxydizing it... :) if you can get it for free, not a bad idea... if you have to pay, don't play. here's some links for your reading pleasure: http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair-questions/4302788 http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen and here's some cool pictures of a volcano: http://www.emol.com/especiales/2011/fotoshd/erupcion-volcan/ ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:33:19 -0400 From: Christopher Wilson Subject: Re: xj: nitrogen in tires We have to believe everything on the interwebz, don't we? That law must be more important than Boyle's.... On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 4:19 PM, john wrote: > On Wed, 8 Jun 2011, Doug Thorndike wrote: > # Is Nitrogen really exempt from Boyle's Law? What a gas! Ha ha! > # > # BUT IT SAYS RIGHT HERE ON THE WEB>>>>>> > # > # to the person speaking of nitrogen in tires.......It is not necessarily > # meant to increase gas mileage at all, but just keep consistent pressure > in > # your tires. Nitrogen is not temperature sensitive like regular air. If > you > # have ever noticed that heat expands air and cooler temps decrease air. > # Nitrogen stays the same, that is why they have always used nitrogen for > # Airplane tires. > # > > air consists of 78% nitrogen already... so you're mostly there... ;) > > it's not that nitrogen is exempt from the laws of physics, but is dry, > inert > and doesn't support combustion... neither is it an oxidizer so it doesn't > eat the rubber... they use it on planes so the chance of fire is less... > > they use it on race cars so the pressure is consistent as the tires > heat/cool... > not because of nitrogen itself, but because normal atmosphere may contain > around 5% water vapor... and water expands and contracts... > > also, that 21% of oxygen in air is a finer molecule and can leak through > the rubber... while it's oxydizing it... :) > > if you can get it for free, not a bad idea... if you have to pay, don't > play. > > here's some links for your reading pleasure: > > http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/repair-questions/4302788 > > http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2694/is-it-better-to-fill-your-tires-with-nitrogen-instead-of-air > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen > > and here's some cool pictures of a volcano: > http://www.emol.com/especiales/2011/fotoshd/erupcion-volcan/ > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 18:05:41 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: condensed version of road trip just finished editing a "select" version of the road trip pictures of our trip back to the Chicago area from Seattle for a quick family reunion... got the picture count down to around 900 or so... :) http://fotomeister.us/2011/05-May-20-ROAD-TRIP-SEA-CHI/00_select.html if you're on a dial up, there is a 200 pixel version... also the 00_ALL.html version if you have insomnia... http://fotomeister.us/2011/05-May-20-ROAD-TRIP-SEA-CHI/ john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 15:16:14 +0000 From: john Subject: xj: =?Windows-1252?B?SmVlcCBHcmFuZCBDaGVyb2tlZSBGdWVsIFRhbmtzIFNwYXJrIGEgU2FmZXR5IFByb2JloC2gRGFpbHlGaW5hbmNl?= This is bogus, but was on the news. They didn't mention it's 5 star crash rating or compare to other models. The s10 blazer has one of the highest fatality rates in the states. http://m.aol.com/dailyfinance/default/articleStory.do?category=main&url=http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/08/24/jeep-grand-cherokee-fuel-tanks-spark-safety-probe/&page=1&icid=df_news_prv *** john at http://wagoneers.com *** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 14:25:04 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: cost of some ideas... as I've had time I've been clicking through some websites for various ideas about swaps... the DIY electric car forum link offered up by one of the list folks has been most helpful (thanx!) I think my idea of using an electric motor on the input to a live axle on a CJ/WJ/XJ/SJ/TJ/YJ is still viable... would allow the transplanting of a Diesel engine and it's native transmission without an xfr case... HOWEVER, while this eliminates the need for a transfer case, driveshaft and adapaters... it neglected to consider the cost of just the electric motor!!! Yikes: http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2198 the least expensive motor listed is over a grand!!! Most adapters to mate various engines to transmissions or tranmissions to xfr cases run around $500. I wonder what hydraulic motors/pumps/accumulators might run... (waiting for a link... ;) Building your own Diesel Jeep can be fun and entertaining, but not easy, trivial or necessarily affordable. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3287 *************************