From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Dec 11 11:46:00 2011 From: xj-digest To: xj-digest-at-digest.net Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:46:18 +0000 Subject: xj-digest V1 #3338 xj-digest Sunday, December 11 2011 Volume 01 : Number 3338 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Fleet update. Re: xj: Fleet update. Re: xj: Fleet update. Re: xj: Fleet update. Re: xj: Fleet update. xj: Re: Fleet update. xj: Re: Fleet update. xj: a random automotive quiz Re: xj: 97 rear hatch XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 01:12:32 +0000 From: john Subject: xj: Fleet update. Some general questions. 1st question: what is 70 NM in ft lbs? Most of the rear suspension links on my 87 300D called that out. Need to retighten everything after driving it for a while. 2nd question: any tips on getting the back hatch of an 97 jeep cherokee country rear hatch open? And no it's not frozen, it's not that cold here and it hasn't worked since summertime. :) 3rd question: anyone know what the oil pump differences are on a Nissan SD33T and the SD33? Swapping pans between and 80 scout and an 86 cj-10a so my 83 j10 will have the right pan to clear the axle. 4th question: is there an easy way to find a windshield leak? My (other) 83 j10 leaks a little on the passenger side. I'm leary of going to a glass shop because they will try to seal it with silicon, when it might just be a bad gasket. The fsj windshields come out with a zip lock type gasket. If I can find the leak and it's not too bad just put enough silicon on to stop the leak without making it impossible to get the windshield out later. Got the tdi jetta back from having the AT rebuilt. Need to fix a few things they messed up but thankfully nothing serious. The rebuild seems fine. The amsoil suggestion was good. Their shop help didn't put the pieces back properly so I'll be futzing around with grille and hood alignment later. They were going to charge me for some external sensors that had been damaged because some one had poked through the insulation. We agreed it was the original franchise that was closed by corporate and I agreed to fix/replace the messed up body and shield parts so they covered everything under warranty and didn't charge me for the external parts or anything else. I was facing about 600 worth of stuff not covered by the warranty that wasn't the fault of this shop. I'm glad it's over, prayers for a peaceful resolution were answered. Now praying for wisdom on keeping it. So far so good, been driving it all over today. We'll see. I found a couple Diesel 4x4s and now might be a good time to step away from this car. My wife has lost confidence in it, but I think we're switching and she'll drive the 1987 Mercedes 300D. That's funny. She trusts a 26 year old Mercedes Diesel with 241,000 miles on it MORE than a 10 year old VW with only 116,000 miles. Low mileage cars make me nervous. Yeah, I know that sounds strange. But the high mileage cars that were in good shape have almost always been more reliable and less hassle than the lower miled rigs. This is especially true with WJs and the mid to late 90's mercedes. Which makes me wonder if I shouldn't consider that 212,ooo mile jetta wagon. :) I'm still toying with the idea of a Diesel tj/wj/xj/yj - but really just need curtis to put my j10 back together. John __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 19:25:39 -0600 From: Tom Moulder Subject: Re: xj: Fleet update. 1. http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/newton-meters-to-foot-pounds-conversion.html 2. There is probably a way to get the piece off the inside without damaging it. Maybe get some kind of release spray with a tube to squirt inside - I know someone addressed it before on another XJ site, but you tend to ignore advice unless you actually need it 3. not a clue 4. I guess have someone spray with a high spray hose with someone inside. I know they check leaks for homes with a smoke generator to see where it escapes. I don't know where you would get one, but I'm sure you have a hose and nozzle. On 12/10/2011 7:12 PM, john wrote: > Some general questions. > > 1st question: what is 70 NM in ft lbs? Most of the rear suspension links on my 87 300D called that out. Need to retighten everything after driving it for a while. > > 2nd question: any tips on getting the back hatch of an 97 jeep cherokee country rear hatch open? And no it's not frozen, it's not that cold here and it hasn't worked since summertime. :) > > 3rd question: anyone know what the oil pump differences are on a Nissan SD33T and the SD33? Swapping pans between and 80 scout and an 86 cj-10a so my 83 j10 will have the right pan to clear the axle. > > 4th question: is there an easy way to find a windshield leak? My (other) 83 j10 leaks a little on the passenger side. I'm leary of going to a glass shop because they will try to seal it with silicon, when it might just be a bad gasket. The fsj windshields come out with a zip lock type gasket. If I can find the leak and it's not too bad just put enough silicon on to stop the leak without making it impossible to get the windshield out later. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 02:20:47 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: xj: Fleet update. I tried to take the panel off from inside, wouldn't come. Are the metal tailgate 97 and up latched only at the lower center or also at the sides? If someone could take a picture of the inside of a newer xj I could see what's going on and crack this like a safe. In the army I had safe-cracking training where we were trained to drill a hole in a particular place, that would then allow us to activate one of the mechanisms inside and get the door open. They even taught us how to patch the hole so we could reuse the safe. Well, it wasn't a safe exactly, just some nsacryptostuffinabox, long story,only declassed inthe last few years, very cool stuff. :) But the principle is the same, if I know where the linkage runs I could drill a small hole and use a tool to release the mechanism. My daughter's xj is in very nice condition so I need to do this with the least amount of collateral damage. No rust, not frozen, we generally don't have either of those problems. So it's either a stretched linkage or a broken plastic connector. Know what you mean about not having a need to know. My son in law found some info but it didn't sound plausible. :) 2. There is probably a way to get the piece off the inside without damaging it. Maybe get some kind of release spray with a tube to squirt inside - I know someone addressed it before on another XJ site, but you tend to ignore advice unless you actually need it __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:40:00 -0600 From: Tom Moulder Subject: Re: xj: Fleet update. Actually, mine is an 85 - it's harder to keep it on rather than remove it. On 12/10/2011 8:20 PM, john wrote: > I tried to take the panel off from inside, wouldn't come. Are the metal tailgate 97 and up latched only at the lower center or also at the sides? > > If someone could take a picture of the inside of a newer xj I could see what's going on and crack this like a safe. In the army I had safe-cracking training where we were trained to drill a hole in a particular place, that would then allow us to activate one of the mechanisms inside and get the door open. They even taught us how to patch the hole so we could reuse the safe. Well, it wasn't a safe exactly, just some nsacryptostuffinabox, long story,only declassed inthe last few years, very cool stuff. :) But the principle is the same, if I know where the linkage runs I could drill a small hole and use a tool to release the mechanism. > > My daughter's xj is in very nice condition so I need to do this with the least amount of collateral damage. > > No rust, not frozen, we generally don't have either of those problems. So it's either a stretched linkage or a broken plastic connector. > > Know what you mean about not having a need to know. My son in law found some info but it didn't sound plausible. :) > > > > 2. There is probably a way to get the piece off the inside without > damaging it. Maybe get some kind of release spray with a tube to squirt > inside - I know someone addressed it before on another XJ site, but you > tend to ignore advice unless you actually need it > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > - -- Tom Moulder Houston, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 02:51:31 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: xj: Fleet update. I remember that problem well and used drywall screws to hold it on. This new one is different. Terry down under has one he's going to look at for me. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Tom Moulder Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:40:00 To: Reply-To: xj-at-digest.netSubject: Re: xj: Fleet update. Actually, mine is an 85 - it's harder to keep it on rather than remove it. On 12/10/2011 8:20 PM, john wrote: > I tried to take the panel off from inside, wouldn't come. Are the metal tailgate 97 and up latched only at the lower center or also at the sides? > > If someone could take a picture of the inside of a newer xj I could see what's going on and crack this like a safe. In the army I had safe-cracking training where we were trained to drill a hole in a particular place, that would then allow us to activate one of the mechanisms inside and get the door open. They even taught us how to patch the hole so we could reuse the safe. Well, it wasn't a safe exactly, just some nsacryptostuffinabox, long story,only declassed inthe last few years, very cool stuff. :) But the principle is the same, if I know where the linkage runs I could drill a small hole and use a tool to release the mechanism. > > My daughter's xj is in very nice condition so I need to do this with the least amount of collateral damage. > > No rust, not frozen, we generally don't have either of those problems. So it's either a stretched linkage or a broken plastic connector. > > Know what you mean about not having a need to know. My son in law found some info but it didn't sound plausible. :) > > > > 2. There is probably a way to get the piece off the inside without > damaging it. Maybe get some kind of release spray with a tube to squirt > inside - I know someone addressed it before on another XJ site, but you > tend to ignore advice unless you actually need it > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > - -- Tom Moulder Houston, TX ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 02:55:00 +0000 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Fleet update. Terry What do those two nuts hold? Are we taking the bumper off or ??? Any pictures? __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Terry Halmshaw Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:46:31 To: Subject: Re: Fleet update. OK: 1. Under the car behind the bumper you will see two 9/16 or 14mm nuts, remove these, this will give you enough clearance two remove the door card. 2. Once door card is removed open tailgate manually and replace mechanism with new one, three torx bolts are all that hold them in place. EZPZ. Terry. At 01:26 PM 11/12/2011, you wrote: >Thanx >------Original Message------ >From: Terryau >To: J >Subject: Re: Fleet update. >Sent: Dec 10, 2011 18:23 > >Oh I just noticed it's a 97, I have one let me look ok mate?. > >On 11/12/2011 1:21:54 PM, john (fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com) wrote: > > Can't get the door panel off from inside. Need to do some >selective cutting to get to the mechanism. Newer steel hatch type. >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > From: Terry Halmshaw > > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:33:57 +1100 > > To: > > Subject: Re: Fleet update. > > > > At 12:12 PM 11/12/2011, you wrote: > > Some general questions. 1st question: what is 70 NM in ft lbs? > > Roughly 52 pounds 51.6 to be exact :). > > > > 2nd question: any tips on getting the back hatch of an 97 jeep >cherokee country rear hatch open? > > Remove the door card from inside and trigger the lock and then >replace the lock. > > > > 3rd question: anyone know what the oil pump differences are on a >Nissan SD33T and the SD33? > > Pressure is the same, my old MQ Patrol ran 45 cold, 30, hot, 10 at >idle with 30W oil. > > > > 4th question: is there an easy way to find a windshield leak? > > Ask Becky to hose the windscreen down while you sit inside and >determine the leaking area, > > DO NOT use silicone, use proper windscreen sealant, it does not go >off remains pliable and > > does not ruin the rubber like silicone does. > > > > Hope this helps mate. > > > > Terry. > > > >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 03:02:25 +0000 From: john Subject: xj: Re: Fleet update. It's not me that's going to be doing it, if I can help it. :). Sounds like they should buy the new latch and have it on hand. Also sounds like an easy way of breaking in. ;) __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Terry Halmshaw Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:59:20 To: Subject: Re: Fleet update. No need to remove bumper mate, they hold the "fixed latch", once undone these provide enough movement to pull the gate open to remove the door card, if you persevere you may actually be able to pull the gate open just by removing these two nuts. They are very easy to remove mate, just a 9/16 socket a shortish extension bar and a ratchet. Nothing you can't handle mate I assure you. Terry. At 01:55 PM 11/12/2011, you wrote: >TerryWhat do those two nuts hold? Are we taking the bumper off or >???Any pictures? >__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ >From: Terry Halmshaw >Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 13:46:31 +1100 >To: >Subject: Re: Fleet update. >OK: > >1. Under the car behind the bumper you will see two 9/16 or 14mm nuts, >remove these, this will give you enough clearance two remove the door >card. > >2. Once door card is removed open tailgate manually and replace mechanism >with new one, three torx bolts are all that hold them in place. EZPZ. > >Terry. > >At 01:26 PM 11/12/2011, you wrote: >>Thanx >>------Original Message------ >>From: Terryau >>To: J >>Subject: Re: Fleet update. >>Sent: Dec 10, 2011 18:23 >> >>Oh I just noticed it's a 97, I have one let me look ok mate?. >> >>On 11/12/2011 1:21:54 PM, john (fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com) wrote: >> > Can't get the door panel off from inside. Need to do some >>selective cutting to get to the mechanism. Newer steel hatch type. >>__john_at_ http://wagoneers.com__ >> > From: Terry Halmshaw >> > Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 12:33:57 +1100 >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: Fleet update. >> > >> > At 12:12 PM 11/12/2011, you wrote: >> > Some general questions. 1st question: what is 70 NM in ft lbs? >> > Roughly 52 pounds 51.6 to be exact :). >> > >> > 2nd question: any tips on getting the back hatch of an 97 jeep >>cherokee country rear hatch open? >> > Remove the door card from inside and trigger the lock and then >>replace the lock. >> > >> > 3rd question: anyone know what the oil pump differences are on a >>Nissan SD33T and the SD33? >> > Pressure is the same, my old MQ Patrol ran 45 cold, 30, hot, 10 at >>idle with 30W oil. >> > >> > 4th question: is there an easy way to find a windshield leak? >> > Ask Becky to hose the windscreen down while you sit inside and >>determine the leaking area, >> > DO NOT use silicone, use proper windscreen sealant, it does not go >>off remains pliable and >> > does not ruin the rubber like silicone does. >> > >> > Hope this helps mate. >> > >> > Terry. >> >> >> >>__john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2011 22:23:25 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: a random automotive quiz a friend of mine has a shop and he sent me this little story/quiz... I nailed it at first glance, but after owning over 125 cars and wrenching for 4 decades I'd better... let's see how you do... your answer could determine how much money you might spend on fixing a somewhat common problem... while it relates to a Jeep it could apply to almost any other vehicle... ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ from a friend with a shop... Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 14:24:25 +1100 I have a customers Jeep arriving on Tuesday, it has been to four mechanics in "SOME CITY" who were unable to fix it, I will give you its symptoms as described to me and I bet you can tell me what the issue is, I already have the part here ready to repair the car. 1. Initial startup is fine, car runs perfectly. 2. After between 10 and 30 minutes the car becomes sluggish, the more you press the go pedal the slower it goes. 3. Stop the car leave it for ten minutes and the story starts over. 4. Temp is in the high range, pushing to 95 to 100 on the gauge. No error codes come up....nothing, yet the o2 sensor was replaced, sender unit to the thermo fan was replaced, thermostat replaced, clutch fan replaced, none of this work was done by me obviously, I know what the issue is, the poor owner is out of pocket over a grand my charges will be less then $200.00 inc labor. The guy was at the last mechanics place being told it required a 02 sensor when the guy said that's just been replaced, another customer that was there gave him my number and said "this guy breeds Jeeps, knows them inside out and will tell over the phone what the issue is". Which I have done, gotta love a good reputation. Who this customer is I have no idea, but I have had calls from as far away as "SOME CITY EVEN FARTHER AWAY" in regards to Jeep repairs and sending up parts. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 19:45:48 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: xj: 97 rear hatch Thanx __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Zascar42-at-aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 08:33:38 To: Subject: Re: xj: 97 rear hatch >From a google search: PROBLEM: Jeep Cherokee Rear Hatch latch is stuck closed or open. Unable to open or close rear hatch normally. RESOLUTION: There are several methods you can try to open a stuck rear hatch: Method One: Press inwards with the palm of your hand just above the handle at the same time you push in or pull up on the latch mechanism. Sometimes a slap of your hand in the same location works better. This method may help free a sticky latch mechanism. Only a temporary fix...go to Method Three. Method Two: Note this will not work on latches with the plastic lift handle. Look underneath the Jeep between the bumper and the gas tank. You are now looking at the bottom side of the cargo floor. You should see the two metric 15mm nuts that secure the striker bracket to the floor of the Cherokee. This bracket holds the hatch closed. A tow hitch bracket or gas tank skid plate may block your access to the striker nuts. If you can see the nuts, use a metric socket and socket wrench to remove the nuts securing the striker plate. The hatch should now swing open. You can now reinstall the striker to the floor and retighten the two nuts. Method Three: For hatches with the plastic handle this problem may occur because of extreme heat. Spray the handle with cold water to cool the area and the hatch will then open. Method Four: If rear hatch is stuck closed, sit in the cargo area and remove the plastic trim cover on the inside of the rear hatch to access and adjust/repair the latch mechanism. If hatch is unable to be closed remove the plastic trim with hatch raised. The plastic cover on the inside of the rear hatch is attached with four Phillips #2 screws along the inside top and 4 more along the sides (2 each side) and approximately 10 snap fasteners spaced around the inside. The 4 screws at inside top are accessible from inside the vehicle, the 2 screws on either side are not accessible when the hatch is closed. To remove the plastic cover: (1) Remove the 4 screws at the top. (2) Along the lower edge of the rear window, using your fingers, gently pry the edge of the plastic cover away until the 4 snap fasteners pop free along the lower edge of the rear window. You will have to pull the plastic about 3 inches from the window before the fasteners release. (3) This will allow you to pry the plastic cover open far enough use a flashlight and examine the latch mechanism. (4) Reach in and down and manually pull the latch lift bar up to release the latch and open the hatch. Once the hatch is open you can remove the side screws, pry the rest of the snap fasteners free and completely remove of the plastic trim cover on many Cherokees. 1997 thru 2001 Cherokees have an inner hatch grab handle that requires a T30 Torx socket wrench bit to remove. Pry the little rectangular cover off of each end of the grab handle. Use the T30 Torx bit to remove two screws that secure the handle. Once the handle is removed the tailgate plastic trim panel can be fully removed. Now that you have the hatch open, the plastic trim removed, and can access the working parts, lightly lubricate the hatch handle mechanism and the locking mechanism with some Lithium grease. Inspect both mechanisms for misadjusted or loose connections. Rod connecting latch and handle can be adjusted at this time. Mark where the threaded end of the rod connects to the metal arm moved by the handle. Unclip the retaining clip that attaches the end of the threaded rod to the mechanism. Use a needle nose pliers to pull it out. Now reattach such that the rod has less play, and clip the retaining clip back in place. Apply a small amount of spray lubricant on the external parts of the latch. Finally, test the tailgate for proper function and reinstall the plastic trim panel and any other parts that were removed. PROBLEM: Rear hatch won't close because lock mechanism is stuck (sprung) in closed position while hatch is open preventing the closure of the hatch. RESOLUTION: This problem usually happens when hatch is slammed shut. The hatch won't close because part of the lock mechanism is stuck in closed position while hatch is actually open. There is an easy fix that doesn't require forcing any of the components of the lock. While holding the rear hatch handle in open position (lift handle up) - use screw driver to lightly push the lock mechanism down (not up). It will reset easily - feather touch. If you don't hold rear hatch handle open (up) - it will not reset. Don't force anything because it may be a different problem that I have described. ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3338 *************************