From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 14 00:44:00 2012 From: xj-digest To: xj-digest-at-digest.net Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:43:44 +0000 Subject: xj-digest V1 #3361 xj-digest Tuesday, February 14 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3361 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? xj: high-zinc, high-phosphorus formulation motor oil RE: xj: Manual Tranni Lube Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube xj: Re: fsj: 4.0 for J-10 and floors xj: snohomish monster garage project questions... xj: more diesel finds xj: Re: more diesel finds XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:03:58 -0800 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? i think you're right to be questioning that advice. were i to use anything other than what's specified in the FSM, i'd use Red Lin MTL again; it's made every trans i've put it in shift better than new. cheers! e On 13/Feb/12 09:20, Mark "Loeb" Soldan wrote: > I was advised by the gear shop who put in my Trac-Lok to run 20-W50 > motor oil in my AX-15 manual transmission instead of the 80W-90 GL-5 > that is specified in the FSM. He said that it'll shift easier and run > cooler. What do you guys think? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:07:24 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? WRONG. you're dealing with a completely different lubrication requirement. engine oil is designed for shear and gear lube designed for pressure, simply put for comparison. If you want to make it easier to shift and run cooler, don't mess around with incorrectly spec'd products but follow this link http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 And get the lightest weight gear lube that meets the GL-5 (or whatever) spec the AX-15 calls out and you'll get WAY better results than using motor oil... very bad advice... also, if it's a transfer case, you put ATF in an aluminum case xfr case, gear lube in cast iron with gears - unless of course it's spec'd specically different. If you want to run cooler, have things work smoother get Amsoil synthetics, you might be able to find some other synthetic that will work, maybe as well, but I know AMSOIL has been doing this for decades... but ANY synthetic will generally be superior to mineral/dino oil. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 13 Feb 2012, Mark "Loeb" Soldan wrote: # I was advised by the gear shop who put in my Trac-Lok to run 20-W50 motor oil # in my AX-15 manual transmission instead of the 80W-90 GL-5 that is specified # in the FSM. He said that it'll shift easier and run cooler. What do you # guys think? # # ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:03:58 -0800 From: ernest breakfield Subject: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? i think you're right to be questioning that advice. were i to use anything other than what's specified in the FSM, i'd use Red Lin MTL again; it's made every trans i've put it in shift better than new. cheers! e On 13/Feb/12 09:20, Mark "Loeb" Soldan wrote: > I was advised by the gear shop who put in my Trac-Lok to run 20-W50 > motor oil in my AX-15 manual transmission instead of the 80W-90 GL-5 > that is specified in the FSM. He said that it'll shift easier and run > cooler. What do you guys think? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:27:55 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: high-zinc, high-phosphorus formulation motor oil for those of us with older engines... a shameless plug... ;) of course you can buy it elsewhere, sharing the info below on this amsoil product that solves a problem... Trying to remember why they want to pull zinc, is it messing with cats? (not the furry kind, the catalytic type... ;) john On Mon, 13 Feb 2012, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # John, do you know Amsoil's approach to dealing with the conflict of reducing zinc/moly and flat tappet camshafts? # Have they published something on this? # # - Landon I knew I saw this somewhere... follow this link, and if you make a purchase you might even provide lunch money for an old webmaster... ;) http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 once on the page either search for Z-ROD or drill down to the motor oils... thank you if you actually buy via the link... 1. Z-ROD 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil Click here to purchase AMSOIL Z-RODb^D" Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage. 2. Z-ROD 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil Click here to purchase AMSOIL Z-RODb^D" Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. A high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage. AMSOIL Z-RODb^D" Synthetic Motor Oil is specially engineered for classic and high-performance vehicles. It features a high-zinc formulation to prevent wear on flat-tappet camshafts and other critical engine components, along with a proprietary blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors for added protection during long-term storage. Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is designed to perform on the street and protect during storage. AMSOIL, the leader in automotive synthetic lubrication, produced the worldb^Ys first API-qualified synthetic motor oil in 1972. Trust the extensive experience of AMSOIL, the First in SyntheticsB., to do the best job protecting your engine. Protects Flat-Tappet Cams The lifters and cam lobes on flat-tappet camshafts common to classic and high performance vehicles slide rapidly against one another, producing high friction and heat. The friction between the two components can eventually wear down the cam and affect valve operation, ultimately resulting in lost engine power and reduced efficiency. In addition, these areas are splash-lubricated rather than pressure lubricated like other areas of the engine, which adds extra strain on anti-wear additives like the zinc and phosphorus in zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP). AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is formulated with high levels of ZDDP to protect flat-tappet cams, lifters, rockers and other areas susceptible to wear. Its high-zinc, high-phosphorus formulation provides the extra wear protection these critical splash-lubricated components require. Provides Long-Term Protection from Rust & Corrosion AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is formulated with a unique blend of rust and corrosion inhibitors to ensure maximum protection during long-term storage. To prove its effectiveness, AMSOIL submitted Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil to the Standard Test Method for Rust Protection in the Humidity Cabinet (ASTM D-1748). This test evaluates the rust-preventative properties of oil under high-humidity conditions, similar to those faced by a covered hot rod in a damp garage. The metal coupon treated with AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil showed no signs of oxidation after 192 hours, while the coupon treated with a leading competitorb^Ys product failed the test after 24 hours. APPLICATIONS AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil is recommended for older or modified engines requiring either 10W-30 or 20W-50 motor oil. Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil meets API SL and earlier specifications, allowing for increased levels of anti-wear additives. ZDDP levels in Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil exceed the limits of API SM and newer specifications. COMPATIBILITY AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oils are compatible with conventional and other synthetic motor oils. Mixing AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oils with other oils, however, will shorten the oilb^Ys life expectancy and reduce the performance benefits. Aftermarket oil additives are not recommended for use with AMSOIL Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oils. SERVICE LIFE Because engines in classic cars, hot rods and other performance vehicles are generally modified, a universal oil drain interval recommendation for these applications cannot be given. Responsibility for determining the drain interval duration rests with the owner. As a general service guideline, the maximum drain interval for Z-ROD Synthetic Motor Oil should not exceed 5,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. In heavily modified engines (e.g. forced induction, nitrous) the maximum drain interval should not exceed 3,000 miles or one year, whichever comes first. HEALTH & SAFETY This product is not expected to cause health concerns when used for the intended application and according to the recommendations in the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). An MSDS is available via the Internet at www.amsoil.com or upon request at (715) 392-7101. Keep Out of Reach of Children. Donb^Yt pollute. Return used oil to collection centers. For warranty information, visit www.amsoil.com/warranty.aspx. TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES AMSOIL Z-ROD 20W-50 Synthetic Motor Oil (ZRF) Viscosity -at- 100B0C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 19.1 Viscosity -at- 40B0C, cSt (ASTM D-445) 132.5 Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270) 163 Flash Point B0C (B0F) (COC) (ASTM D-92) 236 (457) Fire Point B0C (B0F) (COC) (ASTM D-92) 252 (486) Pour Point B0C (B0F) (ASTM D-97) - -39 (-38) NOACK Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 4.7% High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity -at- 150B0C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1), cP (ASTM D5481) 5.1 Four-Ball Wear -at- 40 kgf, 75B:C, 1200 rpm, 1 hr, scar diameter, mm (ASTM D-4172) 0.36 Total Base Number (ASTM D-2896) 9.0 ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 10:28:36 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: xj: Manual Tranni Lube Redline makes MTL or MTF for them. Amsoil makes a good product as well (check their website) From: "Mark \"Loeb\" Soldan" Subject: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? I was advised by the gear shop who put in my Trac-Lok to run 20-W50 motor oil in my AX-15 manual transmission instead of the 80W-90 GL-5 that is specified in the FSM. He said that it'll shift easier and run cooler. What do you guys think? - - -- Mark "Loeb" Soldan Mobile: 510-551-5087 mailto:loebotomy-at-gmail.com 1977 C-27 #3178 ~ ~ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ 1996 XJ "Never doubt that a few committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 18:54:05 +0000 From: john Subject: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube Any approved synthetic will benefit. Redline is good stuff as well. - ------Original Message------ From: Jim Blair-email Sender: owner-xj-at-digest.net To: xj ReplyTo: xj Subject: RE: xj: Manual Tranni Lube Sent: Feb 13, 2012 10:28 Redline makes MTL or MTF for them. Amsoil makes a good product as well (check their website) From: "Mark \"Loeb\" Soldan" Subject: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? I was advised by the gear shop who put in my Trac-Lok to run 20-W50 motor oil in my AX-15 manual transmission instead of the 80W-90 GL-5 that is specified in the FSM. He said that it'll shift easier and run cooler. What do you guys think? - - -- Mark "Loeb" Soldan Mobile: 510-551-5087 mailto:loebotomy-at-gmail.com 1977 C-27 #3178 ~ ~ ~ (\_~ ~ ~ 1996 XJ "Never doubt that a few committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 21:32:34 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: fsj: 4.0 for J-10 and floors not sure about all this, but I'd go with the j10 clutch setup, my XJ clutch setups were not very good... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Mon, 13 Feb 2012, Landon Tesar wrote: # Thanks, Mark.. # # Ok, starting to collect a few parts, such as a pilot bushing from Novak. # # Which clutch should I get? For the J10 or for the Cherokee? I would think # for the J10, to match the bellhousing....and the Cherokee was hydraulic # clutch. # # - Landon # //////// # On Feb 11, 2012, at 2:02 PM, Mark Wallace wrote: # # > Just Empty Every Pocket eh? # > # > The 4.0 is a really durable engine. It seems that they go 200,000 miles and # > then lose the rear main seal, but typically still have good compression and # > good oil pressure. For a driver I will take fuel injection over a # > carburetor # > any day of the week. For $500 the worst you could do is have a livable # > engine # > that is not some 70's smog motor. # > # > Other swaps that might be worth considering would include a 1990's Chrysler # > Magnum (318 or 360) I really like the 318 in my Dakota and my friend Rob is # > fixing to put a Magnum 360 in his rock crawler Ramcharger for the the fuel # > injection. Those motors are also pretty tough. # > # > Been sick for the last few weeks so I haven't touched my Wag's floors in a # > while. Was hoping to feel better today, but I guess that wasn't the plan. # > # > Mark ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 13 Feb 2012 22:07:56 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: snohomish monster garage project questions... my son is giving thought to another project... or a WJ grand cherokee... or a VW Karman Ghia... or... (guess he's decided he's not going to finish his ME degree... :( anyway, he has an '85 300D - he's giving thought to installing a 289 V8 with a C4... and has offered me the 3.0L I-5 Turbo Diesel... pretty much for the acquistion costs of a 289... this has a ripple effect... in that I'm thinking I might try to put the OM617 in my white J10, or find a wrangler, another XJ (hmmm, maybe my daughter's) or a clean WJ limited... I'll want an automatic transmission and 4wd... So, the questions for the collective are: 1) is there a kit to drop a ford V8 in a 123 series Mercedes? 2) could the Koch Engineering kit for the TF904 to mate the OM617 in a YJ with an AT be modified to mate to any of the other jeep autos, like the 42re/45rfe in a WJ, or an AW4 in an XJ or ...shudder... the tf727 in my J10? 3) trying to decide what axle ratio would work the best for the OM617, need to look up the torque/hp specs again... a 99-04 WJ would likely have 3.73 gears (likely the most ideal) a wrangler would have 4.10s or 3.55s an XJ would have anything from 3.07-4.10 - most likely 3.54s. my J10 has 2.72s, trying to remedy that problem now with a set of axles... got any? (as far as axles/comfort - an XJ or WJ seems to make more sense...) 4) I'm also considering putting a 6.2L Diesel into my '83 J10 long bed and need to see if there is an adapter for the TF727 to mate to the Detroit Diesel block... or else then I have to mess with an adapter for the th700r4 for the xfr case... or go with a GM xfr case and get axles with a passenger side drop. - ------------------------------------------------ At this point, the one scenario that is most attractive is using that 3.0L TD in a nice clean WJ that lost it's 4.7, with my daugher's 97 xj country a close second. Any ideas on how hard it would be to mate the OM617 to a 45RFE? the challenge with a WJ is all the computers, but that's manageable... if I have info on the sensors and purposes of them I should be able to engineer reasonable solutions... get the popcorn out... and share, since I'm mostly going to be watching this event... I'll pull the OM617 and set it in the back of my shop, happy with my '83 J10 longbed, my 02 Jetta TDI wagon and my '87 300D benz... oh wait, my daughter's '97 xj country will be going up for sale... super clean... that OM617 would fit nicely in that rig, no real computers to deal with, at least not like on the WJ... better visibility... and if I have bucks tied up in the engine and her XJ I won't be sitting around watching my son, I'll be eager to get my project together as well... likely providing y'all a summer of entertainment... and you watch, as soon as I yard the engine out of a WJ or that XJ curtis will call and tell me superdawg is done... :) guess I'll email Koch Engineering and see where they're at with their new Automatic setup for the Wrangler (using a 904 I think...). On another thought - how many VW TDI folks out there? I'm giving thought to starting a TDI list... I may try my hand at setting up majordomo, or see if Richard will set it up on digest.net. I wish I could sacrifice my TDI fto power the XJ. :) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:20:38 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: more diesel finds Luv diesel and 5 speed (wonder what GM bell pattern they use?) http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/for/2849973675.html ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:43:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: more diesel finds they used isuzu stuff... I had an 81 luv... no chevy, all jap ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, Jim Blair wrote: # # Luv diesel and 5 speed (wonder what GM bell pattern they use?) # http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/for/2849973675.html # # # # # # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3361 *************************