From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Feb 14 11:41:00 2012 From: xj-digest To: xj-digest-at-digest.net Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 19:40:52 +0000 Subject: xj-digest V1 #3362 xj-digest Tuesday, February 14 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3362 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: Re: fsj: Re: more diesel finds Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging xj: RE: more diesel finds was Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging - Question on cold Diesels xj: RE: fsj: RE: more diesel finds xj: Wiring Harnesses for FSJs and other jeeps Re: was Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging - Question on cold Diesels XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:46:26 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: fsj: Re: more diesel finds I ended up redoing the heads twice on that engine too... gave up on the isuzu drive train and built up a buick v6/th350 for it... very fast... then pulled that and put the v6 231/3.8 into my '67 wagoneer... john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, john wrote: # they used isuzu stuff... I had an 81 luv... no chevy, all japanese # # # # ----- # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com # Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold # http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS # http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # # # On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, Jim Blair wrote: # # # # # Luv diesel and 5 speed (wonder what GM bell pattern they use?) # # http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/for/2849973675.html # # # # # # # # # # # # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 00:54:15 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? There are a few that use engine oil, like the BA 10/5 spec is 30W from the factory, but Jeep decided 80/90 would be better (Not! Mine was happy for almost 200,000 miles with 30W) From: john Subject: Re: xj: Manual Tranni Lube? WRONG. you're dealing with a completely different lubrication requirement. engine oil is designed for shear and gear lube designed for pressure, simply put for comparison. If you want to make it easier to shift and run cooler, don't mess around with incorrectly spec'd products but follow this link http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 And get the lightest weight gear lube that meets the GL-5 (or whatever) spec the AX-15 calls out and you'll get WAY better results than using motor oil... very bad advice... also, if it's a transfer case, you put ATF in an aluminum case xfr case, gear lube in cast iron with gears - unless of course it's spec'd specically different. If you want to run cooler, have things work smoother get Amsoil synthetics, you might be able to find some other synthetic that will work, maybe as well, but I know AMSOIL has been doing this for decades... but ANY synthetic will generally be superior to mineral/dino oil. john Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 09:15:27 -0600 From: David Bierschank Subject: Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging Thanks for all the help guys on the surging issue with the wives Jeep. The day after I posted this the Jeep left my wife stuck on the side of the road. I went to help her and got it started and drove it home. John had posted the way to pull the codes, but it was not setting any codes. I had and 87 XJ, that had similar symptoms, and it turned out to be a TPS that I replace myself after taking it to two mechanics that could not find the problem. I actually sent John a write up on the repair and how to adjust the TPS that is on his XJ Tech section of his website. So I had a feeling the TPS was the most likely suspect. So anyway I got a TPS yesterday from Napa and installed it last night. Idle is perfect and throttle response is also improved. The nice thing about the newer WJ TPS is that it is not adjustable, so it makes it even easier to do the install. Two screws, one wire connection, and your done. Took me longer to get a light set up to where I could see what I was doing than to do the job. Thanks again for the list help. I knew there were other things this could be, but you guys mostly confirmed what I thought it would be, the TPS. - -- David Bierschank okc67mustang-at-gmail.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 10:26:21 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging Thanks from me, too. My wife's 2004 GC Overland was doing the surging idle bit; driving me crazy and when I read the TPS post the other day the "DUH!" light bulb went off. 33 bucks and a half hour later, it's fixed! - -Don - -----Original Message----- From: David Bierschank Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 10:15 AM To: Digest XJ ; WJ-Grand-at-yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging Thanks for all the help guys on the surging issue with the wives Jeep. The day after I posted this the Jeep left my wife stuck on the side of the road. I went to help her and got it started and drove it home. John had posted the way to pull the codes, but it was not setting any codes. I had and 87 XJ, that had similar symptoms, and it turned out to be a TPS that I replace myself after taking it to two mechanics that could not find the problem. I actually sent John a write up on the repair and how to adjust the TPS that is on his XJ Tech section of his website. So I had a feeling the TPS was the most likely suspect. So anyway I got a TPS yesterday from Napa and installed it last night. Idle is perfect and throttle response is also improved. The nice thing about the newer WJ TPS is that it is not adjustable, so it makes it even easier to do the install. Two screws, one wire connection, and your done. Took me longer to get a light set up to where I could see what I was doing than to do the job. Thanks again for the list help. I knew there were other things this could be, but you guys mostly confirmed what I thought it would be, the TPS. - -- David Bierschank okc67mustang-at-gmail.com Don Hansen "The Appliance FIXXA" www.HansenAppliance.com 781-843-1950 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:11:39 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: RE: more diesel finds I've considered a couple of those, they are good, but they have a rubber band... not a big deal, lots of Diesels do... excellent mpg too. ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: # Friend of mine in High School had an Isuzu sedan diesel with the 5 spd. It was a good car. # # - L # -----Original Message----- # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim Blair # Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:21 AM # To: john; fsj-digest-at-digest.net; xj # Subject: fsj: more diesel finds # # Luv diesel and 5 speed (wonder what GM bell pattern they use?) http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/for/2849973675.html # # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:19:17 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: was Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging - Question on cold Diesels I've got an issue with two of my Diesels... same issue with both... posting with the off chance that someone might know what to look for. 1) both start up ok, but have a rough idle and whitish smoke 2) glow plugs work, both get decent economy/power, etc. 3) once warmed up they're both smooth 4) both have had the injectors replaced by PO's. 5) both have new glow plugs (I know the tdi does, maybe on the 300d) I'm trying to see if there is some cold start circuit or system that might be defective. In searching I've found a couple clues, like leaking injectors or a fast idle circuit not working... I've looked at the schematics for both, haven't found anything yet... one is my 2002 Jetta TDI (ALH) with Automatic 212k - getting great mileage, runs fine, but when started it really idles rough and puts out whitish smoke - takes longer than I'd like for it to smooth out... like up the drive or across the parking lot no engine codes - new injectors and glow plugs the other is my 1987 Mercedes 300D 3.0L TD (OM603) with 240k - getting decent mileage, funs like a top, but when started it starts really rough, whitish smoke, but after a few seconds smooths right out. any thoughts??? thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, David Bierschank wrote: # Thanks for all the help guys on the surging issue with the wives Jeep. # # The day after I posted this the Jeep left my wife stuck on the side of the # road. I went to help her and got it started and drove it home. # # John had posted the way to pull the codes, but it was not setting any # codes. # # I had and 87 XJ, that had similar symptoms, and it turned out to be a TPS # that I replace myself after taking it to two mechanics that could not find # the problem. I actually sent John a write up on the repair and how to # adjust the TPS that is on his XJ Tech section of his website. So I had a # feeling the TPS was the most likely suspect. # # So anyway I got a TPS yesterday from Napa and installed it last night. # Idle is perfect and throttle response is also improved. The nice thing # about the newer WJ TPS is that it is not adjustable, so it makes it even # easier to do the install. Two screws, one wire connection, and your done. # Took me longer to get a light set up to where I could see what I was doing # than to do the job. # # Thanks again for the list help. I knew there were other things this could # be, but you guys mostly confirmed what I thought it would be, the TPS. # # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:37:15 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: RE: more diesel finds I'm looking at the 2.8L turbo but I'm waiting to find out what the auto trans options are. 2.8L Isuzu diesel info The 4JB1 is a 2.8 L (2,771 cc) 93 mm bore, 102 mm stroke direct injection diesel engine. It was used in the Isuzu Bighorn (Trooper), Mu (Rodeo), Wizard (LWB Rodeo), Rodeo Pickup and Holden Jackaroo sold in most world markets aside from North America until the early 1990s. Stock power was 87 PS (64 kW) in the 1989 Isuzu Trooper.[1] Industrial versions of this motor were also sold in Isuzu light trucks. The 4JB1-T is a turbocharged version of the 4JB1. It was intercooled in some applications. Power levels ranged between 100 and 115 PS (74 and 85 kW) depending on specifications.[9] The other option is the less powerful 2.2L diesel (non-turbo) The C223 is a 2.2L OHV 8V engine with 58 hp and 93 ft7lb of torque used in the 1981^V1982 Chevrolet LUV and the 1981 through 1987 Isuzu P'up. It was also used in the 1979^V1981 Isuzu 117 Coupi XD/XDL, one of the first cars with sporting pretensions to be fitted with a diesel engine. In the 117, claimed max power (JIS) increased to 73 PS (54 kW) at 4,300 rpm.[4] Written laws are like spiders' webs, and will like them only Entangle and hold the poor and weak, while the rich and powerful will easily break through them ANACHARSIS Scythian philosopher (fl. 600 BC) > Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 08:11:39 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: r16884-at-freescale.com > CC: carnuck-at-hotmail.com; fsj-digest-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: RE: more diesel finds > > I've considered a couple of those, they are good, but they have a rubber band... > not a big deal, lots of Diesels do... excellent mpg too. > > > > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, Tesar Landon-R16884 wrote: > > # Friend of mine in High School had an Isuzu sedan diesel with the 5 spd. It was a good car. > # > # - L > # -----Original Message----- > # From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim Blair > # Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:21 AM > # To: john; fsj-digest-at-digest.net; xj > # Subject: fsj: more diesel finds > # > # Luv diesel and 5 speed (wonder what GM bell pattern they use?) http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/for/2849973675.html > # > # > # ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 11:09:27 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Wiring Harnesses for FSJs and other jeeps only YOU can prevent roadside attractions and "car-b-q's"... all this started on the FSJ list... a couple of us have been having some wiring issues... check out this mess: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Wiring/WIRING-1983/ALL.html when I bought this 83 J10 it had a horrible time starting, ran like a top once started... finally when cranking the snot out of it one day I let go of the switch at just the right time and it caught... aha! I've been here before... with a Diesel conversion, someone didn't provide power to the fuel solenoid when cranking... I WONDER... I wonder if the coil is getting power through a ballast resistor or the solenoid... looked at the wiring, there dangled a snipped end of a wire... looked at the coil, it too had a dangling participle... wire... introduced the two and it lit right off... sheesh... wiring in Jeeps is always interesting, even from the factory... :) During our snow storm I was having issues with my alternator, draining my battery over night, low voltalge at idle... had it tested... picked up a reman... but before I could install it, it started charging full on, all the time.... huh? that's when I found the fusible link was in very bad shape and the alternator plug humble... Anyway, I fixed my alternator problem with the bypass and fuses, but now it's cutting out... likely because I didn't install the loop on the back of the amp gauge to finish the bypass and there is still damaged wire on the other side of that fusible link that I replaced... which means I need to open up the entire harness and check and replace wire... SO, I'm very tempted to buy the underhood kit from Zach's (zmjeeps) but I've already got the wire and a significant amount of the wiring redone under the hood at this point, and my J10 under the dash is pretty simple, most of the wire will be ok... wish I'd thought to look at BJSoffroad and ZMJeeps before I started all of this. :) considering the cost of wire, these aren't bad deals... either on ezwiring, bjsoffroad or zachs... I went down to the local battery/electrical shop and bought a couple rolls of wire, a couple 100A fuse blocks, some connectors and a few other odds and ends and dropped $120... of course I'll be able to build several of my own harnesses with what I bought, but it takes TIME... and these kits make it very simple... tempting... WIRING OPTIONS: $170 for a coded bundle http://www.ezwiring.com/wiring_harness.html with fuse box and switches isn't too bad at all, and a LOT less expensive than the Painless kits, which are pretty much like this one, and they sell for $500. but noticed that BJs has that 12 wire kit for the same price... SUPPORT BJS, he's done a good job of gathering hard to find stuff for our Jeeps! http://www.bjsoffroad.com/prod-1167.htm BUT WAIT, ZACH has the CORRECT underhood kit for $175.00 http://stores.zmjeeps.com/Detail.bok?no=128666 Wiring Harness Engine 78-85 FSJ Manufacturer: N/A SKU: 39378 UPC: 393782 Price: $175.00 Retail: $175.00 I HIGHLY RECOMMEND GETTING THIS KIT FROM ZACH for anyone with an older jeep who isn't into wiring and electronics, pop that stuff into some of that protective plastic tubing, tie it up nice to clear exhaust and sharp objects and you'll save yourself a LOT of grief, especially considering how hacked up most of the older Jeeps become, especially SJs and CJs (cj-10s), but not so much WJ or XJs... zach has the dash kit for the SJ for $450 http://stores.zmjeeps.com/Detail.bok?no=128653 Wiring Harness Dash '79-'85 FSJ Manufacturer: N/A SKU: 38218 UPC: 382199 Price: $450.00 Retail: $450.00 (sharing with the jeep lists...) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, Michel Balea wrote: # > > as for wiring harness, at $150ish # > > http://www.ezwiring.com/wiring_harness.html, ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 14:40:23 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: Re: was Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging - Question on cold Diesels Try buying fuel someplace else? That's my total diesel expertise! - -Don - -----Original Message----- From: john Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 11:19 AM To: undisclosed-recipients: Subject: was Re: xj: Re: [WJ-Grand] Rpm surging - Question on cold Diesels I've got an issue with two of my Diesels... same issue with both... posting with the off chance that someone might know what to look for. 1) both start up ok, but have a rough idle and whitish smoke 2) glow plugs work, both get decent economy/power, etc. 3) once warmed up they're both smooth 4) both have had the injectors replaced by PO's. 5) both have new glow plugs (I know the tdi does, maybe on the 300d) I'm trying to see if there is some cold start circuit or system that might be defective. In searching I've found a couple clues, like leaking injectors or a fast idle circuit not working... I've looked at the schematics for both, haven't found anything yet... one is my 2002 Jetta TDI (ALH) with Automatic 212k - getting great mileage, runs fine, but when started it really idles rough and puts out whitish smoke - takes longer than I'd like for it to smooth out... like up the drive or across the parking lot no engine codes - new injectors and glow plugs the other is my 1987 Mercedes 300D 3.0L TD (OM603) with 240k - getting decent mileage, funs like a top, but when started it starts really rough, whitish smoke, but after a few seconds smooths right out. any thoughts??? thanx, john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Tue, 14 Feb 2012, David Bierschank wrote: # Thanks for all the help guys on the surging issue with the wives Jeep. # # The day after I posted this the Jeep left my wife stuck on the side of the # road. I went to help her and got it started and drove it home. # # John had posted the way to pull the codes, but it was not setting any # codes. # # I had and 87 XJ, that had similar symptoms, and it turned out to be a TPS # that I replace myself after taking it to two mechanics that could not find # the problem. I actually sent John a write up on the repair and how to # adjust the TPS that is on his XJ Tech section of his website. So I had a # feeling the TPS was the most likely suspect. # # So anyway I got a TPS yesterday from Napa and installed it last night. # Idle is perfect and throttle response is also improved. The nice thing # about the newer WJ TPS is that it is not adjustable, so it makes it even # easier to do the install. Two screws, one wire connection, and your done. # Took me longer to get a light set up to where I could see what I was doing # than to do the job. # # Thanks again for the list help. I knew there were other things this could # be, but you guys mostly confirmed what I thought it would be, the TPS. # # Don Hansen "The Appliance FIXXA" www.HansenAppliance.com 781-843-1950 ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3362 *************************