From owner-xj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Feb 17 19:24:00 2012 From: xj-digest To: xj-digest-at-digest.net Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2012 03:24:01 +0000 Subject: xj-digest V1 #3364 xj-digest Saturday, February 18 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3364 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: xj: d44 front axle question RE: xj: d44 front axle question Re: xj: d44 front axle question xj: Amphibious Truck (fwd) RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question Re: xj: Re: more diesel finds xj: RE: fsj: d44 front axle question xj: axle options - swapping adventures... xj: Re: Isuzu swap XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 19:06:43 -0800 (PST) From: Jeremiah Westpfahl Subject: RE: xj: d44 front axle question I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't think going Chevy 6.2 while keeping the stock axles would make you happier if you're looking for more grunt. My Blazer w/ 3.08s & 31" tires is a bit of a gutless wonder. Yeah it'll do 70mph+, but getting it there takes more time than the people behind me are pleased with. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:01:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: xj: d44 front axle question I found that 4.10s with 31's and a 700r4 were a good setup, so were 3.73s. I put a 6.2 in my '91 GW, had 3.54s originally, or 3.31s, don't recall, but I put 4.10s in and mileage jumped up, as did power... my GMC Jimmys came with 3.73s and 31s and performed well. john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Jeremiah Westpfahl wrote: # I'm not an expert, but I wouldn't think going Chevy 6.2 while keeping the # stock axles would make you happier if you're looking for more grunt. # My Blazer w/ 3.08s & 31" tires is a bit of a gutless wonder. Yeah it'll do # 70mph+, but getting it there takes more time than the people behind me are # pleased with. # ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:13:02 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: xj: d44 front axle question update: turns out my son wants my 2.72's for his '85 GW. His 85 GW has 3.54 gears. d44 f /m20 r he's installed a few lockers and has been personally trained (verbally, when he was 13 years old) by Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion on how to do a setup... of course neither of us remembers exactly how that's supposed to go... but we can rent the tools from Randy's, get the parts needed and deadline both of our Jeeps in my carport until rescued by any local friends that actually know how to do it correctly. not sure when we'll get around to it... engine mods are being discussed as well... in the meantime, I need to get mine running... ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, john wrote: # summary: # Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72 # M20 r 2.72 # Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks. # Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600. # Net about $600 # Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. # The other option is to switch trans/xfr case. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:15:13 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Amphibious Truck (fwd) http://autos.yahoo.com/news/the-ultimate-amphibious-trucks.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 23:34:29 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question Too bad about the width differences. > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:13:02 -0800 > From: john-at-wagoneers.com > To: xj-at-digest.net > CC: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com; vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net > Subject: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question > > update: > turns out my son wants my 2.72's for his '85 GW. His 85 GW has 3.54 gears. d44 f /m20 r > > he's installed a few lockers and has been personally trained (verbally, when he was 13 years > old) by Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion on how to do a setup... of course > neither of us remembers exactly how that's supposed to go... but we can rent > the tools from Randy's, get the parts needed and deadline both of our > Jeeps in my carport until rescued by any local friends that actually know how > to do it correctly. > > not sure when we'll get around to it... engine mods are being discussed as well... > > in the meantime, I need to get mine running... ;) > > john > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, john wrote: > # summary: > # Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72 > # M20 r 2.72 > # Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks. > # Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600. > # Net about $600 > # Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. # The other option is to switch trans/xfr case. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:17:02 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: RE: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question yeah... there's a difference between WT Cheros and J10s as well, right? john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Wed, 15 Feb 2012, Jim Blair wrote: # Too bad about the width differences. # # > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 22:13:02 -0800 # > From: john-at-wagoneers.com # > To: xj-at-digest.net # > CC: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com; # vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net # > Subject: fsj: Re: xj: d44 front axle question # > # > update: # > turns out my son wants my 2.72's for his '85 GW. His 85 GW has 3.54 gears. # d44 f /m20 r # > # > he's installed a few lockers and has been personally trained (verbally, when # he was 13 years # > old) by Randy of Randy's Ring and Pinion on how to do a setup... of course # > neither of us remembers exactly how that's supposed to go... but we can # rent # > the tools from Randy's, get the parts needed and deadline both of our # > Jeeps in my carport until rescued by any local friends that actually know # how # > to do it correctly. # > # > not sure when we'll get around to it... engine mods are being discussed as # well... # > # > in the meantime, I need to get mine running... ;) # > # > john # > ----- # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com # > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold # > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS # > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us # > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ # > On Thu, 16 Feb 2012, john wrote: # > # summary: # > # Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72 # > # M20 r 2.72 # > # Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks. # > # Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in # my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600. # > # Net about $600 # > # Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. # The other option is to # switch trans/xfr case. # ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:33:54 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: Re: xj: Re: more diesel finds The Jatco ones are one piece. Later ones went to AW4 (with interchangeable bell), which is shared with many Asian vehicles (except Subaru, Mazda and Datsun gas engines. The LD diesel series got AW3 but the SD got Mopar 727s and maybe Jatco?) I had an AW4 from a Toyota 4 runner (4 cyl turbo) and it was identical externally at the front. all the way to the tcase seam. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 Subject: xj: Re: more diesel finds It's been a long time since I had one, but IIRC the bellhousing was part of the trans case on those & wasn't even the same as Isuzu gas of the time. At least that was what I was told by the guy who bought mine just for the trans - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 14 Feb 2012 17:21:09 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: Isuzu 2.8 turbo diesel in a ZJ http://www.canev.com/Jeep.html Tripped over this one. It looks sort of familiar? Maybe it wasn't finished the last time I looked a few years ago? This one has an AX-15, but I discovered the Trooper came with AW4 and the 2.2L diesel! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isuzu_Trooper (see the specs on the right) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 00:34:51 -0800 From: Jim Blair Subject: xj: RE: fsj: d44 front axle question I have a Dodge NP208 for only $150. You'd need the rear yoke from your current one to make it work. Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10 > Subject: fsj: d44 front axle question > To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net; jeeps_r_us-at-bigpond.com; vwdoc1-at-gmail.com; d-p-ashby-at-comcast.net > From: fullsizejeeps-at-gmail.com > Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 01:51:39 +0000 > > summary: > Current: ds drop d44 f 2.72 > M20 r 2.72 > > Found: d44 f/r 3.54 J10 pass side drop from 77. For 300 bucks. > > Plan: swap rear axles, pull r&p front ps drop and have it installed in my front axle - labor and bearing kit around $600. > > Can sell my axles for about 200-300. > > 300+600-300... > > Will give me 3.54's, d44's fore and aft, > Net about $600 > > Not sure it's worth the pain and suffering. > > The other option is to switch trans/xfr case. > > John > > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: "CJSIXER70" > Sender: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 14:33:57 > To: > Reply-To: CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com > Subject: [CJ-10List] Re: d44 front axle question > > Yes it is possible to swap over those gears but I would question why you would go to the trouble to buy an axle just to pull the gears out of. Those axles bring 100-200 where I live. You can use the same carrier that is already in your current Dana 44 as the range is 2:72-3:73 and then 3:92-5:38. So you would litterally be buying that other Dana 44 for a used ring and pinion. That doesn't make sense. > > Full retail through 4wd.com for a 3:54 ring and pinion is about 350 bucks but that comes with all of the bearings, seals, shims, ring gear bolts and gaskets you would need EXCEPT for the carrier bearings themselves. Those are always separate. If you were going to pull the ring and pinion from the donor axle you would still need to buy all of that stuff which costs over 100 dollars. So subtract the price of a ring and pinion install kit and the price of the axle you are getting from the cost of the brand new ring and pinion kit and what are you saving? Even if you are getting the axle for free you could sell it to help off set the cost of the new gears. > > Incidentally the price I came up with of 350 bucks was doing no price shoping what so ever. I just went to 4wd.com and looked it up. When I had to replace the axle shafts in my Dana 44 the SET10 timken bearings for the shafts were on back order. The price to buy these bearngs was CHEAPER through Autozone than it was for me to buy them at 4wd Hardware and I get employee pricing(5% Over Cost) because I am a moderator on JeepsUnlimited.com. My point is that if you do some bargain hunting you could probably knock some coin off of that 350 dollar number. > > --- In CJ-10List-at-yahoogroups.com, john wrote: > > > > I've found a set of 3.54 axles for my '83 J10... problem is they're from a '77... > > > > currently my 83 J10 has a D44F with 2.72, rear is a M20... > > even with a healthy 360 V8 2.72s are ludicrous... not even going to do the math for > > the top speed on that one... but getting up my driveway with anything more than > > a shadow in the back requires low range... freeway economy is decent, but in town, > > where this truck lives... is horrifying... I used my Jetta wagon to haul concrete > > bags the other day, well, in part because of the electrical issue... :) > > > > > > > > PROBLEM IS THIS: > > > > the axles are from a J10, but an older model with FRONT DROP IS ON THE PASSENGER SIDE... > > > > > > QUESTION IS: > > > > Could those 3.54 gears from the passenger side drop J10 D44 axle be moved into my > > driver's side drop J10 D44 axle? > > > > > > I'm thinking it'll cost around $300 to have them setup if it's possible... then > > all I need to do is swap the rear axles... and everything will work better... > > could even resell my axles to someone with a J10 that has a plan to drive cross country... > > > > > > > > If not, then my options include swapping in a TH400/D20 from an older SJ, > > or better, just getting a 6.2L Diesel out of a Blazer/Suburban and going that route... > > > > > > simple... keep it simple... > > > > > > > > can the gears be swapped like that? > > > > > > I'd have about $600 or so into making my J10 a much, much faster and more economical > > in town vehicle... I might even see 12 mpg in town!!! :) > > > > thanx, > > john > > > > > > > > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com > > Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold > > http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS > > http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us > To View Pictures stored at the webiste go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CJ-10List and click "photos"Yahoo! Groups Links > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CJ-10List/ > > <*> Your email settings: > Individual Email | Traditional > > <*> To change settings online go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CJ-10List/join > (Yahoo! ID required) > > <*> To change settings via email: > CJ-10List-digest-at-yahoogroups.com > CJ-10List-fullfeatured-at-yahoogroups.com > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > CJ-10List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2012 12:22:51 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: axle options - swapping adventures... it's always interesting trying to make the bits and pieces you have work with other bits and pieces... I have a jeep with 2.72 gears, found a slightly older jeep with 3.54 gears. problem is the axle drop is on the passenger side instead of the driver's side. ok... options are available to remedy, just takes money. 1) buy used axles, swap rear axles - no problem, spend $600 to swap the ring and pinion from the new used to the old used... 2) swap the engine and transmission/xfr case to make use of the new axles. :) 3) spend about $2000 to buy new R&P for existing axles (on a $1500 truck... ;) 4) swap R&P with my son's jeep... about $300 in parts and one of those priceless experiences of learning a new skill... and now there is option 5... which I'm sharing as a reality check. 5) a friend has a Dodge NP208 that has a passenger side drop, 21 spline, same input depth, same fixed yoke spline count, uncertain of linkage... expect the driveshafts to work - came off of a TF727. excpected total costs $450 less sale of orignal axles, likely net $150. So, reality check: 1983 J10 - D44 front, AMC 20 rear, 360 v8/tf727/np208(j) axles from a '77 J10 - D44 front, d44 rear - unknown drivetrain (irrelevant) xfr case from Dodge ramcharger tf727/np208(d) ... If this isn't all an unbolt, disconnect, remove, drop in, bolt, connect, bleed brakes and go possibility I'm going to leave well enough alone. So far the only unknown about the dodge np208 is the linkage setup... I've also remembered that I have an AW4 with a custom, expensive adapter to mate to jeep transfer cases... so I could drop an XJ 4.0 into my J10, or if I can find an adapater to mate an OM617 to an AW4, go with a 3.0L TD benz setup... the question is... will it all actually work and go together as expected... after years of this kind of insanity, I'm guessing it won't... and that's why I've asked for the reality check... there's always a 'gotcha'. :) I'm sure there are others out there that want to build the ideal vehicle, there's good and bad with every vehicle... if we can take the best from several and build one good one, we'll be happy.... right? ;) john ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2012 19:23:31 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re: Isuzu swap wow. http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/photo_1.html ----- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -o|||||o- fahrvergnugen y'all - please reply to: john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington - where Jeeps and VWs don't rust, they mold http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 TRSTGZS http://JohnMeister.com HTTP://WAGONEERS.COM http://fotomeister.us - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On Fri, 17 Feb 2012, Jim Blair wrote: # http://www.isuzudieselswapper.com/ # # # Sent from my iPhone # ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3364 *************************