From owner-xj-digest@digest.net Thu Nov 1 09:07:00 2012 From: xj-digest To: xj-digest@digest.net Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2012 16:07:22 +0000 Subject: xj-digest V1 #3437 xj-digest Thursday, November 1 2012 Volume 01 : Number 3437 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: xj: access to the forest service roads in WA... Re: xj: access to the forest service roads in WA... xj: only in a Jeep? Re: xj: only in a Jeep? XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:42:47 -0700 From: Travis Barnard Subject: Re: xj: access to the forest service roads in WA... I hate to be the nay-sayer..... No I really do. This is one of those moments where I truly wish humanity actually lived up to the idea of enlightened self interest but my experience has left me extremely jaded and cynical. While on one of my recent expeditions photographing the old ruins of the 1920s concrete plant up in Concrete WA I had the great pleasure of driving into a garbage dumpsite. It was in Dec of last year and besides being some amazing views and getting downright covered in clay I got the joy of coming face to face with humanities darker side. I rounded a bend in the not blocked off and accessible road which eventually leads to a north cascade park, much to my surprise instead I was greeted with a smoldering pile of garbage which somone had left burning completely unattended. Not only did it make my nostrils curl it also make every fiber of my body ache from both the fire hazard and the pollution aspect as well as detriment to my scenic enjoyment. Now mind you that during this time and trip we ran into the security guard for a construction project of some kind at least twice on the road both in and out. So in short it is patrolled. Given both the state of the economy as well as certain gang and drug problems in our country, the whole idea of opening up lands to public access makes me cringe. It makes me cringe from two very deep and very emotional parts of my psyche. One: I despise seeing nature defiled in such a manner. Two: I despise the idea of some omnicient govt force tasked with keeping control of people who should know better. How do we managed the need to protect with the access to untamed beauty and thus un-monitored lands? Even if there were some RFID tag system for access there wouldn't be any way of knowing if a given entrant dumped garbage since there would thousands of people coming and going. That idea would also lead to increased need of patrolling and monitoring which requires greater budget and oversight. I do not like big govt redtape or oversight as a general rule, yet how can it be avoided when people don't act reasonably? On the other hand I definitely agree that given the pine beetle problem where trees (which I often love more than 99% of all shaved monkeys) are dying and become a fire hazard, well in this case selective harvesting of said trees is more beneficial than simply letting them burn. The thing that scares me in that idea is that it could set us on a dangerous path where state budgets dictate forest land exploitation over conservation. One only has to look at the current situation where WA state has decided that state parks must become fully self funded with no access to the general fund. This idea that parks become a self funded origanization will end with horrific consequences to lands which should be protected. I wish people were intelligent and thoughtful creatures but my experience in this world has shown me otherwise. This makes me a very sad gear head who would love unfettered and responsible access to state managed lands.... On Oct 30, 2012 4:58 PM, "john" wrote: > We used to have access to state lands on logging roads that allowed us to > drive up and enjoy > spectacular views... most of them were accessible with regular cars... > > but then they started gating them off... locking us out.... > > When I heard Clint speak a few weeks ago I asked him about this, and his > plan > is to open things back > up to us again... and of course to manage the resources of the state > instead > of letting them burn up > in wild fires... he spoke of selective cutting and managed cuts to prevent > erosion and help protected > species... > > > > http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefea&id=bcc97651ed&e > =8655abe1e0 > > very cool... check out the picture! :) you'll never guess who took it. > (and it is used with my permission... ;) > > been meaning to share with those in the state about Clint's intent to open > up > state lands again to us... > meaning we'll be able to enjoy much of our scenic beauty again! > > > I talked to him about opening up the state forest service roads, like the > 5000 > road that allowed us > access up to Pilchuck on logging roads and afforded incredible views of the > area.... > > wanted to let other gearheads in the area know that he plans to grant > access > again... > > john > > ----- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college > education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTB&TRSTGZS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: john@wagoneers.com > To: J > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:48:04 +0000 > Subject: Fw: Clint Didier says... > > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clint Didier for Public Lands > Sender: "Clint Didier for Public Lands" > > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:41:34 > To: john > Reply-To: Clint Didier for Public Lands > Subject: Clint Didier says... > > We're almost there. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > View this email in your browser > ( > http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefea&id=bcc97651ed& > e=8655abe1e0) > In just a few short days this election will be over, and the real work can > begin. > > Restoring our forest health, restoring your right to access state land, and > restoring the morale of DNR employees will not be easy tasks, but > Clint can do it! > > Clint canb t do it alone, though, > he could use your help. > First we have to get him into office. > Clintb s opponent has commercials that mislead the public about his > successes > and the current forest health. > It doesnb t take a PHD to see the forests are being mismanaged. > 310,000 acres of burned land attest to that. > Clintb s opponent has been misleading the press about his leadership skills > and the support of his employees, too. > He couldnb t get his own union to endorse him! > Clint is being outspent 5 to 1 though. > We must get the facts to as many voters as possible, > while there is still time. > > Can you help Clint out? > Please consider contributing $5 (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) > , $10 > (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) , or $20 > (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) to his campaign. > Thatb s less than the cost of the Discovery Pass > that his opponent lobbied to obtain. > As you contribute more (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) , more > people > get Clint's message. > > Make no mistake, Clintb s message is resonating across party lines in every > city & county. But we're late in the fourth quarter, and we need a > touchdown, > rather than a field goal, to ensure we have a victory in November. > > For more information on the campaign, please visit www.ClintDidier.org. > To make a contribution, please visit > > http://ClintDidier.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefe > a&id=3fc50b5ad1&e=8655abe1e0 > > Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Chuck Skirko > Campaign Manager, > Clint Didier for Lands Commissioner > 509-570-8146 > Chuck.Skirko@hotmail.com > > http://ClintDidier.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefe > a&id=1e17faacae&e=8655abe1e0 > > PS > Donb t forget to VOTE > Clint Didier, > Commissioner of Public Lands. > > Clint was honored to be endorsed by "The Hutch" > Dr. Ken Hutcherson > Clint Didier on a farm in Whatcom County > > ============================================================ > Copyright B) 2012 Clint Didier for Commissioner of Public Lands, All rights > reserved. > Thank you for your attention and dedication. > You are receiving this email because you opted in or signed up at a > campaign > event. > > Our mailing address is: > Clint Didier for Commissioner of Public Lands > P.O Box 157 > Eltopia, WA 99330 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 15:01:20 +0000 From: john@wagoneers.com Subject: Re: xj: access to the forest service roads in WA... So we punish everyone in class because one kid did something wrong. The 4x4 clubs volunteer to keep the area clear, the low lifes only dump stuff like that because the dump fees were increased, so they don't go very far to make the mess. When they put the gates up they'd dump the stuff right there. While I don't like the mess either, it's in a limited area and illegal. Don't punish everyone because of a few. __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ - -----Original Message----- From: Travis Barnard Sender: owner-xj@digest.net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 23:42:47 To: Reply-To: xj@digest.netSubject: Re: xj: access to the forest service roads in WA... I hate to be the nay-sayer..... No I really do. This is one of those moments where I truly wish humanity actually lived up to the idea of enlightened self interest but my experience has left me extremely jaded and cynical. While on one of my recent expeditions photographing the old ruins of the 1920s concrete plant up in Concrete WA I had the great pleasure of driving into a garbage dumpsite. It was in Dec of last year and besides being some amazing views and getting downright covered in clay I got the joy of coming face to face with humanities darker side. I rounded a bend in the not blocked off and accessible road which eventually leads to a north cascade park, much to my surprise instead I was greeted with a smoldering pile of garbage which somone had left burning completely unattended. Not only did it make my nostrils curl it also make every fiber of my body ache from both the fire hazard and the pollution aspect as well as detriment to my scenic enjoyment. Now mind you that during this time and trip we ran into the security guard for a construction project of some kind at least twice on the road both in and out. So in short it is patrolled. Given both the state of the economy as well as certain gang and drug problems in our country, the whole idea of opening up lands to public access makes me cringe. It makes me cringe from two very deep and very emotional parts of my psyche. One: I despise seeing nature defiled in such a manner. Two: I despise the idea of some omnicient govt force tasked with keeping control of people who should know better. How do we managed the need to protect with the access to untamed beauty and thus un-monitored lands? Even if there were some RFID tag system for access there wouldn't be any way of knowing if a given entrant dumped garbage since there would thousands of people coming and going. That idea would also lead to increased need of patrolling and monitoring which requires greater budget and oversight. I do not like big govt redtape or oversight as a general rule, yet how can it be avoided when people don't act reasonably? On the other hand I definitely agree that given the pine beetle problem where trees (which I often love more than 99% of all shaved monkeys) are dying and become a fire hazard, well in this case selective harvesting of said trees is more beneficial than simply letting them burn. The thing that scares me in that idea is that it could set us on a dangerous path where state budgets dictate forest land exploitation over conservation. One only has to look at the current situation where WA state has decided that state parks must become fully self funded with no access to the general fund. This idea that parks become a self funded origanization will end with horrific consequences to lands which should be protected. I wish people were intelligent and thoughtful creatures but my experience in this world has shown me otherwise. This makes me a very sad gear head who would love unfettered and responsible access to state managed lands.... On Oct 30, 2012 4:58 PM, "john" wrote: > We used to have access to state lands on logging roads that allowed us to > drive up and enjoy > spectacular views... most of them were accessible with regular cars... > > but then they started gating them off... locking us out.... > > When I heard Clint speak a few weeks ago I asked him about this, and his > plan > is to open things back > up to us again... and of course to manage the resources of the state > instead > of letting them burn up > in wild fires... he spoke of selective cutting and managed cuts to prevent > erosion and help protected > species... > > > > http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefea&id=bcc97651ed&e > =8655abe1e0 > > very cool... check out the picture! :) you'll never guess who took it. > (and it is used with my permission... ;) > > been meaning to share with those in the state about Clint's intent to open > up > state lands again to us... > meaning we'll be able to enjoy much of our scenic beauty again! > > > I talked to him about opening up the state forest service roads, like the > 5000 > road that allowed us > access up to Pilchuck on logging roads and afforded incredible views of the > area.... > > wanted to let other gearheads in the area know that he plans to grant > access > again... > > john > > ----- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they > mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college > education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTB&TRSTGZS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: john@wagoneers.com > To: J > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 21:48:04 +0000 > Subject: Fw: Clint Didier says... > > > __john_at_http://wagoneers.com__ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Clint Didier for Public Lands > Sender: "Clint Didier for Public Lands" > > Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2012 18:41:34 > To: john > Reply-To: Clint Didier for Public Lands > Subject: Clint Didier says... > > We're almost there. > ------------------------------------------------------------ > View this email in your browser > ( > http://us6.campaign-archive1.com/?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefea&id=bcc97651ed& > e=8655abe1e0) > In just a few short days this election will be over, and the real work can > begin. > > Restoring our forest health, restoring your right to access state land, and > restoring the morale of DNR employees will not be easy tasks, but > Clint can do it! > > Clint canb t do it alone, though, > he could use your help. > First we have to get him into office. > Clintb s opponent has commercials that mislead the public about his > successes > and the current forest health. > It doesnb t take a PHD to see the forests are being mismanaged. > 310,000 acres of burned land attest to that. > Clintb s opponent has been misleading the press about his leadership skills > and the support of his employees, too. > He couldnb t get his own union to endorse him! > Clint is being outspent 5 to 1 though. > We must get the facts to as many voters as possible, > while there is still time. > > Can you help Clint out? > Please consider contributing $5 (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) > , $10 > (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) , or $20 > (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) to his campaign. > Thatb s less than the cost of the Discovery Pass > that his opponent lobbied to obtain. > As you contribute more (http://www.clintdidier.org/donate.html) , more > people > get Clint's message. > > Make no mistake, Clintb s message is resonating across party lines in every > city & county. But we're late in the fourth quarter, and we need a > touchdown, > rather than a field goal, to ensure we have a victory in November. > > For more information on the campaign, please visit www.ClintDidier.org. > To make a contribution, please visit > > http://ClintDidier.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefe > a&id=3fc50b5ad1&e=8655abe1e0 > > Thank you for your time and consideration. > > Chuck Skirko > Campaign Manager, > Clint Didier for Lands Commissioner > 509-570-8146 > Chuck.Skirko@hotmail.com > > http://ClintDidier.us6.list-manage.com/track/click?u=0b40d802954c4b848ec8eefe > a&id=1e17faacae&e=8655abe1e0 > > PS > Donb t forget to VOTE > Clint Didier, > Commissioner of Public Lands. > > Clint was honored to be endorsed by "The Hutch" > Dr. Ken Hutcherson > Clint Didier on a farm in Whatcom County > > ============================================================ > Copyright B) 2012 Clint Didier for Commissioner of Public Lands, All rights > reserved. > Thank you for your attention and dedication. > You are receiving this email because you opted in or signed up at a > campaign > event. > > Our mailing address is: > Clint Didier for Commissioner of Public Lands > P.O Box 157 > Eltopia, WA 99330 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 08:59:23 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: xj: only in a Jeep? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20166317 ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTB&TRSTGZS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2012 12:07:07 -0400 From: Christopher Wilson Subject: Re: xj: only in a Jeep? Mine would have made that ;-) On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 11:59 AM, john wrote: > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20166317 > > > > ----- > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation > http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold > ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" > Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) RTB&TRSTGZS > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3437 *************************