From owner-xj-digest@digest.net Mon Jan 14 15:15:47 2013 From: xj-digest To: xj-digest@digest.net Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 23:10:18 +0000 Subject: xj-digest V1 #3456 xj-digest Monday, January 14 2013 Volume 01 : Number 3456 Forum for Discussion of XJ cherokees and wagoneers Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Re: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Re: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) xj: Re: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) xj: Re:Diesel Jeep 2014 XJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeep/xj/ Send submissions to xj-digest@digest.net Send administrative requests to xj-digest-request@digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to xj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:25:42 -0800 From: "Mark \"Loeb\" Soldan" Subject: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Freon and other refrigerants have a vapor density of 3 to 5 times that of air (oxygen and nitrogen) and are therefore not buoyant when in a closed system with air. But in the real world, the atmosphere and the stratosphere are not closed systems. One factor that exists in the real world is currents. Air currents raise particles heavier than air (such as dust from deserts and volcanoes) high into the atmosphere where they stay aloft for a very long time, traveling great distances. The notion that refrigerants cannot rise into our atmosphere or even stratosphere is a silly one. Here's some cool scientific data: A movie showing dust traveling west from Africa across the Atlantic Ocean. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast26jun_1/ This article from 1967 titled "Vertical distribution of dust in the stratosphere" quantified dust in the atmosphere by taking actual measurements (no faith needed) http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1967SCoA...11..345R/0000345.000.html Think about this. After Hawaii was created by volcanic action, all that was left behind was basalt... no life and not much that could sustain life. Over millions of years, enough soil was carried over there through the atmosphere that plant and animal life could take a foothold and flourish. If there is any nefarious motive behind mandating a move to different refrigerants (other than improving the health of the ecosystem that our grandchildren will inhabit), I would first look towards those who stand to make a profit before pointing fingers at so called eco-fascists. Back to R-1234yf, there is a much larger body of evidence supporting the notion that R-1234yf poses no increase in danger in automobiles, than the one report by Diamler. I'm sure that Diamlers finding will be taken seriously and will be further reviewed. I look forward to seeing their findings. http://www.acr-news.com/news/news.asp?id=3125&title=Latest+SAE+research+finds+no+problem+with+R1234yf - -- Mark "Loeb" Soldan Mobile: 510-551-5087 mailto:loebotomy@gmail.com "Never doubt that a few committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 20:59:44 +0000 From: "john" Subject: Re: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Dust, volcanoes and freon are three different items with different properties. We can't manage the 1st two, but can the last item via education and technology. My point is that we work daily with all kinds of harmful and hostile chemicals safely. Let's educate, not legislate. ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: "Mark \"Loeb\" Soldan" Sender: owner-xj@digest.net Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:25:42 To: Reply-To: xj@digest.netSubject: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Freon and other refrigerants have a vapor density of 3 to 5 times that of air (oxygen and nitrogen) and are therefore not buoyant when in a closed system with air. But in the real world, the atmosphere and the stratosphere are not closed systems. One factor that exists in the real world is currents. Air currents raise particles heavier than air (such as dust from deserts and volcanoes) high into the atmosphere where they stay aloft for a very long time, traveling great distances. The notion that refrigerants cannot rise into our atmosphere or even stratosphere is a silly one. Here's some cool scientific data: A movie showing dust traveling west from Africa across the Atlantic Ocean. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast26jun_1/ This article from 1967 titled "Vertical distribution of dust in the stratosphere" quantified dust in the atmosphere by taking actual measurements (no faith needed) http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1967SCoA...11..345R/0000345.000.html Think about this. After Hawaii was created by volcanic action, all that was left behind was basalt... no life and not much that could sustain life. Over millions of years, enough soil was carried over there through the atmosphere that plant and animal life could take a foothold and flourish. If there is any nefarious motive behind mandating a move to different refrigerants (other than improving the health of the ecosystem that our grandchildren will inhabit), I would first look towards those who stand to make a profit before pointing fingers at so called eco-fascists. Back to R-1234yf, there is a much larger body of evidence supporting the notion that R-1234yf poses no increase in danger in automobiles, than the one report by Diamler. I'm sure that Diamlers finding will be taken seriously and will be further reviewed. I look forward to seeing their findings. http://www.acr-news.com/news/news.asp?id=3125&title=Latest+SAE+research+finds+no+problem+with+R1234yf - -- Mark "Loeb" Soldan Mobile: 510-551-5087 mailto:loebotomy@gmail.com "Never doubt that a few committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2013 21:54:54 +0000 From: "john" Subject: Re: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Remember 3M's product used to make things waterproof and stainproof? It was so effective that it wouldn't break down. They pulled the product, which makes sense, some things need to be bio-degradeable. ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: "Mark \"Loeb\" Soldan" Sender: owner-xj@digest.net Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:25:42 To: Reply-To: xj@digest.netSubject: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Freon and other refrigerants have a vapor density of 3 to 5 times that of air (oxygen and nitrogen) and are therefore not buoyant when in a closed system with air. But in the real world, the atmosphere and the stratosphere are not closed systems. One factor that exists in the real world is currents. Air currents raise particles heavier than air (such as dust from deserts and volcanoes) high into the atmosphere where they stay aloft for a very long time, traveling great distances. The notion that refrigerants cannot rise into our atmosphere or even stratosphere is a silly one. Here's some cool scientific data: A movie showing dust traveling west from Africa across the Atlantic Ocean. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast26jun_1/ This article from 1967 titled "Vertical distribution of dust in the stratosphere" quantified dust in the atmosphere by taking actual measurements (no faith needed) http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1967SCoA...11..345R/0000345.000.html Think about this. After Hawaii was created by volcanic action, all that was left behind was basalt... no life and not much that could sustain life. Over millions of years, enough soil was carried over there through the atmosphere that plant and animal life could take a foothold and flourish. If there is any nefarious motive behind mandating a move to different refrigerants (other than improving the health of the ecosystem that our grandchildren will inhabit), I would first look towards those who stand to make a profit before pointing fingers at so called eco-fascists. Back to R-1234yf, there is a much larger body of evidence supporting the notion that R-1234yf poses no increase in danger in automobiles, than the one report by Diamler. I'm sure that Diamlers finding will be taken seriously and will be further reviewed. I look forward to seeing their findings. http://www.acr-news.com/news/news.asp?id=3125&title=Latest+SAE+research+finds+no+problem+with+R1234yf - -- Mark "Loeb" Soldan Mobile: 510-551-5087 mailto:loebotomy@gmail.com "Never doubt that a few committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 16:57:09 -0500 From: "Don Hansen" Subject: xj: Re: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Holy Crap!!! A volcano just floated over my house!!!! - -----Original Message----- From: john Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 3:59 PM To: xj Subject: Re: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Dust, volcanoes and freon are three different items with different properties. We can't manage the 1st two, but can the last item via education and technology. My point is that we work daily with all kinds of harmful and hostile chemicals safely. Let's educate, not legislate. ######## john @ wagoneers.com ######## "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" - Theodore Roosevelt ######## two word summary: Trust Jesus ######## - -----Original Message----- From: "Mark \"Loeb\" Soldan" Sender: owner-xj@digest.net Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2013 09:25:42 To: Reply-To: xj@digest.netSubject: xj: RE: [db] "Green" A/C Coolant Causes Fires, Poisons Humans, Melts Glass (fwd) Freon and other refrigerants have a vapor density of 3 to 5 times that of air (oxygen and nitrogen) and are therefore not buoyant when in a closed system with air. But in the real world, the atmosphere and the stratosphere are not closed systems. One factor that exists in the real world is currents. Air currents raise particles heavier than air (such as dust from deserts and volcanoes) high into the atmosphere where they stay aloft for a very long time, traveling great distances. The notion that refrigerants cannot rise into our atmosphere or even stratosphere is a silly one. Here's some cool scientific data: A movie showing dust traveling west from Africa across the Atlantic Ocean. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast26jun_1/ This article from 1967 titled "Vertical distribution of dust in the stratosphere" quantified dust in the atmosphere by taking actual measurements (no faith needed) http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu//full/1967SCoA...11..345R/0000345.000.html Think about this. After Hawaii was created by volcanic action, all that was left behind was basalt... no life and not much that could sustain life. Over millions of years, enough soil was carried over there through the atmosphere that plant and animal life could take a foothold and flourish. If there is any nefarious motive behind mandating a move to different refrigerants (other than improving the health of the ecosystem that our grandchildren will inhabit), I would first look towards those who stand to make a profit before pointing fingers at so called eco-fascists. Back to R-1234yf, there is a much larger body of evidence supporting the notion that R-1234yf poses no increase in danger in automobiles, than the one report by Diamler. I'm sure that Diamlers finding will be taken seriously and will be further reviewed. I look forward to seeing their findings. http://www.acr-news.com/news/news.asp?id=3125&title=Latest+SAE+research+finds+no+problem+with+R1234yf - -- Mark "Loeb" Soldan Mobile: 510-551-5087 mailto:loebotomy@gmail.com "Never doubt that a few committed individuals can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has" - Margaret Mead ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 15:08:37 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: xj: Re:Diesel Jeep 2014 http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/01/jeep-20130114.html saving? what's that? still paying for the '05 KJ CRD... getting mid-20's in town, no complaints... my jetta tdi wagon is getting 31+ in town, which I thought wasn't great until realizing that the wagon is rated at 29mpg. :) I'm hoping to get my '83 J10 stepside with the SD33T/tf727 home and finished... but am tempting myself with another 6.2 conversion in my '83 J10 longbed... have found TWO good deals on low mileage 6.2's... :) must resist... :) thanx for sharing... :) john ----- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -o|||||o- Linux: the choice of a GNU generation http://WAGONEERS.COM Snohomish, WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold ...shop AMSOIL directly at: http://AMSOIL.com/redirect.cgi?zo=283461 - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- "A thorough knowledge of the Bible is worth more than a college education" Theodore Roosevelt (26th President (1901-09), 1858-1919) - Trust Jesus - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- # # From: Edward Pomeroy # To: john # Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2013 18:03:57 -0500 # Subject: Jeep # # Jeep diesel - start savin' # # http://www.greencarcongress.com/2013/01/jeep-20130114.html ------------------------------ End of xj-digest V1 #3456 *************************