Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:50:48 -0700 (MST) From: Brian Riggs <Brian.Riggs-at-genetics.utah.edu> Subject: Wagooneers (fwd) Say it isn't so!!!! The Cj people are gonna defile our fsj's by putting our parts on their cj's. Not to mention making it even harder and more expensive to find parts for our rigs. Brian ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brett Davis <bdavis-at-burgoyne.com> writes: > Most people don't realize what a treasure the old wagoneers and > cherokees are for axles and motors and trannys. The 78 has stock: 44s, > 360, T18 w/ granny. Put these components in a 81-83 CJ, keeping the Dana > 300, and you have an all-jeep rock crawler geared at 60:1 that is > streetable with 33s or 35s with 3.54s (360 remember?) > babble babble, favorite subject, I tend to go on and on > hope this helps What amazes me about wagooneers is that 90% of the junk yards you go to have one. Parts should be dirt cheap. How often do you find a CJ, TLC, Sammy, ... in a yard. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Terry L. Howe http://unix.off-road.com/~txh3202 Colorado Springs, CO mailto:txh3202-at-worldnet.att.net '81 CJ-7, '45 CJ-2A LIOR, NE4W, UFWDA[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Anhalt <tanhalt-at-earthlink.net> Subject: Re: NP208 shifting/rebuilding questions At 02:30 PM 12/3/96 -0800, you wrote: >Tom, > >this could very well be an adjustment associated with the lever. >especially if a cable is involved... even with a direct mechanical >lever these things get out of adjustment... > >have similar challenges with my NP242, had the same issue with >several NP207's... and a couple of NP229's. Even Old Blue >gets "cranky" every now and then... > >not to worry... try adjusting first... > >john > > If it was just a matter of not being able to engage or jumping out of gear, I would be willing to bet an adjustment would do the trick. What makes me think it's something internal is the grinding noise that doesn't stop unless I turn off the engine, even though the tranny is in park. -Tom Anhalt '81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo '65 Buick Special Convertible Santa Barbara, CA[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 15:32:14 -0800 (PST) From: john <john-at-> Subject: Re: NP208 shifting/rebuilding questions it's just trying to engage, but it's just so very close... my np219 does this right now, you can try placing the tranny in neutral and waiting a bit... or in park or do you have a manual... later, john[Back to Top]
Date: 3 Dec 1996 16:24:22 -0600 From: "Jeff Gunn" <jgunn-at-hou.varco.com> Subject: Re: Q-Trac steering knuckle Thanks for the info on the fitting...You guys are just real darn helpful! I hope that "other" fluid is OK for now. I guess I'll order some REAL QT fluid in the spring when I start doing some driving. Jeff Gunn '78 Cherokee 4 doors, no floors...[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 96 18:42:17 EST From: rdmbfe-at-micro.lucent.com (M_B_FEICK) Subject: Tires/Chains Can anyone tell me if it is bad idea to put chains on all 4 wheels with full-time 4wd? I would think that the BW QT could compensate for this... Most places have chains for 9.75x16.5 tires for about $125-$140 for reinforced "V" chain. Pep Boys has some for $35 and $70. Any experience with these chains? Brad Feick '78 J20[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:01:09 +0000 From: "Doug Marschka" <moosh-at-redrose.net> Subject: 74-80 Jeep Parts Book Prices Everyone, If you told me you were interested in a copy, you should have gotten two copies of this message. One from me and one from the list. If not, look above and figure out how I screwed up your address, and let me know. Back to the book. Talked to the guy at the printers, and turns out he has an old jeep and wants a copy of the book too. He's making me and himself a copy tonight for free, so I can look how they come out tomorrow. He says he can print it on #70 paper (very nice and heavy, will take greasy fingers with no problem) and but them in three ring D binders so they lay flat and the whole thing is $50 bucks a book, plus what it costs me to ship it to you (all). It could have been a little cheaper on lighter paper, but I figure we want these to last, and it was only a difference of a couple of bucks. Now that you know the price, could everyone let ASAP if they're still interested. This is quite a chuck of change to get these all done. Especially seeing how I r a poor college student. Let me know and we'll get this thing moving. Later, Zack Heisey '79 J-10 '79 Che'rot'kee Chief Wide Track P.S. Before someone asks, no I'm not making any money on this at all.[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:03:36 -0800 (PST) From: john <john-at-> Subject: Re: Tires/Chains I know it's not a bad idea to put them on the front wheels to pull yourself around... I know the XJ's say do NOT use chains... can't recall from the SJ manuals if it's a problem. I've never had a reason to chain up my Jeeps... We go up in the mountains to play in the snow... you go until you can't cause you're pushing snow with the grill... :) or until you're floating on top and ya don't go no mo... later, john > > Can anyone tell me if it is bad idea to put chains on all 4 wheels with > full-time 4wd? I would think that the BW QT could compensate for this... > Most places have chains for 9.75x16.5 tires for about $125-$140 for reinforced > "V" chain. Pep Boys has some for $35 and $70. Any experience with these > chains? > Brad Feick > '78 J20 > > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > >[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:05:23 -0800 (PST)
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: EFI and all that...
>
> John,
>
> At least get some information on the Howell EFI
> setup before buying the equipment below. The
> Howell kit, designed for Jeeps, includes an
> electric fuel pump, closed loop capability,
> and a real "learning" computer (ECM) to control
> the whole thing. That box that Holley ships and
> calls the "computer" is a joke. I hear the newer
> ($$$) Digital Holley ProJection setup is closer to
> what Howell has been selling for years.
>
> You are an Engineer (I assume, Boeing right?),
non-degreed... :(
> call Howell, talk to Bill Howell, ask him some
> questions.
do you have his number? Toll free? :)
>
> BTW, I'm running a +45 psi electric fuel pump using
> the stock GW steel fuel lines. No problem. Easy
> install.
what does a complete Howell set up run?
later,
john
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john-at- http://www.
81 (SJ) & 88 (XJ) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real freedom comes from knowing Him who made us free...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -Ken
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:09:11 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Wallace <redgator-at-bu.edu> Subject: Re: Tires/Chains On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, M_B_FEICK wrote: > Can anyone tell me if it is bad idea to put chains on all 4 wheels with > full-time 4wd? Been there, done that...Wanna do it again when I have some time....Can you say "uphill in snow above the bumper on whitewalls?". I'd personally consider it a "good idea". I would think that the BW QT could compensate for this... If you need to chain all four chances are you are gonna be having a little wheelslip anyway...lock the QT in 4Lo > Most places have chains for 9.75x16.5 tires for about $125-$140 for reinforced > "V" chain. Pep Boys has some for $35 and $70. Any experience with these > chains? Nope...used four mismatching chains that a buddy had lying around...man were they ever cold to put on. > Brad Feick > '78 J20 > > > Later Mark > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > >[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:01:30 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Wallace <redgator-at-bu.edu> Subject: Re: NP208 shifting/rebuilding questions On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Tom Anhalt wrote: > At 02:30 PM 12/3/96 -0800, you wrote: > >Tom, > > > >this could very well be an adjustment associated with the lever. > >especially if a cable is involved... even with a direct mechanical > >lever these things get out of adjustment... > > > >have similar challenges with my NP242, had the same issue with > >several NP207's... and a couple of NP229's. Even Old Blue > >gets "cranky" every now and then... > > > >not to worry... try adjusting first... > > > >john > > > > > > If it was just a matter of not being able to engage or jumping out of gear, > I would be willing to bet an adjustment would do the trick. What makes me > think it's something internal is the grinding noise that doesn't stop unless > I turn off the engine, even though the tranny is in park. This sounds eerily like "Mark forgot how to shift his transfer case syndrome" Only you have to substitute Tom in for Mark...Anyway after not driving my Wagoneer for nine months once I had the worst time trying to shift the dang thing without grinding...and I could do it fine just a a few months before.... (I also scraped rocker panels where I had never scraped before...you forget more than you might think during Jeep Downtime) Anyway Transfer case doesn't have any synchromesh...Sorta like an ancient truck's first gear...can't very well double clutch with an Automatic, but you can match speeds...if I remember correctly the order of doing stuff to go into 4 Lo was... 1. Slow down to under five MPH. 2. Move xfer case shift lever 3. Get rolling again and lean on xfer case to make sure it's fully engaged If you still have problems then I'd next go to the mechanical linkage...I had a buddy in one of the 4x4 clubs with an 83 Wag that we swapped xfer cases on and the linkage adjustments were not the same from one Wag to the other so his wouldn't go all the way into 4 lo and it would grind like a monster.... If all this doesn't work then and only then would I consider cracking open the xfer case and seeing what's up. > -Tom Anhalt > '81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo > '65 Buick Special Convertible > Santa Barbara, CA > > > Later Mark "Lazyness is the mother of invention" > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > >[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:29:50 -0500 From: Widetrac80-at-aol.com Subject: Re: NP208 shifting/rebuilding questions hey Tom!, A guy with the service manual who has built his 208 is sending me the pages from the service manual....Mine has the same symptoms, Ill be glad to send you the info as I get it![Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:25:30 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Wallace <redgator-at-bu.edu> Subject: Re: Gentlemen!!! This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --------------657E122C7CC3 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Kenneth E. Wetherall wrote: > this guy is a publisher with Petersens mags..4whl n OR!!! > > what can we tell him about us??? We could tell him that we are all stark raving lunatics...or...probably more appropriately tell him what and who we are...a mailing list on the computer as well as the fact that a number of us have met each other...wheeled together...traded parts, tools, stupid ideas, good ideas, etc. Petersen's 4x mag is pretty together when it comes to the Big Jeeps...Rick Pewe has a 4 door Cherokee that occasionsally gets used for a magazine project... > > xxoo ken > -- > Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net > Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps > just do it! > "War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means." > LATER Mark --------------657E122C7CC3--[Back to Top]
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:37:39 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Alan!!
everyone of ur posts seems to be one L o n g single line!!!
my netscape hates that!! :(
xoxo ken
--
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:44:09 +0000 From: "Doug Marschka" <moosh-at-redrose.net> Subject: Re: NP208 shifting/rebuilding questions I have the offical jeep book for rebuilding the NP208 Jeep transfer case. Its not very long, and I could send you a copy if your going to rebuild. Zack Heisey '79 J-10 '79 Che'rot'kee Chief Wide Track[Back to Top]
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 1996 01:47:00 +0100 From: tommy.lovsund-at-seinf.mail.abb.com Subject: Re: duhhh (wiring accessories)-- multi part >> well!!!! how well do they work..do u like em??? Haven't tried them yet, my Chero is still in resto mode, however I'm using round Bosch H4 on my J20 and they're great. Tried to run 100/80 watt bulbs but melted some wiring, went back to 60/55 but will upgrade with relays and wires later and switch to 100/80 W. Later, Tommy[Back to Top]
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:47:25 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Wm!!!!
Wm Bechtel wrote:
> (Or if I had 3 dogs - WAG ON EER - ala Budwiser frogs)
THATS BudwEiser!!!!!!!!!!!!
<rolls eyes>
xoxo ken
--
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:50:51 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Widetrac!!!!!!!!!!!!
I NEW IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
xoxo ken
Widetrac80-at-aol.com wrote:
>
> Ken, you are absolutely correct, ABOUT the same as a Jtruck....
>
--
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 16:53:44 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Jeff !!!!!!!!!!!!
where were these fittings located???
xoxo ken
Jeff Gunn wrote:
>
> I read on a recent post that on the Quadra-Trac equipped FSJs that the
> front steering knuckle was difficult to lube, and was known to fail and
> cause tranny/transfer case damage. I had my front driveshaft off
> recently, and lubed the obvious grease fittings. I noticed that there
> were some unusual looking fittings which my $5 grease gun didn't fit.
> If I go to the local lube shop, can these guys lube it for me? Has
> anyone found a fitting to do this at home? I HATE to put my cars in the
> shop, especially for a lube, but if necessary...
>
> Thanks in advance....
>
> Jeff
> '78 Cherokee
>
--
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 19:32:03 -0800 From: kenc-at-softthought.com (Ken Cyr) Subject: Re: SV: EFI and all that... Frank, Correct, Howell uses the GM ECM, which is described as a "learning" computer. From what I remember, Howell machines the stock Holley unit to add sensors, MAP? TPS? I forget which ones. They have both Holley and GM throttle body units available from small 2 bbl. to big 4 bbl. sizes. All the parts except the custom harness and machined Holley TBI are available over the counter at your local part counter. (maybe not yours in Norway) The Howell Kit goes for around $1000. The Holley kit you have seen for $450 or so is the bare bones, open loop, kinda-like a computer controller but technically comparable to cruise control version. -Ken > ------------------------------ > Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 18:56:16 +0100 > From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Frank_Alm=E5s?=" <falmaas-at-online.no> > Subject: SV: EFI and all that... > > As I know the ECM in the Howell kit is the standard GM ECM and the throttle > body is a Holley piece. And it's a closed-loop computer, but you can also > have that retrofit into the Holley setup. I also think the price is about > $400 - 500 more than the Holley 670 so it really should be better. > > Frank > Norway > 77 Wagoneer >[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:51:44 -0800 (PST) From: Thomas Anhalt <tanhalt-at-earthlink.net> Subject: Re: NP208 shifting/rebuilding questions At 07:29 PM 12/3/96 -0500, you wrote: >hey Tom!, A guy with the service manual who has built his 208 is sending me >the pages from the service manual....Mine has the same symptoms, Ill be glad >to send you the info as I get it! > > Thanks. I've got the manual already. That's why I don't think it'll be that hard. I think I'll try Mark's suggestions first. Tom Anhalt '81 Wide-Track Cherokee Laredo '65 Buick Special Convertible Santa Barbara, CA[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:54:40 -0600 From: ksquilt-at-express-news.net Subject: Selec-Trac Question Howdy! Been lurking for a while but came up with a question. The manuals I got w/ my GW (360, auto trans w/ selec-trac 229 transfer case) warn about shifting into LO while in 2WD. I really can't think of a reason where 2WD & LO would be needed, other than bone head things like forgetting to shift into 4WD before moving the transfer case lever. The book sez that the range lever shift linkage could be damaged. Ever heard of a case where this has happened? Other problems like disintegrating transfer case gears? Are there any vaccuum or mechanical balks that would keep someone from making said bonehead mistake? Not that *I* would do somethinglike that...... I'm careful!.... far too smart for anything like that........ and an engineer..... (OK that one didn't help my argument much, huh?) -grin- Just wonderin in San Antonio. Chris Sharp[Back to Top]
Date: 03 Dec 96 21:20:03 EST From: Michael Baxter <74172.1164-at-CompuServe.COM> Subject: Jeep wagoneer Gary Sanders <gws-at-n8emr.nitetech.com> writes: >> 86 wagoneer (not a grand) 90Kmiles, 6 cylinder motor. << Oh know...not another ham nerd! Gary is describing a XJ, I believe. Oh John. Oh whoever else it is that has an XJ. Gary, the XJ Wagoneer is the small down-sized introduced in 1984. This list's bent is the full-size Wags produced from 1963-'91. Which one are you describing -- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 03-Dec-1996 !^NavFont01F000EMGkHGtMG5AHH3CB5FE[Back to Top]
Date: 03 Dec 96 21:20:13 EST
From: Michael Baxter <74172.1164-at-CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Re: j truck parts!
"Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net> writes:
>> Ken--
Glad to hear you have a fullsize Jeep club brewing. Please
send me the info so we can run it in the magazine.
David Freiburger
Editor <<
Ken, have you been answering letters in 4WD mags again? ...Me too!
I also plugged the group but, I didn't send subscription info. for fear they
would publish it.
-- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter
From Reno, NV USA on 03-Dec-1996
!^NavFont01F000DMGrHG{MGA5HHsA7CB
[Back to Top]Date: 03 Dec 96 21:20:08 EST From: Michael Baxter <74172.1164-at-CompuServe.COM> Subject: Drain holes Randy Benderman <rbenderm-at-ix.netcom.com> writes: >> I've noticed, since we finally got a bit of rain here in SoCal, that the two rear doors on the Wag are holding 2 to 3 inches of water in the bottom of them. Are there supposed to be drain holes at the bottom of the doors? I assume so. I also assume that I'm either going to have to find them and clear them out or drill new ones. Anyone else have this problem? << Randy, my Wag. has had the same problem with the left rear door. I found the stock drain holes plugged. I unplugged them and drilled a few new ones for good measure. -- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 03-Dec-1996 !^NavFont01F000AMGnHGwHHD6887D[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:01:11 -0600 From: Greg Harper <freezer-at-indy.webbits.net> Subject: ++'79 Cherokee Parts?++ Any hope of finding a carb kit for my newly rebuilt 360? It's in a '79 Cherokee Wide Track. I taked to Jeep here in town about the carb kit & they say it's no longer made. Are there any parts books that have exchange lists? How about a parts catalog that actually DOES carry parts for this model? Any ideas? I need( & will be needing) various parts too. One part I can think of is the frozen cable running from the heat temperature control. Anyway, it's great to see so many posts on email over Jeep. I couldn't believe it would be a lively bunch here. Thanks all, Greg freezer-at-bts.webbits.net[Back to Top]
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 19:41:05 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Mike B. !!!!
so mike what are u saying???
how do i plug the list w/o telling those how to subscribe???
xoxo ken
--
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 19:42:11 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Mike B. !!
mike ya still wanna come to the FSJ fest in Grass Valley???
its on the 17 18 19!!
xoxo ken
--
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 19:56:50 -0800
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: Selec-Trac Question
At 07:54 PM 12/3/96 -0600, ksquilt-at-express-news.net wrote:
>Howdy!
>Been lurking for a while but came up with a question. The manuals I got w/
>my GW (360, auto trans w/ selec-trac 229 transfer case) warn about shifting
>into LO while in 2WD. I really can't think of a reason where 2WD & LO would
>be needed, other than bone head things like forgetting to shift into 4WD
>before moving the transfer case lever.
in the old days... that sounded strange... anyway, with Dana 20's and
the Dana 300's it was possible with the 2 stick variants to actually use
2wd LOW. If you didn't lock your hubs in with the one stick Dana 20 you
could have a low range 2wd... WHY? Let's say for instance that you
want to pull that Ford E350 Club Wagon that decided to see if Snohomish
REALLY doesn't have shoulders, and he found out they don't... and he's
buried to his frame in mud. So you, being the kind hearted FSJ soul
that you are, not to mention this is another cool way of showing Jeep
superiority, hook up a chain and give him a tug in 2wd high, mainly
cause you are on terra firma of the pavement variety. Ok, you quickly
determine that your clutch does not like this, so you reach over and
engage LOW range, and voila, out the wagon comes... Yep, bascially,
in 2wd, cause your hubs weren't locked in, and if they had been you knew
you'd have major bind and could snap something... HOWEVER, while you
spared a driveshaft ujoint or maybe the case, you still could have damaged
your transfer case, WHY? Because you placed an uneven load on the gears,
and on some xfr cases you could actually break the case doing something like
that.
So that and the fact that the Selectrac uses an aluminum case with a chain
AND the fact that to put it into LOW range while in 2wd would mean having
to FORCE THE LEVER against an interlock...
(BTW, I used my 67 Wagoneer as described, with no damage, but because
of the "imbalance" of the load could have damaged a lesser case than
a Dana 20...)
>
>The book sez that the range lever shift linkage could be damaged. Ever heard
>of a case where this has happened?
not damaged, but out of adjustment because of a "settled" transfer case
or tranny mount, or a bad motor mount, or a bozo mechanic who didn't
put it back together correctly...
>Just wonderin in San Antonio.
>Chris Sharp
later,
john
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john-at- http://www.
81 (SJ) & 88 (XJ) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real freedom comes from knowing where you're going... when it's all over.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Mon, 02 Dec 1996 19:58:00 -0800
From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" <kenns-at-concentric.net>
Subject: Should we advertise!
Genlemen,
There are many avenues that i can take to plug our group, one of which is of course the
pictures some of u sent me that i will send in. BUT...should i tell people
how to subscribe to our group??? If not, then what is the point of telling
that we have a group in the first place! I understand about privacy.
The only thing i can come up with is to just tell that we belong to a club, and
not an email group!! If this is the tone of our group then i will NOT tell
the mags i send the photos to that we have an email club, just a regular Jeep club!
Also, the periodical "In Gear" is put out by the California Association of 4WD clubs.
its an org that i belong to and orginizes most of the runs that i go to. It has a section
of email and web, and mailing lists, 4wd related. I can send in our list info,
for they have the jeep-l and the offroad mailing lists! What i need is a concenous
of what this group would prefer.
This decision will determine how i word the letter to the mags i send the photos to!
Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
just do it!
"War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:02:52 -0800 (PST) From: john <john-at-> Subject: Re: Mike B. !!!! ken, a much better question is, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???? john > > so mike what are u saying??? > > how do i plug the list w/o telling those how to subscribe??? > > xoxo ken > -- > Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net > Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps > just do it! > "War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means." > > > > --------------------------------------------------- > To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command > "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > >[Back to Top]
Date: 03 Dec 96 23:36:43 EST From: "DOROTHY I. STREICH" <104346.766-at-CompuServe.COM> Subject: I'm not the only one!!!!!!!!! Hello, I joined the list a couple of months after I got my GW this summer. I've been reading the list, and I don't understand 3/4 of what I read, but I don't care. Why? Well, I can't keep it in any longer. I've got a 1989 Grand Wagoneer (black, fake wood, 360 cu in V8, 31 x 10. 5s) and I LOVE IT. >>>It has electrical problems, leaks, and consumes fossil fuels like >dinosaurs were going out of style, I don't know **** about motors, >electrical systems, drive trains, nada; and I LOVE IT. When I can't >afford to put gas in it any longer; I'll sit in it, in my driveway, >and smile. > >Wheeeooo! I'm glad I got that off my chest. There is absolutely >nothing to match the pleasure of rolling down the highway in such a >beautiful behemoth. > >Presently I'm in the Petersburg/Hopewell area of Virginia; come >January I'll be in Natick, MA. > <I hope I'll have something to contribute to the list after I get a >few more miles under my belt. > >Rob C.<<< > > I am so glad that I'm not the only one (I've had my baby---I mean cherokee---almost 2 years) anyway, whenever I work on it and can't drive it I do the same thing...People think I am krazy. I understand your love of FSJ's. Good thing you found the FSJ support group. Karl Streich FSJ's anonomys memder[Back to Top]
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 20:45:10 -0800
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: Ken's reply to the 64,000 dollar question...
ok: Charter members:
Mike Lacher - John Meister - Allen Lundgren - Rolf Aalto
David Klingenberg
Ken Wetherall - Michael Baxter - Hunter Hasbrouck - Doc/Dennis Fariello
Rich Holley Ron Strouss Eddie Peterson Steve Nordby
Charter Members, who do you remember who it was that introduced
you to this pack of maniacs????
Does this sound about right? Does anybody really care?
Here's what's got my interest in this thing: Time goes flying right
past us and I haven't been paying attention. I'm curious about how
it got going. There is little in the way of reward or recognition
involved. We haven't heard a peep out of the Wild Wagoneer man from
Fargo in a long time, yet it was his posts on Rec.Autos.4x4 that got
me really thinking about it. Then when Ken came along with his Wagoneer,
that just happened to be the same color as my first wagoneer, AND I noticed
his Wagoneer in a magazine AND he noticed mine in a magazine... well,
we just couldn't help ourselves... :)
But what fascinates me about history is that little things like this often
become a big deal... Look at American Graffitti to give you an idea...
Look at what becomes collectors items... How many have said, "If I only
had saved that (fill in the blank), it would be worth " fill in the amount"
now. huh?
Ok, so it looks like this is a likely scenario:
Mike Lacher and John swap email winter/spring 95
Mike Lacher posts the Wagoneer Owners Unite thing summer 95
John and Allen L swap Wagoneer stories spring 95
John and Charles Butcher swap J-series stories winter/spring 95
(although Charles wasn't one of the charter members cause of
personal or Jeep health problems... :) He came in later)
I remember finding Russ down in Portland - he was working at
Intel where I had... he was looking for a motor, and I was
negoting with Tom on a motor for him and was going to drive it
down in my trailer...
I remember swapping email with David Klingenberg because my
Grandmother remarried after my Grandfather died to a Klingenberg,
and I visited a town in Germany called Klingenberg (am Main).
I remember meeting Rolf, cause he had an email at the UW...
Michael Baxter and Ken swap email spring(?)/summer 95
John and Ken meet, swap email over the garage scenes thing summer 95
Ken did drive the idea along with Mike Lacher.
Ken found doc, I'm sure of it. I was wondering who this guy was,
I still am... <vlg,rofl,swwlmho> also confused me because I have
three other friends that go by doc, and two of them really are...
Ken (?) brought in Hunter and Rich Holley or was it Michael?
it gets fuzzy after that, but somewhere in there
the other charter members join up.
The 13th disciple was not Eddie in BC, but Aalto from the UW, fall 95.
Eddie was probably the 12th. :)
I will say this, that Ken Wetherall has been probably the most active
in expanding the list and searching out cool information off the internet,
and is also the most accomplished FSJ driver in the bunch. Second to
Ken in having a cool setup is probably tied between Jim the Mechanic's
82 Chero and Frank(in Norway)'s really cool Wagoneer...
Lots of cool rigs among us.
Y'all have inspired me to start getting serious about finishing up Old
Blue... first I'm gonna loosen up all the springs and get my axles
lined up straight, then I'm gonna check those driveshaft angles and
if they're ok, get 'em balanced. Then I'm gonna do some soul searching
on going to Fuel Injection, swapping in a V8 w/FI or following through
on the Diesel... no rush, plenty of time and little money...
ttyl,
john
At 09:19 PM 12/3/96 EST, Michael Baxter wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------
> FORWARDED MESSAGE - Orig: 02-Dec-96 20:15
> Subject: IMPORTANT FSJ dates...
> From: "Kenneth E. Wetherall" > INTERNET:kenns-at-concentric.net
> To: Michael Baxter 74172,1164
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Michael Baxter wrote:
> > > >> What about doc?
> > > Who brought him in? Ken? <<
> cant remember
>> > Ken found Kevin if I remember correctly.
>> correct. then i sent him to John, cuz i thot John would have more no how
>about comp sys to get a list started than i!
>> >
> > Like I said before, I think Ken is the Keymaster. I'm pretty sure this is
>all
> > his fault :-)
>> like i twisted ur arm to sign on!! ;)
>> xoxo ken
>> --
> Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
> Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
> just do it!
> "War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
>
>
> Distribution:
>
> To: [74172,1164]
>
> -- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter
> From Reno, NV USA on 03-Dec-1996
>
>!^NavFont01F0007MGHHM620040
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john-at- http://www.
81 (SJ) & 88 (XJ) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real freedom comes from knowing Him who made us free...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 20:55:43 -0800
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: Jeep wagoneer
absotivally an XJ. Don't do it Gary. Unless you plan on
swapping in a nice FI 4.3l V-6 Chevy... The 2.8L V-6 is
a terrible motor. Many of them died within 1,000 miles of
the original warranty. Chevy even recognized them as bad
news and had a TARGETMASTER replacement for them...
They were gutless, thirsty, vibrated worse than Old Blue between
25 and 35 mph, had crummy carbs (no fault of Chevy).... other
than that they were fine. They make especially good conversation
pieces... I'll be glad to send you a picture that shows what the
crank looks like when it breaks between #2 & #3 cylinders...
I've owned 3 Xj's and 1 Mj with that motor... Past Tense. My current
XJ has the 4.0L, excellent motor. My first XJ had the 2.1L Turbo Diesel,
other than it was a typical French motor that was overdesigned and under
engineered, it was far better than the 2.8L. I've had a few encounters
with the 2.5L engine, and wouldn't mind owning one. My folks use one
for towing a heavy equipment trailer, doc can verify the stoutness of
the trailer, I'd say easily 2,500 to 3,000 lbs...
Anyway. Like I said before RUN, don't walk, unless this thing is
a super sweet deal, as in LESS than 2k. The other thing that worries
me about this thing is the repainting... why? rust? damage? poor care?
the Light Ivory Creme paint is easy to care for...
anyway, XJ's are ok rigs, they're nimble, and they are Jeeps. Very capable
off road, more capable than a Wrangler in even a mediocre driver's hands.
But they do not have the ride, visibility or room of an SJ... That's why
I'm keeping Old Blue...
later,
home improvement is almost on.... :)
john
At 09:20 PM 12/3/96 EST, Michael Baxter wrote:
>Gary Sanders <gws-at-n8emr.nitetech.com> writes:
>
> >> 86 wagoneer (not a grand) 90Kmiles, 6 cylinder motor. <<
>
> Oh know...not another ham nerd!
>
> Gary is describing a XJ, I believe. Oh John. Oh whoever else it is that has
>an XJ.
>
> Gary, the XJ Wagoneer is the small down-sized introduced in 1984. This list's
>bent is the full-size Wags produced from 1963-'91.
>
> Which one are you describing
>
>
> -- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter
> From Reno, NV USA on 03-Dec-1996
>
>!^NavFont01F000EMGkHGtMG5AHH3CB5FE
>
>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command
>"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message.
>
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john-at- http://www.
81 (SJ) & 88 (XJ) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real freedom comes from knowing Him who made us free...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 20:58:39 -0800
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: lively bunch...
At 09:01 PM 12/3/96 -0600, Greg Harper wrote:
>Anyway, it's great to see so many posts on email over
>Jeep. I couldn't believe it would be a lively bunch here.
>Thanks all,>Greg >freezer-at-bts.webbits.net
>
welcome aboard Greg. Whereabouts are you? having to deal with salt
on the roads?
You aren't experiencing the full joy of the list. Doc is only on
about 2 or 3 times a week, and Indy Joe has been under the weather,
and the list took a thanksgiving holiday, and Java Joe is out to
sea... and Mark has been awful quiet too...
:)
later,
john
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john-at- http://www.
81 (SJ) & 88 (XJ) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real freedom comes from knowing Him who made us free...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Back to Top]Date: Tue, 03 Dec 1996 21:52:19 -0800
From: john <john-at->
Subject: Re: Should we advertise!
Ken,
thanx for asking. The list is growing very fast, we're lucky
so far.
Look at what happened to Rec.Autos.4x4, and the other lists. We've
kept it clean, family and fun. We can share more than just our Jeeps
here. Can we be sure that it will stay friendly if we go public?
Does it boils down to Same Old Same Old, or Fresh meat and flames? :)
I guess if the "listmom" is up to exterminating flamers and lowlifes like
Kevin Highsmith did, then opening it up might not be all that bad. There
are a lot of decent folks out there. Let's look at the a few key points,
these folks have a Full-Size Jeep and a computer, that puts them into a
special category already... conservative geek... <vbg>
Advertising might be asking for trouble, on the other hand if people
didn't know about us we wouldn't have met so many cool FSJ owners...
(I guess I'd say a conditional yes, yes if posts to the lists can only
come from subscribed members and the listmom can remove fireballs...)
later,
john
At 07:58 PM 12/2/96 -0800, Kenneth E. Wetherall wrote:
>Genlemen,
>
>There are many avenues that i can take to plug our group, one of which is
of course the
>pictures some of u sent me that i will send in. BUT...should i tell people
>how to subscribe to our group??? If not, then what is the point of telling
>that we have a group in the first place! I understand about privacy.
>
>The only thing i can come up with is to just tell that we belong to a club, and
>not an email group!! If this is the tone of our group then i will NOT tell
>the mags i send the photos to that we have an email club, just a regular
Jeep club!
>
>Also, the periodical "In Gear" is put out by the California Association of
4WD clubs.
>its an org that i belong to and orginizes most of the runs that i go to. It
has a section
>of email and web, and mailing lists, 4wd related. I can send in our list info,
>for they have the jeep-l and the offroad mailing lists! What i need is a
concenous
>of what this group would prefer.
>
>This decision will determine how i word the letter to the mags i send the
photos to!
>
> Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net
> Wagoneers, J-Trucks, Cherokees. U name it, the BIG Jeeps
> just do it!
> "War, is the furtherence of politics by alternate means."
>
>
>
>---------------------------------------------------
>To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command
>"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message.
>
>
>
>
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"When they came for the 2nd Amendment, I said nothing, for I owned no gun
Then the sixth was next to go, and I remained silent, as I was not on trial
They took away the fourth, and I said nothing, as I had nothing to hide
And then they came for the First, and I could say nothing."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
john-at- http://www.
81 (SJ) & 88 (XJ) Jeep Wagoneer Limited
Snohomish, WA - where jeeps don't rust, they mold.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Real freedom comes from knowing Him who made us free...
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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