From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Oct 1 22:14:32 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, October 2 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1050 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: steering stabilizer fsj: Re: goin crazy fsj: Re: Intake Manifold help NEEDED!!! fsj: Re: ideas for spare location... fsj: Re: steering stabilizer fsj: Brake system checking fsj: Re: [1FSJ] thought this was cute Re: fsj: Re: Intake Manifold help NEEDED!!! fsj: FWD: Question or two & 68 Wagoneer for sale fsj: WELCOME TO JEEP COUNTRY! Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: steering stabilizer Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: steering stabilizer Re: fsj: steering stabilizer fsj: the 77 Wagoneer... fsj: Killer32 fsj: re:speedo gear FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 10:44:29 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: steering stabilizer It makes your steering all loose and wobbly, like it has a lot of play in it.. Making it harder to control. I had that with my 79 wag.. It's needed.. trust me.. R.J. john wrote: > refresh my feeble memory, what does a steering stabilizer do? > or better yet, what happens if you don't have one? > > it's the shock thing on the front end that connects from the > crosslink to the spring mount... > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:42:42 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: goin crazy There is a shop in Pasco, WA that knows Jeeps inside and out. They like me cause they have alot of my money ; ) If anybody is headed that way, let me know and I'll give more details. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco In a message dated 9/30/00 11:17:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > At 09:52 PM 9/30/00 -0700, cycledog wrote: > >John, > > > >After years of motorcyle and hotrod stuff I thought it might be nice to go > in another direction so I bought a 77 cherokee wide track. I must say it is a > project vehicle, the 401 needs to be rebuilt and some rust needs taken care > of. This does not bother me, how ever the "goodies" part does. I think I have > looked at a thousand wed sites and talked to at least half that many shops > and have been told everything from Jeep didnt make a cherokee in 77 to whats > a full size Jeep???. I have seen many pictures on the wed of a lot of neet > looking FSJ's..my question is where do these people get the brush gaurds, > bumpers, and other aftermarket goodies, I cant seem to find any thing for FSJ' > s. Am I looking in all the wrong places??If you can help let me know. By the > way Im on the Dry side of Washington...execpt for today...its pouring...at > least no snow yet...Thank you...Steve Davis cycledog-at-gateway.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:03:52 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Intake Manifold help NEEDED!!! In a message dated 9/30/00 11:17:27 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:57:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) > > A: My soon to be ex and I went looking through the University Book store > today (she bought me a couple books on Linux) and while we were there, I > came across a book on Holley systems that showed the adapters that would > work with the spreadbore intake and squarebore carb (Schucks sells the > adapters) Jim- Can you give me more details on this book or the adapter? This seems like pretty unusual information. To be honest, I'm skeptical. While I have no doubt that you know the difference, I really have to wonder if the book was talking about a Q-jet type spreadbore rather than a 4350 type. Life would be easier if the former would work with the latter. I wrote: > I don't know what a Holley 1850 looks like, but chances are its not a > spreadbore with a squarebore bolt pattern like the stock Motorcraft 4350 > carb that intake was designed for. I'm told Trans-Dapt has an adapter to > go between this intake and a squarebore carb. It's part > # TDP-2199. You could make your own adapter from a 3/4 phenolic spacer. > You may have to make your own gaskets too. > Obi-Wan wrote: > Thanks for the pointer on the adapter. My '77 Wag 401 came (to me) with > an 1850 carb. It's a square bore. Mine was mounted onto the 1/2" (or so) > spreadbore spacer. All four bores on the 1850 are about halfway between > the size of the small & large bores on a 4350. My primaries can hardly > open at all because the butterfly valves hit the spacer, but the > secondaries open up just fine. > What kind of cfm rating does the 4350 have? Might it be worth looking > for someone to trade me straight-up for a 600 cfm 1850, or is the > aforementioned adapter plate resonably cheap? Somehow I missed this post the first time, sorry. I have a copy of the 4350 chapter from a '76 or so TSM. It doesn't indicate cfm. I would think 600 cfm would be plenty. I don't think the engine could possibly use more than that. If the 1850 is working okay I'd stick with it. If the primaries don't open all the way then you're saving that much more gas! The only potential problem might be that that stock phenolic spacer you're using cannot easily be replaced once it fails. An unbroken one has become rare. I may have gotten the last one in the national Chrysler dealer's system last year. I've seen one other NOS piece on e-bay that went for around $50 I think. Someday I'll try to make one (just for fun) but I haven't had time to look for the blank spacer yet. I've seen an adapter listed in the PAW catalog called a '"460 Ford" to squarebore' adapter - no picture. It would work but might need a vac port plugged or something. It's $50 too. I don't know what the Trans-dapt part costs. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:08:40 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: ideas for spare location... > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:15:33 -0700 > From: john > > I'm trying to figure out what to do with the spare tire on > my J10 Stepside now that I'm using the auxillary tank in the > spare location... How about mounting it vertically on the right side of the bed to help balance the weight of the driver. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 12:11:38 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: steering stabilizer > Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:18:00 -0700 > From: john > > At 11:11 PM 9/30/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: > >They were aftermarket only in '67 anyways > > remember someone did a spring over on his truck and did a lot > of hot wrench mods... the stabilizer is clamped onto the steering > linkage... kind of mickey mouse... I think we'll replace it > anyway, just to keep things from getting out of hand. :) If the stabilizer isn't clamped to the steering linkage, then how is it gonna do any good? I'm not sure why you call this MM, it sounds like many stock arrangements I've seen - and used. That's the way my '71 is. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:08:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Brake system checking A: I was in fine form this AM and did another technical writeup on brakes if anyone is interested. Mostly rehash of old stuff. FWD: Well, you came to the right place! I'm hooked into THOUSANDS of owners, but more on that later. First, to make sure you have a Grand Wagoneer, the number of bolts holding your wheels on are 6 per wheel. If you have only 5, then you have a downsized Wagoneer. The fusebox on a GW is above where your left foot normally sits on the firewall (in case you didn't know, that's the metal between you and the motor). You have to take a couple screws out of the driver's side AC vent tube and drop it down to get at them. (I'm very good with electrical problems with these most of the time too. If it's your rear window you're having trouble with, try slapping the driver's side of the tailgate) On the brakes, someone may have adjusted the Ebrake by tightening the cables instead of lubricating the rear wheel adjusters. Pull the rear drums off and make sure the cables aren't seized and the adjuster screw and self adjuster cables are complete and functioning. Push the ebrake on, with the drum off, and make sure the shoes move on both sides, then make sure they retract all the way (the cables should allow the arms to swing back to the shoes). If they don't move, or don't return all the way, take the brakes off and lube the cables (or replace if they are seized. If you can't find replacments right away, disconnect them from the lever on the shoes so you can manually adjust the rear brakes close enough to touching the drum that the auto adjusters work) I always take the adjuster screw apart and lube it with oil to make sure it's working. Is there a groove worn into the backing plate the shoes touch against? That will make your pedal mushy and keep the adjusters from working. If the little slider cables (that go from the top pin to the adjuster screw on the bottom) are stretched or frayed, they won't work and you need to manually adjust the rear brakes. (If your parts place can't find a listing for parts, the front brakes are the same as a '79 Chev 4x4 pickup according to my '79 -'60 Bendix book and my '84 takes the same as '79) Next, check the 3 brake hoses in this system. There is one at each front wheel and one in the middle of the rear axle. If there is a crack in them, the inside liner will bulge through like a balloon. Even if they are just cracked, replace them because they are near catastrophic failure point. Make sure all the steel lines are in good shape and not nearly rusted through (the one that goes from front to back tends to rot out behind the gas tank, and so does the frame because water and mud get trapped in there and can't get out.) I opened the bolts along the frame on mine and put a couple washers in to allow a space for water to come out, and so I could spray it clean after playing in the mud. It's a good idea to drop the tank (when it's empty of course) and rust kill the frame behind it if you plan to keep the Jeep a long time. If you haven't gone to sleep by this point, then you have made sure everything else in the system is working, and the pedal should be good, or the master cylinder is gone bad. '83 up to '88 GW use the same master cylinder, but no Chevs fit that I know of (I'm converting my master to a power steering assisted '77 Chev Hydroboost set up for more brake power, but that takes a bit of engineering!) You can test the master cylinder with line plugs screwed in where the lines are supposed to go. (you can make your own testers by buying a brake line with the same size ends and hammering the line flat near the nut so it doesn't leak) If you plug the line at the master one at a time, and the pedal becomes solid with one plugged, but not the other, then the corresonding section is bad. (EG: The line from the master cylinder that has the biggest reservoir of fluid is for the front) If the pedal goes down with both plugged (I forgot to mention that the pedal must be down while you tighten the lines or bleeder screws at the wheels, or air will be sucked in) the master is in need of replacing because the seals inside have worn out. One other not so little thing. Make ABSOLUTELY sure you get no oil into the brake system other than brake fluid because 1 drop is all it takes to destroy ALL your seals and hoses, and your brake will suddenly become hard but you won't be able to stop! This may seem like a huge task, but you will ensure you have the best brakes possible, and don't needlessly replace parts you didn't need (which is why I say change the master last) Oh yes, I nearly forgot! If your front brakes are nearly worn out, your pedal will be mushier than normal too! *WHEW!* Brake class is over for today! LOL! We have email lists of other nuts.... errr... owners of these fine rigs on http://www.wagoneers.com and http://www.egroups.com under 1fsj ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:13:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] thought this was cute A: The first one is Jeff Labonte from the old list and AMC-list. If someone has a photo album on Photopoint, you can find it by punching in their email on the front page. If anyone wants to open one of these FREE albums, just email or forward a pic to photos-at-photopoint.com and you will get an email back telling you how to do it. You can also contact the owner of any album by clicking on their name and leaving an email or signing the album (owner gets a copy in the email) Mark wrote: sorry jim lost all info.but found this trying to find it again.anyone we know? http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=17584&a=75145 also frank from norway has been silent for quite a while ,but ive found out what hees up to too! http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1198834&a=8838233 they cant keep anything from us! MARK 79 cherokee chief (ABOVE THE LAW) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:50:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Intake Manifold help NEEDED!!! A: The book just said Holley: Carbs and EFI on the cover with a pic (looks sort of like a Haynes manual, but I didn't have a pen with me. They only had about 50 books in the whole book store in the Automotive section that weren't boats or airplanes!) I've tried to recall the part number, but can't. It had a dual pattern manifold side for 2 different kinds of spreadbores. Schucks in Renton had one hanging on their rack and it WASN'T an open plenum one. It had ports in it that were shaped like what you would normally only see when looking into a trumpet or something. There is a phenolic spacer and good 4300 carb for sale here, but it's $1000! (comes with 65,000 mile 460 and '73 Mercury Marquis, which is a down sized Lincoln!) Ben wrote: Jim- Can you give me more details on this book or the adapter? This seems like pretty unusual information. To be honest, I'm skeptical. While I have no doubt that you know the difference, I really have to wonder if the book was talking about a Q-jet type spreadbore rather than a 4350 type. Life would be easier if the former would work with the latter. : My soon to be ex and I went looking through the University Book store  today (she bought me a couple books on Linux) and while we were there, I  came across a book on Holley systems that showed the adapters that would  work with the spreadbore intake and squarebore carb (Schucks sells the  adapters) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:08:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: FWD: Question or two & 68 Wagoneer for sale From: Jeremiah Westpfahl replyto:The_Miah-at-excite.com Yes, Putting a standard transmission in isn't hard to do. I just did this to my 81 Spirit. Took the 904 out from behind the Iron Duke & put the T-5 in. Great thing is that the lengths were near identical on the trans & the driveshafts, so I didn't have to change anything. Even the crossmembers & mounts happened to be close enough to bolt right up. Although there might be a little height difference, I haven't got quite that far along yet. It's still up in the air waiting for me to get the hydraulic clutch stuff finished & the floorpan hole trimmed out a bit more. The 68 Wagoneer is in the KC, Mo side. I've talked to the guy on other Jeeps before. He's a Wagoneer collector & has incredible prices on all he has. Last Wagoneer he had for sale was a Yellow 82 & he wanted $8900 for it at first becuase it had incredibly low miles. Miah ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 15:13:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: WELCOME TO JEEP COUNTRY! A: Bored again (Can you tell?) and surfing. I hit http://www.jeepville.com/ and found another "What's your favorite Jeep?" again, but this time you just post your choice in writing rather than vote (2 TJs and a CJ, and now Blackie! ) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** http://www.jeepville.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:00:21 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: steering stabilizer What about pot holes? a good jolt and he would lose control.. If it was my Son I would make sure he got a new one just to be safe. They don't cost that much, compared to your son's life Don't you think? Just my opinion.. R.J. john wrote: > At 01:10 AM 10/1/00 -0500, TLynn wrote: > >My 77' J-10 does not have one....I've not noticed any bad characteristics > >but have not done any serious off-roading either....and I haven't hit any > >curbs. > > mark's truck isn't a serious off-roader... so we'll probably be ok. :) > > thanx, > john > > >------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > >------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- > > To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com > To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:56:03 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [1FSJ] Re: fsj: steering stabilizer At 07:00 PM 10/1/00 -0500, R.J. Baynum wrote: >What about pot holes? a good jolt and he would lose control.. >If it was my Son I would make sure he got a new one just to be safe. They don't cost that much, compared to your son's >life >Don't you think? > >Just my opinion.. > >R.J. agreed... but like Jim pointed out, it was an aftermarket add-on that year... so the basic steering configuration is suitable and safe... john >john wrote: > >> At 01:10 AM 10/1/00 -0500, TLynn wrote: >> >My 77' J-10 does not have one....I've not noticed any bad characteristics >> >but have not done any serious off-roading either....and I haven't hit any >> >curbs. >> >> mark's truck isn't a serious off-roader... so we'll probably be ok. :) >> >> thanx, >> john >> >> >------------------------------------------------------ >> > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part >> > the truth which men prefer not to hear." >> > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar >> > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >> >------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------ >> http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >> "The truth which makes men free is for the most part >> the truth which men prefer not to hear." >> ---Herbert Sebastian Agar >> Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >> jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >> ------------------------------------------------------- >> >> To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com >> To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:20:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: steering stabilizer A: Big difference between the 2! That's apples and oranges. W/O seat belts you can also slide around on corners and lose control of your vehicle! The shock is to improve steering in rough situations and doesn't present a dangerous situation w/o one, but to drive around with a bent or sticking one, is just asking for trouble!       Would you drive a car with binding steering box or w/o a PS belt? Probably till you got to the parts shop to get another right? That is his plan here too. Ed T wrote: Seatbelts were optional on many cars until the early 70s, so would you consider a pre-70s car without a seatbelt suitable and safe? Later, Ed T. - ----- Original Message ----- At 07:00 PM 10/1/00 -0500, R.J. Baynum wrote: What about pot holes? a good jolt and he would lose control.. If it was my Son I would make sure he got a new one just to be safe. They don't cost that much, compared to your son's life Don't you think? Just my opinion.. R.J. agreed... but like Jim pointed out, it was an aftermarket add-on that year... so the basic steering configuration is suitable and safe... john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 19:43:58 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: the 77 Wagoneer... ...turns out Justin decided to go with a fresh rebuild with a shop down in Maple Valley... a really good deal, he's gonna share it with the list later. :) So it worked out fine. Looks like I've got the Wagoneer sold either way. :) heading to Home Depot to get some bolts for the bumper... getting up way early tomorrow to attend the O'Reilly Perl University... :) two days of intense Perl training, yee haw... later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:11:44 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Killer32 Scottie left a message at his web site say in went and moved to northern California. I sent a not to him , but got a mailer demon. It said, he was not taking any more orders until he sets up again on the west side.. thought somebody might want to know , unless you already do, then please disregard. Thanks.. R.J. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:16:46 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: re:speedo gear Andre, pull the plastic gear out and look at the number on it. I doubt you're 30% off. :) 3.07 gears with 29.3" tires to 30.5" tires with 4.10 gears... let's see, that's 25.1% for the gears, tires are only about 3% (one tire size) so my feeble math skill reveal ONLY a 28.1% error... rofl... I have two or three gears here. Also, the dealer will have 'em for pretty reasonable... Each number is about 3%, I think... If you get the speedo gear out of an xj with 3.55 stock gears you'll get closer... Let me know what number you have. I think they range from 26 to 44 or something like that... I'm not going out to dismantle the xfr cases I have tonight. :) email me, and the list, the number you currently have... I'm not sure which way to go... I think I have a 36 in SuperDawg, he's got 31x10.5s, 3.31's... the little wagoneer has a 44??? or is it a 39? 4.10's and 30x9.5's... but he's gonna get the 31's that Superdawg has... wait... my speedo is 3% off right now, so going to 31's will fix it... so all I need to do is pull my speedo gear and get the number for you... it should be perfect... it ain't gonna happen for a couple of days... john >From: Dre >Subject: xj: speedo gear > >Hello, > >I had just recently put 4.10s and 31x10.50 tires on my XJ and the speedo/odo is off by about 30% (started from 3.07 and 30x9.50 being just about perfect). I've been trying to look on the net for the new speedo gear I'd need but have been unsuccessful. Anyone know how many tooth on the speedo gear I'd need to put it back on track? Do I need to order just the gear to replace it? or do I need the long shaft also? > >my XJ is a '91, 4.0L, manual tranny and NP231 tcase. Thank you very much. > >Andre Susanto >Fairly stock '91XJ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1050 **************************