From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Oct 5 10:24:57 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, October 5 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1054 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: [Fwd: the website...make my head hurt...] fsj: FWD from the AMC-list: Re: Rev limit for 258 fsj: NY, NY trip - Oct 18 - 21 fsj: Fwd: Did the 4.0 Head on 4.2 Block fsj: Fwd: Holley Pro-Jection fsj: Re: Fwd: Holley Pro-Jection fsj: Jeep V6 powertrain confirmed RE: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... fsj: A-12 WRECK UPDATE - NEED CONFIRMATION ON fsj: Tailgate parts on eBay fsj: My wag is intermittently dying... fsj: Re: My wag is intermittently dying... Re: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 14:35:16 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: [Fwd: the website...make my head hurt...] Received: from mail20.bellsouth.net (mail20.bellsouth.net [209.215.32.170]) by mail2.lig.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with ESMTP id GAA21688 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:38:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (ds-img-7.compuserve.com [149.174.206.153]) by mail20.bellsouth.net (3.3.5alt/0.75.2) with ESMTP id GAA15724 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:44:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from mailgate-at-localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id GAA05648 for poolcues-at-bellsouth.net; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:38:20 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:38:10 -0400 From: KevinO Subject: the website...make my head hurt... Sender: KevinO To: "R.J. Baynum" Message-ID: <200010040638_MC2-B5AC-7C2D-at-compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Hey, >> Message text written by "R.J. Baynum" >> Here is the web site we were talking about >> http://www.citymotorsupply.com >> Look in the Top 50 engines, goes right to AMC engines there is only two listed.. >> Thanks.. >> See ya later.. >> R.J. Okay..... I didn't expect to find one *that* cheap. Kinda makes me leery about the quality issue, but it's worth doing some serious thinking about. IF we can do all that I spelled out in the other 'mail for less than $500 or so...it would worth our time to do it ourselves. It's a sure bet that these prices don't reflect shipping costs, so you can figure a couple hundred more. (Would be worth writing them and asking how much it would be....) Also, for a price that low, this is NOT the only one of it's kind they have in the warehouse. They have to rebuild these things by the dozens to get the price down this far. Using the cheapest of parts, too. Common practice to list the item as though it was the only one there, makes a customer want to buy it all the more. More things to think about. I pasted some of the pertinent information below.....Keep in mind also that this thing with the disintegrating pistons *would* have been covered under the warranty from this place.....though they wouldn't have made such a rookie mistake to begin with. Think about it, lemme know your thoughts after they've fermented for a bit. KO ******************** Part No. 1802 Application '79-'86 360 Premium Long Block 780.00 Basic Long Block 665.00 Long Block Core 250.00 Short Block 405.00 Short Block Assembly 515.00 Short Block Core 100.00 Cyl. Head Each 95.00 Cyl.Head Core Each 75.00 LIMITED WARRANTY Engine Short Blocks or Long Blocks remanufactured by us are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials as follows: SHORT BLOCKS-PASSENGER CARS: For Ninety (90) days from date of invoice or 4,000 miles, whichever occurs first. LONG BLOCKS-PASSENGER CARS: For Twelve (12) months from date of invoice or 12,000 miles, whichever occurs first. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- CONDITIONS OF WARRANTY 1. At the time of installation of the remanufactured engine or long block assembly,new valve lifters and new oil pump must be installed. 2. The warranty applies to the entire product sold by CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. but DOES NOT APPLY to any damage or failure caused by improper installation of engine or long block assembly, including without limitation, the air cleaner, distributor, carburetor, fuel pump, thermostat, fan belts and radiator hose. 3. Warranty DOES NOT APPLY to engines or long block assemblies which are abused, overheated, improperly broken in or used for purposes other than that for which the unit was originally designed. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- GENERAL LIMITATIONS 1. NO LABOR ALLOWANCE TO PULL OR REPLACE ENGINE OR LONG BLOCK ASSEMBLY Products thought to be defective must be delivered, out of chassis, at purchaser's expense to CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC., 11670 HARRY HINES, DALLAS, TEXAS 75229. 2. The duty of CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. is to repair the product. CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. shall have no liability for consequential or incidental damages, including without limitation, towing charges, storage charges, or damages to other parts or units not furnished by CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. as part of the engine or long block assembly. 3. CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. has no liability or responsibility for any work done on an engine or long block assembly by any person other than itself unless authorized in writing in advance by CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. - --------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----- ENFORCEMENT OF WARRANTY Engine Short Block Assembly (without cylinder heads, oil pump, oil pan and valve lifters) thought to be defective must be delivered, out of chassis, for inspection and correction to CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC., 11670 HARRY HINES, DALLAS, TEXAS 75229. Parts or workmanship covered by this warranty and found defective will be repaired at expense of CITY MOTOR SUPPLY, INC. If inspection reveals damage or failure caused by factors not covered by this warranty, there will be a charge made for all parts and labor used in repairs. THIS WARRANTY GIVES YOU SPECIFIC LEGAL RIGHTS, AND YOU MAY ALSO HAVE OTHER RIGHTS WHICH VARY FROM STATE TO STATE. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:19:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: FWD from the AMC-list: Re: Rev limit for 258 A: Just a little FYI for those that didn't know, but were curious. From: "Ron Waters" We run 4 liter rods and forged pistons in our race engines and the weak point is the 258 crank.. They break if run at 6200 much.. We run 6000 rev chips and actually build the engines around the tremendous torque curve they can give and shift about 5800.. - ---------- Ron Waters mailto:rbw-at-ClassicOne.com WSC...Performance and Restoration Parts & Service http://www.ClassicOne.com wsc-at-ClassicOne.com Team AMX Racing Vintage American Motors Race Cars http://www.ClassicOne.com teamamx-at-ClassicOne.com ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '83 Cher 4dr, '84 J10 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:52:31 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: NY, NY trip - Oct 18 - 21 Looks like I'll be in the big Apple Oct 18 through 21, attending the University of Perl. :) Will be at the Marriott East Side, without wheels... anyone out there? Know any good restaurants? :) My co-worker and I will want to catch a few sights... any suggestions. We're both country type hicks, thinking the Statue of Liberty and the Empire State building... :) BTW, we'll be going through Denver... haven't seen the layover specs yet... Last trip through had a nice visit with a fellow lister. :) BTW, in case you didn't know, Perl is a scripting language... works on all platforms and is very powerful... later, john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- HP-UX, Solaris, Linux http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/ http://wagoneers.com/UNIX/Courses.html http://wagoneers.com/pages/ComputerSurvival-101.html http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/LINUX/year-of-the-penguin.html UNIX is user-friendly; it's just picky about who its friends are. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Fwd: Did the 4.0 Head on 4.2 Block ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** From: jbnknl-at-aol.com (Jim Boucher) Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys Subject: Did the 4.0 Head on 4.2 Block Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news-at-aol.com Date: 03 Oct 2000 18:44:48 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <20001003144448.28193.00000003-at-nso-fn.aol.com> I just finished mounting a 4.0 head and stainless header (from a 94 Cherokee) on my 89 Wrangler. If anyone is wondering, it's a worthwhile mod to increase the RPM range and mileage. 4th gear acceleration is a drastic improvement. I've also got a 40 series Flowmaster. The sound is sweeeet !!! Luckily I got the head/header for free from my bro-in-law, and did the work myself. The head had 28,000 miles, so I just lapped the valves. My only expense was for gaskets and a fabricated exhaust collector with O2 bung. The only PITA was reworking the power steering bracket, as the new head moves the stock intake manifold up 1" and back 1/4". If anyone needs a 4.2 head and exh. manifold (100,000 miles)(asking price: one case of beer, my choice), I'm in Mandeville Louisiana. Jim '89 Wrangler Laredo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:44:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Fwd: Holley Pro-Jection ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** From: monosyllabicguy-at-webtv.net Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys Subject: Holley Pro-Jection Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:32:23 -0700 (MST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 9 Message-ID: <24796-39D92917-76-at-storefull-114.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRmsXG7m/25mJSAedijrrGlx5PSlQIUYHHbuDagU/G+FDjj8OKn6BzBF7o= Content-Disposition: Inline anyone out there running a pro-jection on an AMC 304 or 360??? id like to get an idea of it before i buy it. is it my only option for fuel injection on a 78??? also i live in AZ and id like to pass emissions. also did ya get more power??? better milage??? throttle response??? i have heard that it will fit on a 4bbl manifold but m not sure. right now im running an edelbrock manifold with an edelbrock performer carb. any info is very helpful and thanks. Joey ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:23:17 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: Fwd: Holley Pro-Jection > anyone out there running a pro-jection on an AMC 304 or 360??? id like > to get an idea of it before i buy it. is it my only option for fuel > injection on a 78??? also i live in AZ and id like to pass emissions. > also did ya get more power??? better milage??? throttle response??? i > have heard that it will fit on a 4bbl manifold but m not sure. right now > im running an edelbrock manifold with an edelbrock performer carb. any > info is very helpful and thanks. > Joey I'm running it on my 360. "Yes" to all of the above. It works great. Send email to RayDrou-at-quixnet.net if you want a big text file describing how I did it and how well it works. Ray Drouillard ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:25:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Jeep V6 powertrain confirmed A: I decided to ask the guy that sees these things right off the line: From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com In a message dated 10/4/00 12:19:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Carnuck-at-webtv.net writes: << Just the person to talk to! Some people seem to have a hard time believing the new 2001 Jeep Cherokee Sport is running a V6. Can you clear this up? >> It is...same basic block as the Jeep Varsity shown in January at the 2000 Detroit Auto Show. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:16:13 -0700 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: RE: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... Well, I finally replaced that front axle u-joint (passenger-side) myself. I finally found the 2" (4-lug) spindle socket I needed at JCWhitney for $10. That's about $50 cheaper than Snap-On, which is the only place I could find it. I thought for sure I would have to make one out of 2" pipe. It took a lot of hammering to get the spindle to release from the steering knuckle (rusted together pretty bad). It took a lot of hammering to get the U-Joint out too. The bearing caps were all busted up from it binding, since the bearings were non-existent. I didn't have any problems with putting it in 4 wheel. Not yet anyway (I hope I didn't just jinx myself). Just in time to put about 5,000 miles on my Wag for my trip to Baja from Washington. I'll have to scan some pics for you folks when I get back. I need to get a site up for my Woody Wagon anyways. I've had my FSJ for 4 months now it should have it's own place in cyberspace (especially considering web-dev and hosting is my profession). All in all this newbie mechanic got it replaced in 3 hours and saved myself over $300! Thank you much for all the info!!! - -----Original Message----- From: rrackley [mailto:rrackley-at-cyberhighway.net] Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 3:55 PM To: R.J. Baynum; Joe Hughes Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; 1FSJ-at-egroups.com Subject: RE: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... Joe, some years back I had someone check my wheel bearings once on an 83GW I had back then, right after that it wouldn't go into 4wd. Seems the guy didn't know, course I didn't either, that pulling out the driverside brg enough to inpsect it also pulled the short shaft away from the differential lock-up shaft and dropped out the pilot brg from in between them. That ruined the ends of both the drver side shafts and had to repalce them both, had to disassemble whole axle two different times and it never worked right after that. I'm not much of a mecghanic, can't spell it either, so maybe your luck will be better, just be careful of that thimble sized (as I remember it) pilot brg dropping out. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of R.J. Baynum Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 3:04 PM To: Joe Hughes Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; 1FSJ-at-egroups.com Subject: Re: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... Ever try putting one of those together? I did.. once.. I will never do that again! (it was a 79 wag) It's worth it... R.J. Joe Hughes wrote: > My passenger side Carden Joint has no bearings left in it. I bought the > parts at Pep Boys ($13.99). I was hoping I could change it out without > taking the axle out, but I guess that isn't the case. I'm gonna attempt it > myself tomorrow. If I can't do it tomorrow I guess I'm gonna take it in to > the local 4x4 shop (FYI: Palmer's, for those folks that are local). They > want $295 just for the labor. Ouch! I hate paying someone to work on my > FSJ. > > ne1 know of a good tranny or differential shop in the Seattle area? > > **************************** > Joe Hughes > 83 Wagoneer Ltd > Everett, WA > mailto:whomever-at-whoever.com > **************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:14:55 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: A-12 WRECK UPDATE - NEED CONFIRMATION ON RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com writes: >> 1971 Special Edition Wagoneer, the last to use the Buick V8 although this 15,000 mile 1971 currently available on eBay seems to fly in the face of all the printed documentation on Buick-powered FSJs. << AMC bought Jeep in Jan. 1970. Jeep then made the switch to the AMC V-8s (they were already using the AMC 232/258) in very early Jan. 1971. Since the model year switch-over is usually in July, Jeep had 5 months of production for the '71 model year when they were still installing the Buick 350 optional V-8 engine. Jeep continued making the ultra-rare 1414X with the Buick 350 after the AMC V-8 switch-over. Presumably to use-up the remaining 350 inventory. I find I have to be careful when reading published Jeep history. There are a lot of false, misleading and incomplete writings out there. The "all '71 FSJs had AMC V-8s" is one that shows-up often. We've had 350 powered '71 FSJ owners active on the list in the past. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 04-Oct-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:14:56 -0400 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Tailgate parts on eBay Clark Novak writes: >> AFAIK, they didn't change at all in 30 years :) The one that I wrestled out of a 78 Chero last week was the same as in my 87 GW... the picture is pretty good;if in doubt, pop the inspection cover on your tailgate and see if it looks right. The only possible sticking point could be the motor mount, but I think they used Delco motors the entire length of production. << Clark, There is a difference in tailgate electric regulators. The switch was for the '78 model year I believe. You can tell the two apart by the shape of the motors. The cylindrical motor is a Delco and was used '78 up. The rectangular motor was used pre-'78. I'm not sure who make the rectangular motor exactly. There is a difference in the wiring too. The dash switch is not wired through the tailgate's paddle switch for the rectangular motor. For the cylindrical Delco motor, power from the dash switch is routed through the paddle switch. Many of us are painfully aware of the latter's shortcoming in design. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 04-Oct-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 23:48:20 -0700 From: "Joe Hughes" Subject: fsj: My wag is intermittently dying... Ever since I cleaned the motor at the local car wash. I have this problem with the motor. It will just randomly start miss firing and the motor will die. Usually I can shift to neutral and get it started before I have to pull over, but it has been getting progressively worse. It's happening more often since it started 3 weeks ago and its getting to be harder to get started. This morning I finally couldn't even keep it started. Sometimes I can hear is firing in the exhaust manifold. Can the exhaust ignite the fuel in the manifold or is the ignition firing late? First thing I checked was the cap and rotor but they seemed dry. I went ahead and replaced them today, but that didn't fix it. I wish I could just determine if it is gas or spark that is the problem. Anyone have any good troubleshooting hints for this rookie??? **************************** Joe Hughes 83 Wagoneer Ltd Everett, WA mailto:whomever-at-whoever.com **************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 23:48:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: My wag is intermittently dying... A: Joe, take apart all your electrical connections under the hood and clean them off, and spray with electric contact spray. Joe wrote: Ever since I cleaned the motor at the local car wash. I have this problem with the motor. It will just randomly start miss firing and the motor will die. Usually I can shift to neutral and get it started before I have to pull over, but it has been getting progressively worse. It's happening more often since it started 3 weeks ago and its getting to be harder to get started. This morning I finally couldn't even keep it started. Sometimes I can hear is firing in the exhaust manifold. Can the exhaust ignite the fuel in the manifold or is the ignition firing late? First thing I checked was the cap and rotor but they seemed dry. I went ahead and replaced them today, but that didn't fix it. I wish I could just determine if it is gas or spark that is the problem. Anyone have any good troubleshooting hints for this rookie??? **************************** Joe Hughes 83 Wagoneer Ltd Everett, WA mailto:whomever-at-whoever.com **************************** ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 02:27:06 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... Good Job Joe! R.J. Joe Hughes wrote: > Well, I finally replaced that front axle u-joint (passenger-side) myself. I > finally found the 2" (4-lug) spindle socket I needed at JCWhitney for $10. > That's about $50 cheaper than Snap-On, which is the only place I could find > it. I thought for sure I would have to make one out of 2" pipe. > > It took a lot of hammering to get the spindle to release from the steering > knuckle (rusted together pretty bad). It took a lot of hammering to get the > U-Joint out too. The bearing caps were all busted up from it binding, since > the bearings were non-existent. > > I didn't have any problems with putting it in 4 wheel. Not yet anyway (I > hope I didn't just jinx myself). Just in time to put about 5,000 miles on > my Wag for my trip to Baja from Washington. > > I'll have to scan some pics for you folks when I get back. I need to get a > site up for my Woody Wagon anyways. I've had my FSJ for 4 months now it > should have it's own place in cyberspace (especially considering web-dev and > hosting is my profession). > > All in all this newbie mechanic got it replaced in 3 hours and saved myself > over $300! Thank you much for all the info!!! > > -----Original Message----- > From: rrackley [mailto:rrackley-at-cyberhighway.net] > Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 3:55 PM > To: R.J. Baynum; Joe Hughes > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; 1FSJ-at-egroups.com > Subject: RE: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... > > Joe, some years back I had someone check my wheel bearings once on an 83GW I > had back then, right after that it wouldn't go into 4wd. Seems the guy > didn't know, course I didn't either, that pulling out the driverside brg > enough to inpsect it also pulled the short shaft away from the differential > lock-up shaft and dropped out the pilot brg from in between them. That > ruined the ends of both the drver side shafts and had to repalce them both, > had to disassemble whole axle two different times and it never worked right > after that. I'm not much of a mecghanic, can't spell it either, so maybe > your luck will be better, just be careful of that thimble sized (as I > remember it) pilot brg dropping out. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > R.J. Baynum > Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2000 3:04 PM > To: Joe Hughes > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; 1FSJ-at-egroups.com > Subject: Re: fsj: I need my axle joints replaced.... > > Ever try putting one of those together? > I did.. once.. I will never do that again! > (it was a 79 wag) > It's worth it... > R.J. > > Joe Hughes wrote: > > > My passenger side Carden Joint has no bearings left in it. I bought the > > parts at Pep Boys ($13.99). I was hoping I could change it out without > > taking the axle out, but I guess that isn't the case. I'm gonna attempt > it > > myself tomorrow. If I can't do it tomorrow I guess I'm gonna take it in > to > > the local 4x4 shop (FYI: Palmer's, for those folks that are local). They > > want $295 just for the labor. Ouch! I hate paying someone to work on my > > FSJ. > > > > ne1 know of a good tranny or differential shop in the Seattle area? > > > > **************************** > > Joe Hughes > > 83 Wagoneer Ltd > > Everett, WA > > mailto:whomever-at-whoever.com > > **************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1054 **************************