From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 16 08:43:19 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, October 16 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1068 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Still waiting on seats fsj: Re: New to list fsj: Re: [JeepsOnline] I need some suggestions, please fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer fsj: name calling... fsj: seat swap (attempt) Re: fsj: Re: New to list fsj: Re: Help fsj: stickers on ebay again... :) fsj: Re: [1FSJ] stickers on ebay again... :) fsj: filler follies... fsj: Re: Re: QT Info FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:32:29 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Still waiting on seats Worked on the Rez Runner yesterday. I noticed my gas return line was looking cracked and needed replaced. Turns out it had the factory crimp strap on it. I'm probably lucky I haven't had a fire under the hood. So I replaced that and played with the settings on the choke after reading my technical services manual. I think I've got the problem solved but time will tell. After playing with the carb, now I think my choke was coming off too soon. Now it stays on a little longer. May cost me in gas mileage but I don't want the Rez dying with my wife or daughter driving. Now if my new Steelhorse seats would just come in, I'm still waiting. JC Whipme said that the seats were sent and should arrive anytime, what do you want to bet they come in on Monday just to spite me? We had a beautiful weekend for this kind of work. I'll try to remember to take pictures for those of you interested. - --Vince '81 Wag ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:43:41 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: New to list Let me start by saying that you need to talk to Joe Schaefer, but he's not due home for a few weeks I think. He's got a '73 J3000. Seems like the original paint was even the same as yours, although somebody repainted it green. Maybe John can tell us if Joe is on this list? I can't keep that stuff straight anymore. It is fairly well documented that CJ buckets can be installed in a Wagoneer or Cherokee by using bucket seat brackets from a FSJ. I don't know if J-trucks ever had buckets. I also don't know if the cab length of the J-truck might be an inch or two too short for the buckets to work well. Quoting a post from Bill Kelsey: "...seats from a Ford Escort, 2-door, from 1984 and 1988 (and presumably all the years in between, and perhaps a a few years before and after) will bolt directly onto the FSJ seat rails. The 2-door Escort is required to get the seats with a release allowing the seatback to fold forward (so folks can climb into the backseat of your Cherokee). These will be highback seats, and may have a rake adjustment (seatback angle adjustment)" Here again you'll need the bucket seat brackets from a FSJ. I've heard of people using Lincoln and Volvo seats for the advantages they offer. Basically any seat will work if you have the ability to build the necessary brackets. As for brakes... I know of no source for 5 bolt, 12" drums. I believe there is no reasonable way to convert to discs on a 5 bolt rear axle. I think the easy solution might be a swapping to a 6 or 8 bolt, Dana 60 axle, but don't take my word for it. Dana axle models can be identified by the numbers cast into the web of the differential housing. I think your Dana 44 front axle is likely of closed-knuckle design. If that's the case, there's pretty much no way to put disc brakes on it -- easily. If it's open-knuckle then it should be do-able. I have an open-knuckle Dana 44 waiting to go under my Wagoneer this winter. I plan to keep my 5 bolt wheel pattern by swapping to Ford wheel hubs. The details of that swap are pretty involved and I quit trying to carry them around in my head, so I'll save that for another time. You are unlikely to ever want that information anyway since the obvious swap for you is to go to 6 or 8 bolt axles. Basically if you swap both axles to later 6 or 8 bolt design, your problems are solved. There is no way Wrangler drums would either fit or provide adequate stopping power for your truck. If such a thing were possible you'd be better off with 11" Wagoneer drums anyway. Hope this helps. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco In a message dated 10/15/00 5:34:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:23:37 -0700 > From: "allyoop" > > I'm working on a '73 J4000 Townside with 360 4V and Quadratrack. > (since color's been on the list recently, I'll mention that it wears > original Daisy Yellow (F-4) on the lower panels, with Snow White (A-1) > above. > Paint's good enough to try keeping, except in the bed. > > The body's surprisingly straight for a 27-year-old truck, and the motor runs > well > (Pertronix point replacment helped) but the > interior got wet when the windows were out, so the seat's mildewed. > > I tried to install a pair of buckets, but quickly learned that big transfer > case > hump in the floor made it impossible to put the seat I found in the > passenger > side -- the seat base was too wide, and ran into the hump. > > Anybody have a solution, or a source for Wagoneer or other seats that would > fit? > > Also I would appreciate suggestions regarding the 12 inch brakes (five lug). > I understand > it's almost impossible to get replacement drums, but they can be replaced > with > disks -- maybe from a Wrangler. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:15:04 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Re: [JeepsOnline] I need some suggestions, please Okay this is my area... . I belong to several FSJ List online.. ( Full size Jeep) There is one at http:www.wagoneers.com ( He also has other lists for... CJ, XJ and a Mercedes Diesel lists.) My personal list here at E Groups Are.... 1FSJ-at- egroups, and,.. FSJ_SE-at-egroups ( for the South East U.S.A.) There is one online web site /List in Colorado as well.. But the web site escapes right now.. I am sure one of the other guys on the list could give it to you. There is one also.. ( Shudder..),.. at http://www.off-road.com if you do a search on the net you might find it.. however the management there , we (the group) are not too happy with..) anyway,, I will CC this to the other lists.. please mention where you live as well as the details Also you might want to consider E Bay.com But stick to the lists.. because these great guys are Jeep lovers.. Hope that helps.. R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Huntsville Alabama Formerly of.... Spokane Wa. and a 79 Jeep Wag GladesRidge-at-aol.com wrote: > Hi, > > I have a 1970 Jeep Wagoneer in great shape that I acquired from a > friend. I'm interested in selling it but don't want to advertise in > the local "Auto Trader" type mags. I want to attract people who are > truly interested in this vehicle for restoration, etc. If anyone > knows of any appropriate magazines or onlines sites for advertising, > I'd greatly appreciate it. I'm in Miami and it seems like classic > vehicles are not such a big item here, so I may have advertise in a > broader area to get a fair price. > > Thanks, > > Joe > > GladesRidge-at-aol.com > > -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> > Create your business web site your way now at Bigstep.com. > It's the fast, easy way to get online, to promote your business, > and to sell your products and services. Try Bigstep.com now. > http://click.egroups.com/1/9183/14/_/529605/_/971614835/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> > > There's only ONE, JEEP ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:28:19 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, Mark and Gina Rae Ketchum wrote: >-->Nice site! Can you tell me if a 1.5 Din CD player will fit in a '77 Jeep >-->Wagoneer? I want to send it to my bro for Christmas, but want to make sure >-->it fits. >--> >-->Thank you, Mark Not sure what you're referring to, if it's the kind of Stereo that doesn't have the knobs / shafts coming out it won't work unless you cut the dash opening... You need to get a unit that fits in the old style shafts opening... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:22:07 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer If you Go to http://www.crutchfield.com and tell them the make / and model they can tell you if it will fit or not.. R.J. john wrote: > On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, Mark and Gina Rae Ketchum wrote: > > >-->Nice site! Can you tell me if a 1.5 Din CD player will fit in a '77 Jeep > >-->Wagoneer? I want to send it to my bro for Christmas, but want to make sure > >-->it fits. > >--> > >-->Thank you, Mark > > Not sure what you're referring to, if it's the kind of Stereo that doesn't > have the knobs / shafts coming out it won't work unless you cut the dash > opening... You need to get a unit that fits in the old style shafts opening... > > john > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:46:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: name calling... some of the best names I've heard have been assigned to either an FSJ or a Diesel Benz: Rufus the Jeep Dog is still one of my favorites. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:50:52 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: seat swap (attempt) I'm trying to get my power seats out of an '85 GWag to replace the bench seat in a '74 Wag. The only problem so far: I got the outer two bolts out of the driver's seat (well, the nut off the front one and the bolt out of the rear one since that's how they were in...), but the inner two are just turning the entire bolt (both of them have the nuts on top). I don't see how to get to three of the bolts from the bottom -- one of the outside ones appears to be under a piece of structural bracing attached to the frame, I _might_ see the forward inner one underneath (but that's very difficult to get to where the '85 is sitting, immobile), and the rear inner one appears to be above the gas tank! Is there any reasonable way to get these off and out? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Programmer: (n.) A machine for converting pizza, caffeine, and sugar into machine code. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:42:04 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: New to list A: Joe has been lurking on the 1fsj list (I'm cc'ing him just in case). Yes, Jtrucks came factory with buckets (Blackie came with the Laredo package and black seats.) The upper 1/2 of the arm rest broke off before I got it. I'm replacing it with the center console out of Elmo anyway, but you need the 2dr Cherokee seats, because they tilt forward. Ben wrote: Let me start by saying that you need to talk to Joe Schaefer, but he's not due home for a few weeks I think. He's got a '73 J3000. Seems like the original paint was even the same as yours, although somebody repainted it green. Maybe John can tell us if Joe is on this list? I can't keep that stuff straight anymore. It is fairly well documented that CJ buckets can be installed in a Wagoneer or Cherokee by using bucket seat brackets from a FSJ. I don't know if J-trucks ever had buckets. I also don't know if the cab length of the J-truck might be an inch or two too short for the buckets to work well. Quoting a post from Bill Kelsey: "...seats from a Ford Escort, 2-door, from 1984 and 1988 (and presumably all the years in between, and perhaps a a few years before and after) will bolt directly onto the FSJ seat rails. The 2-door Escort is required to get the seats with a release allowing the seatback to fold forward (so folks can climb into the backseat of your Cherokee). These will be highback seats, and may have a rake adjustment (seatback angle adjustment)" Here again you'll need the bucket seat brackets from a FSJ. I've heard of people using Lincoln and Volvo seats for the advantages they offer. Basically any seat will work if you have the ability to build the necessary brackets. As for brakes... I know of no source for 5 bolt, 12" drums. I believe there is no reasonable way to convert to discs on a 5 bolt rear axle. I think the easy solution might be a swapping to a 6 or 8 bolt, Dana 60 axle, but don't take my word for it. Dana axle models can be identified by the numbers cast into the web of the differential housing. I think your Dana 44 front axle is likely of closed-knuckle design. If that's the case, there's pretty much no way to put disc brakes on it -- easily. If it's open-knuckle then it should be do-able. I have an open-knuckle Dana 44 waiting to go under my Wagoneer this winter. I plan to keep my 5 bolt wheel pattern by swapping to Ford wheel hubs. The details of that swap are pretty involved and I quit trying to carry them around in my head, so I'll save that for another time. You are unlikely to ever want that information anyway since the obvious swap for you is to go to 6 or 8 bolt axles. Basically if you swap both axles to later 6 or 8 bolt design, your problems are solved. There is no way Wrangler drums would either fit or provide adequate stopping power for your truck. If such a thing were possible you'd be better off with 11" Wagoneer drums anyway. Hope this helps. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:24:18 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Help At 06:41 PM 10/15/00 -0400, JA7PAET-at-aol.com wrote: >I am looking for a source for parts for my 1981 Wagoneer Ltd. It looks just >like yours even to the color. I need sunroof parts, electric mirror switch, >weather stripping, etc. Can you tell me where I might find such a source. > >Also, can you tell me an address where I can join a jeep club or contact >other jeep owners. Also, is there a restoration book for wagoneers? Thanks >for any help you can give me. parts may still be available at the dealer for 79/80 and up. the sunroof parts can be had through a sunroof installer, I went to get a quote for a different rig, the installer looked at Old Blue and said what brand it was... :) they know. wrecking yards for other parts, Olympic 4x4 in Snohomish has a few... the FSJ list on digest.net is another source for help. I've been gathering data for a book for years... once of these days I'm gonna focus on it and do it... of course it's taken me dang near a month to install the aux fuel tank in Superdawg... I'm making some progress... might even have it in today yet. :) I sold Old Blue a couple years ago... I'm drooling over a 90 GW I found... need to sell my 83 Mercedes 300SD first... wife is gonna hurt me if I don't knock it off already... ;) well, back outside to work on my '83 J10 Stepside, ttyl, john ====================================================================================== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/john/book-info.html http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ====================================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:38:29 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: stickers on ebay again... :) I think I'm just gonna keep rotating them up on ebay, seems to work pretty well. sold 9 sets last time... plenty from where they came from... I bought way too many. Had to... I spent way too much getting them made... my wife isn't real happy about that... :} john - -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- An article in the Seattle Washington Post-Intelligencer dealt with accidental deaths caused by physicians (based on research by Laura Key) Number of physicians in the US - 700,000 Accidental deaths caused /year - 120,000 Accidental deaths/physician = 0.171 based on readily available statistics found on the internet: Number of gun owners in the US = 80,000,000 Number of accidental gun deaths/year (all age groups) = 1,500 Accidental deaths/gun owner = 0.0000188 THEREFORE, one may derive the following: That Doctors are approximately 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners. - -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/GunControl-the-proven-record.html - -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:41:09 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] stickers on ebay again... :) you'll sell them don't worry.. Tell Becky I said so.. I hope you mention the lists? And that would include "1FSJ" too? R.J. john wrote: > I think I'm just gonna keep rotating them up on ebay, > seems to work pretty well. sold 9 sets last time... > > plenty from where they came from... I bought way too many. Had > to... I spent way too much getting them made... my wife isn't real > happy about that... :} > > john > -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- > An article in the Seattle Washington Post-Intelligencer dealt with > accidental deaths caused by physicians (based on research by Laura Key) > > Number of physicians in the US - 700,000 > Accidental deaths caused /year - 120,000 > Accidental deaths/physician = 0.171 > > based on readily available statistics found on the internet: > > Number of gun owners in the US = 80,000,000 > Number of accidental gun deaths/year (all age groups) = 1,500 > Accidental deaths/gun owner = 0.0000188 > > THEREFORE, > one may derive the following: > > That Doctors are approximately 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners. > > -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- > http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/History/GunControl-the-proven-record.html > -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- -------------- > > To Subscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-subscribe-at-egroups.com > To Unsubscribe send an email to: 1FSJ-unsubscribe-at-egroups.com Visit Our homepage: http://www.egroups.com/group/1FSJ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:50:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: filler follies... http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Fuel-Carbs/AuxTank-J10/Filler-connections-Stepside/ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:17:11 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Re: QT Info you need to talk to Fredric... he's got a deal for you on a Wide-Trac Waggy in Portland, Oregon. :) The problem with trying to make a wide trac out of a four door is the rear fender flares. The second problem will be finding the axles that match your NP229. You'll need 80 and up axles from either a WT chero or a j10. :) john At 10:29 AM 10/16/00 -0400, calligraphy-at-mail.saintmail.net wrote: >John, > >Good call, it is indeed a 229, which from what I can find is the desirable >one (?). > >My "vision" (long-term) is to turn this Wagon into a Wide-Track, including >the axles and flares. I realize this won't be a weekend job, but I'm >pretty good at improvising, and I've got metal-working experience, so I >think it would be a good project. The worlds only FSJ "Wagoneer Chief" >(vs Cherokee). I may be biting off more than I can chew, but we'll see. > >What would be my best source for tech info from other wrench turners? I'm >curious about axle swaps, drivetrain upgrades (i.e. overdrive tranny >and/or front hubs), etc? > >Thanks for all your help...it's been a LONG time since I had a "toy" to >play with! > >Bless ya man....keep sowing seed! > >Tom > > > > > > > I don't think the Quadratrac was available in '87. > > > > It's most likely a Selectrac, so it's already a part time/full time setup. > > look at the plate underneath on the back of the transfer case. It's gonna > > be an NP229 or NP228. > > > > Don't know of anyone that's accepted Christ because of my pages... but I > > figure planting seeds is better than planting weeds... :) I do tend to > > draw out folks in despair, or on the fringe. I get people who are > depressed, > > or people who are totally radically opposed to christianity. Pretty > clueless > > sometimes... > > > > The main benefit is others are encouraged to stand for Christ and have > their > > faith strengthened, so from that standpoint it's wonderful. :) > > > > Parts for the New Process transfer cases aren't too bad... plenty out > there. > > > > john > > ============================================================= > > The just shall live by Faith... > > Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... > > Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... > > Le Juste vivra par la foi... > > > > Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 > > > > ============================================================= > > > > Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, > > the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 > > > > ============================================================= > > john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com > > http://www.freegift.net/ > > http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE > > ============================================================= > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >FREE Christian Email >SaintMail.NET - The Internet Address Of Christians >"...when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day." >http://www.saintmail.net > - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1068 **************************