From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Oct 18 14:51:23 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, October 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1071 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Anyone got an AMC V8 diagram on the net? fsj: Re: progress, at last... fsj: Re: Re: progress, at last... fsj: Re: 1988 Jeep J Pickups fsj: Re: progress, at last... fsj: going to Cedar Rapids, Iowa... fsj: Re: Re: 1988 Jeep J Pickups fsj: Re: Re: progress, at last... fsj: RE: Jeep diesels fsj: Re: engine cleaners Re: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: engine cleaners Re: fsj: WE DIDN'T FIND IT (A-12 UPDATE) BUT WE'RE GOING BACK fsj: Parts for '81 FSJ fsj: RE: Parts for '81 FSJ FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:26:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Anyone got an AMC V8 diagram on the net? A guy on allexperts took his timing chain out, and doesn't know how it goes together now ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:43:45 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: progress, at last... > I stopped at Airport Welding in Snohomish on the > way home and got some pipe bent... only used one piece, > but I think it's together... going to do the fuel solenoid > now, starting to rain, windy... gotta hurry so I don't > have to lay in mud... > > john OK, that's it! For violating Kim Smith's Pet Grammatical Peeve, you get Grammar Lesson #1! Unless you are a hen you do not LAY in the mud, you LIE in the mud. ;-) Remember: "Chickens LAY eggs.", transitive verb, the chicken does something TO the egg. "Cows LIE in the grass.", intransitive verb, the cow does something herself. PS Yes, my grandmother WAS an English teacher! ************************************************************************* Kim Smith 1980 Wagoneer "Joe", 360,2v,727,219 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:56:45 -0400 From: "Ray Drouillard" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: progress, at last... > > I stopped at Airport Welding in Snohomish on the > > way home and got some pipe bent... only used one piece, > > but I think it's together... going to do the fuel solenoid > > now, starting to rain, windy... gotta hurry so I don't > > have to lay in mud... > > > > john > > OK, that's it! For violating Kim Smith's Pet Grammatical Peeve, you get Grammar > Lesson #1! > Unless you are a hen you do not LAY in the mud, you LIE in the mud. ;-) > Remember: > > "Chickens LAY eggs.", transitive verb, the chicken does something TO the egg. > "Cows LIE in the grass.", intransitive verb, the cow does something herself. > > PS Yes, my grandmother WAS an English teacher! So... to get LAID, you have to be an egg? Speaking of laying, or lying, or whatever... my wife is in bed, so I had better go lie in bed, or get laid in bed, or something like that. Ray ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:31:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1988 Jeep J Pickups On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Mike Polkki wrote: >-->I am A High School Student in Ishpeming, MI I drive a 1986 Dodge Power >-->Ram and My dad drives a 1989 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer. I recently came >-->across the owner's literature for the school district's 1988 Jeep J-20 >-->Plow Truck ordered through an AMC then later Jeep/eagle dealer here in >-->Ishpeming. All Literature stated 1988 and a Dodge Ram Pickup Warrenty >-->booklet was included with "jeep pickup" stamped on it, the Owners manual >-->had a pentastar on the cover but the Amark every where else. the VIN >-->states a 1987 Jeep J- 20 but it is registered an 88 and was built in >-->6/88 and put in to servace on August 27 1988. This vehicle is for sale >-->on bids now but after buying my truck I cant afford it. I Just thought >-->you might find this information useful. Mike, Awesome information! Thanx. You've confirmed what I suspected all along. That the few 1988 J20's I've heard of where technically late 1987's registered as 1988. Excellent information. Any idea on what the bidding will go for? The J20 has the beefier suspension, 8 lug rims, etc. If you have a digital camera I would love to see the data plates, vin, make dates and general pictures of that rig. Good luck with your Dogde. I had an '85 W250 for about 1/2 a year. Is yours a 4x4? My boss sold his 90 xj for a Durango... the traitor. ;) I may be hiring a guy with a red dodge dakota... I'm outnumbered... well, I still own more jeeps than they have dogdes though... :) You could sell th edodgte you know... ;) Seriously the dodge will be more reliable overall with less problems getting parts, but it's no where near the truck off-road or for overall durability and strength... and when I say reliable, I mean you'll have less little annoying things... overall the Jeep is very reliable in the sense it'll get you home pretty much no matter what. :) Have you seen the pictures of my son's '67 J3000? He's almost 18 and a Senior... I've tried to talk him into getting an XJ for the gas mileage, he won't hear any of it. ;) I'm sharing this find with the list... Well, back outside, I'm almost done installing my auxillary fuel tank in my '83 J10 Stepside... still wearing my srugical gloves... (typing is more intresting that way... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:34:18 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: progress, at last... On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Kim Smith wrote: >-->> I stopped at Airport Welding in Snohomish on the >-->> way home and got some pipe bent... only used one piece, >-->> but I think it's together... going to do the fuel solenoid >-->> now, starting to rain, windy... gotta hurry so I don't >-->> have to lay in mud... >-->> >-->> john >--> >-->OK, that's it! For violating Kim Smith's Pet Grammatical Peeve, you get Grammar >-->Lesson #1! >-->Unless you are a hen you do not LAY in the mud, you LIE in the mud. ;-) but I CAN'T LIE, I'm a republican.... ;) >-->Remember: >--> >-->"Chickens LAY eggs.", transitive verb, the chicken does something TO the egg. >-->"Cows LIE in the grass.", intransitive verb, the cow does something herself. >--> >-->PS Yes, my grandmother WAS an English teacher! I'll have dig out my textbooks to see if I really made a goof... ;) I used to teach TECHNICAL writing... we didn't worry none if you used in or out type verbs, so long as you be understood. before I start laughing too hard I'm gonna hang up now... ;) john >-->************************************************************************* >-->Kim Smith >-->1980 Wagoneer "Joe", 360,2v,727,219 >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:45:26 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: going to Cedar Rapids, Iowa... well, the trip to NYC was cancelled, but now I'm going to Cedar Rapids, Iowa. :( (all these exotic trips I get... ;) We're trying to finish up a major project before my co-worker departs for his new job... we lucked out and get to go first class on the way there. :) the one bright spot... (pray for me on the flip side, I'll be coming back on an airbus... my first such experience... remember, I worked for boeing for 11 years... ;) We'll be flying through Denver on the way to CR on Sunday... If you're in the Denver or Cedar Rapids area get in touch with me. :) I'll be flying back to Seattle by way of Chicago Tuesday afternoon... not much of a layover or I'd try to meet up with folks in Chi town... I'll have to get one of the engineers in Cedar Rapids on the XJ list, he just bought a 98 or 99. :) His sister bought a new 2000 or 2001 xj... There's got to be some XJ, Diesel Benz and FSJ folks out there somewhere, right? :) We should have a little time in the evening... :) It's gonna be a crazy two weeks... I'm relaxing this evening by finishing up the auxillary tank install on Superdawg. :) fuel lines done, wiring is next... He may actually move under his own power again... ;) BTW, the 300SD didn't sell on ebay, I may end up keeping it since I can't afford to build the garage anyway... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:08:03 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: 1988 Jeep J Pickups Hey, UP Michigander! We had a dear friend of the family who taught school in Detroit who's family were Cornish miners from Ishpeming. Small world. ************************************************************************* Kim Smith 1980 Wagoneer "Joe", 360,2v,727,219 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Mike Polkki" Cc: "full size jeep list" ; "Rj's FSJ list" <1FSJ-at-egroups.com>; "xj-list" Sent: 17 October, 2000 20:31 Subject: fsj: Re: 1988 Jeep J Pickups > On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Mike Polkki wrote: > > >-->I am A High School Student in Ishpeming, MI I drive a 1986 Dodge Power > >-->Ram and My dad drives a 1989 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer. I recently came > >-->across the owner's literature for the school district's 1988 Jeep J-20 > >-->Plow Truck ordered through an AMC then later Jeep/eagle dealer here in > >-->Ishpeming. All Literature stated 1988 and a Dodge Ram Pickup Warrenty > >-->booklet was included with "jeep pickup" stamped on it, the Owners manual > >-->had a pentastar on the cover but the Amark every where else. the VIN > >-->states a 1987 Jeep J- 20 but it is registered an 88 and was built in > >-->6/88 and put in to servace on August 27 1988. This vehicle is for sale > >-->on bids now but after buying my truck I cant afford it. I Just thought > >-->you might find this information useful. > > Mike, > > Awesome information! Thanx. You've confirmed what I suspected all > along. That the few 1988 J20's I've heard of where technically late > 1987's registered as 1988. Excellent information. > > Any idea on what the bidding will go for? The J20 has the beefier > suspension, 8 lug rims, etc. > > If you have a digital camera I would love to see the data plates, > vin, make dates and general pictures of that rig. > > Good luck with your Dogde. I had an '85 W250 for about 1/2 a year. > Is yours a 4x4? My boss sold his 90 xj for a Durango... the traitor. ;) > I may be hiring a guy with a red dodge dakota... I'm outnumbered... well, > I still own more jeeps than they have dogdes though... :) > > You could sell th edodgte you > know... ;) Seriously the dodge will be more reliable overall with > less problems getting parts, but it's no where near the truck off-road > or for overall durability and strength... and when I say reliable, I > mean you'll have less little annoying things... overall the Jeep is very > reliable in the sense it'll get you home pretty much no matter what. :) > > Have you seen the pictures of my son's '67 J3000? He's almost 18 > and a Senior... I've tried to talk him into getting an XJ for the > gas mileage, he won't hear any of it. ;) > > I'm sharing this find with the list... > > Well, back outside, I'm almost done installing my auxillary fuel > tank in my '83 J10 Stepside... still wearing my srugical gloves... > (typing is more intresting that way... ;) > > john > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:34:59 -0700 From: "Karl-at-Nookit.com" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: progress, at last... Well, John, technically speaking, you really don't get to lie or lay in the mud when working on a vehicle. You sorta have to squirm, wiggle and shimmy. Technical Jeep Grammar Lesson #1 Hens LAY. Cows LIE. Mechanics WALLOW. and cuss. hehe Karl - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Kim Smith" Cc: "full size jeep list" Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 7:34 PM Subject: fsj: Re: progress, at last... > On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Kim Smith wrote: > > >-->> I stopped at Airport Welding in Snohomish on the > >-->> way home and got some pipe bent... only used one piece, > >-->> but I think it's together... going to do the fuel solenoid > >-->> now, starting to rain, windy... gotta hurry so I don't > >-->> have to lay in mud... > >-->> > >-->> john > >--> > >-->OK, that's it! For violating Kim Smith's Pet Grammatical Peeve, you get Grammar > >-->Lesson #1! > >-->Unless you are a hen you do not LAY in the mud, you LIE in the mud. ;-) > > but I CAN'T LIE, I'm a republican.... ;) > > >-->Remember: > >--> > >-->"Chickens LAY eggs.", transitive verb, the chicken does something TO the egg. > >-->"Cows LIE in the grass.", intransitive verb, the cow does something herself. > >--> > >-->PS Yes, my grandmother WAS an English teacher! > > I'll have dig out my textbooks to see if I really made a goof... ;) > I used to teach TECHNICAL writing... we didn't worry none if you used > in or out type verbs, so long as you be understood. > > before I start laughing too hard I'm gonna hang up now... ;) > > john > > >-->************************************************************************ * > >-->Kim Smith > >-->1980 Wagoneer "Joe", 360,2v,727,219 > >--> > >--> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com > don't leave life without Jesus, please... > Snohomish, Washington USA > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:13:05 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Jeep diesels thanx, I'll pass this along to the Jeep lists... it is too far for me. :) john At 08:25 AM 10/18/00 -0500, CHASTEEN, HAYDEN wrote: >The 86 Cherokee Turbo Diesel >is in Dallas, Texas. He wants $800 for it. I don't have the number >with me but you can access the Dallas Morning News online and check the ad >out. It is under Jeeps and is with a Grand Cherokee in the ad also. Hayden > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:24 PM >To: CHASTEEN, HAYDEN >Subject: RE: Jeep diesels - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:29:02 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: engine cleaners I've heard arguments both ways on this issue. I've also broken an engine using a cleaner, actually not the entire engine, just the camshaft. :) The cleaner basically eliminated lubrication and the cam follower broke and... I'll forward this to a couple of automotive lists and they can reply to you directly. I personally quit using engine cleaners because I really didn't notice much of a difference. The stuff isn't cheap. What works really well is just to switch over to a good synthethic oil like amsoil and change your filters often the first few months. The synthetics tend to clean out all the old nasty stuff quite nicely without creating leaks. Amsoil has seal swellers built in to prevent leaks. I can't speak for other brands, don't know, but I'd guess they'd have similar formulations. The deposits that clog up leaks in external gaskets like oil pans, valve covers and transmission pans are unlikely to be affected by an engine cleaner. Anything that "plugged" up from a leak wouldn't have had much pressure anyway. Some cleaners may be harmful, like what happened to my camshaft. Read the instructions carefully. If it says five minutes, that's it. I wouldn't run it under any kind of load or for any duration. An old trick is to put one quart of Diesel fuel or Kerosene in your crankcase a couple hundred miles before an oil change. It'll clean things out while maintaining lubrication... but again, don't stress the engine, it will not have the same shear strength. The best thing you can do for an engine is to have regular oil changes. Also, I've found pennzoil and valvoline to really coke up an engine... lots of varnish and deposits. I've also heard of sludge problems with Castrol. A good mechanic friend recommends Kendall. I stick with http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL products mainly because of the extended drain and thermal characteristics... later, john At 02:50 PM 10/17/00 -0400, GeeQ46-at-aol.com wrote: >I need help with a question. Im 17 and i bought this z-max (www.gozmax.com) >for cleaning carbon and other deposits from your engine and transmition. I >was wondering becuase I have heard that on older engines (mine is a '94 Jeep >Cherokee with 103,000 miles on the engine) these carbon deposits sometimes >are filling in spots that would normally be leaking. My dad has told me that >he has heard from different sources including mechanics that if these types >of internal engine cleaner are used on older engines, sometimes you can form >leaks because of the deposits that were filling in spaces are gone and the >engine and transmission begin to leak. What is your knowledge of this >phenomina and could you direct me to someone who would have a specialized >knoweldge of this information. > >Thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:28:22 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer I put a Radio Shack radio in my '81 Wagoneer without any trouble at all. Pushing 100 watt speakers it sounds pretty good without a huge money investment. - --Vince In a message dated 10/16/00 12:53:34 PM Central Daylight Time, Brazzadog-at-aol.com writes: > DIN means no knobs, so cutting will be required. About a year ago I had to > bring myself up to speed when I put a new radio in my '71. It's been almost > > 20 years since I'd messed with that chore. It turns out that there were 3 > styles of "knob" radios, each with different sized dash holes and knob > spacing. The best I could do was a Optimus from Radio Shack with adjustable > > spacing between the knob shafts. I still had to do minor cutting to get it > in. A newer vehicle might not need any cutting. > > Ben Williams > '71 Wagoneer > '78 F-250 4x4 > '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:45:29 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: engine cleaners I have to say something about this because I had a bad experience. I switched my van over to Mobil 1 synthetic and it took a few hundred miles until the pan gasket became soft and started squirting out and I got leaks all over. Shop wanted $600 to install a new pan gasket. I managed to do the job myself over a weekend but I don't think I'll use any synthetic oil again. It just seems to wipe out older gaskets. In my experience, if you change oil regularly and avoid overheating and such, you will get high mileage out of most motors. I have to put a plug in for the FSJ's though, my '81 Wag 360 was one of the most abused crankcases I've ever seen regarding oil changes. I ran some cleaners through it after I saw the crud in the pan. It has over 145,000 miles and I'm only now starting to notice some excess oil in the air cleaner. I guess my rings are starting to wear too much. Those AMC motors are pretty darn good. I've never had a Ford or Chevy motor last like this AMC 360. - --Vince '81 Wag In a message dated 10/18/00 10:29:58 AM Central Daylight Time, john-at-virtual-cafe.com writes: > I personally quit using engine cleaners because I really didn't notice much > of a difference. The stuff isn't cheap. What works really well is just to > switch over to a good synthethic oil like amsoil and change your filters > often > the first few months. The synthetics tend to clean out all the old nasty > stuff > quite nicely without creating leaks. Amsoil has seal swellers built in to > prevent leaks. I can't speak for other brands, don't know, but I'd guess > they'd > have similar formulations. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:28:21 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: WE DIDN'T FIND IT (A-12 UPDATE) BUT WE'RE GOING BACK Richard: I'm in the Chicago area but if I was closer, I would be there! I like to hike and everyone loves a treasure hunt! In November, you may run into a little weather which makes things even more interesting for an FSJ. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer under construction In a message dated 10/16/00 11:48:31 AM Central Daylight Time, RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com writes: > was a great trip but our first attempt to locate the remains of Walt Ray's > A-12 that crashed in 1967 was unsuccessful but was the start of what we all > hope will ultimately be unsuccessful. We were able to drive about three > miles > up the marked Jeep trail into Cottonwood Canyon in an attempt to reach > Cougar > Canyon where based on Tom Mahood's web site, we calculated the remains to > lie. This canyon was between the ghost towns of Carp and Elgin, NV. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:28:23 EDT From: UrbFarmer-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Parts for '81 FSJ I have an '81 and the Jeep dealership I go to looks the parts up on a microfisch reader. Also, they are a Crown dealer and Crown has a lot of aftermarket parts. I think Jeep still sells weatherstripping, window rails and seals, locks, and various other stuff. There must be a way for your dealership's parts desk to get stuff you need to order parts. - --Vince '81 Wag, 360, np219, tf727, stock motorcraft 2150 carb (with altitude compensator). On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 JA7PAET-at-aol.com wrote: >-->Thanks for you reply. My problem is I live in a small town in Montana and >-->parts are hard to come by for anything. I work for the Jeep dealership in >-->town and they don't have parts listed for the '81. Junk yards are few and >-->have nothing I need. I did find web site that listed places to call. Maybe >-->can find something thru them. Good luck and thanks again. hey, there's a few folks out there with FSJ's. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:23:32 -0700 From: "Mike D'Ambrogia" Subject: fsj: RE: Parts for '81 FSJ Specialty Jeep Parts (800-504-5337) sells all that stuff, all the way back to '69 on the weatherstripping (thank god...) or, try: the jeepster man 732-458-3966 738 ramtown-greenville howell, nj 07731 weatherstripping part numbers are in the ifsja section of off-road.com at http://www.off-road.com/~ifsja/tech/body/wxstrip.htm mike > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > UrbFarmer-at-aol.com > Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 10:28 AM > To: fsj-at-digest.net; JA7PAET-at-aol.com > Subject: fsj: Parts for '81 FSJ > > > I have an '81 and the Jeep dealership I go to looks the parts up on a > microfisch reader. Also, they are a Crown dealer and Crown has a lot of > aftermarket parts. I think Jeep still sells weatherstripping, > window rails > and seals, locks, and various other stuff. There must be a way for your > dealership's parts desk to get stuff you need to order parts. > --Vince > '81 Wag, 360, np219, tf727, stock motorcraft 2150 carb (with altitude > compensator). > > > On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 JA7PAET-at-aol.com wrote: > > >-->Thanks for you reply. My problem is I live in a small town > in Montana > and > >-->parts are hard to come by for anything. I work for the Jeep > dealership > in > >-->town and they don't have parts listed for the '81. Junk > yards are few > and > >-->have nothing I need. I did find web site that listed places > to call. > Maybe > >-->can find something thru them. Good luck and thanks again. > > hey, there's a few folks out there with FSJ's. :) > > john ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1071 **************************