From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Oct 28 10:48:20 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, October 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1085 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Fwd: bellhousing wanted fsj: Re: old FSJ Q Re: fsj: Re: old FSJ Q Re: fsj: Re: old FSJ Q Re: [fsj: OH...MY...GOD...the size of that thing...] Re: [fsj: sellin the Wag?] fsj: Re: sellin the Wag? fsj: fyi on the lists Re: fsj: Idle timing Re: [fsj: ideas re PING] fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... fsj: Re: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... fsj: Re: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... Re: fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... Re: fsj: sellin the Wag? fsj: Re: 219 ap transfer case Re: fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 13:50:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Fwd: bellhousing wanted From: a_jeep_thing-at-hotmail.com (mikeal schofield) wrote: I need a bellhousing that will fit a 258 and a t-4 tranny. got one? ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:02:51 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: old FSJ Q In a message dated 10/27/00 1:39:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: Please forgive any messy quotes you see in the next few days. I "upgraded" to the new version of AOL and it's giving me fits. No comments from you diode-heads that run Unix, Linux, OS2, or any other contraption that requires effort and intiative. IIRC, no FSJ ever used the Dana 18. Whether I'm right about that or not, a 327 powered '68 should have come with a Dana/Spicer 20 -- the gospel according to SM-1042. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco > Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 01:19:04 -0700 (PDT) > From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) > Subject: fsj: old FSJ Q > > Subject: Re: Possible "new" vehicle ... 327-powered '68 Wagoneer > "From: Greg Taylor > " > "I am going tonight to look at a Rambler 327-powered 1968 Jeep Wagoneer > that is > [] > "see what shape the engine is in. It has the TH400 automatic tranny ... > not > "sure which T-case though. > d18 i think. did the d20 exist yet ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:06:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: old FSJ Q A: Turned out to be a Buick 350 in that truck Ben wrote: Please forgive any messy quotes you see in the next few days. I "upgraded" to the new version of AOL and it's giving me fits. No comments from you diode-heads that run Unix, Linux, OS2, or any other contraption that requires effort and intiative. IIRC, no FSJ ever used the Dana 18. Whether I'm right about that or not, a 327 powered '68 should have come with a Dana/Spicer 20 -- the gospel according to SM-1042. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco "From: Greg Taylor " "I am going tonight to look at a Rambler 327-powered 1968 Jeep Wagoneer that is [] "see what shape the engine is in. It has the TH400 automatic tranny ... not "sure which T-case though. d18 i think. did the d20 exist yet ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:12:09 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Re: old FSJ Q In a message dated 10/27/00 2:06:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Carnuck-at-webtv.net writes: > A: Turned out to be a Buick 350 in that truck Still had oughta be a Dana 20. Ben ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 00 15:22:41 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: OH...MY...GOD...the size of that thing...] Friend of mine just got a Unimog; his is a Swiss Military version, the 404. 82hp motor, troop transport, so "only" about 5000#. They WILL go anywhere, just about. But they do it very slowly and noisily. He's working on insulating the cab from all the incredible deafining noise. I'm kind of the guy that turned him onto the 'Mogs cuz I felt it'd be good for them once they got onto their isolated land west of Cheyenne. Only problem? Highway speed is tops 60mph on slight downhill. Up any kind of hill, figure 40mph. You have to learn to take your time when travelling. :) Another option is the Pinzgauer, also a go-anywhere vehicle and kind of cool too. Smaller. Independent locking diffs. 110hp air cooled 4cyl, dual carb. 4500# so it's a little quicker tho still not very powerful. Top speed probably 65-70. It's a 1 ton truck tho. Might come in handy. Either one will get you more stares than most FSJs. BUT... after long debate about either of these $7,000-10,000 vehicles I decided when done with Troubled Child, I'd have a rig that would be nearly as capable off-road (tho without the geared hub and diff clearance!) and would be a heck of a lot more enjoyable to commute or cruise in. Michael Greg Loxtercamp wrote: > I just spent my lunch hour at Fred Fitzgeralds > house...Brad Seevers was there too. We were looking > at old FSJ parts that he is liquadating... > > But, Fred made reference to his 'new' tow > vehicle...well, he's got it, and WOW, is it COOL!!! > > The '73 Uni-Mog...nicknamed Stu-big, for Stupidily > Big...that pretty much describes it. He got the > double-cab, 3 ton, diesel, ex-German-boarder patrol > version. It weighs 7200lbs empty. It's got 50 inch > tires on a 114 wheel base, with no frame or body > overhang... Factory air lockers front and rear....25 > inch clearance at the pumpkins. Factory snorkel at > the top of the cab...which is ~8-9 feet up there... > PTO front and rear. Water heater (for before you > start it in artic climates). This thing is just > tough!!! > > Now, if I can just get my wife to let me have one... > > Greg > '79 Wag, the Ghost > '93 BMW 325ic (E30) > '99 Volvo V70 <- The Baby Hauler...coming in 6 months > :) > Unimog??? > Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: 27 Oct 00 15:46:29 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: sellin the Wag?] Are you getting below average mileage? Maybe it's time to get a beater import as a commuter rather than selling your FSJ? :) I have an import as a second car that gets 23mpg city, 35mpg hwy. That helps greatly. Sure insurance is spendy, but with the right kind of car & policy maybe it'd make sense? Would hate to ever have to give up my FSJs... Michael 86 GW "Troubled Child" 85 GW "Backhoe" 93 Sentra SE-R BWFerg-at-aol.com wrote: > Alright guys, I hate to say it, but I think I may have to sell the wagoneer. > Gas mileage is killing me. Im just not sure how much i could get for her. > She's an 83 wagoneer LTD....power everything, all leather interior....u know > the stats. anyway, her downfall is obviously the gas mileage and the body rot > near the rear tire wells. While we've owned her my dad and i have done > EVERYTHING on her. transmission, just did the brakes, she's been well cared > for and is not gonna need any repairs. Oh yeah....she does (on the plus side) > have a brand new inspection sticker on her as of last week, so thats no > biggie. anyway, any imput on selling, or any figures on how much u think i > could get for her would be appreciated. > regretfully, > bryan > 83 wag ltd (for now) - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 18:14:29 -0400 From: "Ray (lists)" Subject: fsj: Re: sellin the Wag? Where and how much? Ray - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 2:46 PM Subject: fsj: sellin the Wag? > Alright guys, I hate to say it, but I think I may have to sell the wagoneer. > Gas mileage is killing me. Im just not sure how much i could get for her. > She's an 83 wagoneer LTD....power everything, all leather interior....u know > the stats. anyway, her downfall is obviously the gas mileage and the body rot > near the rear tire wells. While we've owned her my dad and i have done > EVERYTHING on her. transmission, just did the brakes, she's been well cared > for and is not gonna need any repairs. Oh yeah....she does (on the plus side) > have a brand new inspection sticker on her as of last week, so thats no > biggie. anyway, any imput on selling, or any figures on how much u think i > could get for her would be appreciated. > regretfully, > bryan > 83 wag ltd (for now) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 15:46:47 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: fyi on the lists ...lots of new folks on the FSJ, XJ and DieselBenz list on digest.net. Just want folks to know that I keep the digests on my server: http://wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests/ http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/digests/ http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/digests In addition, there are search engines for the digests... of course it's a crude script I got off the web and haven't had time to improve it... not sure when I will. sorry. Also, Richard Welty, the owner of digest.net has been a most gracious hosts for our lists. He also keeps a copy of the digests on his server. I started the original FSJ list in '95 with about 12 other folks, most of them are on this FSJ list too. I was editing for off-road.com and started the xj list there around August 1997 and moved the original FSJ list to orc. When I quit editing for orc in Nov '97 I was blocked from the lists by the owner of the server. So, I went off and created the lists elsewhere. Later I started the DieselBenz list and it's been growing as well. We really need to say thanx to Richard Welty for supporting our automotive insanity. ;) We love you richard! :) It's been almost three years now of incredible service on digest.net! (I just realized I've been at Intermec Technologies exactly three years today.) john ====================================================================================== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/john/book-info.html http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ====================================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:08:37 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Idle timing ... < g > ... I'm drivin', and watchin' that gauge, and playing with the pedal... < G> I'm still thinkin' ... Landon Tesar wrote: > Hi, > > may have answered my own question with that last post. > Why is the vacuum zero at idle ? > > I'm guessing this is the difference between 'port' and 'manifold' > vacuum. > Manifold vacuum at idle will be high, but the air available to the > engine is coming through the idle jet, not through the 'port' that is > part of the run carb circuit. When we transition to the run circuit by > opening the throttle, we create vacuum in the port .... right ? > > - Landon - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:49:51 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: [fsj: ideas re PING] Now that delay valve... I've been thinking about those buggers all week too... reading about the EGR and Jim's explanation... maybe it just isn't working quite right... The manual I've got describes the leak down, etc. for all those delay valves, so I've just got to test them all. Here's an interesting wrinkle. I put Amoco gas in it it Thursday nite and drove it home. By the time I'd driven it 20 miles, I could tell a difference. It definately pinged less with the Amoco than with the Conoco gas... still pings, but much less often... and so does my wallet -at- $1.60+... and no gigs from you guys that are paying 1.80, my commute is nearly 80 miles a day now at 12mpg.... ;-( $1.60 hurts considering my income dropped by about $12K/yr in March.... Just in time for the gas to go through the roof.... yee haw ain't life some fun sometimes.... {Jim, you don't have to answer that.... } Da usta tol me... boy, just keep walkin and drink lotsa water.... The weekend will bring vacumn tests for delay valves and installation check to make sure none are reversed... Maybe have to pull the EGR valve and make sure the port is clean.... Thinking about driving it with a 1/2" wide piece of flat plate clamped over the end of the pipe to see if giving it a little more backpressure really does make a difference.... Then maybe I'll have to spend some money on springs or cooler plugs.... This has been an amazing thread chasing this problem. I have learned LOADS about motor basics than I ever realized I DIDn't know... much good Karma... But I'm about done watching vac advance for a while. Will see what I find with delay valves, etc and take it from there... JeepNut Michael Shimniok wrote: > That's REAL interesting, given that I'm running a 3" exhaust, > hi flow 3" cat, and straight thru muffler and also had pinging > problems similar to what you describe. > > Related note: I think the Jeep fix was, in short, to remove the > delay valve from in front of the EGR so that it'd come on quicker. > > Michael > > JeepNut wrote: > > Hi all, > > I was doing some reading tonight and stumbled on a paragraph which says > > that a badly leaking exhaust system can cause ping as the backpressure is > > too low to let the EGR system work properly and this can cause ping.... > > As I am nearly always gnawing on the bone moneywise, the last time my > > muffler rotted off, it got a $30 exhaust job and well, that means past the > > head pipe, just a glaspak and a 2.5" short pipe. > > So I suppose you don't get much less backpressure than that. > > Any opinions about whether this could cause some ping problems like > I've > > > > been having lately? > > It seems odd, maybe someone can explain... > > I seem to hear folks talking about 2.5 and 3" pipe with these > > "flowmaster" "super-free-flowing" blah, blah, so.... do those running > these super open exhausts trade this for ping? Obviously not, so what piece of > > > the puzzle am I missing to understand this? > > I did some homework and think I understand right that under heavy > > throttle with the engine warm, the EGR opens to let exhaust gases back into > > the burn path, right? > > Can someone explain why that keeps preignition at bay? > > Sorry to be so "technical" but I really gotta get this stopped or my > > pistons could be toast if I understand THAT correctly.... > > Thanks everyone! > > JeepNut > > > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > > '92 Cherokee > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net > "For every complex problem, there is a solution that > is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:38:30 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... the question came up today about the 5 lug pattern on my son's 67 J3000. 5 on ???? anyone know? I did a quick search through my info and couldn't find anything... thanx, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:48:26 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... As hard as it might be for such a bytehead as you, you could just measure it. ;-) kim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: 27 October, 2000 23:38 Subject: fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... > the question came up today about the 5 lug pattern > on my son's 67 J3000. 5 on ???? anyone know? > > I did a quick search through my info and couldn't find anything... > > thanx, > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:52:39 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... At 11:48 PM 10/27/00 -0600, Kim Smith wrote: >As hard as it might be for such a bytehead as you, you could just measure >it. ;-) > >kim you know what? I didn't even think of that... of course it's dark and raining outside, and when I posted that the truck was 2.3 miles away... and it's past my bedtime, and it's not my truck and you were supposed to give me the answer and .... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:57:57 -0600 From: "Kim Smith" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... Some people---you try and help them, and all you get is kvetch, kvetch, kvetch! :-) BTW, none of my references say siccum about bolt patterns. kim - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Kim Smith" Cc: Sent: 27 October, 2000 23:52 Subject: fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... > At 11:48 PM 10/27/00 -0600, Kim Smith wrote: > >As hard as it might be for such a bytehead as you, you could just measure > >it. ;-) > > > >kim > > you know what? I didn't even think of that... of course it's dark > and raining outside, and when I posted that the truck was 2.3 miles > away... and it's past my bedtime, and it's not my truck and you were > supposed to give me the answer and .... ;) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 22:59:19 -0700 From: "Karl-at-Nookit.com" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... If it'll help you sleep, I got an answer! 6! Does that help? What are we talking about again? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Kim Smith" Cc: Sent: Friday, October 27, 2000 10:52 PM Subject: fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... > At 11:48 PM 10/27/00 -0600, Kim Smith wrote: > >As hard as it might be for such a bytehead as you, you could just measure > >it. ;-) > > > >kim > > you know what? I didn't even think of that... of course it's dark > and raining outside, and when I posted that the truck was 2.3 miles > away... and it's past my bedtime, and it's not my truck and you were > supposed to give me the answer and .... ;) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > "The truth which makes men free is for the most part > the truth which men prefer not to hear." > ---Herbert Sebastian Agar > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 01:00:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... A: 5 on 5" shared with Ford and IH as well as CJ John wrtoe the question came up today about the 5 lug pattern on my son's 67 J3000. 5 on ???? anyone know? I did a quick search through my info and couldn't find anything... thanx, john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 EFax:603-215-1688 http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:57:54 EDT From: BWFerg-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: sellin the Wag? yeah...i live in rhode island. where are you located? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:21:00 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 219 ap transfer case it takes ATF. I'm not sure how many ponies the NP cases will handle, but I suspect 350 shouldn't do too much damage... it's chain driven, but it is aluminum cased. I'll cc the FSJ list on this to see what other opinions on it are. I know the old Borg Warner Quadratracs worked well behind 401's. john klarke crosby At 12:12 PM 10/28/00 -0300, you wrote: >Hi John found youre site online when searching for some info on my >transfer case. > Let me start off by telling me that i have a 1980 cherokee with a 360 >engine and of course a 219 ap tranfer case.Ihave been using the old girl >for a tough truck unit ,lol >My plans for here are to hop the engine to 350 horses and cage the >inside for ralleys. >No one in the area nows much about the transfer case including my self i >was hoping that you could help me out with any info you could on the >unit, including fluid type problems with the unit as a whole .Any info >would be appreciated. Thanks again - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 10:24:39 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... At 01:00 AM 10/28/00 -0700, James Blair wrote: >A: 5 on 5" shared with Ford and IH as well as CJ >John wrtoe >the question came up today about the 5 lug pattern on my son's 67 J3000. >5 on ???? anyone know? >I did a quick search through my info and couldn't find anything... >thanx, >john thanx Jim. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ "The truth which makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear." ---Herbert Sebastian Agar Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1085 **************************