From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Dec 16 22:00:21 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, December 16 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1141 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: the last FSJ fsj: fsj-digest V1 #1140 fsj: Htr problems - 86 GW fsj: last call for parts... fsj: Re: amen to that... Re: fsj: Re: amen to that... fsj: Motorcraft jets Re: [fsj: Motorcraft jets] Re: [fsj: Htr problems - 86 GW] fsj: Re: wagoneer fsj: Re: I Need Help fsj: while I slept... Re: [fsj: Htr problems - 86 GW] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:29:45 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: the last FSJ Richard, There were 4 1992 Grand Wagoneers produced. The last one being preserved in the National Auto Museum in Reno, NV. Four Wheeler had an article about it, including the VIN. If memory serves me correctly they were made in August or September... but I'll wait for Ken and or Michael to clarify. :) I'm not sure where my copy is but both Michael Baxter and Ken Wetherall should have that info somewhere... john Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 15:55:40 EST From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: CALENDAR UPDATE - NEED SOME FSJ FACTS CHECKED To everyone in the FSJ community: To make the calendar more useful, I've compiled from a variety of sources, some Jeep facts that I'm hoping that Mark Welle can incorporate, along with the photo captions, into the date portion of the calendar. Can you all take a look at this and if you see anything you know to be historically incorrect, please E-mail me immediately? Calendar goes to press tomorrow. It looks like the first run will be between 110 and 120 calendars. If you still want to order one or increase your order, please contact via E-mail me before midnight tonight, PST. Both the layout site and the Paypal site are hard to access due to traffic and server conjestion. At this point, just E-mail me directly so I know of your intentions. If you can get through, here's the final layout for the calendar. I would appreciate feedback, good and bad but at this point, there will be no more changes. (richard, quit putting the a href on list, simply put the http:... ;) you break it so it's not linkable, it causes an error because the is picked up with the url... ;) just put it there like this: http://jeep-calendar.homepage.com/layout3.html The easier access PayPal link is: http://jeep-calendar.homepage.com/Paymentpage.html The facts for review are pasted in below. Thanks, Richard Truesdell Project Coordinator Did you know? Jeep facts. January 2001 fact - The first FSJs officially debuted on November 14, 1962 as 1963 models. February 2001 fact - The all-new 1963 FSJ sported both an OHC engine and an optional torsion bar IFS. March 2001 fact - The 1966 Super Wagoneer was the world's first luxury 4WD truck. April 2001 fact - Over their long production run, FSJs featured V8s from Nash, Buick and AMC. May 2001 fact - The 1970 - 1974 J4800 represented on of the high water marks of J-truck design and capacity. June 2001 fact - Although 2-door Wagoneers were offered from 1963 - 1968, the 1974 Cherokee was the first popular 2-door FSJ. July 2001 fact - A 401 cubic inch V8 was a factory FSJ option from 1974 to 1978. August 2001 fact - In 1979 the Wagoneer Limited debuted, signaling the reintroduction of a true luxury-based FSJ September 2001 fact - With the upcoming introduction of the compact XJ Cherokee, 1983 marked the end of FSJ Cherokee production. October 2001 fact - Concurrent with the introduction of the XJ Cherokee, the Wagoneer Limited became the Grand Wagoneer for 1984. November 2001 fact- Although 1988 models were in the pipeline, after the AMC-Chrysler merger, 1987 was the last year for the FSJ pickup. December 2001 fact - The last FSJ officially rolled down the Toledo line the spring of 1991. (Waiting for the exact date.) Photo captions Cover image - 1979 AMC Jeep Cherokee owned by Peter Matusov, La Jolla, CA. January 2001 - 1985 AMC Jeep Grand Wagoneer owned by Rob Harrison of Danville, CA; 1988 Chrysler Jeep Grand Wagoneer owned by John Miller of Reno, NV; 1969 Kaiser Jeep Super Wagoneer owned by Richard Truesdell of Yorba Linda, CA. February 2001 - 1983 AMC Jeep J10 owned by John Meister, Snohomish, WA; 1980 AMC Jeep J10 Laredo owned by Jeff Barnes, Denison, TX; 1984 J10 Laredo owned by Olan Henderson, Coolidge, AZ; 1968 Kaiser M715 owned by Luke Schulze, Alfred Station, NY. March 2001 - 1983 AMC Jeep Cherokee WT owned by John Clark, Greenwood Village, CO. April 2001 - 1964 Kaiser Jeep Wagoneer owned by Jim and Peg Marski, Pine, CO. May 2001 - 1967 Kaiser Jeep M715, Bill and Tammy Galihugh, Orange, Virginia. June 2001 - 1985 AMC Cherokee DL, Brian A Stephens, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia. July 2001 - 1973 AMC J4600, owned by MSX International, Auburn Hills, MI. August 2001 - 1984 AMC Jeep Wagoneer Limited owned by Jon Ramsay, Yorba Linda, CA. September 2001 - 1983 AMC Jeep J10 Stepside owned by John Meister, Snohomish, WA; 1967 Kaiser Jeep J3000 owned by Mark Meister, Snohomish, WA; 1973 AMC J4000 owned by Walt Greenwood, Everett, WA. October 2001 - 1971 AMC J4800 Camper Special and 1971 AMC Wagoneer, AMC 8 x 10 publicity transparency; current owners unknown. November 2001 - 1969 Kaiser Jeep Super Wagoneer owned by Richard Truesdell, Yorba Linda, CA. December 2001 - 1987 AMC Jeep Grand Wagoneer owned by Toby DeMoss, Arvada, CO; 1986 AMC Grand Wagoneer owned by Kevin Smith, Colorado Springs, CO; 1976 AMC Jeep Cherokee owned by Steven Kaiser of Santa Fe, NM; 1981 AMC Jeep Cherokee Laredo owned by James Junkin, Littleton, CO; 1964 Kaiser Jeep Wagoneer owned by Al Metzel, El Cajon, CA. This calendar is dedicated to the memory of Kenneth Jordan (1931 - 2000), Executive Engineer at Kaiser-Jeep who was instrumental in the development and evolution of the full-sized Jeep. - ------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 08:12:03 EST From: Moontanman-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: fsj-digest V1 #1140 Has anyone tried the "Dual Drive" differentials on a FSJ? They are supposed to work with Quadra trac and give you true positive traction. Moon ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:26:13 -0600 From: Brian Wall Subject: fsj: Htr problems - 86 GW Need help fixing heater/defroster in the 86 GW. The fan works great in AC mode, but goes to nothing when you slide the selector switch to any htr/def mode. I've replaced the dashboard panel, but same outcome. Any ideas? B. Wall 86 GW OKC ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:17:27 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: fsj: last call for parts... The towing company is coming next Tuesday to take away the 'Ghost'...my '79 wagoneer that I've had for 6 years...oh the memories and adventures...quite emotional. I'm donating the vehicle. The letter that I will receive will state the blue book value to be $1000-$2400-$4750, depending on the condition. I'll choose a value w/i the range as my tax-writeoff. I've removed all the parts/components that I've added over the years...lift, CD player, BW low-range unit, Mile-Marker part-time 4x4 kit. Those parts and more are for sale, but some parts remain...like... The digital clock. I think I have a non functional analog one that I can put in. If so, does anyone want the digital one? Works perfectly...will come with a wiring diagram. You pay for shipping and it's yours. A pristine rear aluminum bumper. This is probably only available for local people, since I would need a replacement. A relitively intact front grill...it does have a few cracks, but it's better than some. Again, a replacement would be necessary. I guess that's it...let me know... Greg Portland, OR Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 13:18:18 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: amen to that... > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:04:33 -0800 > From: john (snip) > For snow and ice you want open axles... street manners are important to > me. If I was going to make a serious trail rig I'd definetly go with > a Detroit Locker fore and aft, they are less trouble on the trail than > ARB or any other setup... I'm going to have to argue with you here John. I've been trying out the factory limited slips in the Bronco since we got 4" - 6" of snow this week. The rear limited slip is infinitely better than an open diff on the slick stuff when in 2hi. In 4hi with two limited slips working for you it feels pretty unstoppable. That Wag did great even with it's street tires, but limited slips are a clear improvement on snow and ice. Other than a slightly stiff front end when in 2hi/hubs locked, there are no driveability compromises with these diffs. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 11:12:31 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: Re: fsj: Re: amen to that... The problem with any kind of Traction Aid Device is quickly realized if you are on a off-camber situation and you spin the tires. The vehicle will break both tires (on an axle) loose and the vehicle will slide to the side. With an open differential, only one tire will spin...the other will keep the vehicle from sliding. Greg - --- Brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: > > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:04:33 -0800 > > From: john > (snip) > > For snow and ice you want open axles... street manners are important to > > me. If I was going to make a serious trail rig I'd definetly go with > > a Detroit Locker fore and aft, they are less trouble on the trail than > > ARB or any other setup... > > I'm going to have to argue with you here John. I've been trying out the > factory limited slips in the Bronco since we got 4" - 6" of snow this week. > The rear limited slip is infinitely better than an open diff on the slick > stuff when in 2hi. In 4hi with two limited slips working for you it feels > pretty unstoppable. That Wag did great even with it's street tires, but > limited slips are a clear improvement on snow and ice. Other than a slightly > > stiff front end when in 2hi/hubs locked, there are no driveability > compromises with these diffs. > > Ben Williams > '71 Wagoneer > '78 F-250 4x4 > '88 Bronco Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:41:54 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Motorcraft jets Michael Shimniok writes: >> Thanks for the info. FWIW the altitude compensator doesn't seem to do diddly up above 8000'. The 2150 performs the same or worse than other carbs we've seen up there. My truck is even jetted lean (#52) but ran horribly at altitude. I don't think the alt compensator adjusts quite the way I had hoped. Anyone know if it adjust linearly over a range of altitudes and if so, what is that range? I was going to take a spare aneroid with me to Ouray and measure its behavior but forgot. << This was a left over from the 1st part of the week which I didn't get to before I had to leave. There was another subject on this thread which was: Recarbco and the Motorcraft 4350 - long]] The only 2150s I've had over 10,000 ft. are the 2150-2s. That's what came on both my '79s. The only thing I notice that changes between sealevel and 10,000 ft. is the idle speed. The altitude compensation circuit is separate from the other circuits in the carb. The aneroid wafer simply pushes the large horizontal valve open more and more as the outside pressure decreases allowing more and more bypass air into the engine. Things that can affect the circuit adversely are: 1. Changing the calibration of the main and power enrichment circuits. The only thing easily changeable here is the main jets which you have done. Since the circuits are separate, you can't change one without changing the other or the relationship will be incorrect under certain conditions. 2. The thickness of the replacement aneroid wafer housing gaskets are often thinner than the original. This changes the calibration of the circuit. Leaner too if I remember correctly. 3. The housing pieces are often warped slightly and the gaskets don't seal properly. Without having a 2150 in front of me, I can't tell you what the result in this case. I suspect it just allows unfiltered air into the circuit and doesn't affect the calibration. 4. Improper assembly of the parts, the valve stem seal missing or the cage spring missing could also be the culprit. The 1st thing I would do is try to determine why the carb. is calibrated rich when the stock 55 or 56 main jets are used. Dirty or plugged air bleeds, dirty or plugged emulsion tubes (which I'm not sure you can see on a 2150), power valve weak & opening too soon, manifold vacuum source for power valve plugged, leaking or misrouted (last two only apply to 2150-3 since the -2's source is internal), float level set too high and fuel spilling into the throttle bores, etc. Even the carb. body could be cracked allowing unmetered fuel into the engine. Unfortunately, the only way to figure all this out is to completely disassemble the carb. and inspect everything carefully. Clean every part thoroughly and blow out all passages with compressed air. Anything less than soaking the carb body in a 5 gallon bucket of carb. cleaner overnight introduces too many variables IMO. Read my How To on the 2150 before dunking a 2150-2 in carb. cleaner since it has plastic parts on the throttle shaft. Then put it back together and use the exploded diagram in the Service Manual as a reference ensuring sure every part is there and assembled correctly. One thing is for sure, The Ford and Jeep engineers did a lot of testing with the 2150 getting the calibration as close to perfect as they could. Certainly the corporate bean counters would not have allowed a carb. with an altitude compensation feature to be included if it didn't work. They would have used the 2100 instead and saved a few dollars per unit. Michael Shimniok writes: >> In practise, however, I would say that either older aneroids are not capable of adjusting properly, or their range only covers up to, say, 5000'. It is true that many of our 2150-equipped FSJs run too rich at altitude and run fine in city, if a bit rich (i.e., we consistently fail emissions). IOW in our (CFSJA's) experience, 2150's really benefit from leaner jetting. My 85 runs much better and cleaner with #52's at 5280' yet at 11,000 feet it spews pitch black smoke. << Before 2150s became standard equipment, they were installed on FSJs sold to dealers over 4,000 ft. Seems unlikely that the high altitude equipment would only be effective from 4,000 to 5,000 ft. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 15-Dec-2000 ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 00 16:29:58 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Motorcraft jets] Michael Baxter wrote: > The only 2150s I've had over 10,000 ft. are the 2150-2s. That's what > came on both my '79s. The only thing I notice that changes between > sealevel and 10,000 ft. is the idle speed. >... > 1. Changing the calibration of the main and power enrichment circuits. > The only thing easily changeable here is the main jets which you have > done. Since the circuits are separate, you can't change one without > changing the other or the relationship will be incorrect under certain > conditions. Perhaps this is the problem, the power valve is dumping in too much gas. Thick black smoke really only resulted when I had my foot in it climbing (off-road, say 30 degree slope or more), which was necessary cuz I had inadequate power at part throttle. So how do I deal with this--are there power valves that are calibrated for leaner main jets? > 4. Improper assembly of the parts, the valve stem seal missing or the > cage spring missing could also be the culprit. Hm. Spring was in. Stem seal? Don't remember. > The 1st thing I would do is try to determine why the carb. is calibrated > rich when the stock 55 or 56 main jets are used. Dirty or plugged air I would submit that whatever I find is a problem for a number of FSJs with these carbs. Otherwise, why would the CO emissions dept issue a statement that 50, or 52 jets cure emissions problems that they see on these rigs? As to the cause... well, the carb was rebuilt and I did my best to clean out the various passageways, but don't know about the emulsion tubes-- don't know what they are. The power valve was new. Vacuum routing was fine, went over it on both vehicles the carb has lived on. Float level was set to dry spec +/- a 64th. At normal altitudes I don't see thick black smoke-- that would be expected if there's raw fuel dumping into the bores due to cracked carb... right? I get about 12mpg with the #52 jets. I vote for either power valve or aneroid problem. Next time I bother rebuilding the carb I'll soak it overnite. Since I didn't have a 5gal bucket of carb cleaner handy, I didn't soak it. That alone may explain everything. Good point on the engineering. What material is the wafer made out of? I can't help but wonder if it fails to operate in spec when it's old. Bottom line, I predict a bunch of people will be having carb problems when they reach high altitudes of Ouray trails and passes in 2002. We have seen it time and again. I want to make sure that any advice we give will actually work. Time to test is limited, though, but I'll try rebuilding and soaking my carb and see if that helps. Many thanx for the info and advice!! Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 00 16:34:40 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Htr problems - 86 GW] Heater and A/C use separate blowers. So more than likely, your heater blower isn't working. Check fuse first, then check for voltage at the heater motor when you have it on. If no voltage, trace wires back to find out why. If there is voltage but no operation, perhaps it's time for a new motor -- or there's something stuck in the housing (leaves?) preventing the motor from turning which would cause it to get pretty hot and draw lots of current, so be careful. Michael 86 GW "Troubled Child" Brian Wall wrote: > Need help fixing heater/defroster in the 86 GW. The fan works great in AC > mode, but goes to nothing when you slide the selector switch to any htr/def > mode. I've replaced the dashboard panel, but same outcome. Any ideas? > > B. Wall > 86 GW > OKC - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 15:55:42 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: wagoneer On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Devin Pense wrote: >-->I am looking for a diecast model of a wagoneer with wood paneling - >-->1981-1992. Do you have any info of where i can find one? >--> >-->thank you. >--> >-->dp >-->dpense-at-mastermixmedia.com no, but when you find one order a bunch, I want one and I bet there are a few more that would... I've got a few Tonka models, but they're old. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:31:54 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: I Need Help you could check with a Jeep dealer or body shop. the parts are out there... you could get on the FSJ list and ask there as well... info below. this is the 86 Grand Wagoneer with only 300 miles on it that was in Wyoming... :) Sold for $20,000, then resold for $30,000. john At 02:42 AM 12/16/00 +0000, Luis Le�n wrote: >I have a wagoneer that's similar to attach photo (wagoneer 86) but I need >change the plastic lateral woodlike panels (you can see it in the photo). >I dont know where buy it or a web site. >Can you help me?, Do you know a web site with information that's I am nedding? >Thank in advance! >Luis Leon >Bloomington, Indiana > >Note: excuse my bad english >_________________________________________________________________________ ============================================================================= ========= To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ============================================================================= ========= john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ============================================================================= ========= ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 21:30:57 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: while I slept... Strange change of weather... Guess we had some serious wind... http://www.komotv.com/weather/dec_14.html power went out at 5:30am, was off until after 9am... that's the LONGEST power outage we've seen here... the next longest power outage was during the Duval earthquake, that was just over 2 hours or so. The only vehicles that left our driveway were Jeeps. :) My daughter tried to leave in her car, but parked it and commandered the little wagoneer. :) I tried to get out in 2wd in SuperDawg... wasn't gonna happen, found out my trac-lock was working... both back tires just spun... popped it into 4wd and off we went. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 06:03:33 EST From: HH4PIZZA-at-aol.com Subject: Re: [fsj: Htr problems - 86 GW] There are not two blower motors, but two thermostats, one under the driver dash behind the vents and the one under the hood. Not sure but on my 88 it was the "thermostat", on the passenger side firewall under the hood, Make sure all of the wires are connected. I endede up replacing it anyways and it solved my problem. Later, Dustin ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1141 **************************