From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Dec 18 17:28:54 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, December 18 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1144 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Autoresponse to your mail, re: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! fsj: Attention all six-aholics! fsj: slushbox fsj: Fwd: help on tranny (Any Bobtail owners with auto trans?) fsj: RE: slushbox fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer (cherokee) questions Re: [Re: fsj: FSJ's On Film] Re: [fsj: Rear door questions,] Re: [fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer (cherokee) questions] fsj: CALENDAR UPDATE - NEED SOME FSJ FACTS CH Re: [Re: fsj: FSJ's On Film] Re: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer (cherokee) questions fsj: RE: slushbox FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 09:51:16 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Autoresponse to your mail, re: Snowhite and the Seven Dwarfs - The REAL story! A: I sent the trash email I got back to sexyfun.com, and this is what I got for an answer (glad I didn't sic a nastier virii back on them!) From: auto-at-nullspace.neonova.net (Auto Responder) +------------------- |NOTA BENE: This message is automatically generated; PLEASE DO NOT REPLY. |           Subsequent email with the same reply-to address will not induce |           additional responses from this service. +--------- Hello,       You are receiving this message because you have sent a email to hahaha-at-sexyfun.net to request, complain or notify this user that they are SPAMMING, sending email with a virus, sending email that has content that may not be appropriate for minors, to be removed from a mailing list, etc.. The truth is: 1) This user does NOT exist. 2) The email that you got with the From: field of hahaha-at-sexyfun.net   did NOT come from sexyfun.net or the hosting companies network. 3) The email you got is in FACT a way for the (W95.Hybris.gen) virus   to spread itself around the world / Internet. 4) If you would look at the Received: header of the email you got it   will tell you the real IP / Computer name that has sent you this   virus which is most likely someone you know that is infected with   the virus and is not aware of it. 5) The owner of the domain sexyfun.net and the hosting company has   setup a help page with information about the (W95.Hybris.gen)   virus, links to software that you can use to clean your computer   if you are infected as well as other misc. information. NOTE: As long as you don't run / open / double click on the attachment       of this email, this virus should not be able to infect you just       by reading the email. Here are links to well known companies of anti-virus products that will show that what has been said above is true. http://www.datafellows.com/v-descs/hybris.htm http://www.kaspersky.com/news.asp?tnews=0&nview=1&id=134&page=0 This is the link to the website we have setup to provide additional information about this Virus. http://www.sexyfun.net/ If you have any other questions please contacts us at: web-at-sexyfun.net Thanks you for your time. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:12:05 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: Attention all six-aholics! 31:09 -0700 From: "John T. Elle" MIME-Version: 1.0 To: AMX-Files CC: FARNA-at-worldnet.att.net, doschev-at-yahoo.com Subject: Re: Mopar Fuel injection update, A day at the race track. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Towhomit may concern, Frank and for information to Boris Frank Swygert wrote: 10 hp sounds about right, gas mileage should improve 3-4 mpg as well. A real 4.0 puts out a bit more, sounds like yours is producing around 125 hp, based on the 110 of a stock 258. Snip For the moment, that is a reasonable estimate. However, the horsepower curve is gonna move around some. One reference book I have lists the SAE net Horse Power at 114 at 3600 rpm for the 258 2bbl 1977-1986 with 8.0:1 compression. This is a number that I have question with as the 2bbl Carter BBD carb, if it is a 230 CFM carb and most guesstaments place it there,would go flat at about 3100 rpm which is where they actually go flat based on those that I have driven. That also seems to correspond to the chassis dyno results that I have on my modified, carburetored 258. The horse power curve is fairly flat from 3100 rpm to 3400 rpm at about 91 rear wheel horsepower. Does the kit come with a new distributor as well? or does it use the stock distributor? Snip Yes, the kit does come with a new distributor and coil. In fact, with the kit, there are only three wires that you hook up. Power goes to the battery. Ground goes to the engine block and the old Distributor Plus wire goes to the two relays that control the on/off functions. As this kit mimics a '94/95 Jeep application I would suggest to anyone contemplating a junkyard search and rescue mission that the MOPAR Jeep engines manual (3rd addtion) be purchased (Part number P5007161). The full assembly instructions are listed there and you will discover it is more than just an engine and a computor, but transmissiuon cable conversion, speedsensors, electric fuel pump and filter, mounting brackets and other misc. instructions that may save you repeated trips back to the junk yard trying to get stuff that will work. It could possibly save you far more than the $30.00 cost of the manual not to mention it also contains a wealth of additional information. It should put out more than 10 hp, around 25 is what I'd have expected. Snip I was quoted from a variety of sources) numbers up to 40hp gain. But you have to take some of that with a grain of salt. Lets face it, a 40 hp gain is 35% gain and that is a quite a bit to really expect in the real world we live in. Unless you really do belive in the snake oil claims the "magic additive industry" advertises. While it is a lot of money for the small gain, you already mentioned the driveability benefits as well, plus the added fuel economy. Snip. Not to mention the kit is all inclusive. All brackets, sensors, wiring harness, plugs, cables, vent tubes, relays, cable coversion parts for accelerator pedal and kick down linkage (for automatics) all designed to retrofit onto a 258. For older than '81 you also have to buy an '81 and up exhaust manifold. But the most valuable piece in the kit is the California CARB smog exemption paper work, which if installed per directions in the kit will make the conversion smog legal in many states, including the one that I live in. That makes the difference between being able to do it or not. There is a different part number for standard and automatic transmission kits. The engine would work much better with a little more gear though, and deliver nearly the same fuel economy as the 2.53. A 2.73 would be great for it. Snip Actually you are probably quite right here and if I should get lucky and scarf a 2.73 rear axle from a V-8 car I would probably go for it. If for no other reason than the brake drums can be replaced for about $25.00 a piece rather than the $110.00 for the 9" drums. But, out here in the south west there are plenty of places with a legal 75 mph speed limit and with the big -6-, it does have a limited RPM range whether I like it or not and I would rather run the 2.53 rear gears on the highway than the 2.73 gears. When I do go out to the Drag strip to have a good time I take my "poor man's short gears" a pair of 195-70-13's which give me an equivelent of 2.73 gears and have been good for 1/2 a second and about 2 mph. I have not tried them yet with the Fuel Injection. I'll be running a 3.08 in 2-3 months with an AW4 auto. Will let everyone know how that goes, and will have more data on an alternative suspension for torque tube drive cars as well. that this goes to show that a BBD carb in good repair isn't as bad as everyone thinks. There is a lot of plumbing that goes with the carb, and all the sensors and controls MUST be in good repair for it to operate efficiently. The stepper motor and CTO ports have to work and the oxygen sensor needs replacing (in ANY so equipped vehicle) every 70K miles or so. Many Eagles are running around with 100K+ on their original oxygen sensors and frozen stepper motors! How can anyone expect them to perform correctly? Snip   I have claimed many times that the Carter 2bbl BBD (with the Stepper controls) is actually quite a good carb.. It has proven to be very versital and it takes to engine modifications quite well. But, as you say Frank, it has to be on the money. If it ain't (along with all the other vacuum lines, sensors etc.) it has no forgiveness at all. It is either right or pffffttt!. Personally I have taken a lot of time to get them right and quite prefer them to micky mousing some other type of carb onto the engine. I had gone as far as I could with the BBD and swapping to a 4bbl was not an option. So this F.I. kit seemned to be the way to go and I guess that I can honestly say I think that it was a good (if not pricey) choice. The MPFI can be tuned some also. A free flowing exhaust and intake will help just as with a carburetor. Snip As I am working on an '80, just changing the exhaust manifold to an '81 has to be some kind of a big improvement. It is a lot cleaner design, lighter than the '80 and hooks up to all existing fittings. At this point in time if I were to do anything with the exhaust I would install a freeflowing catalytic converter and a larger diameter exhaust pipe. If the dampener pickup kit was used the timing can be adjusted by shifting the sensor position. Snip Yes, this has to be purchased seperate from the kit and I did not realise that I could change the timing that way. Some time in the future I might find myself playing with it. At the present the engine acts like the timing is advanced from the standard Carb'ed 258 setting. I would have to set the timing to about 15 degrees advanced to get the carb'ed engine to run as good as it did. Also, I am seeing a greater vacuum reading running with the Fuel Injection on the road than I did with the carb. This tells me that the engine is not working as hard as it did before to pull the car down the road. All the bits and pieces of feed back that I am getting from a variety of sources from the car indicate it is developing more power and at a higher RPM than it did before. In the not too distance future I will have the car on another chassis dynomometer to find out what is going on. When I do I will make a report to that effect. I appreciate the information and feedback. Have a good AMC day. John T Elle Phx AZ johnelle-at-sprintmail.com '70 Donohue 390 5 spd '80 F.I. Spirit (SNARLEE) '74 Hornet Levi Hatch back a busy project pad. and an AIM subscriber, and if you ain't you are missing a good publication (Yes, the above was a blatant endorsement) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:30:43 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: slushbox where are you and how much for them? If you're not up near Seattle it's not worth the bother, I can pickup a guaranteed 727 for about $125 and someone is giving me an np219, already have the driveshafts for them... :) john Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:54:42 -0600 From: "Gaines, Kenneth L. MM2 (SIMA-ING)" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Re: [1FSJ] I need another Jeep now... I will also soon have a 1981 727 slushbox and QT that I might be persuaded to part with. Anyone interested? - ------------------------------ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:24:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: fsj: Fwd: help on tranny (Any Bobtail owners with auto trans?) A: I have heard of a few conversions, but I'm not on any SWB Jeep lists. From: "Dave Cotner Sr." Hello my fellow listers. I am in desperate need of some knowledge for my husband. He has had a bad accident at work and will no longer be able to drive his restored 73 cj5 jeep. Now this jeep is his baby and he has restored it from the ground up.. It is currently a 3 speed transmission and I would like to have it changed over to and automatic for him before he is released form the hospital. It has a amc 360 motor and is really souped up and I need to know what automatic transmission will fit in it as for he will be missing his left leg from the knee down will not be able to operate a clutch pedal. If you guys can help me I can have the work done at a local shop. My husband says he will just have to sell the jeep, but I know that this is his pride and joy for he has done all of the work himself and it will break his heart if he sells it . Please help Thankyou for your time .. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:34:18 -0600 From: "Gaines, Kenneth L. MM2 (SIMA-ING)" Subject: fsj: RE: slushbox I am in Corpus Christi, TX. Like I said, all I would ask for the parts is the cost of the shipping because I don't want them to accumulate in my front yard. I don't know how much the shipping cost of something like that would be. The transmission is in decent shape and I know for a fact that the QT box works very well. Let me know if you want them. Ken - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:31 PM To: full size jeep list Subject: fsj: slushbox where are you and how much for them? If you're not up near Seattle it's not worth the bother, I can pickup a guaranteed 727 for about $125 and someone is giving me an np219, already have the driveshafts for them... :) john Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:54:42 -0600 From: "Gaines, Kenneth L. MM2 (SIMA-ING)" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Re: [1FSJ] I need another Jeep now... I will also soon have a 1981 727 slushbox and QT that I might be persuaded to part with. Anyone interested? - ------------------------------ ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 13:23:45 -0500 From: "George, Frank" Subject: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer (cherokee) questions Is there a way around this? I have an '83 Cherokee Laredo Wide-track and bought a '79 Cherokee Chief for the drivetrain. I was planning to replace the Torqueflite 727 and Selec-Trac with the 79's Turbo 400 and Quadra Trac. The 83's tranny and xfer case are pretty tired. I was going to let the 83's existing 360 remain and rebuild the 79's next year sometime. Are there any other hidden demons that I need to be aware of?? Frank George '83 Cherokee Laredo '79 Cherokee Chief ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:09:49 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer questions <> Did you get Jim Blair's note on the bushing on the end of the crank? The 79 and earlier motors had a bushing on the end of the crank that will damage the torque converter on the 80 and up trannies. <> ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 00 12:20:45 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: FSJ's On Film] Speaking of FSJs in movies (oh brother, the recurring thread from hell returns!) I saw 3 FSJs, four-door, white, 70's style, JUMPING over a sand dune in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Michael JPhil78888-at-aol.com wrote: > I can't remember, but has anyone mentioned the FSJ on movie "Remo > Williams...."? > > The weak of heart may have to cover their eyes because I think it gets > totaled.... > > > Later, > Jamie - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 00 12:38:59 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Rear door questions,] extremy-at-earthlink.net wrote: > '80 Wagoneer here, > I have to decide what to do with the rear door. > The window doesn't work and a crank kit is near $200(not installed). > Is there any possibility that a set of rear doors is available, such as > off of 2-door Suburban or the like, that will be a close fit? > Just wondering, > GH If you find a junkyard rich in older FSJs you might find a manual rear crank for MUCH less than $200. We run across 'em here in CO a lot. Or, you could try to fix the rear window. One possible cause is a bad safety switch which you can bypass. It'd be 100x easier to fix the rear window than try to fit a set of non-fsj doors to your fsj. Far faster to look for a manual crank & guts than find an extremely rare Wagoneer with the rear double doors (heard of one such truck in a junkyard in 3 years of being on various lists). Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: 18 Dec 00 12:51:48 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer (cherokee) questions] Yes, you'll need to swap both axles to 79 style, with passenger side offset. Is it worth the effort...? Up to you. I'm happy keeping my 727 but swapped the NP228 (86 GW) with an NP208. I hear tell a 727 can be rebuilt with HD components to the point where it's quite stout. When mine goes out I'll give that a go. Michael "George, Frank" wrote: > Is there a way around this? I have an '83 Cherokee Laredo Wide-track and > bought a '79 Cherokee Chief for the drivetrain. I was planning to replace > the Torqueflite 727 and Selec-Trac with the 79's Turbo 400 and Quadra Trac. > The 83's tranny and xfer case are pretty tired. I was going to let the 83's > existing 360 remain and rebuild the 79's next year sometime. Are there any > other hidden demons that I need to be aware of?? > > Frank George > '83 Cherokee Laredo > '79 Cherokee Chief > > > ------------------------------ > Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:09:49 -0800 > From: john > Subject: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer questions > > <> > Did you get Jim Blair's note on the bushing on the end of the crank? > The > 79 and earlier motors had a bushing on the end of the crank that > will damage > the torque converter on the 80 and up trannies. > <> - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 15:41:52 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: CALENDAR UPDATE - NEED SOME FSJ FACTS CH RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com writes: >> August 2001 fact - In 1979 the Wagoneer Limited debuted, signaling the reintroduction of a true luxury-based FSJ << Rich, The Limited 1st appeared during the '78 model year. I think it was a '78 1/2 deal because I don't think it was around at the beginning of the model year. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 15-Dec-2000 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:42:49 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: FSJ's On Film] A: If anyone spots any of these FSJs in movies, and gets a clip of them (jpeg or gif), send it to photos-at-photopoint.com and in the subject and body of the message put Account: carnuck-at-webtv.net Then drop me a line saying what they are from. (Don't scan too heavy, or they will bounce!) >>From: michael.shimniok-at-usa.net Speaking of FSJs in movies (oh brother, the recurring thread from hell returns!) I saw 3 FSJs, four-door, white, 70's style, JUMPING over a sand dune in Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Michael JPhil78888-at-aol.com wrote: I can't remember, but has anyone mentioned the FSJ on movie "Remo Williams...."? The weak of heart may have to cover their eyes because I think it gets totaled.... Later, Jamie - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that           is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 12:53:23 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer (cherokee) questions A: Maybe use the TH400 with a Jeep NP208 and Chev NP208 input shaft and input gear? (I don't know, but I recall someone mentioning this to me awhile ago when I almost got a '79 Wagoneer) From: Frank.George-at-owenscorning.com (George, Frank) Date: Mon, Dec 18, Is there a way around this? I have an '83 Cherokee Laredo Wide-track and bought a '79 Cherokee Chief for the drivetrain. I was planning to replace the Torqueflite 727 and Selec-Trac with the 79's Turbo 400 and Quadra Trac. The 83's tranny and xfer case are pretty tired. I was going to let the 83's existing 360 remain and rebuild the 79's next year sometime. Are there any other hidden demons that I need to be aware of?? Frank George '83 Cherokee Laredo '79 Cherokee Chief                 ------------------------------                 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:09:49 -0800         From: john         Subject: fsj: Re: jeep wagoneer questions                 <>                 Did you get Jim Blair's note on the bushing on the end of the crank? The                 79 and earlier motors had a bushing on the end of the crank that will damage                 the torque converter on the 80 and up trannies.       <> ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 16:08:05 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: slushbox shipping could run around $200 or so... it would be shipped on a pallet more than likely. doesn't sound like it would be cost effective, but thanx for your generosity... we should be able to find someone willing to give it a good home. :) john On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, Gaines, Kenneth L. MM2 (SIMA-ING) wrote: >-->I am in Corpus Christi, TX. Like I said, all I would ask for the parts is >-->the cost of the shipping because I don't want them to accumulate in my front >-->yard. I don't know how much the shipping cost of something like that would >-->be. The transmission is in decent shape and I know for a fact that the QT >-->box works very well. >-->Let me know if you want them. >-->Ken >--> >-->-----Original Message----- >-->From: john [mailto:john-at-virtual-cafe.com] >-->Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:31 PM >-->To: full size jeep list >-->Subject: fsj: slushbox >--> >--> >-->where are you and how much for them? >--> >-->If you're not up near Seattle it's not worth the bother, >-->I can pickup a guaranteed 727 for about $125 and someone is >-->giving me an np219, already have the driveshafts for them... :) >--> >--> >-->john >--> >--> >-->Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:54:42 -0600 >-->From: "Gaines, Kenneth L. MM2 (SIMA-ING)" >-->Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Re: [1FSJ] I need another Jeep now... >--> >-->I will also soon have a 1981 727 slushbox and QT that I might be persuaded >-->to part with. Anyone interested? >--> >-->------------------------------ >--> >--> ---- >--> >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com >--> don't leave life without Jesus, please... >--> Snohomish, Washington USA >-->------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1144 **************************