From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 21 10:50:44 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, December 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1149 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: [RE: RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery] fsj: Re: Wagoneer Work Re: [Re: [RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery]] fsj: Tailgate Hinges fsj: 360 Water Pump Re: fsj: 360 Water Pump fsj: Re: 79 Cherokee for sale Re: [Re: fsj: more Cherokee questions (a little lengthy)] fsj: Re: Mostly older NOS FSJ parts for auction Re: [RE: [RE: RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery]] fsj: Re: what to look for? Re: [fsj: New exhaust for Wag] Re: [RE: [RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery]] fsj: to listers down under... fsj: Valve cover tag decoding fsj: trannys and such Re: fsj: Valve cover tag decoding fsj: back to work fsj: heater hose FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 10:07:39 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: RE: [RE: RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery] A: Both my NP208s and the '84 NP229 had the detent switch for the 4x4 kight in the dash (Elmo's worked in 4 lo too! No bulb in the Edrive hole on Elmo or Blackie) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:15:08 From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: Re: Wagoneer Work >>>>>i also grinded and sanded down some of the other rust that is on the >>>>>body. ITS BONDO TIME!!! after i do that it will be time for a big paint job. I have been using a lot of Bondo, but it seems that it attract moisture... even after sanding to bare metaal and more.. during a hot day at 6000 feet... even less moisture right a year later, the rust was back.... Next repair i used JB weld... it even comes in shop size, Time will tell, but the gas tank is still holding since this summer! ALWAYS carry JB weld on the trail As for electrical, fuses first, short next, test for continuity after removing the dimmer switch.... also disconnect the battery before! Cheers Michel 74 wag _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 00 11:45:53 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: [RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery]] How hard is that, and what's involved? IOW, what tool would I use to lift the body and hold it 'up' while rolling a new frame under? Michael Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) wrote: > A: Why not swap bodies if the frame is good? > > From: michael.shimniok-at-usa.net (Michael Shimniok) > "George, Frank" wrote: > Gas tank too?!? That swap is looking less and less likely. > Not 100% sure. Best to do some measuring around the tcase and driveshaft > to see if it'll have enuf clearance. > Can't remember the rear. I'd assumed it was a Dana, but maybe I'm > thinking of the 79. One more thing to limit my options. Looks like I'll > be selling a Chief drivetrain to pay for a locker. > If it's 80-83 it'd be AMC20. > night and found it labeled as a NP208. There are no vacuum connections > on the case and the shift linkage doesn't look like the linkage shown in > Chilton's and Haynes (no vacuum diaphragm). I verified my findings with > a jpeg on the wagoneers.com site. Maybe someone swapped out the original > xfer case?? > Yup. You have an NP208. Your shift pattern for the floor lever is 2HI, > 4HI, N, 4LO if memory serves. I am EXTREMELY interested to know how it > lites up the 4wd lite on the dash. I just put a 208 in my rig in place > of a 228 and know I'll miss the 4wd lite feature. I would be most > appreciative if you could find that out for me. Does it also lite up any > lite when the lever is as far up as possible (4lo) such as a 4lock or > Edrive lite? > So, you can remove those SelecTrac badges. :) > You might be able to jerry rig your 2wd/4wd switch to activate the front > axle. You need to find someone on this list or another one with an 80-85 > SelecTrac FSJ to figure this out. Or you might be able to get a vac pump > from sears and apply vacuum to each of the three nipples on the front > diff and see if you can hear anything happening or if you can tell if it > locks it up. Or you may need to plug the other two and apply vac to one. > Route accordingly. :) The big black ball on the firewall center behind > the motor should be the source for vacuum for the selectrac switch. > I'm sure you can jerry rig it in time for the snow... > Michael > --- > Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:32:49 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: Tailgate Hinges Carl, I pulled a tailgate a couple months ago, I think I've got the hinges. I'll send 'em to you if you send me your address. - - Landon ============== Last night I started to replace the window and began to disassemble the tailgate and in response to all the attention she has been receiving lately PITA decides to bust a tailgate hinge. So this is my latest dilemma. Where can I find a set of tailgate hinges? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:39:45 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: 360 Water Pump Frank's post reminded me. I went to Autozone. They can order the GMP - 1040 P aluminum water pump. It's 79.99. Can't remember who, but someone on the digest looked into this product significantly, and had high praises. I will definitely get one next replacement time. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 12:18:17 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 360 Water Pump A: How about this instead? (Off http://www.partsamerica.com Shameless plug! ) 1980 JEEP CHEROKEE V8 5.9 Liter 360... Your Search Results for Water Pump GMBC1101040 $29.99 [Water Pump] Std. W.P.; OE # 3234427 Limited Lifetime* There is an additional $6.00 core charge on this product ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:32:35 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 79 Cherokee for sale passing this along to a couple of FSJ lists. :) thanx, john On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 Zubz548-at-cs.com wrote: >-->I have a 79 Cherokee that I am selling. If you know anyone interested my >-->E-mail is zubz548-at-cs.com It is basically stock 360v-8 auto air I think >-->original paint,it has a bad rust spot behind right rear wheel well and a >-->couple spots on the flares other than that it's solid. it runs and drives but >-->needs some work. I bought it to fix up but the transmission on my good jeep >-->just went out so I need to sell. I'm asking $1700.00 it goes in the truck >-->trader Tuesday. Thanks for any help. John Winston-Salem NC >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 00 15:04:04 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: more Cherokee questions (a little lengthy)] Someone once mentioned that slapping it in R/D right away would put a shock on various components. *shrug* Well, I just throw it in N for about 30 seconds before putting it in gear. Usually cures the slippage-when-cold problem for me. And of course it's a bad idea to idle for long in P as the fluid isn't circulating thru the cooler in this position... Michael Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) wrote: > A: Slippage in a 727 when cold usually means low line pressure due to > leaking internal seals. I used STP engine oil treatment in mine to bump > the pressure up, and I put it in gear for a full minute before driving > away. > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche > http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 17:04:22 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: Re: Mostly older NOS FSJ parts for auction Mike Dillon writes: >> Maybe it is just me and I am not sure of what the definition of "is" is when he says it "is a nos jeep" part. << I wonder if the box was "dimpled" and that's how he knew it was NOS? :-). Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 20-Dec-2000 ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 00 15:14:09 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [RE: [RE: RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery]] "George, Frank" wrote: > Hadn't gotten it beyond 4HI to N yet (any suggestions). I can't > understand why I can't get N or 4LO unless there is a problem with > linkage adjustment. Does the front diff have to be locked? Might be linkage. Could be necessary to add fluid to the tcase. Or might just be necessary to move the vehicle or driveshaft a little. I can't be sure cuz I don't have driveshafts on my 208 rig yet so shifting is VERY easy. :) > As for the light, there's a wire coming from a connector in the housing. > It looked similar to a reverse detent switch in a manual tranny. I > wasn't paying too much attention at the time. I might be able to borrow > a digital camera and email pics to you if you're interested. That's be great! Don't kill yourself, but if it isn't a lot of trouble to do that sometime in the next month, that'd be super cool. Thanx for the info. Might be that I find the connector on mine if I look hard enuf for it, too. > You betcha. Maybe I can fabricate a Selec-Command-Trac Badge. Or would > that be Collec-Trac? ;-) Ha! There ya go. :) > I was thinking along these lines. Unfortunately, I haven't found any > vacuum nipples to attach to; only 3 holes next to the diaphragm. Oh. That stinks. Maybe Jim's suggestion of using a screw to force it locked all the time would be best. No vacuum to worry about at all. > This months JP magazine has an article for swapping vacuum differentials > to a mechanical switch. The company that makes the kit lists a Dana 44 > kit for GM (or Ford). I'm thinking of calling them and seeing if its > compatible with AMC/Jeep. Kinda pricey though. (~$230) Also looking at > mechanical hubs. Ow. Forget that. $230 is outrageous. Jim's suggestion is probably under a dime in cost. :) Honestly I'd rather swap in a D44 from an 85+ FSJ than do a manual disconnect gizmo, of course the local yard here has plenty of D44 wagoneer sized axles for well under $100. > Of course, the two black > marks in the parking lot were for purely scientific reasons ... Oh, of course! :D Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 14:41:38 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: what to look for? On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Lutin Plunder wrote: >-->Hey John, >-->I got a friend who is looking a buying a jeep (he >-->caught the bug from me), here are the two he is >-->looking at >--> >-->1976 Jeep Cherokee, Black exterior, black interior, >-->completely herculinered interior floor, raised 4 >-->inches, mag wheels, 31' all terrain tires, new: >-->starter, alternator, ignition module, battery, upraded >-->to power rear window with defrost (206) 242-6584 price? >--> >-->1979 Jeep wagoneer, 360 cid, qudratrac, trail package, >-->good glass, runs great, great body, (360) 659-7119 price? both sound good... the Cherokee, if a WideTrac, would have a bit more value as a collectable. both will have the th400's and older style xfr cases. 80 and up will get you the new process stuff. the 76 and 79 if both v8's will be virtually identical... >-->since you are the resident expert ;) I thought I'd ask >-->you what should I look for/at to make sure these are >-->in good shape? If it was an XJ i'd know but with >-->those old behemoth's I'm just not sure. normal stuff... nothing to really look out for as such. Value is determined by condition, both phyisical and mechanical. If it's straight and rust free that's a really good starting point, mechanical stuff is pretty simle... >-->P.S. on a side note hopefully after christmas I'll get >-->the rest of my lift (a set of OME 2.5" coils and >-->springs along with the budget boost I have know for a >-->total of about 4.5") cool. you'll get the ride and the lift... excellent. :) >--> >-->===== >-->Rob "Lutin Plunder" Dome; A+, Network+ >-->1987 Jeep Cherokee Utility >-->Dana30-4.0L-BA10/5-NP231-Dana44 >-->2" lift in front and 2.5" lift in the rear >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 00 16:11:26 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: New exhaust for Wag] It's hard for me to be brief. Here goes... Experiment 1: 86 Grand Wagoneer. With a rattling OEM cat, rusty tailpipe, a few days to go before Moab and a lack of sanity, I had a shop bang together a 3" aluminized exhaust system using a hi flow cat, brand unknown, and Magnaflow muffler (straight thru, standard housing, lots of insulation). The sloppy Y pipe and unnecessary bends still irk me and had some driveshaft clearance problems. But, top end increased dramatically. Noise was excessive for a few months then quieted down (maybe I went deaf). Above certain rpms, exhaust gets very quiet. Nice feature/coincedence/quirk. Has the AIR tube. Still no rust showing after 2 yrs. Cost was a whopping, overpriced, $700. Ow!!! Truck sounds VERY hot from the curb even with a super lame motor. Experiment 2: 85 GW. Done right by the PO. They left the Y-pipe alone, nice bends, quality work. 3", hi flow cat, Flowmaster muffler, No before/after comparison available. The truck hauls the mail at hwy speeds. Does pretty good for a 360 with tall gears and 130k miles. Don't recall if the 85 has the AIR tube but probably does. Sound is typical low mellow performance V8 sound except it gets a little loud at some hwy speeds. Truck sounds good from outside but wouldn't draw lots of attention. Experiment 3: theoretical. When I've done the desktop dyno analysis on a standard 360 with bolt-ons, it is surprising how little difference headers make. Probably due to low redline more than anything. A cam will do far more for you. The heat issue would worry me. Conclusions: Consider 2.5" exhaust, might work better, easier to repair, use 2.5" tips to deal with off-road tailpipe carnage. Or try RR exit with turned down pipe ala oem, also helps water xing. Or run thru sheet metal, if can be sealed against fumes. 3" works but may be too much. Don't touch the Y-pipe, have 'em graft in right after Y. Aluminized recommended. Go Flowmaster for quieter, mellower sound and good performance or Magnaflow for something only half as obnoxious as glasspacks. No other engine mods necessary but for yuks, try a hi flow air cleaner housing ala Edelbrock. Save your header money for something else or buy a Javelin and put a 401 and headers in it. :) MHO based on personal experience. Hope it helps. Michael "Landon Tesar" wrote: > you mentioned a new exhaust system for your 360 powered wagoneer, that > was successful. You said to leave the Y-Pipe in place, and I've also > read on the digest that the exhaust manifolds are somewhat efficient, so > for the revs we live at, no need to go to headers, though I was > wondering about Doug Thorley Tri-Y design, anyway, can you give more > details ? What brand of catalytic converter ? Does it still have the > tube that comes back to the AIR system ? Is that removeable ? How much > were the items individually ? Why 3" and not, say, 2.5" ? What brand > muffler ? Does your system do a 90 deg. turn behind the right rear > wheel, or does it go straight back ? > Did you do any other engine mods to accomodate the freer flowing exhaust > ? > > Thanks for any more info, as I'm contemplating this exact upgrade. > > - Landon - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: 20 Dec 00 16:25:09 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [RE: [RE: Re: fsj: Cherokee Xfer Case Mystery]] Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) wrote: > U: My experience has been with limited slip in muscle cars. I've always > heard that lockers have bad manners on the street. Can I tow a trailer > if I have a locker in the rear? That's a good question, one I hadn't considered. If I turn the corner with my Lockrite with the gas down, the tires go "ark-ark-ark" cuz the vehicle I guess is lite enuf that it can allow some tire slip. I try to avoid this cuz no doubt I'm putting stress on the axles. With an extra 500-1000# of tongue weight on the back end, I don't think it would be a good idea to accelerate hard around a corner because a lot more force would have to build up in the axle to get the tires to slip. Seems like you'd be asking for trouble. I'm just guessing. Does this seem to be way off base? > A: Axle tubes bending are the biggest concern due to small diameter, but > welding on gussets cures that! I ran mine 120 miles w/o oil (a week > after I got it, thanks to Q-no-Lube in Smokey Point, WA) and it was > smoking when I pulled over. I only had some spray lubricant that I put > on to get me home (I was near the US/Canadian border when I found out) > That axle sounds like a 747 on takeoff as the speed increases, but the > new owner ignores it like I did for 20,000 miles. Anyone try welding on gussets? I am still debating whether I want a rare 80's WT 20 in the rear or if I should try to mix'n'match a D60 and go thru the hassle and expense of converting to 8-lug up front and 16" wheels. The D60 is worlds stronger, but with stiff tubes and aftermarket gears I would expect the 20 to be stronger than a D44 without losing lots of clearance. Anyone have suggestions, opinions? Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 20:19:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: to listers down under... I'm looking at a job with a company from Australia, http://www.opentelecommunications.com/ I'll probably visit with them next week in their location up here in Washington state. They're running Solaris and looking for an Admin... :) Who knows, this might be an opportunity to visit. They also have an office in Nederland... I should be so lucky... ;) I'm interested in finding out exactly what "boiling the billy" is all about. :) Please let me know off list what you think of them and if I should run: away fast, slow or towards them. :) later, john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX/ http://wagoneers.com/UNIX/Courses.html http://wagoneers.com/pages/ComputerSurvival-101.html UNIX is user-friendly; it's just picky about who its friends are. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.freegift.net/ http://www.wagoneers.com/ - ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:02:26 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Valve cover tag decoding I've got this tag off of an AMC v-8 valve cover I'm trying to de-code. My '71 TSM is a little sketchy on this. Tag: 605P16 I think it's off a '73, but I don't know what displacement the P signifies. Can anyone help me out with this? Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 21:34:56 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: trannys and such I'm giving more thought to installing a Torque Flite in my '83 J10. Jim Blair and I measured my T-5 and I think we figured it's the same size... that means all I need is a flex plate, torque convertor, floor shifter and the tranny... already have the tranny cooler. :) I think I may even have the AT style brake pedal under the house. :) My back has been acting up again and I'm dealing with sciatica again. If I get into any kind of traffic it really bothers me... but not as bad as it did in my xj. :) My only concern is losing the ability to bump start and losing overdrive and of course the resultant loss in fuel economy... But with the Howell TBI kit, which Lord willing I'll get installed over the Christmas break, I should still have a net gain over what I'm experiencing now. And no Ray, I won't be selling the T-5 right away... :) I will keep my NP208 though. The idea of going to an NP219 is also there... especially if I get that new electric locking True-Trac too... well, first the TBI kit, then the bedliner spray, paint and then either an AT and the True-Trac... maybe... time just keeps on marching along... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 23:54:04 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Valve cover tag decoding A: The P means 360 I'm pretty sure. From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com I've got this tag off of an AMC v-8 valve cover I'm trying to de-code. My '71 TSM is a little sketchy on this. Tag: 605P16 I think it's off a '73, but I don't know what displacement the P signifies. Can anyone help me out with this? Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 00:29:06 -0800 From: "brian and molly johnson" Subject: fsj: back to work well the craft shop opens tomorrow so it's back to work on the wag. the engine comes out of the 79 and hopefully goes back in the 82.I have from 1:00 unitl 10:00 pm to work will let y'all know how it goes tomorrow.at $4.00 per hour for the bay and $2.00 a day storage i can't afford not to get it done tomorrow...i guess we'll see how it goes Brian, Ft. Lewis, Wa Ps.... I never thought i'd have to pay to do my own work on my own vehicle....man it sucks not being able to work on cars in my carport. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 07:57:35 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: heater hose funny thing happened on the way to work. Heater blower motor wouldn't work - hasn't for a couple weeks. colder today than usual. Halfway to work - 8 miles - blower comes on - mmm, toasty. 7/8 way to work - Hey! I'm up to 215 degrees and climbing...now the heater's blowing cold. Uh-oh. I shut her down at stoplights and hobbled to work. Blew a hole in an old heater hose. Oh well, that'll be easy to fix. Lots of steam on a cold morning. will hit the NAPA store at lunch. - - Landon 89 GW Austin "we're getting rid of our gov'ner today" TX ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1149 **************************