From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 21 13:18:04 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, December 21 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1150 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: 4-Lo question fsj: Message Board Re: fsj: Valve cover tag decoding fsj: Re: New exhaust for Wag fsj: Re: 4-Lo question Re: fsj: Re: New exhaust for Wag Re: fsj: Message Board Re: fsj: 4-Lo question Re: fsj: 86 GW Shop Manual fsj: $800 J10 fsj: fsj-less...a memorial to the Ghost Re: fsj: 86 GW Shop Manual fsj: Re: 81 waggoneer... fsj: Re: 258 AMC oil pressure Re: fsj: trannys and such fsj: Cherokee in Chicago FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 08:01:26 -0600 From: "Landon Tesar" Subject: fsj: 4-Lo question So, with my less than absolutely desireable transfer case - NP229 - if I'm pulling a boat out, and put it in 4-Lo, on a cement boat ramp, and the rear tires spin(wet surface), but the fronts don't, is that gonna toast the transfer case ? This is where I really need the gearing - could drop the front driveshaft, I guess.... - - Landon 89 GW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:34:32 -0500 From: "Bruce McMinn" Subject: fsj: Message Board Has anyone given thought to replacing this BBS format with a message board, like what Art Bittman has for Land Rovers on his "Guns and Rovers" site? I like this board's content, but the format is driving me nuts- even in digest format!! Bruce McMinn 89 GW 73 LR ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:58:28 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: Valve cover tag decoding According to my '71 manual, N is 360 and H is 304. Those are the only engine sizes listed. Seems like P ought to be 401 or 390 or something other than 360. Ben In a message dated 12/20/00 11:54:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, Carnuck-at-webtv.net writes: > A: The P means 360 I'm pretty sure. > > From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com > I've got this tag off of an AMC v-8 valve cover I'm trying to de-code. > My '71 TSM is a little sketchy on this. > Tag: 605P16 > I think it's off a '73, but I don't know what displacement the P > signifies. Can anyone help me out with this? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:43:31 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: New exhaust for Wag Last year I replaced my cobbled up exhaust on my '71 Wag with a 2.5" Walker exhaust from Napa. I ordered "stock" tubing for a '78 and the "stock" muffler which was a Dynomax heavy duty RV muffler. The Y pipe went together a little hard cause I didn't leave everythig loose before clamping up. The sound is just right, but the muffler diameter is too large to tuck up behind the frame well. It's not really an issue since I only get off pavement a few times a year. Seems like the cost was around $300 which is about what a shop would have charged me except that now I'm intimately familiar with my exhaust. The 2.5" tubing is squashed a little at the transfer case and clearances are pretty tight. I wouldn't want 3" squeezing past there under any circumstances. The bottom line is that I'm pretty happy with my reasonably priced, reasonably sized, garage assembled exhaust. If I had it to do over again I'd get a lower profile muffler. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco In a message dated 12/21/00 5:58:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: > Date: 20 Dec 00 16:11:26 MST > From: Michael Shimniok > > Conclusions: > Consider 2.5" exhaust, might work better, easier to repair, use > 2.5" tips to deal with off-road tailpipe carnage. Or try RR exit > with turned down pipe ala oem, also helps water xing. Or run thru > sheet metal, if can be sealed against fumes. 3" works but may be > too much. Don't touch the Y-pipe, have 'em graft in right after Y. > Aluminized recommended. Go Flowmaster for quieter, mellower sound > and good performance or Magnaflow for something only half as > obnoxious as glasspacks. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:23:39 -0500 From: "Ray (lists)" Subject: fsj: Re: 4-Lo question The NP229 is a great case. I would like to see a "high locked" position, but I haven't really missed it. If you want to pull your boat out in low, go for it. Just don't drive it that way for very far. Also, keep a good grip on the steering wheel because the thing will want to buck around. To be truthful, though, I see no reason to use low range when pulling a boat out of a concrete ramp. My dad did it all the time with his old Q-track Cherokee ('78, I think) - and never used low range or e-drive. Low range may make it a bit easier to pull the boat, but locking the transfer case won't help on concrete at all. All four wheels have good traction, so 4WD high unlocked (viscous) will give you more than enough traction. Ray Drouillard - ----- Original Message ----- From: Landon Tesar To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 9:01 AM Subject: fsj: 4-Lo question > So, > with my less than absolutely desireable transfer case - NP229 - > if I'm pulling a boat out, and put it in 4-Lo, on a cement boat ramp, > and the rear tires spin(wet surface), but the fronts don't, is that > gonna toast the transfer case ? This is where I really need the > gearing - could drop the front driveshaft, I guess.... > > - Landon > 89 GW ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:33:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: New exhaust for Wag A: Not sure yet what mine will cost, but I'm getting it done by Midas in Canada for less than $400 US. Mail message Sender: owner-fsj-at-digest.net From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Date: Thu, Dec 21, 2000, 12:43pm (PST+3) To: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: New exhaust for Wag Last year I replaced my cobbled up exhaust on my '71 Wag with a 2.5" Walker exhaust from Napa. I ordered "stock" tubing for a '78 and the "stock" muffler which was a Dynomax heavy duty RV muffler. The Y pipe went together a little hard cause I didn't leave everythig loose before clamping up. The sound is just right, but the muffler diameter is too large to tuck up behind the frame well. It's not really an issue since I only get off pavement a few times a year. Seems like the cost was around $300 which is about what a shop would have charged me except that now I'm intimately familiar with my exhaust. The 2.5" tubing is squashed a little at the transfer case and clearances are pretty tight. I wouldn't want 3" squeezing past there under any circumstances. The bottom line is that I'm pretty happy with my reasonably priced, reasonably sized, garage assembled exhaust. If I had it to do over again I'd get a lower profile muffler. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco In a message dated 12/21/00 5:58:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: Date: 20 Dec 00 16:11:26 MST  From: Michael Shimniok  Conclusions:  Consider 2.5" exhaust, might work better, easier to repair, use  2.5" tips to deal with off-road tailpipe carnage. Or try RR exit  with turned down pipe ala oem, also helps water xing. Or run thru  sheet metal, if can be sealed against fumes. 3" works but may be  too much. Don't touch the Y-pipe, have 'em graft in right after Y.  Aluminized recommended. Go Flowmaster for quieter, mellower sound  and good performance or Magnaflow for something only half as  obnoxious as glasspacks. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:50:25 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Message Board A: Sounds like you need to be on the FSJ board on Yahoo.com The rest of us seem to like it this way (at least I do!) All the old messages are available to be seen on http://www.wagoneers.com and http://www.digest.net ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 10:59:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 4-Lo question A: If you spin 1 rear tire in 4 low, it means your front axle isn't engaged! (it's locked front and rear in 4lo) Or something BAD is wrong with your front axle! It's spinning one end only in 4 hi that is bad on the transfercase. From: r16884-at-email.sps.mot.com (Landon Tesar) So, with my less than absolutely desireable transfer case - NP229 - if I'm pulling a boat out, and put it in 4-Lo, on a cement boat ramp, and the rear tires spin(wet surface), but the fronts don't, is that gonna toast the transfer case ? This is where I really need the gearing - could drop the front driveshaft, I guess.... - - Landon 89 GW ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:00:15 -0500 (EST) From: Tom & Lisa King Subject: Re: fsj: 86 GW Shop Manual Hey, The MR253 is nolonger available from this source. However, they told me it is available from: FaxOn 18004582734 Mr. Irv Bishro 18005443312 For my '86 GW I order the Mechanical manual from FaxOn for $69.00. They also have the body manual for $29.00 Tom King - ------Original Message------ From: JeepNut To: Brian Wall Sent: December 20, 2000 4:11:28 AM GMT Subject: Re: fsj: 86 GW Shop Manual Dyment info Jeep Service Manuals Where to order: By phone, Mon-Fri 8-4:30 E.S.T: 800-890-4038 (Voice), 216-572-0815 (fax) Or by mail: Jeep Eagle Publications c/o Dymet Distribution Services P.O. Box 360450 Strongsville, OH 44136 ....and thank Jim Blair...the info is clipped from one of his previous posts... Ask 'em for MR253 at Dymet. It is the last SJ shop manual I believe. It was new in '84 so small things like heater controls, gauge layouts, you've got a voltmeter not an ammeter... and the like are slightly different... but it is an INVALUABLE resource. It does have several smaller sections in the back of the manual with details by the year about major systems changed from year to year.... Armed with that, the Haynes or Chiltons and ask Dymet for a set of electrical schematics for your year ($12 I think and worth it. several electrics changed in the 2 years) why you'll be ready to wreak all kinds of havoc! JeepNut Brian Wall wrote: > As a new owner, I'm quickly discovering the value of having a factory shop > manual. I remember seeing here previously a source for those. Can anyone > again provide that info? Or, does someone have one for this model they'd > consider letting go? > B Wall > '86 GW (no name yet - considering "mystery machine" given it's complex > nature) > OKC - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Tom King Orlando FL ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 14:34:58 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: $800 J10 Near Portland, Indiana. My nephew is selling it 'cause he has too many projects. He's in high school and has a limited budget. I tried to talk him into keeping it but he's already comitted to a '57 Dodge pickup that he's done a real nice job with. But, it's not done and he needs the money. I saw the J10 in August but don't remember much useful information. It's a 6 cylinder, NP208, T-176 with an 8' bed. It seemed to run okay. At the time I wished we lived in the area so I could buy it and thought it would make somebody a good farm truck. If interested call (219)726-8486, ask for Dusty, and tell him "Uncle Ben" sent you. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 11:36:52 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: fsj: fsj-less...a memorial to the Ghost Well, d-day (donation day) came yesterday. I came home after work to find the jeep gone...it's normally parked in front of my house, on the street. Now, the spot is vacant. Mixed feelings...mostly sadness. I bought the '79 Jeep Wagoneer for $1500 in August, 1994 from some guy in SD. He used it to pull a travel trailer to Alaska and back. It had the nickname of 'The Grey Ghost' Here are some of the high and lowlights of my ownership...go ahead and read it...it's long, but entertaining... - - I survived an engine fire...the hi-idle solenoid wire (~12 gauge) was rubbing on the AC bracket and the insulation finally wore through, starting a little fire. The vacuum hoses, the CTO switch and a couple spark plug wires were destroyed. This happened in northern MN in the middle of nowhere at 11:00PM in the middle of winter. I was able to blow out the fire with two big breaths of air (I have good lungs). We got someone to tow us 1 mile to our destination where I was able to get it started the next day with all the spare parts I carried in the back. Moral: Tie down all wires (John has said this before)...Always carry spare parts (electrical, vacuum, anything). - - I had a rear tire (BFG AT) blowout, in MN, in January...0 degrees. A couple bad things happened...I only had a bottle jack...I was able to get it under the axle, but it didn't lift high enough, so I had to put my tool box under the axle and let it down...at that time a tow truck came by and lifted the back of the vehicle. That made it easier, but I still ruined my toolbox. Unfortunately, during the ordeal, I chose the wrong gloves and got frostbite...the kind that causes blisters...big blisters. 7 of my 10 fingers got it...these blisters, on a couple fingers, covered the entire finger. The Doctors were concerned about losing one of the last joints. I don't know if it was the physical therapy, the ibuprophin or just dumb luck that I escaped all bad consequences. Yes, I have recovered 100%...no feeling loss, no finger loss, no deformity...thank GOD!!! They are a susceptible to numbness when out in the cold. Did I ever tell you why I moved to Portland, OR??? - - In Northern MN, we were wheeling on some of the forest roads at night...again 0 degrees. The heat was on high, the lights were on bright and the music was cranked. We were having a blast!!! At the time, I forgot that my alternator was failing a bit...didn't charge as low RPM. Just as we were ready to call it a night, the jeep stalled. Uh, sorry, no juice in the battery. It was a two mile walk back to the cabin where we got another vehicle and was able to jump mine...lucky! - - In northern MN, specifically Walker, MN for the 1996 Eel-Pout festival, the Ghost was emulating an ice-breaker. The lakes in northern MN in Feb have 5-6 feet of ice on them. For this festival, people will drive their RVs on the lake. While its safe, that is a lot of weight for the ice...cracks form and water comes up to the surface because of the weight. Is some places the water is two feet deep...a little unnerving, but again safe. Driving around the 'roads' on the ice is pretty cool...spraying water and making waves. The morning after, we had to go back out to the lake, to deconstruct the Tee-Pee that was our shelter for the festival. Well, the only way I knew to get back was on the same roads that had all the water on them. I got to the spot of the water crossing and found that the sub-0 nighttime temps has frozen the water...uh only about 3 inches at the surface. Well, with a jeep full of people, I inched forward and immediately broke through. I thought well, got to go for it, so I put the hammer down and began just churning away at the ice. The tires were spinning cracking the surface layer and slowly the jeep would lurch forward. The water was deep enough that the bumper was ramming the icey surface. Blocks of ice were flying on the hood of the Jeep. INTENSE!!! We finally get to the end of the 100 yard stretch of water...my nerves were shot!!! We all get out of the Jeep, looked back at the floating, jagged ice chunks and start hooting and hollering. I could not believe we made it! We walk up the road a bit and find yet another stretch of ice covered water...again, the Ghost made it through that no problem. Once we got the Tee-Pee torn down, I noticed that all the traffic to the lake was coming down another road...with no water. I just guess some people are less adventuress than some... Well, let me just say, I followed them back...I had enough! The Ghost was the talk of the trip...everyone loved it!!! - - On Christmas day 1996, my Jeep turned 200,000 miles. I got a picture of the odometer when it happened...going down the road at 50mph...pretty cool. I spent a lot of time working on the vehicle and learned a lot! It wasn't much to look at (the MN winters took it's toll on it), but it was a reliable daily driver. In fact, during the last two years, I did no work on it. I'm going to miss the ol' gal. I'm doing some soul searching...trying to determine what the next vehicle is going to be. Some current thoughts are: a 70's wide-track Cherokee, an early 70's Bronco, a vintage Land Rover, a late 80's Land Cruiser. Whatever it's going to be, I'd like it to be in great shape, I'm not much of a body man. I am a competent mechanic, although not as knowedgeable as Jim B or Michael B...I know my way around a vehicle. I am going to remain on the list for a while...I've known you guys for 4 or 5 years...can't quit cold-turkey, right?. I'll let you know what happens with my next vehicle...I've got time...I'm thinking about getting something next summer. Take care...Greg FSJless in Portland... Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 12:12:45 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 86 GW Shop Manual A: I got my copy of MR253 in August from Dyment. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:01:58 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 81 waggoneer... On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 jeffreyh-at-visionair.com wrote: >-->John, >-->Bear with me. I just purchased my first jeep and it is an 81 wag as well. >-->I am in need of suggestions for parts for a restoration project. Can you >-->help? variety of sources, including the Jeep Dealer. Wrecking yards, the FSJ list, JC Whitney, NAPA and so on... the parts are out there... details on getting on the list below, there is a "jeepnut" in Memphis... he's on the list... ;) let you fingers do the walking. ;) john >--> >-->---------------------------- >-->Thank You, >-->Jeff Holshouser >-->Tennessee Account Executive >-->VisionAIR >-->jeffreyh-at-visionair.com >-->Office - 800.882.2108 x4109 >-->Mobile - 910.262.8841 >-->E-fax - 801.729.9231 >--> >-->Visit our website at www.visionair.com >-->---------------------------- ====================================================================================== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe fsj end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/FSJ_filters.html http://www.wagoneers.com/book-info.html http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ====================================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:04:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 258 AMC oil pressure On Thu, 21 Dec 2000 CarvNMarbl-at-aol.com wrote: >-->Hello. I have a '76 CJ-5 jeep and it came with a 258. This engine never held >-->very good oil pressure, [about 10lbs idle, 20lbs at 2-3k]. I replaced the >-->engine with another 258 from a sprit ['81 model], and again the oil pressure >-->is still somewhat low. I installed a high-output oil pump and that raised the >-->oil pressure some [about 15lbs idle, 30lbs running]. Would you have any idea >-->why the oil pressure in this kind of engine is low? Thanks, John Hollis no idea, but unless you're having specific problems those pressures aren't bad. GM engines run often on 8lbs at idle... I've built an engine with high oil pressure and ended up with oil leaks... :) The guy that bought the rig lowered the pressure and all is well. :) Unless you're hearing lifters collapsing and have at least 10lbs at an idle, I wouldn't worry about it. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:08:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: trannys and such On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, JeepNut wrote: >-->Hi John, >--> Did you and Jim happen to check a measurement that will tell you how far >-->back the shifter sits from the front face of the tranny? (T5) >--> I am still a little fuzzy on trannys and wonder if you know... >--> Do T5's use different shifter sections? Dependent upon application? >-->Wondering for instance if a Mustang T5 and your J10 T5 have the "same" >-->shifter? And therefore would be dimensionally equivalent. >--> Thanks >--> Steve nope... but I'm guessing that what I have in my J10 is a Mustang tranny. I should check with the Jeep dealer that did the rebuild. From what I understand they obtained a tranny from a guy in Seattle that builds them. Won't know for sure until I crawl underneath or yard it out. :) An Automatic presents one problem though, where to put the shift lever. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 13:15:23 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Cherokee in Chicago Paul Harvey's for what it's worth today mentioned this "masked man" in Chicago that shows up at 3:30am and plows his driveway. He said it was a Jeep Cherokee with a plow on it. He didn't mention whether it was a Full Size Jeep or an xj. The guy's name is Bert Delude, or something like that. He's a mechanic, in his 40's and missing a leg. Anyone in the Chicago area can get a picture of the guy's Jeep I'd love to post it on http://wagoneers.com :) BTW, you can get paul Harvey news and comments on the web at: http://www.komoradio.com/ news at around 8am and 11:45 Seattle time, and the rest of the story at 5:55pm. I've been listening to Paul Harvey since the '60's... I grew up in the Chicago area. Also, Chicago just won some kind of award for archeticture or something like that... Too bad it's so flat and cold, and then flat and humid. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com **** http://wagoneers.com don't leave life without Jesus, please... Snohomish, Washington USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1150 **************************