From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Dec 30 12:42:25 2000 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, December 29 2000 Volume 01 : Number 1161 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: engine options? fsj: a 6 door XJ? fsj: I can second that... fsj: a V8? fsj: 5.2L V8 gets another vote fsj: cooling the transplant... fsj: passing this good news along. :) fsj: a vote for the 4.0L Re: [fsj: a vote for the 4.0L] fsj: Re: [1FSJ] engine options? fsj: Re: xj: compression test... fsj: Re: Grand wagoneers Re: [Re: [fsj: pudding gone... which tranny?]] Re: [Re: [Re: [fsj: pudding gone... which tranny?]]] fsj: AMC V8 4 barrel intake FS fsj: Re: [1FSJ] engine options? fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: xj: compression test... FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:36:24 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: engine options? At 08:00 PM 12/28/00 -0500, WTraut4178-at-aol.com wrote: > Suggestions? > >If money is as tight for you as me.... you may want to consider removing your >floorboards. LOL aka... flintstone efect >Willie after talking with the wife this evening... well, I think a pair of tin snips might fit within the budget... :) so far I'm expected to sell my 300SD, my Sun workstation and maybe my HP workstation... and I suppose all my spare FSJ and XJ parts... I was under the house today and found 3, or was it 4? dashboards under there... where's the rest of the vehicles? ;) rofl... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:40:18 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: a 6 door XJ? paul weitlauf emailed this to me... no instructions or info, but my guess is he wanted me to post it to the server for others to see... ;) http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/6-door-XJ.jpg of course he'll probably come back and tell me later that it was built in photoshop.... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:44:02 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: I can second that... >Strangely enough, their website is http://www.sharpline.com >go figure. >hehe >Karl, you're a nut. I can second that... ;) I can hardly wait to see what he's going to do with that '77 Wagoneer. :) Hey, I coulda used that engine now... ;) (just kidding... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:49:05 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: a V8? >Subject: Re: xj: engine options? >Find a V8 out of a ZJ or a Dodge Dakota...... >That would be my choice. >Bob Bob, are there any years to look out for? I know of a few folks with these engines, they seem happy, performance and economy are ok... The only problem I'm aware of in the ZJ's is the fuel pumps. I know of many that had troubles with them. Otherwise all seem happy with them. I'm not ready to pay $2,800 for a '96 GC with 66K on it though... of course I'll think about it for a couple days, decide to do it and it'll be gone... Isn't that the way it works? Or on the other side of the coin, I'll look at 6 Mercedes 300SDs, decide on one, buy it, then decide to sell it and no one will give me what I just paid for it... and I got a decent deal on it compared to the other ones I looked at... which reminds me... I forgot to call and place an ad AGAIN... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:50:51 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: 5.2L V8 gets another vote >Well personally I'm stuck on the 5.2L (318) Mopar. >Phil What's so special about it? I haven't been paying attention to the newer stuff... ;) Any years to be cautious of? Is $2,800 for a '96 with 66,000 miles, the automatic trans, xfr case and wiring/computers stuff too much? If so, what's a good price??? john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:53:54 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: cooling the transplant... >What's wrong with crossflow radiators? They cool better (everything else >being >equal, of course)... which is why almost everything these days uses one. >Besides, I'm sure if you really wanted to use a vertical flow rad with a 4.0L >in your truck because that's what's there, the 4.0L wouldn't care which >config >the rad was in as long as it will keep it cool. >Paul I don't think the XJ radiators are as good as the old vertical flow... I've got one from mine that just needs cleaning... doesn't seem like it passes heat as well as the tall vertical ones... It wouldn't take much to adapt the crossflow to the SJ front support. a couple of snips or a little work with a sawzall will make it work just fine. ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:55:54 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: passing this good news along. :) In case you guys didn't see this. *** BLUERIBBON ALERT *** BLUERIBBON ALERT *** BLUERIBBON ALERT *** BLUERIBBON COALITION, INC. NEWS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Paul Turcke, Esq. - 208.331.1807 Brian Hawthorne, - 801.484.3940 Don Amador, - 925.625.6287 Clark Collins, - 208.233.6570 DATE: December 27, 2000 RECREATION ACCESS GROUPS WIN LEGAL FIGHT SALT LAKE CITY -- On December 22 a federal judge gave pro-access recreation advocates a stunning victory when he ruled against a national preservationist group's legal effort to ban off-highway vehicle (OHV) use on millions of acres in Utah. After listening to six days of evidence and arguments, U.S. District Judge Dale A. Kimball denied a motion for preliminary injunction filed by the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance (SUWA) which sought to ban OHV use in nine popular recreation areas managed by the Bureau of Land Management (BLM). Beyond denying SUWA's request for an injunction, Judge Kimball granted a motion to dismiss filed by the Blue Ribbon Coalition (BRC) and the Utah Shared Access Alliance (USA-ALL) and ruled that the Court had no jurisdiction to consider SUWA's claims regarding the disputed areas. While BLM had opposed SUWA's request for an injunction, it failed to join in the recreational groups' motion to dismiss. "Hopefully this decision will help stop the 'management through litigation' model that seems popular with some activists," said Paul Turcke, lead attorney for the BRC and USA-ALL. "The court recognized that administrative agencies, not federal courts, are the proper place to create effective solutions to recreation management challenges." "Access groups have repeatedly rallied to assist the BLM in striking a balance between use and protection of public lands," said Brian Hawthorne, USA-ALL executive director. "The OHV community is often unfairly vilified by the media and wilderness advocacy groups. This decision provides an important step in the right direction away from that unfair stereotype." Don Amador, the western representative for the BRC, added, "We have long argued that effective solutions to recreation management are best reached when the agency involves all users and local interests in its decision making process. Perhaps this decision will have an impact on similar lawsuits filed by green groups against the BLM and Forest Service in other states and will convince the agencies to do what is right instead of doing what they think will avoid a lawsuit." "The BRC decided four years ago to start a legal action team to empower our member organizations to protect legitimate multiple-use access to public lands. I believe this legal victory in Utah shows just how important that commitment is as OHV recreation and government land agencies face a blizzard of 'ban-it-all' lawsuits filed by anti-access groups throughout the country," Amador concludes. The areas SUWA unsuccessfully sought to close to motorized vehicles include the San Rafael Swell, Behind the Rocks near Moab, Indian Creek in San Juan County, Wildhorse Mesa near Captial Reef National Monument, and the Coral Pink Sand Dunes. # # # The Blue Ribbon Coalition is a national non-profit recreation access group that champions responsible use of public lands. It represents over 1,000 organizations and businesses. 1540 North Arthur Pocatello, ID 83204 www.sharetrails.org a high resolution jpg photo file is available on request from brclark-at-sharetrails.org *** END ALERT *** END ALERT *** END ALERT *** END ALERT *** To Remove your email address from this list or to update your information or interests list it is easy. Simply go to the address below and unsubscribe or update: http://www.sharetrails.org/contact/contact.htm Shawn Crull <>< Vancouver, Wa 87 XJ 4-Door Limited, Dana 44 Rear. 1G battery/alt wiring. 31 10.50 15's on Stock Suspension, No rear swaybar. Custom Rock Rails and body coating. 1980 350(new) Silverado 10 Suburban. 33's. Grandma boards for now. John deer green. Brush guard. 1975 "Iron pig" Mucho work needed still. http://www.crullfamily.com Life is better in low range. - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 21:01:24 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: a vote for the 4.0L >From: samfans >Subject: Re: xj: engine options? >You hit the nail on the head...4.0 and AW4, one of the best combos for >medium to hard duty there is, and satisfies EVERY one of your >requirements..just try to find another combo that does ! >Bill >Biased 4.0/AW4 driver I can't argue about it... the little wagoneer has seen 206,000 miles of action and still doing fine. Problem I'm facing is the only 4.0L I found today had 170,000 miles on it and they wanted 2k for it... My first choice for SuperDawg would be a low mileage 91 and up 4.0L/AW4 and maybe an NP242... Second choice... open... 5.2L from a GC or Dakota comes up or maybe a 5.7L with the 700r4 or 4L60E... Price and mileage will make up my mind... that and how complete the package is... I'd love to be able to buy a rig that's been rolled... complete... that way I'd have everything I need and can move stuff over one piece at a time... buying the pieces and storing them will be a challenge... I'm gonna forget where things go. john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 00 10:31:57 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: a vote for the 4.0L] A junkyard up here over the summer had a 454 chevy with computer and something like 30k miles for about $4000. Throw in a 4L80E and you're on the way to tire-chirping happiness... :D Why not stay six with a 4.0L/AW4 and hook it up to the NP219? The bolt pattern on the 219 should match the 242 and it sounds like some years have 23 spline output. By the time you get the 'puters, benz, and parts sold, you'll probably have found just the setup you need... ? *shrug* Michael john wrote: > >From: samfans > >Subject: Re: xj: engine options? > >You hit the nail on the head...4.0 and AW4, one of the best combos for > >medium to hard duty there is, and satisfies EVERY one of your > >requirements..just try to find another combo that does ! > >Bill > >Biased 4.0/AW4 driver > > I can't argue about it... the little wagoneer has seen 206,000 miles > of action and still doing fine. > > Problem I'm facing is the only 4.0L I found today had 170,000 miles > on it and they wanted 2k for it... > > My first choice for SuperDawg would be a low mileage 91 and up 4.0L/AW4 > and maybe an NP242... > > Second choice... open... 5.2L from a GC or Dakota comes up or maybe > a 5.7L with the 700r4 or 4L60E... > > Price and mileage will make up my mind... that and how complete the package > is... I'd love to be able to buy a rig that's been rolled... complete... > that way I'd have everything I need and can move stuff over one piece at > a time... buying the pieces and storing them will be a challenge... I'm > gonna forget where things go. > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:49:56 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] engine options? At 01:10 AM 12/29/00 -0600, Mike Dillon wrote: >Hi John, > >OK , Now that we are dreaming, > >350CID Chevy Ram Jet Crate engine,( comes with computer, simple hookup) >700R4 Auto trans, >Jeep 208 transfercase with chevy 208 input gear. > >This should scoot you across the front yard in style. > >Mike D. ok, I'll bite, how much and where do I get this? john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:00:36 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: xj: compression test... At 10:58 PM 12/28/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: >john wrote: > > I'm not brand specific. I just want a low mileage fuel injected engine > > with an overdrive automatic that will bolt to my transfer case or attach > > to my driveshafts with minimal effort. ... > > really want to get the set matched, fewer headaches... I've had too many > > headaches during swaps to mess with matching stuff up ever again. :) > >If you want to mate to your 208 to avoid driveshaft/SYE conversions, then you >are going to be restricted to Jeep/Dodge offerings. GM used 208's - but they >had a different spline count (like 30 or more). The GM 208's, 241's and other >NP cases are slip yoke style like the Jeeps and later Dodges, so if you went >with a GM engine/trans/t-case you would have to deal with the driveshaft/SYE >thing. Thanx Paul. I've been standing by waiting for knowledgeable input. Both lists have plenty of expertise. The trick on the list is to troll for info. :) Someone else mentioned changing the input gear on the 208 to mate to a chevy as well. Might not be a bad idea to rebuild the transfer case while it's out... Sounds like sticking to the Jeep/Dodge solutions isn't too bad. Although a 5.7L chevy didn't sound too bad either. I hear the 5.2L V8's used in the dodge/jeeps isn't all that spunky... I wonder if the fuel economy will be as good as my 258... well, right now anything will be better, only getting about 13 to 14mpg with it... carb is acting up again. I remember driving in high school (73-75) and paying gas prices in the low >30's... and remember mowing lawns as a jr hi kid paying 19.9 cents/gal for >regular when the local stations had "Gas Wars" (now it seems like they have >wars to see how high they can drive prices) >Paul that confirms my memories... I was pumping gas in High School in '71 to '73, ranged from low .20's to mid .30's. thanx again, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:04:35 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Grand wagoneers At 02:00 PM 12/29/00 -0500, JVMIII-at-aol.com wrote: >John, >I bought a '90 Grand Wagoneer recently, and have had a heck of a time finding >any good resource for new or used parts. I've had several old diesel Benzes, >and eBay alone has pages and pages of good stuff. Do you know of any good >places to look on the net for stuff like wheels, center caps, interior and >exterior trim pieces, etc.? Any help would be appreciated. > >Thanks, >Jack McManmon >Norfolk, MA >jvmiii-at-aol.com the fsj list. otherwise it's search yards and papers... try body shops, and the jeep dealers. john ====================================================================================== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ====================================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 10:49:01 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: [Re: [fsj: pudding gone... which tranny?]] At 10:14 AM 12/29/00 -0700, Michael Shimniok wrote: >john wrote: > > with #2 hole in sad shape, swap imminent... all it'll take > > is the right engine, right price... no rush though, it's still > > running. :) > >Yah, sounds like you'd have to at least swap head gaskets maybe >lots more. :/ Ah, heck with it. Time to find a nice modern >drivetrain. > >Tho I gotta say, I don't EVER plan to swap an entire drivetrain >again in my life if I can possibly avoid it. One at a time from >now on. At the rate I'm going, Troubled Child will be operational >by March ... 2073. It's also the last time I swap in used >components. Once I get the motor running MAYBE it won't gush oil >this time. But who knows if the tranny is in any kind of shape. >The 208 is supposed to work fine, but who can say. Yah, next >time, I do one big component at a time, REBUILT only. :) > >Michael I've had trouble with NEW stuff, and rebuilt stuff... no guarantees. Shoot, if you buy a new car it can have problems... Maybe I should consider getting a horse... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 29 Dec 00 12:29:09 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: [fsj: pudding gone... which tranny?]]] john wrote: > I've had trouble with NEW stuff, and rebuilt stuff... no guarantees. > Shoot, if you buy a new car it can have problems... Maybe I should > consider getting a horse... ;) Good point. I guess that's why it'd make sense to do it piecemeal. Then you have a chance to fix one problem at a time. I dunno, I'm just bitter cuz my truck is still in the garage since 4th July. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 14:42:03 -0500 From: "MadMarx" Subject: fsj: AMC V8 4 barrel intake FS I have a stock 4 barrel AMC intake, Holley square bore pattern for sale. I got it pretty cheap and want to pass it on to someone who can use it. I was going to use it but I found an Edelbrock Performer cheap so I bought that. I am asking $75, but I will take offers. It is in good shape but needs to be clean up. It is located in Chattanooga, 37415 Mark ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 13:52:40 -0600 From: Mike Dillon Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] engine options? You can get one at your nearest Chey dealer, prices in the hot rod mags are in the $4400.00 range complete. I just have another thought that might be cool given that you like your straight sixes, Chevrolet is going to be releasing a new vortec straight 6 , from what I have read it is going to almost keep up with the v8's, has 4 valves per cyl , hemi head, and variable exhaust cam timing. This maybe the hot ticket but I don't think any will be in the junk yards until latter next year. Mike D. john wrote: > At 01:10 AM 12/29/00 -0600, Mike Dillon wrote: > >Hi John, > > > >OK , Now that we are dreaming, > > > >350CID Chevy Ram Jet Crate engine,( comes with computer, simple hookup) > >700R4 Auto trans, > >Jeep 208 transfercase with chevy 208 input gear. > > > >This should scoot you across the front yard in style. > > > >Mike D. > > ok, I'll bite, how much and where do I get this? > > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:06:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: [1FSJ] Re: xj: compression test... A: You need the trans to be '91 and newer for the 23 spline in an XJ. The input shaft on the 208 is swapable AFAIK with the Chev one (Chev ran their cases with RH driveshaft though) To get past emissions, Dodge really cranked down their horse power and upped the torque in the bottom end. A nice recam on one of the HO 5.2L (or better yet build up a 5.6L/340 with wet sleeves!) and do the throttle plate bore out and spacer to get mucho jam out of the motor. The 3.55 gears they ran with those BS Dodge OD trans that burn out every 50K weren't any help either! What's needed is a 4bbl throttle body and intake on one of those puppies! 17 MPG isn't much for one of those. At 10:58 PM 12/28/00 -0800, Paul W. wrote: john wrote: I'm not brand specific. I just want a low mileage fuel injected engine with an overdrive automatic that will bolt to my transfer case or attach to my driveshafts with minimal effort. ... really want to get the set matched, fewer headaches... I've had too many headaches during swaps to mess with matching stuff up ever again. :) If you want to mate to your 208 to avoid driveshaft/SYE conversions, then you are going to be restricted to Jeep/Dodge offerings. GM used 208's - but they had a different spline count (like 30 or more). The GM 208's, 241's and other NP cases are slip yoke style like the Jeeps and later Dodges, so if you went with a GM engine/trans/t-case you would have to deal with the driveshaft/SYE thing. Thanx Paul. I've been standing by waiting for knowledgeable input.   Both lists have plenty of expertise. The trick on the list is to troll for info. :) Someone else mentioned changing the input gear on the 208 to mate to a chevy as well. Might not be a bad idea to rebuild the transfer case while it's out... Sounds like sticking to the Jeep/Dodge solutions isn't too bad. Although a 5.7L chevy didn't sound too bad either. I hear the 5.2L V8's used in the dodge/jeeps isn't all that spunky... I wonder if the fuel economy will be as good as my 258... well, right now anything will be better, only getting about 13 to 14mpg with it... carb is acting up again. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1161 **************************