From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jan 5 00:06:28 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, January 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1170 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: oil drains Re: [fsj: quadratrac question - fluid...] fsj: RE: oil analysis Re: [fsj: quadratrac question - fluid...] fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1169 fsj: Iceland Jeepers - heads up... fsj: more thinking from Winnipeg. :) fsj: safety and the base auto shop... fsj: Low compressions fsj: Re: 360 in Seattle? fsj: Re: pulling weights fsj: light relays fsj: boo, broken glass fsj: Re: oil drains fsj: RE: Oil Drains FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:29:15 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: oil drains At 06:34 AM 1/4/01 -0600, Marshall & Kristin wrote: >I ran amsoil back in the mid 80's in a Surburban/g/350. I changed the oil >once a year and changed filters at 6 months. Some years I went 25,000 and >some year not. I sold the Surburan with 186,000mi on it. The compression >was checked before the individual would buy it and all cylinders checked >good. I am switiching my 350 SDL to amsoil, my Zetor Tractor, and my F-350 >power stroke also to amsoil. I plan on getting the same quality of service >from amsoil as before. >Marshall I've heard and read of a number of folks that have done this. Under the right conditions it works out great. I've got a sales video of a guy with a 600,000 mile truck that had never been rebuilt. They made him pay for a rebuild when he went to trade it in and found it within new specs! Pretty cool. If you drive your rig far enough to warm it up and change the filters as scheduled and don't have any mechanical problems, it's very possible... john... who someday will have a new car or engine to do this to... :) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jan 01 11:49:18 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: quadratrac question - fluid...] john wrote: > I've looked into finding a substitute for the QT fluid, as have > others... no luck. That's funny. I seem to recall a long time ago that there is a product that is intended to be used in place of Borg Warner 1339 QuadraTrac fluid, at a fraction of the cost. Any truth to the rumor? I'm just glad I don't have to carry Yet Another Fluid... got two 50cal ammo boxes full of fluids to do complete roadside fluid changes... Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 10:47:09 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: oil analysis The lab I've used is in Spokane. The kits used to be $10. I still have one but it's about 10 years old... ;} (of course it's a prepaid kit, it comes with a box, a bottle and a label, you apply postage and wait for the report. ) Oil Analysis Lab, Inc. PO Box 3928 East 1514 Sprague Spokane, WA 99202 Like Joe said it's not always cost effective to analyze the oil every time, unless you're running a fleet, over the road truck, taxi service or do a LOT of driving. When you have an older rig things happen that contaminate the oil, so for most of us it's easier to cut the suggested extended drain interval in half and still see some benefit of using the synthetic. (gas 25,000 miles would be about 12,500 or so, Diesel 15,000 would be around 7,500 miles). What you can do to make sure all things are ok is to do a couple samples as a baseline. You could do a fresh oil change, run it for 500 miles, take a sample. Then see what the report says... if it's good, then drive that oil for 10,000 miles or whatever is reasonable in your mind, and do another sample. The report tells no lies. :) If there is a problem you will even be given ideas on how to fix it. The shop in Spokane CALLED ME to tell me I had a bad injector on one of my Diesels!!!! They were right and I was amazed! :) Make sure you get a clean sample... just pretend you're in the army and you've been selected for a random drug test... ;) It helps to have a bypass filter setup with an oil sample fitting... otherwise you have to try to get a little out of the drain plug without losing a bunch... ;) (I suppose you could change the filter and get the drippings... hmm... interestings problem... is that a "good" sample??? ;) john At 01:02 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Steven B. wrote: >Perhaps you're right for your circumstances. Oil Analysis is a must for >anyone extending their drain intervals. Synthetic oil typically does not >"wear out" when operated under normal conditions under normal change >intervals. However it can become contaminated (i.e. leaking head gasket, >fuel dilution, silicon from a dirty air filter, etc.). Oil analysis will >detect these conditions as well as a bearing which may be "going out", but >has not yet failed. I do not use oil analysis for every oil change. For >those who follow the manufacturers recommended intervals, perhaps oil >analysis is not for you. However once every 30-40 thousand miles would not >hurt and might show a problem before it becomes serious. As for cost, it >varies. $15 to $20 USD is typical I would say. > >Hope this helps. > >Steve B. > >I've heard quite a bit lately on oil analysis. Where do you get it done, >and how much does it cost? What are the advantages of doing it versus just >sticking to the maintenance schedule? > >It seems like for most do-it-yourselfers, the money would be better spent on >just changing the oil, and all the filters (oil, fuel, air) more often. I'm >I missing something? > >Joe - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 4 Jan 01 13:03:03 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: quadratrac question - fluid...] How about part #8133854, "TCL-1" from Crown Automotive? Is it a viable replacement? Still available? Just going off an old source, didn't have time to check into it further. Michael john wrote: > I've looked into finding a substitute for the QT fluid, as have > others... no luck. - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 12:07:49 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1169 A: That must be another tank you have, because I have the '89 tank about to go into my J10, skidplate and all! Remember I gave you an AMC Eagle tank? From: john At 11:00 PM 1/3/01 -0800, James Blair wrote: A: Not sure if you saw my post, but I figured out the '89 XJ tank will fit where the spare tire goes in my J10 (hmmm.. before I chop up the '84 GW frame, maybe I should compare!) I think the tank from a Comanche will fit where the stock GW or J10 tank sits. (I did a quick looksee, but no measuring done yet) I have a couple different tanks here I won't be needing... a couple from datsun pickups, and the 89 Xj tank we parted out... john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:29:23 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Iceland Jeepers - heads up... >From: "Kubler, Michael R LT" >Subject: xj: Iceland Jeep >Aloha - >I've been lurking around here for awhile now, and am finally ready to ask >some questions. >I'm in the navy and am currently in Hawaii - come spring I'll be >transferring to Iceland (yeah, I know). What little I remember of snow and >ice from growing up in the Midwest has drained out of my mind from the years >of idling my life away on the tropical beaches. >I'm buying a new Cherokee via the NEX system (big price breaks for folks >going overseas, new vehicle will avoid some import problems, there are Jeep >dealers there so warranty...) >- - Anti-lock brakes or not? >- - What do I look for in snow tires? >- - " " in chains? >Thanks - >Mike Kubler There's at least one Full Size Jeep type there... :) "Siguršur Siguršsson" btw, where in the Midwest? I'm originally from Crystal Lake, IL, the wife from Mitchell, SD. :) I don't miss the snow, ice, slush, salt, hot humid summers... I'll take 9 months of rain, moss, mold, the occassional earthquake and volcano thank you... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:40:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: more thinking from Winnipeg. :) >Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 11:53:08 -0600 >From: "Randolph A Bennell" >Subject: xj: Hey John >I guess you are really determined to fix your truck the hard way. I do >admire that and wish you the best of luck in accomplishing it. If you really >enjoy that sort of work you will create something of real value to you >personally and a sense of real accomplishment. I know to some extent. I have >just spent the better part of the past 3 summers rebuilding a vehicle that >no one else will really want but I had a good time doing it. I spent a whole >lot more money than I thought I would however and I didn't change engines. I >just rebuilt what was there with better aftermarket parts. For the curious, >it is a 1980 Ford LTD with a 302. It started life as a lowly 2 barrel >version. I totally rebuilt the engine with the help of a local machine shop. >Block was hot tanked, bored and honed by the machine shop. Big ends of the >rods were resized and new pistons pressed on by the machine shop as well. I >installed a replacement crankshaft and bearings as well as a new camshaft >and cam bearings. I had the original heads done at the shop - some guides >replaced and the valves ground with 3 angle. Put on a double roller timing >chain setup and a new Edelbrock Performer aluminum (sp?) intake and a new >Edelbrock 600cfm 4 barrel carb. Also had to have the FMX transmission >rebuilt. I have been driving this for the past month since I sold my >Suburban. It rides really nice and handles pretty well for the sort of >vehicle it is. I have a $4000 Canadian in it and know I can't get that back >but I did enjoy the process. It had been about 25 years since the last time >I rebuilt an engine. It also gave me the excuse to acquire a few more tools, >like an engine stand and a parts washer. >So, John, my intent was not to criticise but just to suggest you really >think about your options. >Randy driving the old beater in Winnipeg and waiting for the 4Runner Randy, I appreciate what you're saying, been there, done that and was written up in Four Wheeler. :) It takes a LOT longer than you'd think and costs a lot more than you hope for. And sometimes the swap has annoying residual problems that are minor but annoying... I've either undone the swap or sold it later. Since I've had about 12 or so Full Size Jeeps, and about 5 xj's. ( http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html ) I know that I keep coming back to the FSJ's. The problem is fuel economy is pathetic... The rear window is a pain... otherwise they're great. So when I got to thinking about it I decided that I wanted a short wheel base J10 with a 6 cylinder with AC and an AT. I found one, but of course it came with a 5speed... Easily fixed... except that I don't want another 727. :) I want an automatic 4 speed with overdrive... :) Well, if I do that the engine moves forward 2 inches, or the xfr case back two inches. I had the Howell kit, was ready to do it on the 4.2L, but the #2 cylinder is bad... so why fix the old technology when I can get a decent late model Fuel Injected motor? :) In my mind moving motor mounts forward 2 inches is a weekend task, at most. A little work with the hot wrench and the buzz box and voila. :) The wiring will be another weekend task. In the grand scheme of swaps installing a late model Fuel Injected engine into a J10 will be pretty straightforward. :) BTW, I ended up in the January 1992 and 1993 Garage Scenes of Four Wheeler with my '67 Wagoneer and my '85 xj with a Turbo Diesel. :) The other thing is that I plan on keeping this J10. So taking 3, 4 or even 6 months to switch it over to fuel injection and an AT w/ od is worth the effort. :) I have no shortage of vehicles to drive either... :) thanx for the thoughts, and if you've been on the list I've given similar advice to others on both the fsj and xj list that doign a swap/conversion is a time consuming and expensive proposition. :) ttyl, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 12:43:48 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: safety and the base auto shop... >From: "Paul W." >Subject: xj: Safety Class? >Now they require a safety class? OMG! The Safety Nazis have even attacked the >hobbyist! Is no one 'safe' from the ever expanding reach of Big Brother? >Paul give me a break... they had the requirement for safety forms back in the 70's... ;) btw, I got the idea for the grease pit in my house because the one at Cambrai Fritsch Kaserne in Darmstadt had one. :) I kind of miss that "benefit" of being in the military... john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:53:01 From: "michel balea" Subject: fsj: Low compressions 84 Gwag, here we go cylinders #8, 6, 4 and 2 read 90,60,100 and 140 No changes from dry to wet measurements. I asked many months ago, and looked at valve motion... cam cover off and could not see any abnormalities.... Do i try to retorque.... why do i ask... the head looks so clean... no varnish, the engine has a plate epoxied onto the bloc... looks rebuilt. The whole beast has power! Off course all that because i failed smog, at 2500 High HC = 201 vs 180 max allow. Failed CO 0.16 vs 0.20 average. pass at idle HC 55 vs 40 average. pass High CO = 2.38 vs 1.20 max allow. Failed EGR and others are operationnal, timing is a tad lower than spec 14 vs 19 on the sticker Any hints welcome... Cheers Michel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 18:11:36 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 360 in Seattle? At 06:05 PM 1/4/01 -0800, T0NY wrote: >hi there my name is Tony and i live in Puyallup..i came across ur site >on the internet,i own a 77 cherokee chief and was wondering if you might >have or know someone with a good running 360 for sale? the one in there >now is cuput..once again great site and thanx i'll be looking for your >reply....Tony wrecking yards or paper... I'm looking for a good 4.0L for my '83 J10. :) john ====================================================================================== To subscribe to a list on digest.net, EMAIL majordomo-at-digest.net, no subject needed, in the body: subscribe [ fsj | xj | diesel-benz ] end (note: select only one of the options in the brackets) You will need to reply to an authentication message. Add a "-digest" to any of the lists to subscribe in the digest mode (messages are grouped, less traffic). Please do not send HTML, special characters, images, SPAM, attachments or stylized text to the lists. The "FOUR" List Rules: 1) NO flames. 2) NO foul language. 3) keep it Family oriented. 4) keep the subject list oriented. to post, email [xj | fsj | diesel-benz]-at-digest.net to unsubscribe, email majordomo-at-digest.net in the message: unsubscribe (list name) (your email) end ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE ====================================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 17:28:07 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: pulling weights At 11:03 PM 1/4/01 +0100, Jong, Harry de wrote: >Dear John, i have a jeep wagoneer 1975, for the duth covvermant i need to no >how muth the can pul ( caravan ) I need a official docoment from the jeep >factoty of importeur whit this information to have my lycens plates. > >Whit frendly recards Harry de Jong Utrecht \ Holland Guten Tag. Das 1975 Wagoneer mit eine Klass III (drei) haken / haltung 2.267962 Metric tonne, oder 2267.962 kg (5,000 US pounds) mit 340 kg auf die zunge. Ich habe keine amtlich urkunde. Aber nur das verkaufen stuffe. Ich habe eine eigentumer buch von 1981, aber ich kann nicht das finden. :( However, here's what I did find in that Sales literature: The ratings depend on the hitch. There are different classes of hitches specified for the Wagoneer/Cherokee. Die Zunge = tongue (the part that connects to the trailer hitch) Class I - 2,000 pounds, 200 pounds tongue weight Class II - 3,500 pounds, 350 pounds tongue weight Class III - 5,000 pounds, 750 pounds tongue weight this rating requires an equalizing hitch receptacle. The Class III rating requires the V8, Automatic Transmission, and heavy duty cooling. SO, your 1975 Wagoneer should be capable of pulling 5,000 pounds with the correct Class III hitch. (das ist 2.267962 Metric tonne oder 2267.962 kg ) =============================== There is another class, Class IV that has a rating of 7,500 pounds with a tongue weight of 1,200 pounds, but his is only for the J20 pickup truck. There is also for the J20 the 5th Wheel, total weight 8,000 pounds with a tongue weight of 1,850. The ratings appear in several places, the Owners Manual, various shop manuals and sales literature. I have a variety of information from several model years and all seem to say the same thing. 2,000 pounds, 3,500 pounds or 5,000 pounds, with the correct hitches. - ----------------------------- Auf Weiterscrieben, john meister snohomish, washington USA wo Jeeps Rost nicht, aber Mehltau! :) (Ich wunsch meine Deutsche ist nicht so schlecht so sie English. :) (haben sie eine Worterbuch? ;) (Meine frau und mehr hat funf jahre im Deutschland bleiben, von 1975 bis 1981, Frankfurt und Darmstadt... :) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2001 21:38:11 -0500 From: Michael Baxter Subject: fsj: light relays john writes: >> relays are good. :) even cheap relays. :) << I should mention don't even think about using stater relays. They're often lying around or cheap at the junk yard but, starter relays are not 100% duty cycle and they will fail quickly. Michael Baxter, MBaxter-at-Compuserve.com-OR-N7OVD-at-arrl.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 04-Jan-2001 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 23:55:08 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: boo, broken glass Hi group, Well I managed to break the tailgate glass on the Waggie tonite... A search reveals a site listing as follows... only a partial listing... 1985 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass $75 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass 4X4,TIN,ELE $75 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass IN GATE HEATED $75 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass - $75 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass 4DR,TIN,ELE $75 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass HEAT,NON-PRIV $65 1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass $60 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass $55 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass $55 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass $55 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass - $50 1988 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass TNT GOOD BLU- $45 1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass 4DR,NO HEAT $45 1985 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass TNT GOOD BRN- $45 1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer Back Glass TNT GOOD BRN- $45 Now my questions are.... 1. What does TNT GOOD BRN TNT GOOD BLU 4DR, TIN refer to do you think? Did earlier Wags have a bronze color tint as compared to later versions? TIN means tinted maybe? 4dr...? I've never really realized there was a difference... I am kinda leaning toward the ad showing HEAT, NON PRIV... but what does that mean? Was any of the glass "privacy glass" i.e. heavily tinted stock by the factory??? 2. Some of this glass is pretty cheap. $45 and 50 bucks, even heated. It goes as high as $250.00. Difference would be ??? I could image a sand pitted windshield or something but wouldn't the back glass pretty much be the same from one vehicle to the other? Thanks all! I'll let you know how my cardboard replacement holds up in the a.m.! Thanks to above that there's no rain and we'll be over 30 tomorrow for the first time in several weeks, up to about 50 on Saturday! JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 21:58:58 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: oil drains the only thing "green" about my vehicles is the mold growing on them. :) john At 06:49 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Dan Jacobs wrote: >john... who someday will have a new car or engine to do this to... :) >------------------------------------------------------ >http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ >Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... >jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------- > >DON'T EVER BUY A NEW CAR, JOHN!! WE WON'T BE ABLE TO RECOGNIZE YOU IN A NEW >CAR!! DON'T DO IT!! It's bad!!! > >Repeat after me: > >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" >Recycling cars is good for the planet >I live near Seattle, I must act "green" - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2001 22:00:23 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Oil Drains rofl... you're outta control dude... about the only way I could hurt you is if I drove into you with my J10. :) (the 300SD wouldn't do any damage...) thanx for the kind words though... john At 06:39 PM 1/4/01 -0500, Dan Jacobs wrote: >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Just to add my experiences to what John has said.... > >I would like to thank John in particular for all his inputs. I >read them all and believe that this list is a great resource. > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >YAHOO! Give it up for John!! Everyone should give him a huge pat on the >back for the work he does for this list and the resources he has and shares. > >Also, lets not forget about ourselves, selflessly giving what we know to >others so they might find happiness. > >Let's just agree that we won't call this the "Church of the Diesel Benz" >list, OK? > >Diesel Dan, your "Should I be facing Mecca when I crank this thing over? >Would that help?" man in Vancouver, WArshington. > >P.S.: If you ever do meet John in person, don't pat him on the back too >hard, my left arm is starting to get better, but I can't go back to work >yet! What was that move you put on me, John? The Snohomish Super-twist >with a full gainer and a half-hitch? - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1170 **************************