From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri May 4 12:14:19 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, May 3 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1306 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [Re: [fsj: Re: Klune V]] fsj: little wagoneer totalled... wife is ok... fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] little wagoneer totalled... wife is ok... fsj: RE: FSJ Express fsj: Post Snipping fsj: RE: FSJ Express? fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1305 fsj: FSJ Express!! fsj: X-Files... fsj: RE: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1305 fsj: Re: Ignition woes continue fsj: RE: Re: Ignition woes continue FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:50:51 -0400 From: "Ray (lists)" Subject: Re: [Re: [fsj: Re: Klune V]] I found the US Gear website. http://www.usgear.com/ It has a nice reference page with gearing ratios of common transmissions. http://www.usgear.com/dr_ratio.htm Ray Drouillard - ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Shimniok To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [Re: [fsj: Re: Klune V]] > I found an article in Sep 98 4WOR about the Mountain Gear underdrive > overdrive box. It has three low ranges + overdrive in the same box and is > built similar to big rig gearboxes, ie it is very stout. > > Features 3.258:1, 2.575:1, 1:1, and .79:1 It is air shifted. Price was > quoted at $3500. Sounds like it can be shifted into O/D while moving. > They also offer simpler direct/underdrive units. Perhaps they offer an > O/D only unit. Brabnod Machine 424 3 Rd Ste 84 Clifton, CO 970/434-1694. > > Michael > > "Ray Drouillard" wrote: > > I'm actually planning on giving my GW an overdrive transmission for > better > > highway RPMs. I'm looking at either buying John's world-class T-5 (once > he > > pulls it and verifies that it's world-class), or perhaps an NV4500. > > > > The thing about an NV4500 is that it needs an adapter on both ends. I > can't > > get around needing an adapter for the engine side of it unless I get > another > > engine. OTOH, the Kluge (I mean Klune) box seems to come in lots of > flavors > > to avoid the necessity of an adapter. If I can get one that'll fit > between > > the NV4500 and the NP229, I can pay $1800.00 for an extra two tears, > instead > > of maybe a $800.00 for something that doesn't really add anything to the > > vehicle. I'll have to ask them if they make an underdrive box that will > act > > as an adapter. > > > > I also just discovered this site today: > > http://www.boyceequipment.com/ > > It sells drivetrain parts refurbished from military equipment, I have > been > > looking at those Honeywell deuce-and-a-half axles for a while. With a > > 6.72:1 gearing ratio and driveshafts that attach above the center of the > > axles, they would be a very nice addition. > > > > Of course, the transmission that I am really lusting after is the > Richmond > > Gear R.O.D six-speed. This beauty goes from 4.05:1 in first gear to > > something like 0.76:1 in sixth gear - all in nice small steps :) Adding > > that to my Jeep would boost my low end and give me better freeway gears. > AA > > doesn't make an adapter for it, though :( I wonder if the Klune box > would > > do the trick. > > > > Like a certain eunuch programmer we all know in Snohomish (or is it > > Freedom?) county, I have a lot more ideas than money right now. > > > > > > Ray Drouillard > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael Shimniok" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 7:46 PM > > Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: Klune V] > > > > > > > The problem for me is that low diff gears don't fit in with my > > requirements. > > > Rather than building a dedicated rock rig, my goal has been to build a > > > comfortable, somewhat updated, daily commuter with the capability of > > tackling > > > trails rated 4 out of 5 without breaking a sweat, preferably while > > carrying a > > > lot of people & gear to a neat location. And without significant > effort or > > > 'adaptation' required by yours truly. :) > > > > > > I could run 4.56's but suddenly my daily commuter is spinning near > redline > > at > > > hwy speeds. An OD tranny is the 'best' solution with low diff gears, > but > > I > > > really don't want to go to all the trouble and expense of adapting > one. I > > > prefer bolt-in so the 727 stays. :) > > > > > > If the crawler box doesn't jeopardize the life expectancy of my > > drivetrain, > > > it'd offer a best of all worlds solution which I like-- improved > engine > > > braking for AT, improved off-road climbing performance, 2lo, minimal > > > adapters, > > > relatively simply hookup, and no negative effect on hwy rpms, and > nearly > > > bolt-in installation (for me anyway). > > > > > > On the other hand, not building a dedicated rock rig, maybe $1800 is > too > > much > > > to pay for a crawler box that only gets me one additional low range > > gear... > > > I've got other upgrades to finish first anyway so I have plenty of > time to > > > consider my options. :) > > > > > > Michael > > > > > > "Ray (lists)" wrote: > > > > I tend to agree with you. I neglected to mention inertia, getting > > wedged, > > > > and all that stuff because the post was getting long enough as it > was. > > > > > > > > My main point is that the actual engine torque is only a small piece > of > > the > > > > puzzle. Shoot, you can break things with the engine turned off if > you > > hit > > > > things just right (wrong). > > > > > > > > My solution (based on engineering, not experience) would be to beef > up > > the > > > > axles and use the lowest axle gearing available. With low axle > gearing, > > > the > > > > rest of the drive train is under less stress. In fact, geared hubs > > (like > > > > the Hummer) would be really cool. You would have to make up for it > with > > a > > > > good overdrive unit way upstream, but all of the pieces in between > would > > be > > > > running with less stress (but faster). > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray Drouillard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Roy Kesmodel > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:30 PM > > > > Subject: fsj: Klune V > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ray, > > > > > > > > > > I'm not sure I agree with you entirely. You still have to contend > > with > > > > > inertia and friction. I am speaking of the inertia and friction > of > > the > > > > > drive train components themselves. Put a big enough engine in and > > punch > > > > it > > > > > and you will tear all kinds of things to pieces before the power > even > > > gets > > > > > TO the ground. I refer to cases where ujoint yokes have broken > from > > > > nothing > > > > > more than the force of a "popped" clutch. The same yoke could > hold if > > > the > > > > > clutch were let out a little more slowly, even if the tires still > > > > 'smoked'. > > > > > Yeah, I realize that the breakage could have happened due to the > > > > > instantaneous friction of the tire and road, but I still submit > that > > you > > > > > could tear things to pieces due to friction and inertia if you > applied > > > > > enough 'instantaneous' force to the system. > > > > > > > > > > Just having fun with theory :-) > > > > > > > > > > Roy > > > > > '82 FSJ Cherokee Laredo 'Tank' > > > > > '79' Olds Toronado 'Old Whitey' > > > > > '83' Buick Regal Estate Wagon 'Brick' {recently deceased} > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:02:53 -0400 > > > > > > From: "Ray Drouillard" > > > > > > Subject: fsj: Re: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point is that the hardware has to stand up to the torque that > can > > be > > > > > > transmitted to the ground. Unless you bolt the wheels down, you > > aren't > > > > > > going to break anything no matter how big the engine if the > > drivetrain > > > > > > will > > > > > > handle the amount of traction that you have. > > > > > > > > > --- > > > Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net > > > "For every complex problem, there is a solution that > > > is simple, n > > --- > Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net > "For every complex problem, there is a solution that > is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 13:51:48 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: little wagoneer totalled... wife is ok... My wife is ok, she's going to the Chiropractor in a few minutes... has whiplash... getting her to the Chiropractor immediately to help her avoid a lot of the pain. I waited a couple days to get to the doc when I hit that tree... this won't feel good anyway you go... :( The little wagoneer is sitting in the yard, it's definitely a total loss. The passenger door won't close, the rear axle is moved, the entire frame rail on the passenger side is folded. I will buy it back from salvage value and part it out. Not sure what we'll be replacing it with... my guess is my wife will definitely want another XJ. Everyone that saw the accident commented how well it did and how much worse it would have been... The wife was driving up the Clearview hill, south on State Route 9 at about 50mph when an 18 year old shot out of the gas station parking lot by the Cathcart store at 160th... the little wagoneer was hit in the right front side... the rear axle was stuffed against the back fender, the rear spring was destroyed on the passenger side. Driveshaft was spit out... looks like the tailshaft on the xfr case is damaged... It makes very funny sounds when it's moved... She spun around end ended up facing the way she came in the center turn lane. A paramedic was a witness and checked her out right away. She was in shock, but able to call me. I was on a call with HP trying to fix my server and thankful that I had a second line, and that I answered it... The kid was cited for failure to yield right of way. Only a $119 fine. We're not upset and don't expect any problems with the insurance company. Although since the kid has state farm it could be a pain... we're with the Hartford, they're supposed to be pretty good... Well, I guess this means I'll be keeping my 300SD for certain. Looks like I'll be putting SuperDawg back on the road with a bad engine for a while... :( The saab is probably rebuildable... most of the damage is to the front end before the drivetrain, although he lost his radiator... If he had gotten in front of the little wagoneer the outcome would have been much worse for him. Getting broadsided on the driver's side is one of the worst things that can happen... pix at: http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/littlewagoneer/may3-2001-xj-vs-saab/ we're heading to the Chiropractor, see ya later, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:32:34 -0400 From: "Ray (lists)" Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] little wagoneer totalled... wife is ok... I'm glad your wife is OK. Things like this make you glad you're driving something substantial - though I can't help but think that an FSJ would have come out somewhat better. It's a good thing you're taking her to the chiropractor. That'll make a big difference. Gee, after driving all over the place to pick up an engine and transmission, it looks like you have a surplus right now. You might want to drop the entire engine/transmission/transfer case assembly into Superdawg. Having select-track would be cool (assuming the little wag had select track). You won't even have to goof with the electronics much because everything can come out in one piece. You might have to pull some wires out of the harness, but that's no biggie for a crypto ranger :) Ray Drouillard - ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 4:51 PM Subject: [FSJ-List] little wagoneer totalled... wife is ok... > My wife is ok, she's going to the Chiropractor in a few minutes... has > whiplash... getting > her to the Chiropractor immediately to help her avoid a lot of the pain. I > waited a couple days > to get to the doc when I hit that tree... this won't feel good anyway you > go... :( > > The little wagoneer is sitting in the yard, it's definitely a total > loss. The passenger > door won't close, the rear axle is moved, the entire frame rail on the > passenger side > is folded. I will buy it back from salvage value and part it out. Not > sure what > we'll be replacing it with... my guess is my wife will definitely want > another XJ. Everyone > that saw the accident commented how well it did and how much worse it would > have been... > > The wife was driving up the Clearview hill, south on State Route 9 at about > 50mph when an 18 year old shot out of the gas station parking lot by the > Cathcart store at 160th... > the little wagoneer was hit in the right front side... the rear axle was > stuffed against the back > fender, the rear spring was destroyed on the passenger side. Driveshaft > was spit out... looks > like the tailshaft on the xfr case is damaged... It makes very funny > sounds when it's moved... > > She spun around end ended up facing the way she came in the center turn > lane. A paramedic > was a witness and checked her out right away. She was in shock, but able > to call me. I was > on a call with HP trying to fix my server and thankful that I had a second > line, and that I answered it... > > The kid was cited for failure to yield right of way. Only a $119 fine. > > We're not upset and don't expect any problems with the insurance > company. Although since > the kid has state farm it could be a pain... we're with the Hartford, > they're supposed to be pretty good... > > Well, I guess this means I'll be keeping my 300SD for certain. Looks like > I'll be putting SuperDawg > back on the road with a bad engine for a while... :( > > The saab is probably rebuildable... most of the damage is to the front end > before the drivetrain, although > he lost his radiator... If he had gotten in front of the little wagoneer > the outcome would have been > much worse for him. Getting broadsided on the driver's side is one of the > worst things that can happen... > > pix at: > http://www.wagoneers.com/XJ/rigs/littlewagoneer/may3-2001-xj-vs-saab/ > > we're heading to the Chiropractor, > see ya later, > john > ------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------- > > > To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com > Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:31:45 -0700 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: fsj: RE: FSJ Express JC WRote: >This is something I was thinking about after hearing of an >engine getting transported across the country via FSJ relay. >So, my thoughts are that each of us that are willing to do >that for fellow FSJ'rs could decide what the maximum range >we are willing to cover in an FSJ relay parts transfer and >post that to somewhere on the web or the yahoogroups sites >so that people that are trying to get parts moved around can >make contacts and plans for it. Did you see my post a few weeks ago about the "torch relay" we did several years ago for the Jeep-L mailing list? We moved an engine cross country for a member just by passing it from one member to another. It was a pretty neat experience. I suggested this a few weeks ago when someone was mentioning then had a running engine but were on the wrong side of the country. Scott Phillips '84 JC-7 '76 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:34:03 -0700 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: fsj: Post Snipping I am subscribed in Digest Mode and was just wondering if it would be possible for people to cut out the non-essential parts of the posts that they are replying to. This will help people to quickly sort out the information, it will reduce the wasted space in digests that are currently filled iwth the original post even tho. the thread has changed to a completly different subject AND it would make searching the archives a LOT more friendly. Thanks, Scott Phillips '84 CJ-7 '76 Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 17:53:03 -0500 From: Ken Gaines Subject: fsj: RE: FSJ Express? I would be willing to help out if there is something that needs to go somewhere in Texas. I could go as far as...say...Amarillo or Lubbock to pick up pieces-parts and deliver them in this state. The little Jeep (bobtail affectionately named "Smokey") would be happy to haul stuff like axles or engines. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of JC Jones Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 11:26 AM To: FSJ Digest Subject: fsj: FSJ Express? This is something I was thinking about after hearing of an engine getting transported across the country via FSJ relay. So, my thoughts are that each of us that are willing to do that for fellow FSJ'rs could decide what the maximum range we are willing to cover in an FSJ relay parts transfer and post that to somewhere on the web or the yahoogroups sites so that people that are trying to get parts moved around can make contacts and plans for it. For example: I live in Golden, CO. Hauling ability would be anything that will fit in a Longbed J10 or can be hauled with a Tow Bar. Also, I could relay a trailer with standard lighting connections and a 2" ball requirement (Currently Class III but soon to be Class V). I would be willing to fetch and deliver parts to the following areas: North - Westminister, CO. South - Sedalia, CO. West - Idaho Springs, CO. East - Aurora, CO. What I was thinking is that for certain items, such as an entire Jeep, or things of the like, maybe working out gas compensation for long trips, heavy items, etc. I realize that not everyone on the list would be willing to do this type of thing, but in conjunction with the CFSJA list, IFSJA list, 1FSJ list, FSJeeps list, etc. we could probably work out enough people willing to do this to actually make cross country parts shipping a reality. We could call it the "FSJ Express". Just a thought. *============================================* * JC Jones * * 76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired * * 84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore) * * 79 J10 (Max) - In Development * * 79 NT Cherokee (parts) * * 86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior) * * http://www.wagoneer.net * *============================================* ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:42:38 EDT From: FourXDave-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1305 ignition woes.. sounds like wiring, you are getting power to the coil and module when you are cranking (through the "i" terminal on the solenoid) but when the solenoid is out of the circuit, you have no 12V positive to the system... possible bad ign switch down the column, wiring, or fusible link from batt side of solenoid, run a jumper wire from batt. positive to the ignition coil and i bet a hundred bucks it runs fine... DAB <>< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:44:15 EDT From: FourXDave-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: FSJ Express!! i really dig that idea!, i would handle rapid city or so, to kansas city, and desmoines or so to ?? colorado/i80 border??? DAB <>< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:47:10 EDT From: FourXDave-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: X-Files... just because i am paranoid, does NOT mean they arent after me...... :) DAB <>< ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 19:39:18 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1305 That will probably make it run, but it will eventually fry your coil unless you also hook up a ballast resistor in that line. *============================================* * JC Jones * * 76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired * * 84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore) * * 79 J10 (Max) - In Development * * 86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior) * * 79 NT Cherokee (parts) * * http://www.wagoneer.net * *============================================* > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > FourXDave-at-aol.com > Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 5:43 PM > To: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1305 > > > ignition woes.. sounds like wiring, you are > getting power to the coil and > module when you are cranking (through the "i" > terminal on the solenoid) but > when the solenoid is out of the circuit, you have > no 12V positive to the > system... possible bad ign switch down the > column, wiring, or fusible link > from batt side of solenoid, run a jumper wire > from batt. positive to the > ignition coil and i bet a hundred bucks it runs > fine... DAB <>< ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 21:37:00 -0500 From: "Chris Sutton" Subject: fsj: Re: Ignition woes continue This weekend I put in a "new" 360 in the Jeep. I had previously done the TFI conversion with the duraspark module. In trouble shooting the problem, I saw the same things that you described with the spark. The solution was the replace both the coil and the Duraspark module. Leaving the key switch on kills those components. I now keep a spare module and coil in the truck. Hope this helps. Chris Sutton - -----Original Message----- From: Landon Tesar To: fsj-at-digest.net Date: Thursday, May 03, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: fsj: Ignition woes continue >I checked with a timing light, and I am getting spark when I move the >tumbler from 'off' to 'start', and again I get a spark when I move back >to 'off'. And there is a shudder from the engine. I thought this would >be the ignition switch. I've taken the ignition switch off, but it >seems to check out ok for connections. I think we're just about down to >wires. I'm guessing that somehow, in the ignition switch 'start' >position, no current is getting to the coil, but it is getting there in >the 'on' position. > >- Landon >================================= >To: fsj-at-digest.net >Subject: fsj: Ignition woes > >Hi, > >I left my ignition on in the '89 GW. I've done the upgrade to TFI coil, > >with a relay that applies 12 volts. > >It toasted the coil. > >Bought a new coil. > >Ran fine for two days, now no spark. I replaced the ignition module. > >Still need to check: 12V to the ignition module, resistance at pickup >coil, continuity in a few places. > >Any other pointers ? > >- - Landon >'89 GW >Austin ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:13:02 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Ignition woes continue Hmmmm. I vaguely remember saying something about the benefits of points and carburetors recently... *============================================* * JC Jones * * 76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired * * 84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore) * * 79 J10 (Max) - In Development * * 86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior) * * 79 NT Cherokee (parts) * * http://www.wagoneer.net * *============================================* > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > Chris Sutton > Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 8:37 PM > To: Landon Tesar; fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: fsj: Re: Ignition woes continue > > > This weekend I put in a "new" 360 in the Jeep. I > had previously done the > TFI conversion with the duraspark module. In > trouble shooting the problem, > I saw the same things that you described with the > spark. The solution was > the replace both the coil and the Duraspark > module. Leaving the key switch > on kills those components. I now keep a spare > module and coil in the truck. > > Hope this helps. > > Chris Sutton ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1306 **************************