From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue May 8 17:13:38 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, May 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1312 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: Re: Dead AMC 360 Re: fsj: Re: Trans Question Re: fsj: Re: Dead AMC 360 Re: [fsj: Re: Trans Question] Re: [fsj: My '89 GW with proposed new transmission] Re: [fsj: My '89 GW with proposed new transmission] Re: fsj: Help--Rear Brakes Vibration fsj: just the thing! fsj: black thing on overhead GW console... ;) fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: Dead AMC 360 Re: fsj: Help--Rear Brakes Vibration fsj: HUGE '76 Blazer gastank for sale Re: [Re: [fsj: Re: Trans Question] ] fsj: Desperate (fwd) fsj: rear brake vibs... fsj: Re: HUGE '76 Blazer gastank for sale (crossposted) Re: [fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:36:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Dead AMC 360 A: Before you assume the motor is shot due to low compression, pull the valve covers and make sure all the rockers are functioning (bent pushrods, worn out or broken rockers make a motor run like crap!) I have bought several that only had this wrong, and the DSPOs insisted the motor was shot (some not very nice repair shops will fix the problem for $200 worth of parts and say "you now have a new motor! That will be $2500 please!") If the intake valve is not opening like it should, compression will be WAAAAY down. If the exhaust isn't opening right, it will backfire out the carb on acceleration!) On Mon, 7 May 2001, b pirecki wrote: John, My 1988 GW miserably failed a compression test, looks like it's time for a rebuilt. Any suggestions for engines! Thanks, Bruno ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 11:44:07 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Trans Question A: I have blown up more TH400s than 727s (and had about an equal amount of both) I'll rebuild a 727 with hemi kit before I'd run a power sucking TH400 again (I don't build TH400s, just like I don't build Holley 4 bbls! ) As long as you read the owner's manual, which will tell you to cool the trans down in neutral, not park you'll be fine. (written right in where it says to check fluid level in neutral as well) and add a trans cooler, plus fluid modifier (I use STP engine oil treatment to keep line pressure up as the trans ages and seals harden) On Mon, 7 May 2001 Bjersr5-at-cs.com wrote: I like to know from yall's experience which is the better trans. The 400 or the 727? is it safe to assume that the 400 is the same as the GM just with the AMC bolt pattern? I know the both were put behind big blocks. Thanks Barry ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 12:53:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Dead AMC 360 A: A minor little thing here: Since you are going from V8 to 6 cyl, you will need the following: frame mounts moved back and replaced with 6 cyl ones (wish I had taken pics of the V8 ones before sending the '84 GW frame to scrap! I did take frame measurements though and will have the 6 cyl bracket difference in spacing diagram drawn up soon) You can use the XJ 6 cyl exhaust up front, coupled to the V8 exhaust in the back -at-under the trans. The V8 rad SHOULD be okay (since mine is 6 cyl originally, I'm going with a 3 core 8 cyl CJ rad), but the waterpump is still under consideration for my stroker setup (due to belt driven fan VS electric fan mounting and 4.2L to 4.0L 3/8" difference in crank length) I'm pretty sure I will end up with a 4.0L Wrangler pump because it came with a serpentine belt driven waterpump with fan. The 4.0L pump doesn't have a pattern condusive to mounting a fan (no centering pin and a real wide bolt pattern) You can keep the 727 IF you get a harmonic balancer mounted CPS (crank position sensor. Apparently they make them for the Renix now as well as the HO EFI system) You will need the complete EFI harness from the XJ as well as the computer. (If you go with the 09/'90 or newer AW4 trans with 23 spline output, you will need the shift computer and harness as well. Trans mounting pad is still in question, but it's 2.5" longer than the 727 and linkage will be an issue) If you go with a '87 to 08/'90 XJ EFI system (AKA Renix, which I prefer since it has more ping control than the HO set up), 1/2 is under the hood and 1/2 is under the dash. The 09/'90 and newer, (AKA HO which has the added bonus of being able to plug into any dealer computer for troubleshooting) until '95 anyway, is all under the hood. You will need 6 cyl driveshafts (due to the transfercase mounting being 5-6" rearward of the V8) I haven't gotten into the throttle linkage, but I think the XJ cable will work in place of the 6 cyl FSJ one through the firewall. Powersteering hoses should be okay for the '88, but earlier ones that didn't have O-rings will need adapting. AC hoses may need adapting, but the XJ compressor should be okay (I'm going to use the XJ one on mine as an air compressor) I definitely suggest using the Energy Suspension heavy duty motor mount pads (they are listed for 6 cyl CJs) and you will need the engine mounting brackets to bolt the motor in (XJ brackets suck! Even the so-called bomb-proof ones are being blown up in XJs!) That's all I can think of right now off the top of my head, but I will be taking pics and notes as I build my stroker swap! From: john On Mon, 7 May 2001, b pirecki wrote: John, The 4.0 sounds like the best option, I've got a guy here in Nashville TN that installs engines out of wrecked vehicles and I'm sure with the popularity of the 4.0 that he could find a low miles one. If I go w/ the 4.0 L what else am I going to need to make it fit correctly? John wrote: get the Aisin Warner automatic with it, you'll need it. 30-80LE. If you get a 90(?) and up you'll get a 23 spline output shaft that will work with your NP229/228... maybe... The xj xfr cases use slip yoke... not the way to go... good luck... john Thanks again, Bruno ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:03:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: Trans Question] A: Not just the 999 converter, but the whole trans! (999 is the baby brother to 727, and with the HD converter and Dodge 360 clutch set up, nearly bullet proof) I had great engine braking with Elmo, but also add a cooler, because the more transbraking you do, the more heat is built up! The 999 also comes with lower first and second gear ratios than 727 (that with a slightly high stall converter that locks up, and it feels like you have a 4 speed auto!) From: Michael Shimniok FWIW, I think the 727 can be built with heavy duty components prolly enuf to make it bulletproof. One advantage: linkage versus vacuum modulator. Jeep 727's came in lockup or non-lockup variants, your choice. Jim B sez you can put a smaller 999 torque converter in 'em for better mileage, maybe better engine braking too? More hipo parts for 400, but 727 has plenty too. I have a 727 that I think is original with 140k, works great. Definitely add a tranny cooler and swap fluid & filter regularly (15-30k miles) Unless you swap tailshafts & adapters on the 400, the 727 offers lots more bolt-on tcase options. You can put QuadraTrac on some 400's, D20 on others. Some pre-73 TH400's have B-O-P pattern (some with adapter), meaning you can bolt up a 455 buick, olds, pontiac. Michael ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:11:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: My '89 GW with proposed new transmission] From: Michael Shimniok >Interesting. I take it the 6spd Richmond Gear unit is a manual?? A: Sure is. New Vettes are running it I think. Mike: >Anyone know where to find similar information about 5 or 6 speed autos? A: I lost the link, but the partsmike maybe? Mike: >Is it even remotely feasible to stick an allison 6-speed (ie. motorhome tranny) in a GW??   Just curious and ignorant... Michael A: I can't recall the brand name, but there was a motorhome (as well as Criscraft boats) that came with AMC power, but not sure if they ran Allison or not. I had a helluva time tracking down the parts to bolt up a Dodge 383 hemi and 426 wedge into motorhomes with Allisons! I ended up making my own SAE adapters to attach to the stock std trans bellhousings (I still have a 361 std flywheel and 2 standard bellhousings. One early 383 truck and one late style 361 big block Dodge which use different starters. Pics are on photopoint) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:26:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: [fsj: My '89 GW with proposed new transmission] A: Ah yes, but there is a world of difference between them! '79 had 3.08 as top axle ratio, and 235/15 (28.8") tires stock. I ran Elmo ('83 Cherokee no lift) with 31" tires and 2.72 gears up to 90 mph when in a panic situation to get to Canada (when I got the call that my son had lost several fingers in an accident at school) and I knew it could handle it w/o blowing up. With taller gears (either O/D in the trans, or tall gear ratios) and a stable lift (swaybars and panhard bars on the later models help cut swaying and keep under control when swerving, and the wider axles in WT Cheros and J trucks help stop rollover due to high COG) and then put a decent driver behind the wheel, and a later model FSJ is capable of 120 mph fairly safely (with improved braking and steering of course!) Jeep was just trying to cover their butt so people can't say "Well I wasn't told my Jeep couldn't do 150 mph w/o blowing up and rolling!" From: Cyber Phoenix I read on the 79 wag.. I can't remember the owner's manual, or on the body.. But it says do not go over 75 mph.. R.J. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 13:30:25 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Help--Rear Brakes Vibration A: First, pull the tires (make sure the wheel-lugs aren't loose) and drums (look for hot spots and fluid leaking on the shoes) and check the U-joints (a bad U-joint sometimes may only vibrate during deceleration) Check the backlash of the diff while in there, and the wheel bearings for excess play. From: bobandkara-at-juno.com Hi, 1986 GW Just today, I noticed a terrible vibration from the rear end when i apply the brakes firmly. It almost feels like going over a rumble strip! Anyone have any suggestions? Thank you ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:28:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: just the thing! To complement your FSJ ownership that is! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeramie Kassler" Subject: Rebel Machine For Sale I have a 1970 Red/White/Blue Rebel Machine for sale. Brand new 1973 401 motor by Alpha Engine Sales (Portland,OR) 4sp, comes w/numbers matching 390, orig Nevada car, very low orig miles, interesting history, small rust in lower window corners, and little tiny bit before rear wheel openings, runs great, going in for brakes next week, man. steering,pwr front disks, 4.44 detroit locker, headers, new 750 carter, edelbrock perf., email scram-at-proaxis.com if interested $5,500 obo ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:59:29 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: black thing on overhead GW console... ;) On Tue, 8 May 2001, D. Craig Kelliher wrote: >-->John- >--> >-->I have a question. >--> >-->The Wagoneer that I bought has a black thing on the overhead console. It >-->looks to me like it would be for remote control door locks, but I don't >-->know. Do you know what it is? >-->Thanks, >-->Craig sounds like the remote door lock thing... my '88 xj wagoneer has the same thing... I'll forward this to the FSJ list to see if that's true, if it's not I'll get back to you. ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:02:14 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer On Tue, 8 May 2001, Randy Guynn wrote: >-->John, >-->Can you tell me if fo any reason that a set of Headers for a 1990 Grand >-->Wagoneer with 360 engine would be any different that for a 1991 Grand >-->Wagoneer with 360. Hedman lists up to 1990 only and says that 1991 MUST >-->be different. >-->Thanks, >-->Randy Guynn Randy Guynn >--> >-->-- >-->http://www.performanceamstyle.com/ I would think that those headers would most likely fit any AMC V8 made... :) I can't think of anything in particular why the '90 would be different than a '91 unless they went with an O2 sensor, which makes little sense... I'll forward this to the FSJ list to see if there are any issues, but my thought is there is nothing different... Of course, who knows, Chrysler was in charge then. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 15:14:54 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Dead AMC 360 On Tue, 8 May 2001, jim blair wrote: >-->A: A minor little thing here: Since you are going from V8 to 6 cyl, you good info Jim. I like the details on the dates and the measurements. Knowing that 9/90 and up XJ uses the newer computer and 23 spline is very helpful. :) I put that email at: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/xj-4.0liter-swap-details.txt oh, btw, I just bought an '87 Cherokee Laredo to use until SuperDawg is rebuilt... I bought a cheap jeep from a friend at work... ;) the wife can drive the benz if she doesn't like it... we plan on using the insurance money to pay off the benz anyway... it's highly unlikely we'll be able to find as jeep as nice as the little wagoneer... ;( john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 17:25:57 -0500 From: Cyber Phoenix Subject: Re: fsj: Help--Rear Brakes Vibration could be warped rotors.. R.J. bobandkara-at-juno.com wrote: > Hi, > > 1986 GW > > Just today, I noticed a terrible vibration from the rear end when i apply > the brakes firmly. It almost feels like going over a rumble strip! > Anyone have any suggestions? > > Thank you ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:50:16 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: HUGE '76 Blazer gastank for sale A: I know some of the lists will block this pic, but it will be on my photopoint list under "Jim's garage sale" later tonight (along with all the other goodies I'm posting). I don't think it's quite 45 gallons. (I filled my Comanche with 18 gallons out of it, and got nearly 1/4 tank in a '76 Wagoneer while draining it, and the Chev gauge read just over 1/2 a tank) The overall length (way the tape is laying) is 32" with a slight bottom ramp at the back (to the right in this pic, which is a driver's side view) 15" tall and 26 1/4" wide (the top section is 20" from left to right and the rear notch is 5 1/2" deep and 3 1/2" wide, and the front wedge is 8" for clearance from the diff as it swings back and up under load and twist) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2001 17:50:33 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: [fsj: Re: Trans Question] ] One could swap the 999 gearsets into the 727, and use the smaller converter...? If the valvebody is lockup, then would a 999 lockup converter work with a 727 lockup body? What are the valvebody differences... why is the 999 a 'baby' version? Just thinking about these things in case I rebuild a 727... worth considering what I can do to it. More engine braking & greater efficiency would be desirable... not sure if lower gears would be good or just make shifting into 3rd annoying. :) Maybe I'll end up building a lockup 727 as it can only help fuel efficiency and I have no plans to tow ... would it stay off when I'm in low range... ? Thanx, Michael Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) wrote: > A: Not just the 999 converter, but the whole trans! (999 is the baby > brother to 727, and with the HD converter and Dodge 360 clutch set up, > nearly bullet proof) > I had great engine braking with Elmo, but also add a cooler, because > the more transbraking you do, the more heat is built up! The 999 also > comes with lower first and second gear ratios than 727 (that with a > slightly high stall converter that locks up, and it feels like you have > a 4 speed auto!) > > From: Michael Shimniok > > FWIW, I think the 727 can be built with heavy duty components prolly > enuf to make it bulletproof. One advantage: linkage versus vacuum > modulator. > Jeep 727's came in lockup or non-lockup variants, your choice. Jim B sez > you can put a smaller 999 torque converter in 'em for better mileage, > maybe better > engine braking too? > More hipo parts for 400, but 727 has plenty too. > I have a 727 that I think is original with 140k, works great. Definitely > add a tranny cooler and swap fluid & filter regularly (15-30k miles) > Unless you swap tailshafts & adapters on the 400, the 727 offers lots > more bolt-on tcase options. You can put QuadraTrac on some 400's, D20 on > others. Some pre-73 TH400's have B-O-P pattern (some with adapter), > meaning you can bolt up a 455 buick, olds, pontiac. > Michael > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10 4.6L, O/D auto on LPG, '86 Comanche with > AMC 4 cyl, 5 speed http://homepages.go.com/~carnuck/carnuck.html > ************************************** - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:54:35 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Desperate (fwd) ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: PZimm1-at-aol.com John, I am trying to restore a '77 Wagoneer. I desperately need a Motorcraft alternator bracket. There is a rebuilt 402 engine in it now. I think the bracket would be the same as if there was a 360 in it. Can you help or direct me?? Thanks. Pete Zimmerman Atlanta, GA 404.816.7732 ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: rear brake vibs... on the xj there is a leading and a trailing shoe, if you screw up and put all the leading on one side and all the trailing on the other side it does something like that... ;) also, there may be an edge on the shoe that's causing it to bite, file the edges of the shoe down... just a slight campher is all... and of course your drums/rotors could be out of round, or you have loose lug nuts or bearings... hope that helps... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:08:15 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: HUGE '76 Blazer gastank for sale (crossposted) A: I took measurements before, and posted them to the list, but don't remember what they were right now. Anyway, for a GW, the '89 XJ tank will button right in and still give ground clearance! (I also have the section of frame rail that rots out from the '84 GW and the stock gas tank with working sending unit) I'm off to UPS before they close (I hope!) John asked: Will it fit a GW? ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 8 May 2001 17:58:47 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: 1991 Grand Wagoneer] john wrote: > On Tue, 8 May 2001, Randy Guynn wrote: > >-->Can you tell me if fo any reason that a set of Headers for a 1990 Grand > >-->Wagoneer with 360 engine would be any different that for a 1991 Grand > >-->Wagoneer with 360. Hedman lists up to 1990 only and says that 1991 MUST > >-->be different. > > I would think that those headers would most likely fit any AMC V8 > made... :) Or... at least the dogleg versions are all compatible. Only reason I can come up with for the 91 being different would be -clearance- issues but I don't know what those are. If it's actual bolt pattern or something, what I can't figure is why Chrysler would do ANY retooling on the heads when they had been trying to get rid of the FSJ line for years and kept it on only to milk it as I understand. MAYBE Heddman confused the 1992 (baby Jeep) Grand Wagoneer with the 1991 Grand Wagoneer?? Would be interesting to side-by-side compare engine compartments between both years. Can you just buy 'em then return 'em if they don't fit...? Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1312 **************************