From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jun 8 15:15:43 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, June 8 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1340 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1339 fsj: Window Tint Re: fsj: Window Tint Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) Re: fsj: FSJ: Transmission Help? Re: fsj: Transmission output splines & water problem Re: fsj: No Subject fsj: WJ Names fsj: No Subject Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:01:48 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1339 On Thu, 7 Jun 2001, fsj-digest wrote: >--> >-->fsj-digest Thursday, June 7 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1339 HEY, the Quadratrac issue! ;) (hint for those that don't understand "subtle" humor, note the number of the digest and the model number of the Borg Warner Quadratrac. ;) >--> fsj: FSJ: Transmission Help? >-->1) Is tranny replacement, errm, unbolt-lever-out-lever-in-rebolt easy, or is >-->it something that Trained Professionals should be left to do? Without a I recommend renting a transmission jack, but otherwise it's straight forward. Bolt out/in. You can do it in a day with basic handtools. I recommend getting lots of long extentions, makes it easier to get the top bellhousing bolts out. When you reinstall, put the torque convertor into the transmission, carefully seat it and then once the tranny is mounted to the engine pull it forward and connect it to the flex plate. >-->From: GW1989-at-aol.com >-->Subject: fsj: No Subject >-->John-why didn't you tell me that parts for the Jeep are so much more than the >-->Mercedes. Example, those 'plugs' that go into the 'wood' trim.....$2 each! >-->Give ME a break. But I do like the fact that 5 quarts of oil does a change, >-->and not 2 gallons like the diesel! :) No one believes me when I tell them how cheap Mercedes Benz Diesels are to care for. ;) (My wife would still like to see me keep the Benz and ditch my J10, but that ain't gonna happen... :) However, I could visualize me selling the J10 to buy HER another XJ and me driving the WJ. ;) But since that's not likely to happen in this lifetime the J10 is my baby, and the WJ will be hers. I'm already facing the challenge by my teenage son to drive it... he's a good driver and such, but his attitude about things worries me... If you saw his room or his wardrobe you'd understand why I'm not planning on letting him near it. ;) >-->And changing the sparkplugs, what a pain in the rear. My hands are killing me. I do the back passenger side one from underneath. ;) >-->PS> What kind of tires and shocks does everybody recommend? I will rarely go >-->off road. I want a smooth, quiet ride. Michelin LTX AT's or any Michelin passenger series, the LT versions are better than any others for ride, but still a little harsh. The P235's are perfect for a GW, you'll love 'em. It's all I'll use on my Jeeps, that and BFG's. Shocks... well, the Old Man Emu shocks are surprisingly nice, but expensive. I've had good luck with Rancho 5000s. Superdawg has 9000s but I swiped a pair of OME shocks from the little wag that I'll use on the front. :) The edelbrock shocks are supposed to be nice too, and maybe even Bilsteins if they have them. My first choice would be the OME's, then Rancho's. However, try the standard shocks from the parts stores, you might get a suitable ride and save mucho denaro. ;) >-->Thanks, >-->Craig john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 18:49:56 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: Window Tint Does anyone know if static cling window tint film will work good with a sliding rear window or do I need the adhesive stuff? thanks Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 20:29:29 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Window Tint They tend to peel off.. take it out and have it done.. R.J. mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net wrote: > > Does anyone know if static cling window tint film will work good with a sliding rear window or do I need the adhesive stuff? > > thanks > Mike ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 23:22:27 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) At 12:43 AM 6/8/01 -0400, GW1989-at-aol.com wrote: >John- > >There are some things I've noticed about the GW on my first day of ownership. > >1) The temp. stays at the top of the blue, except if I'm coasting down a long >hill, where it drops slightly. gauges and sending units will vary. so with thermostats. best bet is to hook up a mechanical unit in place of the factory sending unit and get a good reading. If it reads low then check the thermostat, if it reads fine, either replace the sending unit or live with it. Every vehicle I've owned (what, I'm up to 74 now) has read differently... the key is to make sure the cooling system is working and watch the relative readings on it. If there is a problem it'll be obvious. :) >2) The oil pressure is at 60 during acceleration. sounds about right... the critical reading is at an idle... of course the gauge and sending units will fluctuate some... :) >Are these correct? sound pretty much ok... generally... ;) >Also I seem to have excessive play in the steering wheel and a shimmy/shake >at highway speeds. I had the tires rotated and balanced today. That helped a >bit, but it's still there. I'm going to have the alignment done tomorrow and >check the front end bushings. The shocks that are on the car are silver in >color and I think that they might be original. I don't think that that would >have anything to do with the shimmy/shake though. depending on the speed you're going when it shimmies... lets say your in the 50 to 60mph range... that could be the damper at the tranny mount... or it could be bad tires or the trackbar/panhard bar (not likely on a leaf spring vehicle) or loose front end parts... or bad shocks... or an out of balance driveline, or incorrect pinion angles... (is it lifted?) It could even be a problem in the motor... tires are the biggest culprit, then that isolation damper, then driveline stuff... let us know what you find... I'm working through issues on the '87 Cherokee Laredo... tires helped greatly, tomorrow it gets a FEA, tonight I replaced door seals, door checks and something else... It's running great, going to drive straight and is getting great fuel economy, price is going up as I fix more things. :) Oh, yeah, I fixed the mirrors on it too. :) Next the rear wiper and shocks... Oh yeah, fixed windows too... >Is there a FSJ archive like on the MB discussion group where I could search >for past threads? I remember you saying something about a steering box absolutely, have a search engine and digests even: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests (or something like that... ;) >adjustment, but I can't remember what to do. I really feel at a loss. I have >the MB CD ROM, and then there is the archive to help me figure out what to >do, but with the Jeep, it's much harder. actually the Jeep is in many ways easier... the systems are simple and mostly easy to deal with... there are a few things that are challenging, or heavy... or greasy... ;) quality isn't as good, but man oh man is there ROOM for improvement... ;) It's a great platform to be creative with... Engine swaps and rewiring are pretty easy because of the room. :) >Thanks, >Craig btw, want to trade my '83 300SD for your 300CD? ;) Meet ya half way... of course that would get me further into debt/trouble... ;) Hey, if my wife decides she wants to sell the WJ maybe we can work something out... ;) That way I could have the CD and SuperDawg... nah... WJ and Superdawg... now all we have to do is sell off all these other vehicles and come up with a good name for the Grand Cherokee... :) ttyl, john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:56:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: FSJ: Transmission Help? A: First, drain the oil, drop the pan and change the filter and clean the pan (If there is a lot of detritis in there, strain and return the old fluid to the trans after replacing the filter) The reason for putting the old fluid back in is because it can hold only so much clutch material (point of super saturation due to heat) Fresh fluid is high on detergents, and will wipe out what's left of the clutches. Then, pour in some STP engine oil treatment (unless they have the more expensive, but same stuff in the transmission additive can) If that doesn't fix it (seems to be a 75% fix. Many Jeep listers and Dodge owners have used this trick and got well over a year's extra running out of tired 727 and TH400 trannies) then it's time for a trans swap. I'm not close enough to help (SF is a ways from S, W!) but I have a writeup on changing your Dodge style trans on my website below (I haven't reread it in awhile, but I think it's complete still) The 727 is not super hard to build, but a few special tools are needed, or someone that is good at changing the internal seals for you. (you'll probably find the low clutch drum seals are melted. It may even need a new piston) All the parts cost about $250 with fluid to build one completely (I have the 727 spec and rebuild book for sale in my parts for $20 with postage). One caution: The front pump/converter fit is finicky, and if the converter is not aligned all the way in, the trans will self destruct in short order. Once explained, there isn't a whole lot of hoodoo to it! (a lot of the guys that rebuild these things barely have enough brain wattage to put their clothes on the right way around!) I'm thinking about making a video on how to do it (I still have my working 8mm camcorder) I WILL be doing pics and video of my buildup of Blackie, once I get all the last few parts I need assembled in one place! From: Jim Pearson Hey, y'all.... Typically a lurker, as I usually don't have much wisdom to add (yet! yet! gimme time!).... but I'd like to de-lurk to ask a question or two: My 82 Cherokee Laredo 360/727 has decided to start having transmission problems. Gears seem to slip, shifting seems inconsistent/odd, BIG clunk going into R or D -- don't even really have enough tranny expertise to describe the symptoms, I guess. While I am relatively comfortable doing most work on my own (for better or for worse), I've -never- tackled a Transmission Issue. Always been a big black box between "suck-squeeze-bang-blow" and "Go". So: I'd really appreciate any comments. 1) Is tranny replacement, errm, unbolt-lever-out-lever-in-rebolt easy, or is it something that Trained Professionals should be left to do? Without a real garage of my own (I live in San Francisco, the canyonero lives on the street), should I just consider it a forgone conclusion that she'll have to go into a shop somewhere? 2) Long shot question: Anybody got either (a) a shop recommendation anywhere in the SF Bay Area (so far she still drives, tho I'm getting more and more worried) or, even longer shot, anybody around done a transmission before / got one lying around and interested in teaching someone else the ropes / making a little beer money / bartering for a nice PC or something? 3) Other thoughts? Thanks all, for your time... looking forward to responses. Jim Pearson 1982 Cherokee Laredo... ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:17:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Transmission output splines & water problem A: 4WD 727 and 998 trannies almost all have 23 spline outputs (there are a few 21 spline '80 models with NP119 and NP219 that were originally intended to go in IH rigs, but were sold to Jeep when IH pulled the plug on light trucks in '79/'80. AFAIK, they only went behind 6 cyls in Eagles and FSJs, and only a few thousand were sold before they were recalled, but a few slipped through) The adapter sleeve between the trans and transfercase is the same for 727 and 998 (and Jeep 999 which is only different from the 998 in the larger 727 size converter neck) The shaft however is different inside the trans case, but the outer end matches length. The std trans outputs changed with the year and transfercase used. '80 up SHOULD be 23 spline with the NP208, but a birdy told me that some GM trannies were used with NP208s (T-18 but it could have been DSPO swapped in) and may have a different shaft/spline configuration than Jeep. To use the earlier transfercase (other than std which I don't know. Joe knows that stuff) you need the earlier trans, or an adapter kit ($$) and swap the front axle and maybe gas tank/rear axle/exhaust (I don't think a QT would work upside down) The water is often the under fender and wiper cowl drains are plugged with pine needles or leaves. The hold down screws for the cowl also allow water to come in if they aren't sealed. From: Jeremiah Westpfahl Hi. Needing some information on output splines on the 727 & 998 transmissions. I've never been into one with a transfer so I was wondering if they were the same size & spline count. Also what about the various standard transmissions(T-18, T-5, etc.)? What size/output did they have & can you swap transfer from a auto to a standard? Finally what about the older transmissions? The -80 had tranfer on opposite side of vehicle, can you swap stuff around to put older trans in later Wagoneer? What's involved? Can the transfer be rotated or do you have to use a later transfer? Is it easily possible to swap a mid 70s T-18(I think)standard into an 80s Auto Waggie? Finally...I'm getting a lot of water into my front floorboards on each side near the outside edge of the carpet. Think my door seals are pretty good, know I need lower-outer Window seals, but shouldn't be getting that much water from them. Anything under dash that can let copious amounts of water in? It's so bad it's seeping through my Jeep floor mats too, gonna have to get a wet/dry vac to everything before carpet rots. Thanks Miah ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 00:31:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: No Subject A: I wish I'd been told you were trading out plugs! There is a trick to doing those tough 2 (going through the wheel well.) and putting in plugs that last -at-100K miles so you don't have to do it again real soon! Did you put in good plugwires? (MSD, Splitfires or Jacobs are pretty much tops) For tires, I know John will pipe up about Michelins (I'm going with Avons, who are the world's oldest tire manufacturer, but I'm lifted 3" and they are 33/10.5/16s), and I like the ride of the Edelbrock shocks (for less money that the RS9000s IIRC) I tried my friend's '76 Wag on the highway with Fisk Phantoms, which looked aggressive, but ran quiet. Not sure how long they will last. From: GW1989-at-aol.com I finally took delivery of my new (old) '89 GW. Man is it fun, although I was sad to part with my MB 300CD, but a trailer hitch won't work on the MB. John-why didn't you tell me that parts for the Jeep are so much more than the Mercedes. Example, those 'plugs' that go into the 'wood' trim.....$2 each! Give ME a break. But I do like the fact that 5 quarts of oil does a change, and not 2 gallons like the diesel! And changing the sparkplugs, what a pain in the rear. My hands are killing me. Before and after pictures will be posted on my new GW site tomorrow. PS> What kind of tires and shocks does everybody recommend? I will rarely go off road. I want a smooth, quiet ride. Thanks, Craig ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2001 10:26:46 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: fsj: WJ Names I would just call it "The Grand" ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 11:13:30 EDT From: GW1989-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: No Subject I realized that there was more room if I went through the wheel well than trying to go in through the engine on the last 2 on the passenger side. I put the Bosch Platinum +4 plugs in. $6 each ouch! But there is a $20 rebate from Pep Boys. The wires look new and say Mopar on them but I think I might replace them because the engine is still missing. I need to check the emissions today. As for shocks Pep Boys has Gabriel's for $20 each. Edelbrocks are $70 each but there is a $27 rebate. Is there that big of a difference? Costco did a balance yesterday and told me that the tires are in good shape. So the tires will have to last for a while. I really want to install a new stereo first. So this morning I'm off to the local 4x4 shop to look at shocks lube all the necessary places and contemplate spending way too much on a stereo. Thanks Craig ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2001 15:03:27 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 pyroboy16-at-juno.com wrote: >-->is it normal for an 1987 jeep fullsize grand wagoneer to make it up the >-->beach at oregon inlet nc with out being put into four wheel drive?the >-->thing (as i like to call it)has a 4in lift kit and a 3in body lift,sitin >-->on 33in mud kings has some small oil leaks but other than that in fairley >-->good condition.360 under the hood and whole lota kick with 179,652 mis. >-->on it sure, why not? :) it's a full size Jeep. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1340 **************************