From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Jun 11 13:00:36 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, June 11 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1343 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: rust? fsj: 0 to 60 followup... Re: fsj: Re: GC's Re: fsj: 0 to 60 mph Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) fsj: craig's '89 RE: fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo Re: fsj: Re: GC's Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) fsj: door lock maintenance Re: fsj: door lock maintenance fsj: Decisions, decisions! fsj: Re: Re: starting question FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:14:56 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: rust? >Subject: fsj: My Jeeps >The 93 ZJ is fine The 82 Waggy Is Fine even the 86 dodge p/u and the 97 >Buick Lesabre are trouble free but The 89 XJ is BAD. I Had made an >appointment to get the rockers replaced on it (the only rust)I called the >guy who I bought it from to ask him who did electrical work to it (a lot >of home made fixes) and it is the same guy who will be fixing my rockers. >So I called him to tell him to check the Fusible links and if that is not >the problem fix whatever is causing it and get the rockers done. > >I'm not sure what this will cost me, but the rockers alone were goindg to >run me about 300. > >Thanks for the help! >Mike rust??? where do you live? I drove the little wagoneer around for three years with a scar on the passenger side from a stump that missed my nerf bars, and it hardly changed color... I didn't think an XJ was capable of rusting!!! Even my '83 J10 is virtually rust free, I think there are three spots in the paint... my '83 Mercedes has ZERO rust... I don't know why cars tend to mold here instead of rust, but I'm very, very happy about it. :) Someone mentioned that this WJ could have been exposed to salted roads back east... is there a treatment you can have applied that will stop it and / or reverse it??? I sprayed the engine compartment with Simple Green and hosed the underside and engine off... I want to make sure it doesn't have a chance of rusting... Is Ziebart good??? I left the plains of Northern Illinois in July 1974. I've been back a few times over the years... but memories of hot, muggy, humid, sticky summers and bitter, frigid, subzero, roadsalted, snowdrifted, icecovered, freezing winters are but a distant memory... I live among the slugs and snails and ferns and moss where we enjoy 9 months of sunshine free living. :) We're heading into the dry season shortly... might happen on a weekend this year too! :) john - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:19:30 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: 0 to 60 followup... the 5.9L Durango does 0 to 60 mph in 8.4 seconds. that means that even a little Isuzu Amigo is FASTER than the 5.9L!!! ;) The WJ of course does it in only 7.49 seconds... stock... with an air filter that works even... ;) see http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/WJ-acceleration.html >Subject: fsj: 0 to 60 mph >anyone know what the Dodge Durango does 0 to 60 in? >thanx >john >----------------------------- >Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:22:57 -0400 >From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net >Subject: fsj: Durango >It was a 2001 Durango SLT with a 5.9L 360. - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:39:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: GC's A: Let's see: CJ-ish grill, body stylings of the PT cruiser/Neon. I know! It's Speed Buggy! LOL! (Vroom-a-zoom-zoom!) From: john At 11:34 PM 6/9/01 -0400, mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net wrote: I Was at the Jeep Lot today And I Agree With you WJ Is Better I Looked at the Liberty too, I Really don't like that thing Mike john wrote: that's ok... :) I still don't like the ZJs. :) The WJ is so much nicer. :) The thought did cross my mind when I saw what the price on the Liberty was to sell the WJ and get a new Liberty... there's almost enough price difference to make it work out... I should go look at them. Shoot, if I can get Alan and Paul over here to paint my house I could afford to keep the WJ or at least get a new Liberty... ;) I saw a liberty at the light a few days ago... not really sure what to make of it yet... It reminds me of something... just can't figure out what yet. Will have to drive one to see what it's like. If the visibility is better I may just give it some thought.   I've never had a new car before, would be kind of nice to start out fresh for once... :) I looked at a friend's 91 or 92 XJ today and noticed it had an overhead console and really nice leather seats... I'm thinking an XJ with a compass will make my wife very happy, she seems to be very impressed with the temp gauge/compass gizmo on the console. ;) Hey, you know what? I haven't heard from the Admiral for a while, on either list... what's up with that? Brian, you still reading email? ;) john - - ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 21:45:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 0 to 60 mph A: The 4.7L 2001 I drove (wife had it while her Ranger was getting fixed) wasn't too impressive off the line (zoom to 20 mph, then flat till 50, then zoom again with AT trans) But it did decent on the highway. From: john anyone know what the Dodge Durango does 0 to 60 in?       5.2L and 5.9L I'm curious... :)                 http://www.wagoneers.com/WJ/WJ-acceleration.html thanx john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 22:36:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) A: If the transfercase chain is sloppy, and it's in 4 high, it will vibrate too. The lock-up torque converter can make vibrations if it's near dead too (not trying to ruin anyone's day) Ujoints can make vibration too if they are sloppy. If the brake drums have hot spots, vibrations can occur as well. From: john At 12:43 AM 6/8/01 -0400, GW1989-at-aol.com wrote: John- There are some things I've noticed about the GW on my first day of ownership. (snip) Also I seem to have excessive play in the steering wheel and a shimmy/shake at highway speeds. I had the tires rotated and balanced today. That helped a bit, but it's still there. I'm going to have the alignment done tomorrow and check the front end bushings. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:17:48 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) At 12:53 AM 6/11/01 -0400, GW1989-at-aol.com wrote: >Just figured out the signature file. sort of, here's the way the link should be displayed. :) http://homepage.mac.com/dcraigk/ >Oh, btw, I need to replace the side rails on my rear window also, I think. It >goes up most of the way ok, but then shutters as it makes it near the top. I have pix in the FSJ/tech section of all the parts, runs about $200 at any Jeep dealer... somewhere I had the parts list too... >We should have gotten together. My ex. mother-in-law lives on the big island. well, if you ever get up to Seattle... ;) >Thanks for the shimmy/shake solution. I'll check it out tomorrow. you know you also have the track bars, however on a leaf spring rig it's unlikely for them to cause a wobble... >I don't think the gas mileage was as good on the way home. I had the AC on (I >kept it off most of the way down, but it was 105 degrees when I left today) >was fighting the wind, and at a slight incline for half of the drive. > > >Thanks, >D. Craig Kelliher >http://homepage.mac.com/dcraigk - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2001 23:21:22 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: craig's '89 Another Mercedes Diesel is replaced by an FSJ. :) http://homepage.mac.com/dcraigk/ (craig sold his 300CD for this jewel... ) - ------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 03:07:58 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo I will try to get to it in the next couple of weeks - been really busy at work and cleaning the garage... It's changed quite a bit since the last picture on wagoneer.net/max - it's sporting 9" of lift now, plus lots of lights and more interior mods. *============================================* * JC Jones * * 76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired * * 84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore) * * 79 J10 (Max) - In Development * * 86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior) * * 79 NT Cherokee (parts) * * http://www.wagoneer.net * *============================================* > -----Original Message----- > From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net > [mailto:mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net] > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 10:01 AM > To: jcjones-at-goldencomputerservice.com > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net > Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo > > > JC, > > Are you going to update your J10 site soon? > > Mike > > "JC Jones" wrote: > > > > I would guess that you disconnected a wire, or > blew a fuse > > with a short. > > > > I have a Rampage CD deck (that I got because it > was cheap > > and I knew it would get stolen sooner or > later), and I have > > been very happy with it.  I don't know about the power > > output because I run mine through an amp, but > it's the first > > CD player I've had that does not skip in a > lifted FSJ.  I > > can hardly get it to skip in my J10 even when I hit the > > roughest roads. > > > > *============================================* > > *  JC Jones                                  * > > *  76 Wagoneer (Road Warrior) - Retired      * > > *  84 Grand Wagoneer (Eeyore)                * > > *  79 J10 (Max) - In Development             * > > *  86 Cherokee Laredo (Junior)               * > > *  79 NT Cherokee (parts)                    * > > *  http://www.wagoneer.net                   * > > *============================================* > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net > > > [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of > > > mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net > > > Sent: Friday, June 08, 2001 5:58 PM > > > To: fsj-at-digest.net > > > Subject: fsj: Non FSJ- XJ Stereo > > > > > > > > > I tried to put a Audiovox Rampage (It was a good > > > deal but never again!) in my 89 XJ and Now the > > > stereo shows NO power at all and the dash clock > > > doesn't work > > > > > > any ideas? > > > > > > thanks, Mike > > > __________________________________________________ > ________________ > Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail > account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:04:36 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: GC's john said: {- I saw a liberty at the light a few days ago... not really sure what to make {- of it yet... It reminds me of something... just can't figure out what yet. A friend of mine and I quickly decided it looks like a Ford Escape rear-ended a Wrangler. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I still miss my ex. But my aim is getting better! - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 08:53:41 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: ownership experiences... :) {- At 12:53 AM 6/11/01 -0400, GW1989-at-aol.com wrote: {- http://homepage.mac.com/dcraigk/ Yikes, that's scary -- thought that was MY truck for a second! First, check out the pics at http://dan.black.org/88GW/ Then, for even creepier stuff, look at the first two pics in http://129.186.79.84/COmisc/ . It's in the mountains and everything! Also note in the first set of pictures an almost identical parking tag on the center mirror! Differences: License plates, I took the plastic covers off my fog lights (heard they'd get stolen otherwise), I have all the hub caps, I have tinted windows, and the spare tire thing you mentioned: {- Notice the tire in the window on the First Day pics. The previous owner {- put in a spare gas tank for 40 gal. total. It cost $80 to fill my 1st {- tank! I'd be interested if you (or anybody else) has current info on the tire carrier for putting it there by the rear left window -- like brands, prices, where to get them, and what's involved for installation. And also any current info on auxillary tanks that would go where the spare tire is stock -- especially the 40gal ones! (I figure I don't have to fill it up all the way every time, but would be really nice for driving across Nebraska without stopping!) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 10:06:11 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: door lock maintenance On Mon, 11 Jun 2001 GW1989-at-aol.com wrote: >-->My power locks aren't working properly on 2 doors. If I push the lock button >-->down, the locks go down on 2 doors, but only part way down on the other 2 >-->doors. If I push down the lock button 4 or 5 times, the other 2 door locks go >-->down and lock. >--> >-->Is this an adjustment, or is it a new part problem? clean all connectors, grounds, switches... get electrical contact cleaner or use amsoil MP or anything that will clean up oxidation... if you use Amsoil MP you can also lubricate and protect all the moving parts at that same time... very typical problem, even with the XJs. don't use WD40, it'll gum things up, it's vegetable oil based... and will dry things out... CRC something works, go to a napa and see what they recommend. You might end up with two cans of stuff. Amsoil MP is less than $3 a can if you can find it, of course you can order it from my website... john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/john http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ To order 1-800-956-5695 customer# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/FSJ_filters.html http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg - ----------------------------------------------------- >--> >-->Thanks, >--> >--> >-->D. Craig Kelliher >-->http://homepage.mac.com/dcraigk >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux **** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://junkscience.com ** http://snopes.com ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA ...don't leave life without Jesus, please... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 13:34:37 EDT From: RKH911-at-aol.com Subject: Re: fsj: door lock maintenance > > >-->My power locks aren't working properly on 2 doors. If I push the lock > button > >-->down, the locks go down on 2 doors, but only part way down on the other > 2 > >-->doors. If I push down the lock button 4 or 5 times, the other 2 door > locks go > >-->down and lock. > >--> > >-->Is this an adjustment, or is it a new part problem? > > clean all connectors, grounds, switches... get electrical contact cleaner > or use amsoil MP or anything that will clean up oxidation... if you use > Amsoil MP you can also lubricate and protect all the moving parts at that > same time... very typical problem, even with the XJs. > > don't use WD40, it'll gum things up, it's vegetable oil based... and will > dry things out... CRC something works, go to a napa and see what they > recommend. > You might end up with two cans of stuff. Amsoil MP is less than $3 a can > if you can find it, of course you can order it from my website... > > john > IMNSHO, if you're going to open the door panel at all, go to "The Good Guys" or some stereo place and get a new servo, to replace the old crappy ones. The install is easy, the cost is ~20 bucks per servo and you will not be dissatisfied. You will have to drill into the doorframe because of the alignment issues and the connections couldn't be easier as there are only 2 wires to connect. Even with a couple "Rob Moves" you can have your locks working great in less than an hr. One of the NorCal guys originally spit out this tip (Sorry I can't remember who) and I would have to rank it as a top 10 (At least if you have lock problems (and who doesn't LOL)) Rob Harrison 85 Grand Wagoneer ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 11:21:58 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Decisions, decisions! A: I just picked up an '88 XJ Cherokee 4 dr with 160K, mostly from being towed behind a motorhome, and it has a 4.0L, 5 speed with dark tinted power windows and manual seats in nice shape. I'm debating putting them both in the Comanche! I'm also debating on using the 4.0L in it to make Blackie (my '84 J10) function again right away (I'm jonesing for leg room AND 4WD with tow power! I can't believe I started my project last year at this time!) and till my stroker motor is assembled {I still need to get the training on the new LPG-EFI under my belt, although I have a basic understanding and could make it work, I'd sooner have the real deal rather than learn from hard knock$!), or fix the '88 (the orange with black trace wire is spot melted several places like a torch was stuck on it, so it doesn't run, plus the red paint is badly peeled on the hood due to Florida sun and the interior is "musty" with signs of past rodent infestation. There is only 1 dent in the body and I have clear title, so it's saleable alone), then I could sell it or sell my Comanche to get the money to fly out and take the course (It'll cost about $3G), or sell both, and use the money to finish my truck right now and get another $250 junker (I found an '81 Rabbit diesel with 60K for $250 that only needs a rad and headgasket) for to and from work. (I'll probably part it out, get my J10 moving on gasoline for now, sell the Comanche and THEN take the course! That way I can drive Blackie to the picnic in July!) I towed the '88 (XJ) Cherokee home behind my '86 (MJ) Comanche (160K original 4 cyl 5 speed ) down the I-90 and I-5 at 50-60 mph w/o any probs going or stopping (I had to hit 2nd gear coming up my 15% (?) grade hill to my place, but I still held the 30 mph speed limit!) I'm going to miss "Whitey", but I sure need the legroom and storage space of the J10! (and the head turning, back off or be run over, Back-in-Black, don't mess with Tx, getouttamiway-ness of 33" tires, Big, Black and Chrome!) I'll also be able to pull another big trailer should I sell my house before summer's out. I already have someone wanting the 5 speed. I'm tempted to make my Comanche 4x4, but I don't have the 4x4 output shaft. So many things to do, and it's raining on my days off now! :^( A couple more emails, then I'm off to work again! ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 12:25:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Re: starting question A: Your static engine timing (timing while cranking) is too far ahead, so the motor is fighting back each time it fires, till the starter turns it fast enough to overcome the uneven compression and ease it's load. If the nose bushing on direct drive starters is worn more than 1/16" (IIRC. been awhile since I did starter specs), the armature goes off center, and out of the most power productive part of the magnetic field (the power drops exponentially as the armature gets closer to the outer field windings) In my getcha back box on Elmo (actually, in the ashtray) I kept a spare nose bushing and lock ring kit, just in case I needed to make a trail/roadside repair. In the end, I opted for a stowed away spare starter strapped down under the hood, in a padded box, inside a sealed ziplock bag (due to dust, water and other possible contaminants) Never needed it (I rebuilt the starter myself with the kit, when it was taken off my Eagle. I took it off and put it on the '84 GW I parted, so I could run it up after it's original starter croaked while trying to go after sitting for a year, then I put it in Elmo under the hood) On my Dodge big blocks, I had the same problem, but the compression was so high that the fuel was trying to ignite alĺ diesel style (before the spark) and it kicked back, ruining many reduction drive starters even. I got a kit for throttle adjustment for a tractor (I forget where now. That's -at-20 years ago, and the car falling on my head caused a "access denied" error message when I try to access it at this time) Essentially it was a cable with a manual twist adjustment so I could alter timing on the run (back then I could hear my motor ping with clarity. After losing a couple Chev smallblock pistons due to detonation I thought was loose valves, I took the mechanics course) When you pump the gas pedal, it momentarily floods the cylinder, which slows down the spark's flame propagation just enough to overcome the inertia, friction, compression uneveness, and whatever else I can't think of at the moment that keeps it from catching up to idle speed. For a VERY basic explanation, have you ever ridden a tricycle that didn't have a coast mechanism? If it's rolling along (the starter) but you want to go the opposite way (a motor with timing advanced too far tires to push the piston back down before it gets to the top) and you try to back pedal, you run into the opposing force (slow cranking), but if you pedal the same way as the wheel (the way the starter is turning, with the motor timing retarded or at least matched to TDC) it turns much easier. Too far retarded, and the compression and power is lost before the piston reaches bottom (in fact, if it's so far retarded that it's still burning as the piston comes up, and the intake valve opens, you get carb backfire. You can also get carb backfire when an exhaust pushrod comes off, or the cam lobe goes flat, because the flame has no place to go w/o the exhaust valve opening)    From: "Lee Smith" I've been trying to figure this one out for years. Starting is easier when the timing is set correctly. I put in an Optima battery and a rebuilt starter and the problem disappeared for a couple months. When the starter started to drag I replaced it with another rebuilt on and took the old one to a re-manufacturer and asked him to rebuild it. He checked it out first and said it was fine, well within spec. I am still scratching my head on this one but for the moment I have found that if I give the gas pedal a stab just before starting, the engine turns over sasier and fires right up. I live in a pretty warm climate so my motor has no trouble reaching operating temp quickly and it takes a while to cool off too. I just try to keep everything in good condition (ignition, carb, cooling, wires, etc. Good Luck, Lee Smith '84 GW (The Money Pit) 401, MSD6A, TF727, NP229 3.31 Dana 44 & AMC20 4" Skyjacker & Rancho 9k's Chandler, AZ smithly-at-neta.com   --- In 1FSJ-at-y..., who8787-at-a... wrote: i have a 78 J-20 with a 360. it always starts right up, except after it has been driven or warmed up. i went to the store etc and shut it off. came out 5 mins later and it sounds like it doesnt want to start, battery is good it just cranks, stops, cranks, stops, then cranks and cranks until it kicks over. Almost sounds like vapor lock but why does the starter stop and go like that. Like i said the battery is awesome, just doesnt like to start AFTER its warmed up. Any ideas?? thanks allen ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1343 **************************