From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Jul 27 10:17:16 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, July 27 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1398 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Quarter panel? fsj: Re: remove bed on j10? fsj: Re: What Each Line of Code Does in A Simple Program fsj: 71 brochure fsj: tonka RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers fsj: Re: status Re: fsj: tonka RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers fsj: Re: 88 grand wagoneer fsj: the early years.. FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:29:40 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Quarter panel? In a message dated 7/25/01 4:48:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >isn't it just screwed on? > >R.J. Methinks RJ and Mr. Milam are referring to something other than a quarter pane. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:34:11 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: remove bed on j10? Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 11:59:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) (snip) >Why not get some pipe >that fits in your box's post holes and put the new box on upside down? That's what I did when I replaced the box on my F-250. I drove 150 miles home in near white-out conditions and the box stayed very stable. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:54:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: What Each Line of Code Does in A Simple Program A: If you get this email from someone else (ie: king79-at-apk.net (Mark) DELETE IT W/O OPENING IT! If you got and opened the other .pif emails, this will give them TOTAL access to your computer! Someone is out to destroy the members of the Jeep-list and others online. (If anyone wants to read the program, I "may" be able to disable it enough for you to read it like I can.) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:53:27 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: 71 brochure ben! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1168868018 - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:16:44 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: tonka already have one: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1618902073 :) john ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:39:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers From: dbeiers-at-rmpprestress.com (Daniel Beiers) Thanks a lot, great info here. I am confused.... NP208 from 80 to 88 NP219 from 80 to 81 NP229 from 82 to 91 NP228 in 86 So I f I bought and 86 I could have a Command-Trac with a TF727 and NP208 or A Selec-Trac with the same tranny and a 228 If I were to buy and 87 it would be the same in the Command-Trac version but have the NP229 instead of the 228 in the Selec-trac version? Am I even close :) I am really confused. Which tcase is the least complicated...the NP208. I am looking for something that functions like the Dana 300 in my CJ 4hi, 4lo, 2hi, N Thanks a lot for your help and opinion. I am in Denver looking to spend about 4 grand. Thanks again Dan previous message: A: '62 to '73 were all part time AFAIK, then Borg Warner's Quadratrac came out in '74 to '79 with the TH400 auto tranny. The shift options were 4 hi, 4 lo and Edrive which locked front and rear together. (Part time Command-trac Dana 20 was still used with standards till '79, then Command-trac NP208 was used as the factory part time unit from '80 till '88, no doubt due to the fact Jeep switched from TH400 trannies in '79 to AMC pattern cased Dodge 727s in '80). New process made a quasi-QT NP219 in '80/'81. It had the shift options of 4hi, 4hi lock, N, and 4 lo locked. There is a part time kit for the BW unit, but some people seem less than impressed with it afterwards.       '82 brought out the Selectrac NP229 till '91, with '86ish being NP228 (same as NP229, but no viscous coupler) It had the shift options of 2wd hi, 4hi, N, and 4 lo locked. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:54:06 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: status Very cool Jamie. When you give this much thought to these things, you can't mess up. I live in Bolingbrook, IL. When I can't find parts, I go west and south on Kingery highway to Hub auto and Cal Sag which are two huge wrecking yards along the Cal Sag ship canal. Cal Sag is the oldest and has about a million brake drums and rotors in sheds out of the weather, and many have the make and number of the vehicle on them. However, sounds like you already solved that problem with the axle swap. Drop me a line if you get around Bolingbrook or Downers Grove. I'd like to meet a few of the list members in this area. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, July 22, 2001 9:33 PM Subject: fsj: status > Just thought I would give an up date on my '73 J-4600. > > A little reminder of who I am. My name is Jamie Phillips and I live in > Buffalo Grove, Illinois. (a Chicago Suburb) > > I have a '73 J-4600 truck, 360 2bbl, TH400, Quadra Trac, Dana 44-front, Dana > 60 Semi Floater- Rear. > > With work, my house and the Army Reserves I'm not able to devote much time to > work on my truck. > > My biggest problem so far has been the brake system. It uses 2" x 12" on 5 > lug drums on all four wheels and the parts are not made any more. Anyway, I > have scrounged enough parts for the rear axle but the front gave me problems. > The previous owner apparently realized the problem with getting parts (he > never mentioned this to me when selling the vehicle) and attampted to convert > one side to a different system. I believe it was the more common Jeep 2" x > 11" drum. > > Well I scratched my head for a long time trying to decide how to convert the > front axle to the same system on both wheels (one that I could get parts > for). Unfortunately the axle was a closed knuckle axle so doing the knuckle > out conversion wasn't possible. > > So I finally broke down and decided to do what a number of people here on the > list had already recommended, an axle swap. > > After talking to a number of people I determined that an axle from a late > 70's Blazer would be a good option. The differential was on the passenger > side and the width was maybe an inch more. > > I got intouch with a guy in the area that has been doing axle work > (especially with Dana's) for a number of year out of his house. I talked to > him for awhile and deterimined that he had the right tools and experience I > lacked to do my axle work. > > So he went out and found a '78 Blazer Dana 44 front axle for me, swapped the > 4.10 gears from my axle into the Blazer axle (correctly), replaced all the > bearings and seals and welded new pads on the axle. He also got '79 Bronco > "knuckles out" so that I could keep my 5-lug wheel pattern. > > With the axle out, I decided to do fix some leaks under the truck. I pulled > the oil pan off (real easy without the axle there) to replace the gasket. > That was when I noticed that the connecting rods and caps had the cylinder > number stamped on them. At first I assumed this ment that previous work had > been done on the engine. Then I looked through my TSM and it indicated it > came from the factory this way. Is this done on most engines? > > Anyway, I have to repair some transmission cooler line leaks then put the > axle in. Hopefully I wont have to many problems with the steering linkage. > I also already have an adjustable break proportioning valve to adjust the > hybrid break system. > > Then there is the exhaust problem..... > > > Later, > Jamie "I just keep working a little at a time" Phillips > '73 J-4600 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 08:27:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: tonka Is it just me, or does that toy have "saggy waggy" syndrome? ;-) - --- john wrote: > already have one: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1618902073 > :) > john ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ======================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ======================================================================= Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:25:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers Another thing to think about is the axles. The Dana 44 was offered from ??-79, and 87(?)-91. The AMC model 20 was in the rear from 80-86. I forget, was the switch from the 20->44 in 87 or was it 88? The Dana 44 in the front has been there since the early 70's, although some in the early 80's had the vacuum disconnect, which, in my (and others) opinion, is a bad thing. The vacuum disconnect, I believe, was mated with a particular TC, again, I'm not sure of the specifics...but I'm sure someone here knows... Greg FSJ-less in Portland, OR - --- jim blair wrote: > From: dbeiers-at-rmpprestress.com (Daniel Beiers) > > Thanks a lot, great info here. > I am confused.... > NP208 from 80 to 88 > NP219 from 80 to 81 > NP229 from 82 to 91 > NP228 in 86 > So I f I bought and 86 I could have a Command-Trac with a TF727 and > NP208 or > A Selec-Trac with the same tranny and a 228 > If I were to buy and 87 it would be the same in the Command-Trac version > but have the NP229 instead of the 228 in the Selec-trac version? > Am I even close :) I am really confused. Which tcase is the least > complicated...the NP208. I am looking for something that functions like > the Dana 300 in my CJ 4hi, 4lo, 2hi, N > Thanks a lot for your help and opinion. > I am in Denver looking to spend about 4 grand. > Thanks again > Dan > > previous message: > A: '62 to '73 were all part time AFAIK, then Borg Warner's Quadratrac > came out in '74 to '79 with the TH400 auto tranny. The shift options > were 4 hi, 4 lo and Edrive which locked front and rear together. (Part > time Command-trac Dana 20 was still used with standards till '79, then > Command-trac NP208 was used as the factory part time unit from '80 till > '88, no doubt due to the fact Jeep switched from TH400 trannies in '79 > to AMC pattern cased Dodge 727s in '80). New process made a quasi-QT > NP219 in '80/'81. It had the shift options of 4hi, 4hi lock, N, and 4 lo > locked. There is a part time kit for the BW unit, but some people seem > less than impressed with it afterwards. >       '82 brought out the Selectrac NP229 till '91, with > '86ish being NP228 > (same as NP229, but no viscous coupler) It had the shift options of 2wd > hi, 4hi, N, and 4 lo locked. > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche > http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 > ************************************** Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 09:34:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers Well, my 84 has a Dana 44 front, with vacuum disconnect, a TF-727 tranny mated to an NP229 t-case, with an AMC 20 rear axle. Don't know if that helps. Alex - --- Greg Loxtercamp wrote: > Another thing to think about is the axles. The Dana 44 was offered from ??-79, > and 87(?)-91. The AMC model 20 was in the rear from 80-86. I forget, was the > switch from the 20->44 in 87 or was it 88? > > The Dana 44 in the front has been there since the early 70's, although some in > the early 80's had the vacuum disconnect, which, in my (and others) opinion, is > a bad thing. The vacuum disconnect, I believe, was mated with a particular TC, > again, I'm not sure of the specifics...but I'm sure someone here knows... > > Greg > FSJ-less in Portland, OR > > > --- jim blair wrote: > > From: dbeiers-at-rmpprestress.com (Daniel Beiers) > > > > Thanks a lot, great info here. > > I am confused.... > > NP208 from 80 to 88 > > NP219 from 80 to 81 > > NP229 from 82 to 91 > > NP228 in 86 > > So I f I bought and 86 I could have a Command-Trac with a TF727 and > > NP208 or > > A Selec-Trac with the same tranny and a 228 > > If I were to buy and 87 it would be the same in the Command-Trac version > > but have the NP229 instead of the 228 in the Selec-trac version? > > Am I even close :) I am really confused. Which tcase is the least > > complicated...the NP208. I am looking for something that functions like > > the Dana 300 in my CJ 4hi, 4lo, 2hi, N > > Thanks a lot for your help and opinion. > > I am in Denver looking to spend about 4 grand. > > Thanks again > > Dan > > > > previous message: > > A: '62 to '73 were all part time AFAIK, then Borg Warner's Quadratrac > > came out in '74 to '79 with the TH400 auto tranny. The shift options > > were 4 hi, 4 lo and Edrive which locked front and rear together. (Part > > time Command-trac Dana 20 was still used with standards till '79, then > > Command-trac NP208 was used as the factory part time unit from '80 till > > '88, no doubt due to the fact Jeep switched from TH400 trannies in '79 > > to AMC pattern cased Dodge 727s in '80). New process made a quasi-QT > > NP219 in '80/'81. It had the shift options of 4hi, 4hi lock, N, and 4 lo > > locked. There is a part time kit for the BW unit, but some people seem > > less than impressed with it afterwards. > >       '82 brought out the Selectrac NP229 till '91, with > > '86ish being NP228 > > (same as NP229, but no viscous coupler) It had the shift options of 2wd > > hi, 4hi, N, and 4 lo locked. > > > > ************************************* > > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche > > http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ > > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 > > ************************************** > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ======================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ======================================================================= Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:43:11 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers I belive the switch from 20 to 44 was in late 87 as I know of at least 1 87 that had the 20 in the rear and the only GW I have ever personally seen with the 44 rear was an 88. I agree that the vacuum disconnect front axle was a very bad idea no matter how you look at it. ================================== JC Jones 79 J-10 "Max" 84 Grand Wagoneer "Eeyore" 86 Cherokee XJ "Junior" http://www.wagoneer.net ================================== - -> -----Original Message----- - -> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On - -> Behalf Of Greg Loxtercamp - -> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2001 10:25 AM - -> To: fsj-at-digest.net; dbeiers-at-rmpprestress.com - -> Subject: RE: fsj: FW: [JEEP-L] Looking at Wagoneers - -> - -> - -> Another thing to think about is the axles. The Dana 44 was - -> offered from ??-79, and 87(?)-91. The AMC model 20 was in - -> the rear from 80-86. I forget, was the switch from the - -> 20->44 in 87 or was it 88? - -> - -> The Dana 44 in the front has been there since the early - -> 70's, although some in the early 80's had the vacuum - -> disconnect, which, in my (and others) opinion, is a bad - -> thing. The vacuum disconnect, I believe, was mated with a - -> particular TC, again, I'm not sure of the specifics...but - -> I'm sure someone here knows... - -> - -> Greg - -> FSJ-less in Portland, OR - -> - -> - -> --- jim blair wrote: - -> > From: dbeiers-at-rmpprestress.com (Daniel Beiers) - -> > - -> > Thanks a lot, great info here. - -> > I am confused.... - -> > NP208 from 80 to 88 - -> > NP219 from 80 to 81 - -> > NP229 from 82 to 91 - -> > NP228 in 86 - -> > So I f I bought and 86 I could have a Command-Trac with a - -> TF727 and - -> > NP208 or A Selec-Trac with the same tranny and a 228 - -> > If I were to buy and 87 it would be the same in the - -> Command-Trac version - -> > but have the NP229 instead of the 228 in the Selec-trac version? - -> > Am I even close :) I am really confused. Which tcase is the least - -> > complicated...the NP208. I am looking for something that - -> functions like - -> > the Dana 300 in my CJ 4hi, 4lo, 2hi, N - -> > Thanks a lot for your help and opinion. - -> > I am in Denver looking to spend about 4 grand. - -> > Thanks again - -> > Dan - -> > - -> > previous message: - -> > A: '62 to '73 were all part time AFAIK, then Borg Warner's - -> Quadratrac - -> > came out in '74 to '79 with the TH400 auto tranny. The - -> shift options - -> > were 4 hi, 4 lo and Edrive which locked front and rear - -> together. (Part - -> > time Command-trac Dana 20 was still used with standards - -> till '79, then - -> > Command-trac NP208 was used as the factory part time unit from '80 - -> > till '88, no doubt due to the fact Jeep switched from - -> TH400 trannies - -> > in '79 to AMC pattern cased Dodge 727s in '80). New process made a - -> > quasi-QT NP219 in '80/'81. It had the shift options of - -> 4hi, 4hi lock, - -> > N, and 4 lo locked. There is a part time kit for the BW - -> unit, but some - -> > people seem less than impressed with it afterwards. - -> >       '82 brought out the Selectrac NP229 till '91, with - -> '86ish being - -> > NP228 (same as NP229, but no viscous coupler) It had the - -> shift options - -> > of 2wd hi, 4hi, N, and 4 lo locked. - -> > - -> > ************************************* - -> > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche - -> > http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ - -> > http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 - -> > ************************************** - -> Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with - -> Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ - -> - -> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 18:12:40 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 88 grand wagoneer At 08:47 PM 7/26/01 -0400, DDshust-at-aol.com wrote: >Thanks John for answering so quick. I am just finding the time to get back to >you. I like the idea of the Jeep 4.0 engine. Will that match up to the 727 >trans, or would I have to use another trans to adapt to my T-case? Do you >think that the 258 six would be a worthy option if I install the Mopar fuel >injection kit? >Dave yes, it would be and it would solve the problem of mating a different transmission. The aisin-warner transmission is excellent, but unless you go with an XJ xfr case with the Slip Yoke you'll have to make a custom adapter. The Mopar kit is expensive and will interfere with the brake booster, forcing you to do a body lift (terrible, huh? ;) , hydraboost or a smaller brake booster. a friend down in California did it and loves it. Yes, that would be a good way of going... it'll cost more but in the long run solve many problems. john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:36:02 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: the early years.. Try John Miester. at http://www.wagoneers.com or e mail.. john-at-virtual-cafe.com He might know, He is very Knowledgeable.. R.J. Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 22:21:05 -0400 From: "Frank Sanborn" Subject: Early J-truck production stats Does anybody have any info on early J-series production numbers? I'm looking for info on how many of each model were built, and when they were built. I'm looking for info on the first few years of production - '63 to '66 or so. Thanks- Frank (MI) ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1398 **************************