From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jul 31 11:31:52 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, July 31 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1403 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: 1/2 ton and so on fsj: wrenchin' Re: fsj: californian/canadian... blind leading blind... RE: fsj: 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton? Re: fsj: New Waggy Owner - Re: fsj: '90GW Throttle Valve Linkage Re: fsj: RE: More CJ-10 Info fsj: New Waggy fsj: Throttle Valve Linkage fsj: Selectrac - NO LOCKING HUBS, don't do it!!!! fsj: SUVs: then and now fsj: fuel injection experience? Re: [fsj: Throttle Valve Linkage] FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:29:17 -0700 From: "allyoop" Subject: fsj: 1/2 ton and so on Just got back this morning from Associated Sand and Gravel in Everett, Wash., where the wizard with the monster front loader filled the bed of my '73 J4600 LWB Townside with maybe a half yard of their gorgeous 5/8 minus gravel. Wet. Back here at the ranch I unloaded 8 1/2 wheelbarrow loads (18 heaping flat-nosed shovels per ) -- 200 pounds plus per barrow. I had about an inch of clearance between the axle and bump stop before I started unloading. The truck felt pretty heavy on the trip home and didn't really like stopping (hills were OK with the 4.11 axles). I must have had close to 2,000 pounds of product aboard. The time I hauled the broken sidewalk was worse. Still workin' Walt Greenwood ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 01:12:32 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: wrenchin' not sure it was a good idea, my hands are letting me know I shouldn't have... :) thought I was better... ;) carpal tunnel, tendonitis, whatever it is, isn't a lot of fun... At least I could operate a ratchet... a few weeks ago I couldn't even pull a spark plug wire without pain... still need to finish the brakes on the WJ... got the front rotor/caliper off... the pad was gone... was using rivets to stop. :) sure made some UGLY noises... http://wagoneers.com/WJ/tech/WJ-brakes The little blue cherokee doesn't clunk anymore... replaced the track bar... man those things went up in price! list is $152!!! I could have had the front end shop in everett install it for $130! sheesh... http://wagoneers.com/XJ/tech/XJ-trackbar (still haven't really figured out this camera yet... the autofocus isn't as simple as the D460 was...) The 87 and up XJ trackbars are a lot easier to deal with than the original ones (84-85). I think they modified them and beefed them up around mid 86 or so... reinforced the frame... my '85 worked loose from the frame... the wobble-o-death experience... hey, you know this track bar was really bad, never saw the death-wobble... I wonder if the reinforced bracket helped. My '85 probably did it because the bracket was coming loose on the frame... Anyone with a newer (i.e. 87 and up) XJ experience the wobble-o-death? If you don't know what I mean, you haven't... rofl... and may you never experience it... if you have a weak sphincter it could be rather messy... ;) later, john - ----------------------------- http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=dieseljohn - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:27:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: californian/canadian... blind leading blind... A: Weird! fsj-digest V1 #1394 just showed up! I noticed those were NCB.com (my browser shows the addy to where I'm going in 2" tall letters on the top of my screen, diagonal to the "pulse" that shows me that Webtv is actually doing something when I click a link!) I merely mentioned the weird and wild things I DON'T want to see in Seattle, which seem to keep popping up! The concrete in my driveway is nearly done (no more rocks bouncing off my siding everytime someone pulls out of my driveway!) and Scotty's bumpers have been ordered for Blackie. From: john neither one of you C types noticed that the links were "NORTH CAROLINA". sheesh...                   "northcarolinabeaters" I expected something like that from Jim, but not Pat... ;) been out in the sun too long today pat??? ;) rofl... From: Pat Hines Subject: Re: fsj: too bizarre...          Lots of rain, boredom sets in, left over lawn furniture paint, extra exhaust tubing lying around...                   You Wash. state boys are a little strange. Pat James Blair wrote: A: You should(n't) see what they do to XJs and FSJs in Rainier Valley! (Makes you wanna puke!) I don't want to waste the electrons on taking the pics of them. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:39:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: RE: fsj: 1/2, 3/4, 1 ton? A: Once I change the wheel studs on Blackie (from 1/2" to 14mm) I will qualify as a 3/4 ton (especially since my axles will be stronger than an '88 or newer 1 ton 2WD Chev that I got my 16" rims from! That and my load range D 10.5/33" tires and new 3" lift factory snowplow with tow package rated springs ) I got a full set of nice 14mm wheel lugs, and just need to find locknuts for it now! From: David Charles Gedraitis I don't know about the others, but that's right for an M-715 (I have yet to make the springs in that thing move an inch). ~dave On Sat, 28 Jul 2001 mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net wrote: Wags are 1/2T J10's are 1/2T J20's are 3/4T M-715 I think are 1 1/2 T Michael Shimniok ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:52:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: New Waggy Owner - From: Alexander Wall >>3. What about the front axle. I looked for vacuum tubes to it but didn't think I saw any. I will look closer but I am thinking the front hubs are essentially locked at all time, is this correct.      >If there is no vacuum control, and no locking hubs, then it is full-time. A: Correct! >>4. Can I replace the hubs with manually locking hubs? Can I do it if its a vacuum actuated unit. Can I disconnect the vacuum setup and basically permanently have it in the locked position and then add manually locking hubs?      >Yes, you can put locking hubs in. Yes you can disconnect a vacuum setup for full-time. I don't know about the last one. A: Most '85s no longer have the vacuum axle shift (it looks like a mushroom growth on the front diff cover). If you add locking hubs, and accidently put it into 4hi w/o locking them, you can kiss the viscous coupler in the case goodbye in short order! (all it takes is 100lbs or so of torsional force to rip it apart. I accidently did one with a torque wrench because I read ft/lbs, when it was to be tested for in/lbs!) >>5. I'm taking it in for a hitch this week. Wondering if I need to look at the rear springs and shocks for towing. maybe an add-a-leaf and some heavier shocks? Any recommendations.      >Both of those will give you a towing improvement. The rear springs on these babies are notorious for sagging, which doesn't help when towing. A: If you can get an old main leaf for a FSJ from someone, cut the eyes off it, and put it in #2 position of the rear spring pack, and it will handle like a new Jeep! Heavier shocks don't hurt either. I'd like Edelbrocks, but I got a deal on a set of 4" lift Trailmasters. >>6. What is the biggest tire I can safely run with no lift on this thing? It looks like a 30" tire might be pushing it.      >I run 31x11.50s (Thanks, Jim), but they do rub under articulation of any signinficance. ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA A: Glad they work well on a GW> There wasn't enough rear weight on Blackie to make them work right. The 10.5/33" tires (Avon 255/85/16 on '88 or newer Chev 2WD rims. The 4WD ones were wrong offset! Pics of tires and tread on my Photopoint below) I have now will be just right! The narrower 33/9.5/15 might work on a GW, but it seemed like there would be too much sidewall flex for the way I drive! (fully loaded, 5th wheel in tow, 70 mph legally!) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 03:57:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: '90GW Throttle Valve Linkage A: Set it so the upshift from 1st to 2nd (flat surface, minimal throttle) is 17-20 mph (depending on tire size and gear ratio) and 2nd to drive at 25-30 mph. The Dodge trans uses line pressure to affect upshifts. The tighter it is, the higher the upshift point. Too low = trans burning out early. Too high = wasted gas and possible engine damage. From: mike-at-tangledroots.com (Michael Powell) Hey folks, Can somebody tell me the best way to adjust the throttle valve linkage on a '90 GW? As I move the bellcrank lever by hand I can feel a range of motion where there isn't much resistance. Then if I move it far enough toward the front of the car I can feel a point at which there is more resistance, like it is now actually pulling on something inside the transmission. When I first set the TV linkage I pulled the connection tighter so that at the idle position on the throttle the bellcrank lever was just at the point where I started to feel resistance. Then I test drove the car and found that it had to wind up to a really high rpm before it would switch gears. Obviously, I had set the linkage wrong. How should I set it? Should the bell crank lever only be pulled into the range with resistance when the pedal is floored? I'm confused. Thanks! Mike Powell ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 04:03:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck2-at-webtv.net (jim blair) Subject: Re: fsj: RE: More CJ-10 Info A: Not too bad, but I want the 4 door extended wagon model! (back end looks like a Cherokee with barn doors) I wish I could access the minipic I have in my favs file to make a print of it (rear 1/4 view) and the headlights on it were also round. From: "Phillips, Scott" I found one for sale in Venezuela... Wend llanero Jeep II Placed the 6/12/01 11:23:59 A.m. Content of the Warning Llanero Wend jeep II in perfect new motor state new rubbers. this turkey. Information of the Contact Address: Caracas, DF Contact: Revel Robert Telephone: 2778205 Price: Bs. 5000000 To return to Warnings      Lehi ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:06:26 -0500 From: Landon Tesar Subject: fsj: New Waggy > 5. I'm taking it in for a hitch this week. Wondering if I need to look at > the rear springs and shocks for towing. maybe an add-a-leaf and some > heavier shocks? Any recommendations. > Dan, my '89 has some coil over 'helper' shocks on the rear that I recommend. The ride quality seems to be maintained, and I don't have any wag sag that I am aware of. I believe they are factory. > 6. What is the biggest tire I can safely run with no lift on this thing? It > looks like a 30" tire might be pushing it. > I put 30x9.5 on mine with no problems. It seems that 31 x 10.5 are also popular. A body lift has been recommended as an opportunity to improve/repair the body isolation, as well as make room for 31s and all possible wheel travel. - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 09:38:04 -0500 From: Landon Tesar Subject: fsj: Throttle Valve Linkage Guys, from my perspective, the Haynes manual was worse than useless and just wasted my time. If the springs are connected properly, adjustment is just a simple slackening of the slide bolt (nut?) and trial and error. Moving the slide in one direction will increase rpms before shift, and vice versa. Start with the slide bolt in the middle of the section between the end of the slide and the kink in the center. Drive it and note the shift points. Move it all the way to one end. Drive it and note the shift points. Repeat until you are satisfied. Jim B. recommends shifts at no less than 15mph for 1-2, and 25 mph for 2-3 with 3:31 gears to save wear on the trans clutches. - - Landon '89 GW (water in gas tank following sailboat launch) > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:09:15 -0400 > From: mike-at-tangledroots.com (Michael Powell) > Subject: Re: fsj: '90GW Throttle Valve Linkage > > On the driver's side of the carb there's a linkage between the throttle lever and a > bigger black bell crank lever arm at the rear of the engine compartment. The bigger > lever is connected all the way back to the transmission itself at a point just above the > pan on the driver's side. On the throttle linkage there is a little nylon guide that > travels in wire loop with a couple of springs that hold it in position. There is a 3/8" > hex adjusting bolt. You can set the distance from the nylon guide to the bell crank > lever by loosening this bolt. As you push down on the accelerator the throttle linkage > pulls on the bell crank lever and it affects at what RPM level the transmission will > shift. This lever is responsible for making the transmission downshift (go into > overdrive) when the pedal is floored. > > This is just about everything I know on the subject. Check a Haynes manual or the > original Jeep service manual for pictures and the adjustment procedure. You can get the > original Jeep factory service manual for around $50 by calling Chrysler publications 800 > number. I don't have the number with me right now but a dealer can provide this info. > > Best, > Mike > > Alexander Wall wrote: > > > Mike, > > > > Can you explain the procedure involved in what you did with your throttle valve? I > > want to raise the RPM level for shifting on mine, but I don't even know where that > > linkage is! Right now, it shifts WAY too early. > > > > Thanks! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 10:03:39 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Selectrac - NO LOCKING HUBS, don't do it!!!! On Mon, 30 Jul 2001, fsj-digest wrote: >-->fsj-digest Monday, July 30 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1402 >--> Re: fsj: New Waggy Owner - New to list >--> RE: fsj: New Waggy Owner - New to list >-->------------------------------ >--> >-->Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:47:00 -0600 >-->From: "Daniel Beiers" >-->Subject: fsj: New Waggy Owner - New to list >--> >-->Hey Guys >--> >-->1. Can it be shifted into low range without first being in four wheel drive? >-->kinda like a twin-stick setup - 2 wheel low. The reason I ask is because >-->when I moved the switch from 2wd to 4wd in my new truck there was no >-->indicator light to say I was in 4wd. But I was able to shift into low >-->range. What do you think? you have a selectrac transfer case... chain driven... no 2wd low. ;) >-->3. What about the front axle. I looked for vacuum tubes to it but didn't >-->think I saw any. I will look closer but I am thinking the front hubs are >-->essentially locked at all time, is this correct. YES, AND KEEP THEM THAT WAY UNLESS you want to spend about $750 to have the viscous coupler replaced!!!! Someone advised locking hubs - DO NOT DO IT ON A SELECTRAC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >-->4. Can I replace the hubs with manually locking hubs? Can I do it if its a NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. >-->5. I'm taking it in for a hitch this week. Wondering if I need to look at >-->the rear springs and shocks for towing. maybe an add-a-leaf and some >-->heavier shocks? Any recommendations. add-a-leafs would help... get the full leaf variety... >-->6. What is the biggest tire I can safely run with no lift on this thing? It >-->looks like a 30" tire might be pushing it. 31x10.5's will fit... I wouldn't go over 30x9.5 because of gearing issues... >-->Thought some of you might like this. I bought this thing from the first >-->owner. He has the originally window stickers for this truck as well as the >-->color dealership pamphlet. Totally cool stuff. Sticker price in 85 was >-->23,747 with high country package. Cool stuff :) cool... >--> >--> If there is no vacuum control, and no locking hubs, then it is full-time. wrong... the selectrac units have no locking hubs, and they're a 2wd/full-time unit. >-->> 4. Can I replace the hubs with manually locking hubs? Can I do it if its a >-->> vacuum actuated unit. Can I disconnect the vacuum setup and basically >-->> permanently have it in the locked position and then add manually locking >-->> hubs? >--> >--> Yes, you can put locking hubs in. Yes you can disconnect a vacuum setup for >-->full-time. I don't know about the last one. WRONG, do NOT put locking hubs on. If you engage 4wd with them disengaged you'll blow the coupler... You could eliminate the vacuum motor setup, the '87 and up Jeeps (XJ) did, front driveshaft spins all the time.... ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:22:38 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: SUVs: then and now http://www.theiowachannel.com/sh/automotive/stories/automotive-89728020010731-100756.html Group: SUV Bumpers Don't Hold Up Insurance Institute Issues Ratings WASHINGTON, 11:31 a.m. EDT July 31, 2001 -- SUV's are taking another hit, in the aftermath of some bumper crash tests. The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety says six of the seven mid-size sport utility vehicles it tested suffered significant bumper damage in low-speed crashes. The tests were conducted at a speed of 5 mph to simulate the kind of impact that occurs in parking lots or in slow-moving rush hour traffic. When they added up the damage, experts found that the Acura MDX fared the best. It had as little as $448 worth of damage. The worst performer was the Suzuki Grand Vitara XL7, with nearly $6,000 damage in some tests. The federal government requires cars to pass a 2.5 mph bumper test without damage, but there is no such requirement for SUVs. Good reason to keep the big ol' solid trucks. I once rear-ended a car at 35mph because she pulled in front of me on a very slick road (across four lanes -- she had been stopped at a stop sign; I didn't have any signs or signals), and I had no damage. I was rear-ended on another very slippery day (they had canceled classes for the day at ISU, which was even less common then than it is now) at a stop light at the bottom of an interstate exit ramp by a tow truck towing a car that couldn't get stopped. It hit the trailer hitch. No damage. (And no whiplash, even without headrests.) A month or two ago, I was rear-ended by a car that was rear-ended by another car (distracted driver, basically) while I was stopped for people in the crosswalk (a mother with a baby in a stroller from one side and two bikers from the other side). The middle person's air bag went off. My car: direct impact on the rear bumper; no damage. And I rear-ended a minivan (several years ago) when everybody on the interstate suddenly stopped (I was almost stopped, but not enough) -- broke my plastic grill ($100 used replacement) and lost one of the two rubber bumper stops (didn't want to retrieve it in heavy interstate traffic -- probably should have). All of those were over their 5mph test -- probably at least 15-20mph in each case (and 35mph in one, and another with the tow truck with a car on a downward slope...). So saying their best case was "as little as" $448 of damage sounds like a pretty bad deal to me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's to our wives and sweethearts... May they never meet. -- John Bunny - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:29:04 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: fuel injection experience? A couple months ago, right here on the list, several people were discussing some fuel injections setups they had on FSJs. Several people, IIRC, swore by some third-party fuel injection setup -- wasn't Holley or Edelbrock. Can anybody fill me in? Specifically, I want a good, reliable system to work on a 4bbl manifold. Priorities are solid reliability (especially on the AMC 360), then mileage, then good handling of a variety of elevation changes, and then more power. After my trip to Colorado (just got back), I've decided to ditch the Holley Commander 950 system completely. I'll probably send all the details to the list at some point, but for now, let's just say that although I'm back home now, the '88 will be getting here later this week on a semi. I don't want to take off the Edelbrock Performer 4bbl intake manifold, though. If nobody convinces me of a good fuel injection system, I'll get an Edelbrock Performer 4bbl carb to match the manifold and put adjustable jets on it. Looking forward to your opinions, especially if backed by experience! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong. -- Buckminster Fuller - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: 31 Jul 2001 12:29:49 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Throttle Valve Linkage] I thought the idea was that under full throttle, the linkage is pulled all the way forward to force a downshift (if possible) ? *shrug* I'll have to fiddle with the 85 and see if I can tune the shift points a little better...the 86 with the lameo motor is shifting beautifully, not sure if it is the "new" old trans or the stronger motor or that I got the linkage dialed in perfectly. Michael Landon Tesar wrote: > Guys, > > from my perspective, the Haynes manual was worse than useless and just > wasted my time. If the springs are connected properly, adjustment is > just a simple slackening of the slide bolt (nut?) and trial and error. > Moving the slide in one direction will increase rpms before shift, and > vice versa. Start with the slide bolt in the middle of the section > between the end of the slide and the kink in the center. Drive it and > note the shift points. Move it all the way to one end. Drive it and > note the shift points. Repeat until you are satisfied. Jim B. > recommends shifts at no less than 15mph for 1-2, and 25 mph for 2-3 with > 3:31 gears to save wear on the trans clutches. > > - Landon > '89 GW (water in gas tank following sailboat launch) > > > Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 15:09:15 -0400 > > From: mike-at-tangledroots.com (Michael Powell) > > Subject: Re: fsj: '90GW Throttle Valve Linkage > > > > On the driver's side of the carb there's a linkage between the throttle lever and a > > bigger black bell crank lever arm at the rear of the engine compartment. The bigger > > lever is connected all the way back to the transmission itself at a point just above the > > pan on the driver's side. On the throttle linkage there is a little nylon guide that > > travels in wire loop with a couple of springs that hold it in position. There is a 3/8" > > hex adjusting bolt. You can set the distance from the nylon guide to the bell crank > > lever by loosening this bolt. As you push down on the accelerator the throttle linkage > > pulls on the bell crank lever and it affects at what RPM level the transmission will > > shift. This lever is responsible for making the transmission downshift (go into > > overdrive) when the pedal is floored. > > > > This is just about everything I know on the subject. Check a Haynes manual or the > > original Jeep service manual for pictures and the adjustment procedure. You can get the > > original Jeep factory service manual for around $50 by calling Chrysler publications 800 > > number. I don't have the number with me right now but a dealer can provide this info. > > > > Best, > > Mike > > > > Alexander Wall wrote: > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > Can you explain the procedure involved in what you did with your throttle valve? I > > > want to raise the RPM level for shifting on mine, but I don't even know where that > > > linkage is! Right now, it shifts WAY too early. > > > > > > Thanks! - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1403 **************************