From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Aug 3 10:33:43 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, August 2 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1409 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1406 fsj: more on model codes RE: fsj: all I know... RE: fsj: envrionment and other such stuff... fsj: Drum brake spring tool Re: fsj: RE: Another enviro caused catastrophy RE: [fsj: model designators] RE: fsj: model designators fsj: RE: RE: Another enviro caused catastrophy fsj: RE: Drum brake spring tool fsj: Re: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1405 fsj: more FSJ's for my collection Re: fsj: response to sociofascist pap FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:59:23 -0700 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1406 From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) write: >A: Whoa! Where did that come from? Environmentalists don't usually start >fires (I believe the news said it was a drunk camper?), Actually there have been a lot of fires caused by "radical" environmentalists. I'll use the term "radical" to differentiate between a normal environmentalist (ie. you, bill, or myself) and those who are out to eliminate the internal combustion engine, to reduce the population (human), and to generally return us to the stone age. >and you can bet >your boots the fire fighters out there are about as caring about the >woods and wilds as you can get! Agreen 100%. Not talking about the fire fighters. I was stating what a tragedy it was when legislation and red tape and the value of a fish is put before a human life. > The deaths were caused by politics, which comes from the latin word >"poli" meaning many, and "tics" which as everyone knows are near zero >intelligence blood suckers! Agreed as well. BUT they politicans were responding to the GAG's and the "radical" environmental movement when they enacted such red tape which ended up claiming the lives of the fire fighters. Scott ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 15:50:32 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: more on model codes this is out of date, but: http://wagoneers.com/john/JEEPS/jeep-code.html ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:04:37 -0700 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: RE: fsj: all I know... John, At the risk of dragging you into this I have to agree with you. I also have to comment on the way you wrote this: This is what I am trying to say and I guess that I didn't express myself very clearly. I apologise to "environmentalists" because we all should be environmentalists. Everyone who hikes, bikes, hunts, camps, or Jeeps should be. The problem I have is with the "radical" environmentalists. Those who are out to TAKE. They are the ones who are giving the movement the bad name and are responsible for burecratic red tape that kills people like the firefighters previously mentioned. Scott john wrote: all I know is that since the "environmentalists" have worked on their agenda the areas that had been open for me and my family to travel and wheel through and enjoy out here in the west has disappeared. More gates, fewer trails. I look at the costs associated with building, remodeling or adding badly needed roads to our growing community and see severe and unnecessary costs. I learn of communities I've been part of having the water shut off when even the biologists can't agree on what the problem or the solution is while farmers lose their crops, their living and their family heritage... Perhaps the vast majority of people that consider themselves "environmentalists" don't see the end result of the more radical components of the movement. But it's still there and ugly as ever. Follow their thinking to a logical conclusion and it's not a very pleasant thought. It hurts and angers me that I can't take my Jeeps up the forest service roads and enjoy the beautiful views we have because they are gated off... There will be a backlash against these things, and I don't think we'll need a HAM radio to figure it out. Hopefully some of the insanity will be reversed and common and LOCAL sense returns to things. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:06:49 -0700 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: RE: fsj: envrionment and other such stuff... Agreed. My email is always open to differing opinions and I'll reply privatly to anyone who want's to talk more. Scott David Charles Gedraitis wrote: I don't know if anyone else agrees with me, but I think this discussion has gone far enough. Not only is it not Jeep related, which I can deal with-if I don't like it there's always my friendly little "delete" key, but I think some tempers are starting to run high, and I suggest you guys cool off a bit. Yes this is an important topic, but you seem to be bludgeoning each other with your ideas, rather than discussing, and if you want to discuss, start a chatroom, because after a few dozen emails on the environment, I want to get back to preserving my Jeep :-) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:22:02 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Drum brake spring tool On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, David Charles Gedraitis wrote: (snip) > BTW, if anyone should come >across a nice spring tool, feel free to let the rest of us know.... I've got one that works great. It's a long (12" - 18"?) scissors type thing with a different brake tool on each of the 4 ends. The only one I've figured out is the straight end with the v-groove in it. I use it to put springs back on. Hook the bottom part of the spring first. Put the brake tool under the upper end of the spring the then set the v-groove on top of the spring anchor/post/doo-hickey. Use the tool to lever the end of the spring up into place. It just slides right up the tool. To remove springs I usually latch onto the top end with vise-grips and then throw my back out trying to pull the spring off the post. : ) Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 16:46:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Another enviro caused catastrophy FWIW - I don't think that anyone was placing fish lives OVER human ones, neither when the legislation was passed, nor when the series of bad decisions were made, leading to these unfortunate deaths. I feel that overly zealous groups who believe that technology cannot coexist with nature have managed to create some very inconvenient rules out there, but I don't think it is with any malice. They really think that it is the only way to preserve these resources. They don't want to preserve them for the enjoyment of present or future enthusiasts - they want to preserve them to maintain natural balance, ie: erosion control, oxygen replenishment, water-cycle, etc. Alex - --- "Phillips, Scott" wrote: > RFISCHEL-at-osc.state.ny.us wrote: > >You should be embarrassed to hide your anti-environmental vitriol behind > >the deaths of four Firefighters, who through no fault of their own, found > >themselves in the most unfortunate of situations. Tragedies such as these > >always open the door to uneducated finger-pointing such as yours. > > No embarassment at all. According to Bill I AM an environmentalist. What > makes me mad is the fact that these four fire fighters had to lose their > lives at all. Because of the fact that a fish was more important they were > cut off from an escape route and lost their lives. As for uneducated finger > pointing I agree that there was a breakdown in communication and that a lot > of burucratic red tape was involved and this certainly was no less at fault > but the end result is that they died because there are people out there who > think a fish is more important than a person's life. Are you that kind of > person? I'd hate to think so (in face I don't think so but it's just > something to think about). If you were the on scene commander would you have > put there lives in jeopardy? Or would you have just said to heck with the > fish and saved their lives? That's the kind of person I'm talking about. > > >Having worked a couple of fires during summers off from college in > >Missoula, I am here to tell you that most of the men and women fighting > >fires consider themselves environmentalists. They have a deep love of > >nature and the outdoors, and do what they can to preserve it. A lot of > >them do things that most environmentalists do in their off time such as > >hunt and fish. > > Well than you and Bill are both in agreement that I am also an > environmentalist. I also have a deep love of nature and the outdoors. Some > of the most precious memories I have will be of the outdoors and the > experiences I've had enjoying their beauty and splendor. Am I the same as > those who would take away our Jeeps? NO! Guess you'd better make sure who > is being referred to. I guess the word "environmentalist" is a bad one > because technically I'd be one too. I haul out other people's garbage every > time I take my Jeep off the pavement. In fact we pack extra garbage bags > just because we find so many Gatorade bottles and Power Bar wrappers out > there. Not pointing fingers at hikers or bikers, just stating that I love > nature and do my part to keep it clean and beautiful. I also adhere to > Tread Lightly and we police our own whenever we find someone not complying > with those guidelines. Education is one of the most important things we can > do when out and about! > > >Everyone who enjoys > >the outdoors should consider themselves an environmentalist. > > Agreed 100% Again I guess your definition of an environmentalist is > different from the one I was referring to. > > Scott ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 18:50:48 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: RE: [fsj: model designators] How about MJ? ================================== JC Jones 79 J-10 "Max" 84 Grand Wagoneer "Eeyore" 86 Cherokee XJ "Junior" http://www.wagoneer.net ================================== - -> -----Original Message----- - -> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On - -> Behalf Of Michael Shimniok - -> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 4:22 PM - -> To: fsj-at-digest.net - -> Subject: Re: [fsj: model designators] - -> - -> - -> Yup, you forgot YJ, the 1987 - 1996(?) square-headlite bobtail. - -> - -> Did the commandos have a designation? How about the Willys - -> trucks and wagons? Just wonderin' ... - -> - -> Michael - -> - -> john wrote: - -> > CJ - Civilian Jeep - aka bobtail - -> > - -> > DJ - Dispatch or delivery Jeeps - -> > - -> > KJ- Liberty - -> > - -> > SJ - the full size jeeps, 1963 through 1991 (4 made in 1992) - -> > - -> > TJ - recent vintage bobtails - -> > - -> > XJ - downsized Cherokee/Wagoneer 1984 - 2001 - -> > - -> > WJ - Grand Cherokee 1999 and up ( all new design, Quaddradrive!) - -> > - -> > VJ - Jeepster late 40's vintage - -> > - -> > ZJ - Grand Cherokee 1992(?)or3 through 1998 - -> > - -> > - -> > did I forget any? :) - -> > john - -> > - -> > ---- - -> > - -> > - -> ------------------------------------------------------------- - -> ------------ - -> > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) - -> > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** - -> > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, - -> they mold. - -> > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't - -> recommended... - -> > - -> ------------------------------------------------------------- - -> --------- - -> > --- - -> - -> - -> --- - -> Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net - -> "For every complex problem, there is a solution that - -> is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken - -> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:54:37 -0400 From: mpolkkidodge-at-netscape.net Subject: RE: fsj: model designators MJ- Comanche YJ- Early Wrangler 1984-87 Square Head Lights None more than I can think of john wrote: >On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, David Charles Gedraitis wrote: >>-->all right, I feel a bit silly, but this has been an issue with me for a >>-->while-what is what? I know most Jeeps by the consumer type-names, so I >>-->have no idea what is an XJ or WJ or what, so can you point me in the right >>-->direction? >>-->~dave > >CJ - Civilian Jeep - aka bobtail > >DJ - Dispatch or delivery Jeeps > >KJ- Liberty > >SJ - the full size jeeps, 1963 through 1991 (4 made in 1992) > >TJ - recent vintage bobtails > >XJ - downsized Cherokee/Wagoneer 1984 - 2001 > >WJ - Grand Cherokee 1999 and up ( all new design, Quaddradrive!) > >VJ - Jeepster late 40's vintage > >ZJ - Grand Cherokee 1992(?)or3 through 1998 > > >did I forget any? :) >john > > ---- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > __________________________________________________________________ Your favorite stores, helpful shopping tools and great gift ideas. Experience the convenience of buying online with Shop-at-Netscape! http://shopnow.netscape.com/ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:05:56 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Another enviro caused catastrophy There is a big difference between an environmentalist and an environazi. ================================== JC Jones 79 J-10 "Max" 84 Grand Wagoneer "Eeyore" 86 Cherokee XJ "Junior" http://www.wagoneer.net ================================== ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 19:21:13 -0600 From: "JC Jones" Subject: fsj: RE: Drum brake spring tool The end that looks like a cup with an extra tab on one edge is to remove the springs, you place the cup over whatever the spring hook is around, then rotate the cup around until the little tab has got the spring, then just lever the spring off the post. No offense intended to anyone here, but if you have the right tools, drum brakes really are not difficult at all. Basically, if you have to work very hard at any part of a drum brake job you aren't using the right tools. ================================== JC Jones 79 J-10 "Max" 84 Grand Wagoneer "Eeyore" 86 Cherokee XJ "Junior" http://www.wagoneer.net ================================== - -> -----Original Message----- - -> From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On - -> Behalf Of Brazzadog-at-aol.com - -> Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 5:22 PM - -> To: fsj-at-digest.net - -> Subject: fsj: Drum brake spring tool - -> - -> - -> On Thu, 2 Aug 2001, David Charles Gedraitis wrote: - -> (snip) - -> > BTW, if anyone should come - -> >across a nice spring tool, feel free to let the rest of us know.... - -> - -> I've got one that works great. It's a long (12" - 18"?) - -> scissors type thing - -> with a different brake tool on each of the 4 ends. The only - -> one I've figured - -> out is the straight end with the v-groove in it. I use it - -> to put springs - -> back on. Hook the bottom part of the spring first. Put the - -> brake tool under - -> the upper end of the spring the then set the v-groove on top - -> of the spring - -> anchor/post/doo-hickey. Use the tool to lever the end of - -> the spring up into - -> place. It just slides right up the tool. - -> - -> To remove springs I usually latch onto the top end with - -> vise-grips and then - -> throw my back out trying to pull the spring off the post. : ) - -> - -> Ben Williams - -> '71 Wagoneer - -> '78 F-250 4x4 - -> '88 Bronco - -> ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:27:33 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1405 Stop! You're breakin' my heart!!! I't's bleeding me to death!! And I take pleasure in annoying Liberals....... Especially the vegetarian ones. They are crunchy and go well with a full bodied Merlot........ A friend of mine was a vegetarian liberal......when I commented that he must really love animals, he replied, "No, that's not it, I just really hate plants!" - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Killian" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2001 11:49 PM Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1405 > The conservastive banter is annoying. I am a proud liberal. > > Environmentalism is not about taking things away from you but preserving > them so you can share them with your children and their children. > > Yes I am an environmentalist and I have several jeeps - Wagoneer, > Jeepster Commando and Willys Jeep truck. And several other trucks. > > Do you want me telling you how you feel? No? Then perhaps you might > not try telling people like me how we feel about things. > > I bet you'd find a LOT of environmentalists volunteering to help fight > wild fires. I hear a some people complaining that environmetalists are > doing things and then some complaining that they don't. We are not evil > incarnate. We do not want to take you trucks or your guns. > > Fossil fuels are a bad fuel largely because they are horriby > inefficient. We will have to migrate off of them. If we do it soon > enough there will still be some for us who like old and antique trucks > and cars to use the fuel for recreation. > > Bill ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 20:01:02 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: more FSJ's for my collection my tonka collection grows... (only have FSJs in it... ;) http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/Tonkas/ just got a red cement mixer today, very nice.... I got an old red and yellow dump truck the other day, it's rough... I won a blue stake truck, and a red and yellow dump yesterday I have the ambulance, the police car, two yellow wags, one rusty cherokee, a light green gladiator and two red pickups... I'm looking for a tow truck, and a fire truck... :) also won a couple of the Matchbox #71 Gladiators... an empty box for one of them is up to $11.50!!! sheesh... Were there other style Gladiator based tonkas??? What would be really cool is to get a stepside version of the J10 in model, tonka or matchbox form. :) later, john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 22:18:20 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: response to sociofascist pap What do you mean "least oppressive government around"? I love my country just like everyone on this list and I resent your accusations by drawing gun control into this controversy......your Clintonion "bait and switch" response is regrettable. The fact is, the United States government is very oppressive to it's citizens and especially to other world countries. Try yelling something derogatory statement when the president walks by and see how fast the Secret Service and IRS punish you for it. You've lost free public speech and you don't even know it yet. We live in a ridiculous and basically silly country that is the brunt of jokes the world over. I'm guessing you haven't had to work in the private sector to see through those rose colored glasses you have on. My daughter is accepted into the USN this fall and I'm proud of her. My family serves in the armed services during every generation and I can trace my line through to service in the revolutionary and civil war, among others. Your viewpoint is the naive opinion of a young man. When you have kids of your own to worry about, you won't see things the same way. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Wall" To: Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2001 10:24 AM Subject: Re: fsj: response to sociofascist pap > Since when is 500 years considered a sufficient store? You are so self-absorbed > that, as long as you can have your fun gunning down wildlife with assault rifles, then > you don't give a sh*t what happens after you're gone! > The market have never been "peaceful" in any way! Plenty of people suffer through > market fluctuations! > If you want to live in a compound, and mistrust every action of the least oppressive > government around - more power to you. Just don't include us rational gun-toting, > truck-driving, country-serving citizens in your little club! > > Alexander Wall > IT2, USNR > Spokane, WA > > > --- Pat Hines wrote: > > William Killian wrote: > > > > > > The conservastive banter is annoying. I am a proud liberal. > > > > It's not conservative banter, it's genuine American banter. Most > > Americans, and some Canadians, aren't sociofascists taking their cues > > from some european example of "socialist nirvana". > > > > > Environmentalism is not about taking things away from you but preserving > > > them so you can share them with your children and their children. > > > > Crap! > > > > > Yes I am an environmentalist and I have several jeeps - Wagoneer, > > > Jeepster Commando and Willys Jeep truck. And several other trucks. > > > > Yes, and some so-called liberals claim to own guns, good guns though, > > none of those evil "black guns" that must be limited by the nanny state. > > > > > Do you want me telling you how you feel? No? Then perhaps you might > > > not try telling people like me how we feel about things. > > > > > > I bet you'd find a LOT of environmentalists volunteering to help fight > > > wild fires. I hear a some people complaining that environmetalists are > > > doing things and then some complaining that they don't. We are not evil > > > incarnate. We do not want to take you trucks or your guns. > > > > Actually, that's exactly what sociofascists want to do, they'll take > > alot more than just our trucks and guns if they have their way. > > Sociofascists (ne: liberals) have been responsible for the deaths of > > over 170 million people, not including wars, during the 20th century alone. > > > > > Fossil fuels are a bad fuel largely because they are horriby > > > inefficient. We will have to migrate off of them. If we do it soon > > > enough there will still be some for us who like old and antique trucks > > > and cars to use the fuel for recreation. > > > > There are proven reserves of fossil fuels for the next 500 years, and > > it is expected that there are unproven reserves of at least three times > > that amount. The market is the only reliable method of determining what > > fuel is to be used by people. Sociofascists, gaining control of the > > reins of power, will never succeed in doing more than impoverishing > > mankind at best, and killing millions at worst. > > > > We need to repeal all of the laws aimed at using government guns to > > force social change on mankind. Market forces are the ONLY method of > > peacefully achieving changes of this type, there are no exceptions. > > > > Pat Hines > > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ============================================================================ ===== > "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook > "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall > ============================================================================ ===== > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1409 **************************