From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Aug 10 08:22:46 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, August 10 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1424 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Rubber floor carpet fsj: headliner solutions Re: fsj: Re: Liberty Looks fsj: minnesoda j10 fsj: Re:Brake Conversion Re: fsj: J10 carpet, it does exist Re: fsj: Re: Rubber floor carpet Re: fsj: headliner solutions Re: fsj: J10 carpet, it does exist fsj: Starter Difficulties fsj: Re: I finally got a FSJ fsj: yet another tailgate problem fsj: Winky Blinky Lights fsj: Re: minnesoda j10 fsj: RE: Re: I finally got a FSJ Re: fsj: yet another tailgate problem FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:22:40 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: Rubber floor carpet Walt: Are you sure you want rubber or vinyl floor covering? I think JC Whitney sells these for FSJ's. However, I've never seen any pickups or vehicles in general using vinyl floor covering that didn't rust out the floor prematurely. I think it has something to do with trapping moisture between the mat and the floor. You may want to reconsider and go with a coating instead, that is if you don't mind a little noise! :) - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "allyoop" To: "Jeep Digest" Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:18 PM Subject: fsj: Rubber floor carpet > Anybody know a source for rubber carpet for my 1973 J-10? I want full > coverage material that's molded, not just the mats. I suppose Wagoneer > stuff would fit. > > Thanks, > > Walt Greenwood ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:33:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Loxtercamp Subject: fsj: headliner solutions > Do you know a source for the ceiling liner? The fabric on mine is > sagging down on my head -- very annoying. :-( When I had to redo my headliner in my old '79 wag, I talked to a auto upholstery shop. He mentioned that the vinyl that was original was way too heavy...never should have been used. I bought some .15-.25" foam with black cloth, then bought some 1/8" hardboard. 2 4x8 sheets...one for the front, one for the back...just fits. I used the old cardboard as a pattern and cut it out. (make the back slightly wider than the cardboard) For the bends in the headliner, I cut the hardboard 1/2 the way through with a circular saw, then bent it...worked pretty well. I used the 3M super trim adhesive (get the good stuff), sprayed both sides...hardboard and foam, then mated them and put some good weight on them (like a sheet of plywood with weight on that)...left them sit over night. Leave about 1" extra fabric around the edges...trim to fit later. Install. They really fit nicely. I put the original plastic seperator back in as well as the original visors...looked great. The other option is to take a stapler, open it up and just start wacking at the vinyl...stapling it to the cardboard. I did that originally...worked for a long time and was a good conversation piece. It was really cool when I put some foil stars (you know, the kind your gradeschool teacher put on your perfect papers) on the original stapled baby blue vinyl headliner. Greg Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 16:42:59 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Liberty Looks I'll bet it rode really smooth too.........We didn't have no fancy smancy airbags and seatbelts in those days! When you crashed into a tree, you impaled yourself on the broken steering wheel or went right through the windshield got diced up and then got spattered all over the place like a grasshopper playing chicken with a 747 on takeoff! That's the way it was, and we liked it! - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexander Wall" To: "Vince Orr" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 4:15 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Liberty Looks > Wow - 40 years before me! Looks like a VW bug turned limo! > > > --- Vince Orr wrote: > > Wow. Made about 26 years before I was born! It even looks like a Jeep with > > the vertical grill and the close set headlights! You got a pretty > > perceptive eye, 'cause it sure does look kinda like the Liberty. > > Thanks for the link. > > --Vince > > '81 Wagoneer > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Landon Tesar" > > To: "Vince Orr" > > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 9:03 AM > > Subject: Re: Liberty Looks > > > > > > > Found this site quickly on the net. There's probably better pictures out > > > there.... > > > > > > http://www.clearlight.com/~brawicz/chrysler-airflow/ > > > > > > - Landon > > > > > > Vince Orr wrote: > > > > > > > What? What's a Chyrsler Airflow? That must have been before my time. > > > > Was it 4WD? Pictures? > > > > --Vince > > > > '81 Wagoneer > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Landon Tesar" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2001 9:55 AM > > > > Subject: fsj: Liberty Looks > > > > > > > > > > Subject: fsj: Re: Liberty heritage showing? > > > > > > > > > > > > Very good observation. It does look like a Mercedes. Seems to me > > that > > > > lots > > > > > > of folks are responding to this "scaled down" type of 4wd vehicle. > > > > > > > > > > > I think it looks like a warmed over Chrysler Airflow. And they > > thought > > > > > we'd forget! > > > > > > > > > > - L > > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ============================================================================ ===== > "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook > "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall > ============================================================================ ===== > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 14:33:17 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: minnesoda j10 go lynn... noticed you're bidding on: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594150255&tc=photo6286 hope you get it. :) looks like someone put Grand Wagoneer leather seats in it... which means you can't get behind them easily or push 'em all the way back, HOWEVER, you can take the leather part off the power base and add on a toyoder or nssn seat, or any other type with a flat bottom. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 17:53:24 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re:Brake Conversion Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 10:54:34 -0700 From: "Terrill, Patrick" >My '70 Wagoneer still has drums all the way around and I've finally decided >to do something about it. The problem is I can't afford to swap out the >front axle and I can't seem to find any conversion info for a 5-lug closed >knuckle Dana 27AF axle. I've found all kinds of info for the later (74 and >up), but nothing for mine. > >Any ideas Actually, there are a number of disc conversions for CJ Dana 30s that only involve parts from the knuckle out. Some are for open knuckle axles and some are for closed knuckle axles. You can even put open outer knuckles on a closed knuckle axle -- so I've read. Since CJs or the same bolt pattern as your Wag, that won't be an issue. If you start cruising the CJ web sites you'll find relevant information -- some is extremely detailed. I'll probably have time to locate my info this weekend if need be, but it's a couple of years old. The only drawback might be that the Wag would be too heavy for the CJ brakes, but I'd bet CJ discs would stop better than Wag drums. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:03:39 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: J10 carpet, it does exist I would agree.. I tried http://www.carparts.com but only got a limited amount of parts for my J-10 Honcho ( 80 ) I am still looking though R.J. Nikola Vouk wrote: > > If you don't want to do it yourself, you can have your local auto > interior/exterior shop do it for you. I had the headliner in my '87 > GW replaced for ~$150.00 and it was done in a day. I would think that > a j10 truck would be cheaper. > nik > > At 12:33 PM -0700 8/9/01, john wrote: > >On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Alexander Wall wrote: > > > >>--> Do you know a source for the ceiling liner? The fabric on > >>mine is sagging down on my head - > >>-->very annoying. > >>-->:-) > > > >no, but I need one too. I took my headliner down and painted it > >with fake rock... > >it sorta works... :) > > > >need a headliner for my Jtruck, but so does the king of the web > >surfers, HEY RJ, > >whaddya say? got us a link? :) > > > >john > > > >>--> > >>-->> We do have the carpet available for your 83 J10 Pickup for $132.95 plus > >>-->> $14.00 shipping and handling. The carpets are made up in our > >>Custom Comfort > >>-->> cutpile material, and can be made in almost any color. Please > >>reply if you > >>-->> are interested, or call us at 888-844-3393. > >>-->> Thank You > >>-->> Rob Conlon > >>-->> http://www.1aauto.com > > ---- > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:15:41 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rubber floor carpet I wonder if using a paint on liner like Herculiner would work? I know you would have to do some prep work.. but.. R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Huntsville Al. Vince Orr wrote: > > Walt: > Are you sure you want rubber or vinyl floor covering? I think JC Whitney > sells these for FSJ's. However, I've never seen any pickups or vehicles in > general using vinyl floor covering that didn't rust out the floor > prematurely. I think it has something to do with trapping moisture between > the mat and the floor. You may want to reconsider and go with a coating > instead, that is if you don't mind a little noise! :) > --Vince > '81 Wagoneer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "allyoop" > To: "Jeep Digest" > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 3:18 PM > Subject: fsj: Rubber floor carpet > > > Anybody know a source for rubber carpet for my 1973 J-10? I want full > > coverage material that's molded, not just the mats. I suppose Wagoneer > > stuff would fit. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Walt Greenwood ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 17:21:17 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: headliner solutions That's what I did to my old 79 Waggy.. ( the staples..:) Now in my 80 J-10 Honcho, I don't have one, except that it has a sound proofing type of thin carpeting glued to the ceiling.. so far it does well that way.. insulates good too! John, what is that stuff called anyway? R.J. Greg Loxtercamp wrote: > > > Do you know a source for the ceiling liner? The fabric on mine is > > sagging down on my head -- very annoying. :-( > > When I had to redo my headliner in my old '79 wag, I talked to a auto > upholstery shop. He mentioned that the vinyl that was original was way too > heavy...never should have been used. I bought some .15-.25" foam with black > cloth, then bought some 1/8" hardboard. 2 4x8 sheets...one for the front, one > for the back...just fits. I used the old cardboard as a pattern and cut it > out. (make the back slightly wider than the cardboard) For the bends in the > headliner, I cut the hardboard 1/2 the way through with a circular saw, then > bent it...worked pretty well. I used the 3M super trim adhesive (get the good > stuff), sprayed both sides...hardboard and foam, then mated them and put some > good weight on them (like a sheet of plywood with weight on that)...left them > sit over night. Leave about 1" extra fabric around the edges...trim to fit > later. Install. They really fit nicely. I put the original plastic seperator > back in as well as the original visors...looked great. > > The other option is to take a stapler, open it up and just start wacking at the > vinyl...stapling it to the cardboard. I did that originally...worked for a > long time and was a good conversation piece. It was really cool when I put > some foil stars (you know, the kind your gradeschool teacher put on your > perfect papers) on the original stapled baby blue vinyl headliner. > > Greg > Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger > http://phonecard.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 18:55:31 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: J10 carpet, it does exist That's a tough one.. Ask a interior and upholstery place.. they more then likely can do it, for not too much, and a professional job as well. I'll keep looking though... R.J. john wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Aug 2001, Alexander Wall wrote: > > >--> Do you know a source for the ceiling liner? The fabric on mine is sagging down on my head - > >-->very annoying. > >-->:-) > > no, but I need one too. I took my headliner down and painted it with fake rock... > it sorta works... :) > > need a headliner for my Jtruck, but so does the king of the web surfers, HEY RJ, > whaddya say? got us a link? :) > > john > > >--> > >-->> We do have the carpet available for your 83 J10 Pickup for $132.95 plus > >-->> $14.00 shipping and handling. The carpets are made up in our Custom Comfort > >-->> cutpile material, and can be made in almost any color. Please reply if you > >-->> are interested, or call us at 888-844-3393. > >-->> Thank You > >-->> Rob Conlon > >-->> http://www.1aauto.com > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:45:09 -0500 From: "Hello" Subject: fsj: Starter Difficulties Hi All, Sorry for the cross-post, but I want to get as broad a range of opinions as possible. Tank's starter want to rest. After driving for a while (5 - 10 minutes) the starter drags so bad that Tank sometimes will not start without a jump. If he rests for 30 minutes or so, he starts fine. The battery is NOT the problem. I seem to remember someone on the list mentioning that our old beasts get "tighter" when they are warm. I have had a friend of mine (GOOD shady tree mechanic) tell me that most motors get looser when they are warm and that the symptoms I am seeing are indicative of the starter going bad (says they drag when warm). I put the topic up for discussion. Thanks. Roy '82 FSJ Cherokee Laredo 'Tank' '79 Toronado 'Old Whitey' '79 Cadilac Coupe DeVille {Son's graduation present} '83 Buick Regal Estate Wagon 'Brick' {Recently deceased} ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 19:29:00 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: I finally got a FSJ At 06:58 PM 8/9/01 -0700, Sean Daw wrote: >As of 8:00 central time I'm the proud owner of a 79 >Cherokee Cheif 4X4. So I guess let the fun begin! Now >I gues I can partisipate in the conversations first >hand. Just thought I would let ya'll know. >Sean >79 Cherokee congrats! john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 20:47:40 -0700 From: "D. Andrew Neville" Subject: fsj: yet another tailgate problem Greetings from Bothell, WA. I'm new to this list, and mostly lurked around one of the old lists, back before I had to close the coffin on my dear 1976 Wag. (sniff, sniff.) But now I'm back in business, with my new girl that I've had for almost a year now. It's 8:30 pm and I'm just getting in from taking the tailgate apart on my 1986 Grand Wag. (not for fun, the window was stuck up) Thanks to Michael Baxter and others for providing guidelines for doing this, no injuries as of yet. I am down to checking the rear switch and realizing that whether I bypass the safety switch or use it, the motor only works when keyed in one direction (not sure which). Front switch don't work at all...yet. What to do? Come to think of it, I have another question regarding my carb/manifold. The current carb is a parts store carb that the DSPO put on himself. I had it checked out and my guy recommend replacing it, which is fine since I pulled a brand new Edelbrock carb and manifold off of my '76 before putting her out to pasture. I'm wondering if these will switch free and clear. The '76 was a 401 and the '86 is a 360, both V8. The carb is 600cfm, square flange electric choke (part #1406) and the manifold is the Performer AMC non-EGR (#2131) (which should fit both engines, I think) Main question is the EGR thing. This new '86 has all sorts of emissions stuff on it, will this cause me any problems or can I get away with it? I'd appreciate fairly explicit instructions, as I am fairly capable with woodworking tools but definitely a novice when I don my auto mechanic hat, and electricity seems to be my nemesis. Thanks for the help. Andy Neville 1986 Grand Wag Bothell, WA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 06:37:51 -0400 From: "B. C." Subject: fsj: Winky Blinky Lights Greetings Mike! Well your GW has done another thing to write in the books, of things no other GW has ever done before. They all have their own personality just to keep us guessing. Having spend a lot of time digesting the electrical schematics for the 89 USS GW maybe I can give you some places to look. First you have to determine if you have factory trailer tow wiring. To do this slither under the back bumper of your rig, and in the very center you will possibly find a rectangular box. This is the factory lighting relay center. It will have a large bundle of wires going to it, possibly one bundle from each side. It you have the two bundles of wires, you should be able to disconnect each bundle from the relay box, and connect them directly together. Now check your brake petal. Dose your problem still exist? Then you need to check under the dash for your problem. It could be a short in the under dash wiring that connected to the LED dimmer relay. There is a special rely that connects to those LED readouts. The relay energizes when the lights are switched on. Now if this relay's wiring has shorted to the brake petal stop light switch or cruise control release switch, you have to fix the short. Pulling this relay should prove the theory; but you have to find the short. This brings us to the next question. Does your cruise control work? There are several fuses for the cruise system; and if one of them is blown this could lead to a backfeed in the electric circuit. Does the truck have a control for trailer brakes. They are probably some sort of after market deal. This means you could have some funky splices under your dash that have failed. Refer to posts regarding DSPO's. (Deranged Stupid Previous Owners) Most FSJ's have had their share. Or maybe you know that you have a trailer lighting wire harness, but you can not find the big box above the rear bumper. Then that means your trailer lighting wiring was put in by a DSPO. They may have mounted an after market relay under the rear end, or in one of those rear areas behind the speakers in the back carpet panels. Check for broken or damaged wiring where it may connect into your existing GW wiring. We have reached the bottom of the list of ideas, and from my experience the number one thing I look for first with an FSJ electric problem. Find the bare wires that have lost their insulation, and now are shorting out. You will probably find these in that large wire snake under the back end of the GW. I have solved several lighting problems on the USS GW by splicing g wires in this area. - -- Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post END TRANSMISSION.................................... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:12:17 -0500 From: "TLynn" Subject: fsj: Re: minnesoda j10 I couldn't help it! If I don't get outbid I will end up paying the seller to deliver it and then another FSJ project will be sitting in ...over at.....well I'll find a place---somewhere! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "full size jeep list" Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 16:33 Subject: fsj: minnesoda j10 go lynn... noticed you're bidding on: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=594150255& tc=photo6286 hope you get it. :) looks like someone put Grand Wagoneer leather seats in it... which means you can't get behind them easily or push 'em all the way back, HOWEVER, you can take the leather part off the power base and add on a toyoder or nssn seat, or any other type with a flat bottom. :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:52:26 -0400 From: George Milam Subject: fsj: RE: Re: I finally got a FSJ Welcome John! Glad to have you in the family. George Milam '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" Vermont - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 10:29 PM To: Sean Daw Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: fsj: Re: I finally got a FSJ At 06:58 PM 8/9/01 -0700, Sean Daw wrote: >As of 8:00 central time I'm the proud owner of a 79 >Cherokee Cheif 4X4. So I guess let the fun begin! Now >I gues I can partisipate in the conversations first >hand. Just thought I would let ya'll know. >Sean >79 Cherokee congrats! john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ----------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:04:21 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: yet another tailgate problem "D. Andrew Neville" said: {- It's 8:30 pm and I'm just getting in from taking the tailgate apart on my {- 1986 Grand Wag. (not for fun, the window was stuck up) Thanks to Michael {- Baxter and others for providing guidelines for doing this, no injuries as of {- yet. I am down to checking the rear switch and realizing that whether I {- bypass the safety switch or use it, the motor only works when keyed in one {- direction (not sure which). Front switch don't work at all...yet. What to {- do? Hmmm, want to forward those directions? Haven't had time yet, but I'll eventually have to rip apart the gate on my '74 -- same problem; it won't go down. I'm guessing there could be multiple problems with it; could be a bad motor (I have a replacement), the gears look pretty rusty (I just took a quick peek inside), the side lever could be problematic, and there could be a wiring problem. (I'll probably have to start by checking to see if it has power at all, and maybe hooking up my jumper to the motor directly to make sure it gets power.) {- Come to think of it, I have another question regarding my carb/manifold. The {- current carb is a parts store carb that the DSPO put on himself. I had it {- checked out and my guy recommend replacing it, which is fine since I pulled {- a brand new Edelbrock carb and manifold off of my '76 before putting her out {- to pasture. I'm wondering if these will switch free and clear. The '76 was a {- 401 and the '86 is a 360, both V8. The carb is 600cfm, square flange {- electric choke (part #1406) and the manifold is the Performer AMC non-EGR {- (#2131) (which should fit both engines, I think) Main question is the EGR {- thing. This new '86 has all sorts of emissions stuff on it, will this cause {- me any problems or can I get away with it? Yes, you can disconnect it, but I can't tell you the specifics. I've had FSJs in the past that had them disconnected -- often the EGR would stop working, and they'd disconnect it but leave the parts in so it appeared it was still installed and so they could fix it later if they had to. Not only will it probably not hurt your performance (but probably won't help it that much, either), it might not be doing much good for emissions anyway, depending on age and condition. Conversely, I'll bet you could also take an EGR manifold and put it on a non-EGR engine and just plug the necessary holes and vacuum connections. The Performer EGR manifold was about $250, compared to about $150 for the non-EGR version, so you usually don't run into this because they don't pay extra for an EGR manifold unless they're using it. I got the EGR Performer manifold for my '88 and have everything hooked up, but I don't plan to get any EGR stuff for my '74 when I rebuild it (and change the manifold/carb) -- it doesn't have any of the stuff on it. {- I'd appreciate fairly explicit instructions, as I am fairly capable with {- woodworking tools but definitely a novice when I don my auto mechanic hat, {- and electricity seems to be my nemesis. Thanks for the help. Heh, _lack_ of electricity is often my nemesis. I think it's just scared of me. :) (I currently use a battery cut-off on my '74 to keep the battery from draining while it's off. But it must be a short of some sort; it didn't do it all the time, which makes it a hard thing to track down -- and again, I don't have the time since I have too many other projects. Hasn't had a battery problem once since I started using the cut-off, and it's been my daily driver for several weeks while I do various fuel-injected things with the '88.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If we're gonna beat the crap out of each other, it should at least be over a chick. -- Dawson Leary - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1424 **************************