From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Aug 29 01:09:08 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, August 29 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1439 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: DVD vs. CD burner (OT) Re: fsj: Dead As A Door Knob fsj: RE: Dead As A Door Knob fsj: Re: DVD vs. CD burner (OT) fsj: Re: Dead As A Door Knob Re: [fsj: Dead As A Door Knob] Re: fsj: Re: DVD vs. CD burner (OT) fsj: administrivia: server cut over fsj: administrivia: krusty-users list fsj: Re: FSJ list. and jeep.. Re: fsj: RE: Dead As A Door Knob FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:58:53 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: DVD vs. CD burner (OT) (Sending this to John directly, too, in case he's in digest mode.) john said: {- BTW, totally off topic, but I'm looking at getting a CD burner and was {- wondering {- if it's worth getting a DVD burner, will they burn CDs as well? I was think {- ing {- of getting a USB cd burner so I can move it around between systems. I'd get the DVD burner if you have the extra money. You'd have to look at individual ones to be sure, but the Pioneer DVR-103, a.k.a. the Superdrive in the Power Macs, does everything but DVD-RAM. (It writes DVD-R, CD-RW, CD-R, and reads all of those formats.) >From http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html : SuperDrive (combination DVD-R/CD-RW drive; writes DVD-R discs at 2x, reads DVDs at 4x, writes CD-R discs at 8x, writes CD-RW discs at 4x, reads CDs at 24x) I think they usually run about $1K retail, though I saw one on eBay whose high bid only went up to $455 -- but didn't meet the reserve. (Most on eBay have been going for more like $700-800, IIRC.) My dad just got one in a Power Mac (dual 800MHz G4s and 1.5GB/RAM), but I haven't had a chance to play with it yet -- and I don't have anything yet to take analog input and convert to a DV stream over Firewire. (Yes, I know my options. And yes, I know I should be able to take standard old QuickTime MooVs and use them, obviously only at their original quality if I don't re-grab them, but haven't had time to try even that.) If you get a CD burner only, you should be able to get a 16x burner that also does CD-RW for a lot cheaper, but haven't been keeping up on the prices. I think Panasonic (whatever their parent company is) and probably Yamaha and a few others are good. I wouldn't have tried the Sony you mentioned (Sony CRTs are great, but for other stuff... not so much), and I personally am also biased against HPs. But I will admit I haven't heard of any problems with the ones they got over the last year or two here at work, mostly on factory systems. ObJeepContent: Still trying to fix the '74. Adjusting the points didn't seem to help. Going to try replacing the spark plugs (wires look good) and, if I can manage it, drain the tank (eeewww, 20gal worth) and try some fresh stuff, but I'm afraid at this point I'll have to have it towed in to be worked on. At least now I'm at home and know where to take it; won't get screwed for time or money nearly as much as I did in Denverland. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MOOF! - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:14:33 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Dead As A Door Knob "B. C." said: {- So how would somebody go about connecting their shop meter to determine {- where a drain would be present with the truck turned off? What {- procedure would best identify the source of the drain? I don't know, but let me know if you find out; my '74 has the exact same problem. Trouble is, it seems to be a real short in the sense that it isn't consistent. I once drove for two weeks without any problems, then one day it had died overnight. Went through several crappy Champion batteries (hopefully the latest is better because they're now made by Exide -- and at least they were all replaced on warranty). Anyway, since I don't have time to mess with it yet, I put in a battery cut-off on one of the posts -- $13 or so at Jocko's. Hasn't died since. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, so what's the speed of dark? - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 07:55:33 -0700 From: "Terrill, Patrick" Subject: fsj: RE: Dead As A Door Knob As far as checking for the drain on them thar crystals; If you have access to a good amp meter, connect it to the positive cable near the battery. This should show the drain on the battery. If the drain is very small (< 2-3 amps), try this. Disconnect the battery positive and place a coil of wire between the battery positive terminal and the positive battery cable. Then use an inductive amp meter around the coil. The coil multiplies the amp reading on the gauge. For example; if your coil has 10 loops and you have a 2 amp drain, the meters pickup sees and displays 20 amps of current flow. Once you have a good reading of the drain, then it's simply a matter of diconnecting fuses until the drain goes away. But don't forget about the starter and alternator, they're a common source of weird drains. Patrick '70 Wagoneer - -----Original Message----- From: B. C. [mailto:ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:48 AM To: PHOENIX FSJ LIST; JOHN MEISTER Subject: fsj: Dead As A Door Knob Greetings To The FSJ World! Lady Susan went out to go to work yesterday morning and found that the di-lithium crystals, (battery) were totally depleted of energy. Now this has been going on for some time. I just have not seen it happen so quickly. Usually if the 89 USS GW has sat for a week, before those darned di-lithium crystals have lost all energy. This time it happened just by the USS GW sitting for the week-end. I thought originally that it might be related to the fact that the rear key switch for the tailgate window had been shorting, since the dash switch will only work if the key switch is jiggled into the correct position. So I concluded that this short in the key switch could be draining the battery. So I pulled the circuit breaker under the dash that controls the electric rear window. I found a bonus that this switch also controls the power door locks, rear window defogger, and power seats. Well after the USS GW had sat for a week with this fuse disconnected I went to start it. Those di-lithium crystals were dead again. So my quest took me to check for reading lamps that might have been left on, or a glove box, or under hood light that stayed on constantly. All of these things checked OK, and functioning within established parameters. Granted there are a lot of power accessories on this vessel. A hardwired cell phone, Jacobs ignition, electric fuel pump, IPF lights, and IPF Lighting relay; but I compensated for all of them with the custom build 145 amp alternator with small flywheel, and low speed cut in regulator. Heck I even have completely replaced the entire under hood wire harness. Yet that power drain is still there. So how would somebody go about connecting their shop meter to determine where a drain would be present with the truck turned off? What procedure would best identify the source of the drain? Until The Next Dimension, Admiral "Coluch." Starfleet Headquarters Ohio Post END TRANSMISSION.................................... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:19:09 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: DVD vs. CD burner (OT) On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, Dan Black wrote: >-->(Sending this to John directly, too, in case he's in digest mode.) he is. has been. will be. :) >-->john said: >-->{- BTW, totally off topic, but I'm looking at getting a CD burner and was >-->{- if it's worth getting a DVD burner, will they burn CDs as well? I was think >-->{- of getting a USB cd burner so I can move it around between systems. >--> >-->I'd get the DVD burner if you have the extra money. You'd have to look >-->at individual ones to be sure, but the Pioneer DVR-103, a.k.a. the >-->Superdrive in the Power Macs, does everything but DVD-RAM. (It writes >-->DVD-R, CD-RW, CD-R, and reads all of those formats.) I might get a mac later this year to write my FSJ book... but until then it needs to be pc useable. >-->>From http://www.apple.com/powermac/specs.html : >--> SuperDrive (combination DVD-R/CD-RW drive; writes DVD-R discs at 2x, >--> reads DVDs at 4x, writes CD-R discs at 8x, writes CD-RW discs at 4x, >--> reads CDs at 24x) >--> >-->I think they usually run about $1K retail, though I saw one on eBay >-->whose high bid only went up to $455 -- but didn't meet the reserve. >-->(Most on eBay have been going for more like $700-800, IIRC.) yikes. I'm looking at less than 2 c-notes. maybe 1 cnote... I'm backing up pictures not producing commercial software. :) >-->If you get a CD burner only, you should be able to get a 16x burner that >-->also does CD-RW for a lot cheaper, but haven't been keeping up on the >-->prices. I think Panasonic (whatever their parent company is) and Matasushi or matashahi or something like that matusi??? biggest electronics company in the world... ;) >-->probably Yamaha and a few others are good. I wouldn't have tried the >-->Sony you mentioned (Sony CRTs are great, but for other stuff... not so yep, but talking to the support line I got the impression their cd burners don't hold up very well... :) >-->much), and I personally am also biased against HPs. But I will admit I hey... HP stuff is usually pretty good... mostly... at least the UNIX grade stuff I work with... pc stuff is a bit cheesey though... ;) >-->haven't heard of any problems with the ones they got over the last year >-->or two here at work, mostly on factory systems. >--> >-->ObJeepContent: Still trying to fix the '74. Adjusting the points didn't >-->seem to help. Going to try replacing the spark plugs (wires look good) >-->and, if I can manage it, drain the tank (eeewww, 20gal worth) and try >-->some fresh stuff, but I'm afraid at this point I'll have to have it >-->towed in to be worked on. At least now I'm at home and know where to >-->take it; won't get screwed for time or money nearly as much as I did in >-->Denverland. mandatory FSJ content: heading down to the Rose City tomorrow to pick up some springs. my son's old J3000 might find it's way back home... jay may have blown the tranny, lost his job and needs money to fix his rabbit. :( not sure if my son can afford to buy it right now or not, would be nice to get it back, as rough as it is, it's still a nice looking old truck.... I'm going to look at an '84 J20 tomorrow as well, not sure if I can afford it, but going to look anyway. ;) SuperDawg is still in pieces and we're praying for curtis and family that either he won't have to move right away or that he'll find a nice place they can afford. thanx for the info Dan. Still like to know more about the lower cost USB style CDRW drives... could save some bucks and get more power with an internal drive, but USB is pretty slick... plug and pray... usually works... ;) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Dead As A Door Knob On Tue, 28 Aug 2001, B. C. wrote: >-->Greetings To The FSJ World! >--> >-->Lady Susan went out to go to work yesterday morning and found that the >-->di-lithium crystals, (battery) were totally depleted of energy. Now >-->this has been going on for some time. I just have not seen it happen so >-->quickly. Usually if the 89 USS GW has sat for a week, before those >-->darned di-lithium crystals have lost all energy. This time it happened >-->just by the USS GW sitting for the week-end. >--> have your alternator checked. the internals could be the source of the leak. Simple test, disconnect the alternator, the main red cable, careful to protect it against shorts to the body, and the plug in connector. let it sit and see what happens. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 28 Aug 2001 11:56:26 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Dead As A Door Knob] "B. C." wrote: > So how would somebody go about connecting their shop meter to determine > where a drain would be present with the truck turned off? What > procedure would best identify the source of the drain? I disconnected the battery from the positive terminal on the starter solenoid, and then tested resistance between the terminal and ground. Then I took off wires one by one until I had it isolated to a single wire, then I attempted to trace that wire back to the source of the short. I actually didn't succeed in tracing the wire back--I ended up pulling circuit breakers and fuses one by one until I isolated the short. You might want to eliminate some obvious power drains first. I know the radio draws a tiny bit of power with the vehicle off. That may be all, but I'm not sure. You also ought to have the battery tested in case it just can't hold a charge anymore. It'd be an easy way to eliminate this as a cause. Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:50:19 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: DVD vs. CD burner (OT) john said: {- I might get a mac later this year to write my FSJ book... but until then it {- needs to be pc useable. The Pioneer DVR-103 is. {- >-->I think they usually run about $1K retail, though I saw one on eBay {- >-->whose high bid only went up to $455 -- but didn't meet the reserve. {- >-->(Most on eBay have been going for more like $700-800, IIRC.) {- yikes. I'm looking at less than 2 c-notes. maybe 1 cnote... I'm backing {- up pictures not producing commercial software. :) Actually, I looked a very little bit after sending the email, and it looks like a lot of places online sell them brand new for $800 or so. So I wouldn't pay more than $500-600 on eBay, and it'd have to be in mint condition. {- >-->If you get a CD burner only, you should be able to get a 16x burner that {- >-->also does CD-RW for a lot cheaper, but haven't been keeping up on the {- >-->prices. I think Panasonic (whatever their parent company is) and {- Matasushi or matashahi or something like that matusi??? biggest electronics {- company in the world... ;) Ah, go to www.panasonic.com and look at the bottom: Matsushita. {- >-->probably Yamaha and a few others are good. I wouldn't have tried the {- >-->Sony you mentioned (Sony CRTs are great, but for other stuff... not so {- yep, but talking to the support line I got the impression their cd burners {- don't hold up very well... :) Saw in an AV magazine (again, after sending the email) that there are now 24x10x40 drives out. Checked pricewatch, which may or may not have some of the better prices, and there were a couple that had those for as low as $138 supposedly (for Sanyo, which may be ok, and "Lite On", which I've never heard of), but the better brands started around $212. I'd pay the extra and get the TDK or Plextor -- I like TDK. OTOH, I haven't been able to confirm yet that the TDK or Plextor are supported by Toast for the Mac (though they probably will be one way or another). And I see Sanyo (and a few generic brands) has a Firewire one. It'd basically be $280 w.s/h, but that's external, and Firewire's extremely easy to use, and it says it includes Toast for the Mac, which implies it will already work with that. (I'd still double-check to be sure.) So I guess I'd look around to see if anybody had that drive cheaper. If you ever plan to use it with multiple computers, esp. a Mac, the external Firewire setup will make it much, much easier. {- hey... HP stuff is usually pretty good... mostly... at least the UNIX grade {- stuff I work with... pc stuff is a bit cheesey though... ;) Actually had a lot of bad experiences with the PCs, printers, and unix stuff (servers, X-stations, etc.), but the PCs seem to have gotten better over the years, the printers also finally seem to live up to their promises, and the admins for the unix systems were idiots. So my bias has been tempered a bit over the years; I'd just treat them cautiously at this point. Their CD burners are probably produced by someone else anyway. {- thanx for the info Dan. Still like to know more about the lower {- cost USB style CDRW drives... could save some bucks and get more {- power with an internal drive, {- but USB is pretty slick... plug and pray... usually works... ;) The only USB CD-R(W) drive pricewatch lists (which, again, isn't necessarily the end of the matter) is Iomega. I'm _extremely_ and actively biased against Iomega. I'd take HP over them any day. And they want over $300 according to pricewatch. So you wouldn't be able to get the fastest for the price range you wanted. I also would recommend against USB for a burner. I have heard very consistently that the USB burners suck, or at least while being used as USB. My dad has a USB/Firewire one, and when he tried it on USB, he had all sorts of problems, but as soon as he switched it to Firewire, everything worked great. Other friends I've talked to myself as well as things I've read have virtually always said if it works at all, it's very slow; the USB bus honestly isn't designed to handle that much data. (12Mbps == 12/8MBps == 1.5MB/sec. 1.5MBps / 172KBps ~= 10x. So USB most likely can't handle more than 10x burning, and that's the theoretical max; RealLife results will be lower. I think you'll be lucky to get 6x out of it, and that's if it even talks to the computer correctly in the first place.) ObJeepContent: On the "dead as a door knob" thread, I mentioned my '74 had the same battery-drain problem (the same symptoms). People have mentioned the alternator. On mine, I did have the alternator from an '85 redone (it should be able to put out more power than it can cool itself for more than a few minutes) -- built-in voltage regulator and everything. Still had the same problem. Can't even really take it to a shop to track down because it's inconsistent. They test it, everything checks out, and it might for a couple weeks (as in the example I mentioned). Then it just takes one night to die. So yes, it could be the alternator (and the old ones were fairly weak), but not in my case. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And if I can't see what's passing me Nothing can touch me, and I'll fly -- The Bangles - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 15:39:55 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: server cut over the new krusty is going to go into place, at about 10am ET tomorrow morning, with downtime of about an hour. i think i've got everything covered, but if anyone observes any strangeness after the new system comes up, drop me a line at both rwelty-at-krusty-motorsports.com rwelty-at-suespammers.org for those who have accounts on krusty (there are a few), please contact me at the rwelty-at-suespammers.org email address, or at 518-573-7592 for your new password -- we will be going to entirely new passwords on the new server. richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 17:59:41 -0400 From: Richard Welty Subject: fsj: administrivia: krusty-users list as an aside, for those interested in the ongoing saga of krusty operations, i've brought the krusty-users list back into being. it is mostly focused on items of interest to those actually using the server for various projects, but others are welcome to join: send to majordomo-at-krusty-motorsports.com a message containing the following in the body: subscribe krusty-users richard ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 19:36:55 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: FSJ list. and jeep.. At 06:55 PM 8/28/01 -0700, Smellow Jay wrote: >jsmellow-at-mindspring.com > >Made it to the house. Looks like its leaking out of the joint between the >Dana 20 and the T85. Also... Some truck part joint south of Orting has a 67 >TH400 out of a wagoneer on the shelf for 300 +core... and he'll take the T85 >as the swap. > >Only concern is whether the Dana 20 will mate up.. and what to do if it >doesnt. >Jay worse case scenario is you'll have to swap for another Dana20 that does, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a straight swap. The guy at the yard should know... is the TH400 for the 327? Will he include the flex plate and torque converter and linkages for the shifter, guess you could use a floor shifter... I'd go that way, make the truck so much easier to drive in traffic. :) john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 21:57:27 -0700 From: Paul & Megan Kershner Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Dead As A Door Knob I don't understand why it is so hard to diagnose the USS GW! Just get out the tri-corder and check the crystals easily and completely... pk "Terrill, Patrick" wrote: > > As far as checking for the drain on them thar crystals; If you have access > to a good amp meter, connect it to the positive cable near the battery. > This should show the drain on the battery. If the drain is very small (< > 2-3 amps), try this. Disconnect the battery positive and place a coil of > wire between the battery positive terminal and the positive battery cable. > Then use an inductive amp meter around the coil. The coil multiplies the > amp reading on the gauge. For example; if your coil has 10 loops and you > have a 2 amp drain, the meters pickup sees and displays 20 amps of current > flow. > > Once you have a good reading of the drain, then it's simply a matter of > diconnecting fuses until the drain goes away. But don't forget about the > starter and alternator, they're a common source of weird drains. > > Patrick > '70 Wagoneer > > -----Original Message----- > From: B. C. [mailto:ABCvoice-at-worldnet.att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2001 2:48 AM > To: PHOENIX FSJ LIST; JOHN MEISTER > Subject: fsj: Dead As A Door Knob > > Greetings To The FSJ World! > > Lady Susan went out to go to work yesterday morning and found that the > di-lithium crystals, (battery) were totally depleted of energy. Now > this has been going on for some time. I just have not seen it happen so > quickly. Usually if the 89 USS GW has sat for a week, before those > darned di-lithium crystals have lost all energy. This time it happened > just by the USS GW sitting for the week-end. > > I thought originally that it might be related to the fact that the rear > key switch for the tailgate window had been shorting, since the dash > switch will only work if the key switch is jiggled into the correct > position. So I concluded that this short in the key switch could be > draining the battery. So I pulled the circuit breaker under the dash > that controls the electric rear window. I found a bonus that this > switch also controls the power door locks, rear window defogger, and > power seats. Well after the USS GW had sat for a week with this fuse > disconnected I went to start it. Those di-lithium crystals were dead > again. > > So my quest took me to check for reading lamps that might have been left > on, or a glove box, or under hood light that stayed on constantly. All > of these things checked OK, and functioning within established > parameters. > > Granted there are a lot of power accessories on this vessel. A > hardwired cell phone, Jacobs ignition, electric fuel pump, IPF lights, > and IPF Lighting relay; but I compensated for all of them with the > custom build 145 amp alternator with small flywheel, and low speed cut > in regulator. Heck I even have completely replaced the entire under > hood wire harness. Yet that power drain is still there. > > So how would somebody go about connecting their shop meter to determine > where a drain would be present with the truck turned off? What > procedure would best identify the source of the drain? > > Until The Next Dimension, > Admiral "Coluch." > Starfleet Headquarters > Ohio Post > END TRANSMISSION.................................... ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1439 **************************