From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Fri Oct 5 12:00:29 2001 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, October 5 2001 Volume 01 : Number 1472 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: mark's J3000 Re: fsj: Nice Price for an FSJ fsj: Four Wheeler - Nov 2001 Re: fsj: Fuel Gauge Sending Unit Re: fsj: mark's J3000 fsj: I love this style grille Re: fsj: I love this style grille RE: fsj: I love this style grille fsj: AUDIO GARAGE SALE UPDATE Re: fsj: I love this style grille Re: [Re: fsj: I love this style grille ] fsj: Re: Rear Axle ideas Re: fsj: I love this style grille FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 00:10:38 EDT From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: mark's J3000 >My wife found out today... but she didn't hurt us... yet... ;) John - That was just what I needed after a long day. If it's any consolation, you occasionally provide me with great entertainment : ) Also I can point to your antics as justification for my own. Can you imagine my wifes reaction Sunday while unpacking the camping stuff from the back of the Wag and finding 3 rusty tines from a hay rake? I'm glad I can say "that's nothing, do you know what John did...?" A Ford application NP205 would go very nicely with that C6. Actually why not just use a Ford 3/4 ton drivetrain? That way the brain work will be done when I get around to building my fantasy FSJ using what's left of my pickup when the frame finishes rusting away. By the way, do you have the '71 - '73 grilled Tonka Wagoneer with the wood stripe down the side? I got one about a year ago and it's an historically correct hideous green. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 21:43:25 +0000 From: Pat Hines Subject: Re: fsj: Nice Price for an FSJ George Milam wrote: > > Check this out East Coasters: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595873552& > r=0&t=0 > > George Milam > '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" > Vermont It's the last year for Cherokee's, the running boards look like pimp-mobile stuff. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:00:29 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Four Wheeler - Nov 2001 Just got my Nov 2001 issue of Four Wheeler. There is a very well written article comparing the Nissan Xterra and the Jeep Liberty. This is excellent automotive journalism. They used side by side pictures comparing features, and provided detailed specifications. They discussed both vehicles objectively. They were objective in their comparison and didn't favor one over the other. Too bad JP magazine has become such a piece of garbage... Anyway, I didn't realize that a 4 cylinder was the standard engine on the KJ. I need to look into that for economy. The 3.7L V6 seems to do remarkably well though. I'm going to try and fit in a test drive of the KJ tomorrow between Dr's appts and getting my son's '67 J3000 back home. The idea of trading in my '99 WJ for a new KJ and keeping the payments the same is intriguing, never had a new vehicle, and from what I'm reading about the KJ I just have to drive one before deciding. I'm sure the WJ has more features, but still... a new Jeep... it's so tempting... stay tuned... :) later, john ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com '99 Grand Cherokee Ltd (WJ) - for sale '83 J10 stepside (SJ) - undergoing frame off restoration '67 J-100 (SJ) - "paying" for restoration / '87 cherokee laredo (xj) '67 J-3000 (son's) / trailer material: '75 J10, '54 Chev stepside... http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:49:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Fuel Gauge Sending Unit A: I don't know if the Cherokee, etc gauges are compatible (I'm going to drop my '84 J10's tank probably monday in preparation for the bodylift and EFI tank install) I found a universal sending unit at the flea market that has the same R values as AMCs for pretty cheap. I was going to compare it with the '83 Cherokee's R-board, but haven't got around to it yet. I did use the r-board from an Eagle gastank in my '83 Cherokee (I had to take it apart and rewrap the coils to make it the correct resistance in the right places) From: Jim Mahaney Does anyone know of a replacement for a fuel gauge sending unit in a 1984 J-10? I called the dealer and they say that they are discontinued. I know that there are plenty available for CJ's and was wondering if one of those might be compatible. Thanks, Jim Mahaney 1984 J-10 1979 CJ-7 ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:51:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: mark's J3000 A: How about the front axle from a '76 Blazer? (It's RH drop and 6 bolt pattern)) From: john mark is buying back his '67 J3000 tomorrow... The transmission failed, but this doesn't worry us... I've managed to convince him to forego the '68 Montego and to build up his J3000. :) Although that means his big engine insanity is being aimed at the J-3000. :) He's going to drop his 460/C6 combo into it and get a divorced transfer case. I'm also suggesting he upgrade the axles... I think he's listening. :) This will be an awesome tow vehicle by the time he's done. He's got a mechanic friend that is talking sense into him so it'll be built correctly and safely. :) The '75 J10 I'm buying will probably provide him with the front axle and some sheet metal. Although I think Jay probably fixed most of the sheet metal issues while he had it. My wife found out today... but she didn't hurt us... yet... ;) john - - ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:05:51 -0400 From: George Milam Subject: fsj: I love this style grille Question for the group: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595873552& Does anybody know if the style grille on this thing (follow the link) will fit on my '89 GW? If it does fit, are these grilles exclusive to the Cherokee or did they make GW's with this style. What years and models have this grille type? I'd really like to find a grille with the vertical rails to put on "The Moose". I think they look pretty sharp. Thanks, George Milam '89 GW "Moose" Vermont ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 11:44:07 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: I love this style grille George Milam said: {- Question for the group: {- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595873552& {- Does anybody know if the style grille on this thing (follow the link) will {- fit on my '89 GW? I haven't tried it myself, but I'd bet "yes" enough to get one. I'm actually interested in the 1969ish grille. The main grilles that I think would have trouble would be the original rhino chaser and the early 70s Wagoneer grille that had the turn signals in the middle of the grille. That's what I have, and while I think the other grilles will fit on it, I'll have to figure out some way to accommodate the turn signals. My current plan is to eventually get a 1969ish grille for it and use a brush guard (probably Killer32) with the turn signals mounted on that. If you want to compare pics of the grilles, compare: 74 Wag: http://129.186.79.84/74Wag/DSCN0450.JPG 85 GWag (GWag 1984-1985 style, and I think some years until 1983 Cherokees): http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dsblack/85GW-OLD/85GW-1l-front.jpg 88 GWag (1986-1991 style): http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dsblack/88GW/88GW-front2.jpg Feel free to browse in those directories; other pics give side angle views and stuff for each. Anyway, note that on the '74, the grille actually comes down to cover where the turn signals are on other models. And of course you see where its turn signals are instead. I originally planned to cut out that area to put in standard turn signals on the '74 (to accommodate the 1969 grille), and I may still do this, but I discovered I do like the centered circular signals. So I might end up with both in the end (with the '69 grille) -- the standard turn signals just above the bumper at the edges _and_ circular ones on the outer center of a brush guard. {- If it does fit, are these grilles exclusive to the Cherokee or did they make {- GW's with this style. I believe the Grands only had the two styles illustrated above; the 84-85 and the 86-91. Someone else can verify this part and may well end up correcting me, but I think the grille you like was never on the Grand Wags or the plain Wags (1983 and before). But I think it _was_ used on various J-trucks in addition to the Cherokees. (And those J-trucks may have even used them as late as '86 or whenever they stopped making them.) {- What years and models have this grille type? Besides the general ranges I gave above, not sure on the years. I'd guess they started in the 78-80 range. {- I'd really like to find a grille with the vertical rails to put on "The {- Moose". I think they look pretty sharp. That's probably my second-favorite grille. The reason I like the late 60s better is they have similar vertical rails, but they're marginally thinner (at least in appearance) and have the offset badge. I love that. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh yeah? Who do you think paid for your little love jaunt to Mexico City? -- Martin Bishop/Brice - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:08:54 -0400 From: George Milam Subject: RE: fsj: I love this style grille Dan: Thanks for the info. That grille you are talking about with the offset badge is so sweet. I know where I can get the grille that I was asking about and I was curious to know if it would fit. Upon closer observation it looks like it should swap out fine. Those are some great photos that you have on-line. Are those FSJs all yours? May I ask you for a link to the directory page? Thanks Again! George Milam '89 Grand Wagoneer "Moose" Vermont - -----Original Message----- From: Dan Black [mailto:dan-at-black.org] Sent: Friday, October 05, 2001 12:44 PM To: Full Size Jeeps Subject: Re: fsj: I love this style grille George Milam said: {- Question for the group: {- http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=595873552& {- Does anybody know if the style grille on this thing (follow the link) will {- fit on my '89 GW? I haven't tried it myself, but I'd bet "yes" enough to get one. I'm actually interested in the 1969ish grille. The main grilles that I think would have trouble would be the original rhino chaser and the early 70s Wagoneer grille that had the turn signals in the middle of the grille. That's what I have, and while I think the other grilles will fit on it, I'll have to figure out some way to accommodate the turn signals. My current plan is to eventually get a 1969ish grille for it and use a brush guard (probably Killer32) with the turn signals mounted on that. If you want to compare pics of the grilles, compare: 74 Wag: http://129.186.79.84/74Wag/DSCN0450.JPG 85 GWag (GWag 1984-1985 style, and I think some years until 1983 Cherokees): http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dsblack/85GW-OLD/85GW-1l-front.jpg 88 GWag (1986-1991 style): http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dsblack/88GW/88GW-front2.jpg Feel free to browse in those directories; other pics give side angle views and stuff for each. Anyway, note that on the '74, the grille actually comes down to cover where the turn signals are on other models. And of course you see where its turn signals are instead. I originally planned to cut out that area to put in standard turn signals on the '74 (to accommodate the 1969 grille), and I may still do this, but I discovered I do like the centered circular signals. So I might end up with both in the end (with the '69 grille) -- the standard turn signals just above the bumper at the edges _and_ circular ones on the outer center of a brush guard. {- If it does fit, are these grilles exclusive to the Cherokee or did they make {- GW's with this style. I believe the Grands only had the two styles illustrated above; the 84-85 and the 86-91. Someone else can verify this part and may well end up correcting me, but I think the grille you like was never on the Grand Wags or the plain Wags (1983 and before). But I think it _was_ used on various J-trucks in addition to the Cherokees. (And those J-trucks may have even used them as late as '86 or whenever they stopped making them.) {- What years and models have this grille type? Besides the general ranges I gave above, not sure on the years. I'd guess they started in the 78-80 range. {- I'd really like to find a grille with the vertical rails to put on "The {- Moose". I think they look pretty sharp. That's probably my second-favorite grille. The reason I like the late 60s better is they have similar vertical rails, but they're marginally thinner (at least in appearance) and have the offset badge. I love that. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- Oh yeah? Who do you think paid for your little love jaunt to Mexico City? -- Martin Bishop/Brice - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:21:36 EDT From: RMSquaredJeeps-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: AUDIO GARAGE SALE UPDATE I just wanted to thank everyone who has bid and bought just about everything I've listed thus far. In almost every case the winners have been members of one of the Jeep or AMC lists I belong to. With that in mind, before I list the next batch of items, I thought it best to list them here with my planned reserves and proposed Buy It Now (BIN) prices. Anyone from the lists can contact me directly and if I haven't listed the particular item yet, you can buy it at the proposed reserve price. Here's what I've got coming up next: Audiovox P98 - $80 reserve, $89.95 BIN Coustic CD527 - $90 reserve, $99.95 BIN Kenwood eXcelon KDC-X814 - $300 reserve, $319.95 BIN Panasonic CQ-DRX900U - $400 reserve, $429.95 BIN Sony CDC-X7000 - $140 reserve, $149.95 BIN These are unused 2000 model in-dash AM/FM/CD head units that were used for photography purposes. Before setting the reserve prices I checked the completed items listings on eBay in order to set a fair price. If you find the same item cheaper, in new condition and want to make a lower offer, E-mail me the URL of the listing and if my price seems high, chances are I will accept your bid. The worst I can say is no, right? Here are some additional items, amplifiers and speakers, again all unused, uninstalled photo samples. Audiobahn 4600E 4-channel amplifier, $180 reserve, $199.95 BIN Cerwin-Vega Vega 3200 2-channel amplifier, $200.00 reserve, $219.95 BIN DEI model 500 4-channel amplifier, $180 reserve, $199.95 BIN JBL P 80.4 4-channel amplifier, $180 reserve, $199.95 BIN Jensen KA-5 5-channel amplifier, $180 reserve, $199.95 BIN Memphis 16-MB17 6-channel amplifier, $400 reserve, $449 BIN MTX RT2400 2-channel amplifier, $150 reserve, $169.95 BIN Profile 1200SX 2-channel amplifier, $140 reserve, $159.95 BIN Xtant 404M 4-channel amplifier, $200 reserve, $219.95 BIN HiFonics 5.2C separates, $120 reserve, $129.95 BIN HiFonics 6.2C separates, $130 reserve, $139.95 BIN Infinity BassLink powered subwoofer, $250 reserve, $269.95 BIN JL Audio VR650-CS separates, $160 reserve, $179.95 BIN Kenwood eXcelon KFC-Xr600 coax, $120 reserve, $129.95 BIN Massive Audio CX-6 coax, $100 reserve, $109.95 BIN Soundstream Exact 6.2 coax, $150 reserve, BIN $169.95 BIN Whatever is not spoken for by this afternoon, I'm going to list tonight on eBay so here's your chance to save some money. I have few items still up on eBay from my first series of listings. They can be viewed at: http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=jeep-wagoneer The Sherwood gear (head unit, surround sound decoder and 6-channel amplifier) is especially attractively priced. I prefer PayPal. If you're interested in something, E-mail me your ZIP code and I'll give you an exact price, including UPS charges for your choice of shipment method (air, 2-day, select or ground). If I get payment confirmation before 2 PM PDT, they will go out the same day. Please check my eBay feedback file for my seller history...it's flawless. I have install information dating back to 1969 so I can provide photo copies of appropriate information if requested. At one time I owned a mobile electronics store so if you have installation-related questions, don't hesitate to ask. Obviously the required Jeep-related content is that all of this gear can be installed in any Jeep. Good luck, Rich Truesdell ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 13:10:16 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: I love this style grille George Milam said: {- Those are some great photos that you have on-line. Are those FSJs all {- yours? May I ask you for a link to the directory page? I gave the '85 to a friend -- transfer case blew, couldn't get any decent price for it, and I wanted interior parts from it. He wanted the engine, tranny, and frame to fix up a Scout. The other two -- the '88 and '74 -- are still mine. Neither is running at the moment. I'm waiting on a different TBI system for the '88 (so there is currently no fuel delivery system on it), and the '74 is having a remanufactured engine put in. So the '74's been out of commission for probably a month, and the '88's been out since late July. If I'm lucky, I could get both back into action around the end of next week. For the directories, just trim off the filename at the end of the URL. So you'll end up with: http://129.186.79.84/74Wag/ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dsblack/85GW-OLD/ http://www.public.iastate.edu/~dsblack/88GW/ The last two will actually give you a standard homepage, but all the pics in those directories are thumbnailed on the pages anyway. The first one will give you a _real_ directory listing since I haven't organized those yet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Failure is not an option! It comes bundled with the software. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: 5 Oct 2001 12:36:16 MDT From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: I love this style grille ] Dan Black wrote: > George Milam said: > > Does anybody know if the style grille on this thing (follow the link) > > will fit on my '89 GW? > > I haven't tried it myself, but I'd bet "yes" enough to get one. I'm > actually interested in the 1969ish grille. You may have to use some ingenuity, but it can be done. In CFSJA one guy is running an 83 Chero grille on a 79 Chero. Another ran 86+ GW grille on an 83 Chero. > > If it does fit, are these grilles exclusive to the Cherokee or did > > they make GW's with this style. > > I believe the Grands only had the two styles illustrated above; the > 84-85 and the 86-91. The pictured grille is specific to the Cherokee. And was probably only for 1983. The GW's only had two grille styles, 84-85 and 86-91 which resembles the Chero grille you shared, but the center insert is all black intersecting horizontal and vertical lines IIRC rather than the vertical slats of the Chero. I think the same style grille ran on all models from 1979-1982, except that possibly one or more years during 80-82 the grille was painted black with only a single horizontal silver stripe in the center and the outer trim in silver as well. Not 100% sure. Typically in the 74-83 era, Cherokees and J-trucks shared identical grilles. I don't know about J-trucks from 84-87. My guess is the 86 and 87 used the 83 Chero grille and the 84-85 used the same grille as the GW. Would love to find out for sure. Whatever the case, this is one of the hardest to find grille styles I know of. I think in general at least 74-91, the Wagoneers/Grand Wags/Wag LTDs shared the same grille, and the Cherokees/J-trucks shared grilles. In 79 and possibly years up until 83, they all used the same grille. > That's probably my second-favorite grille. The reason I like the late > 60s better is they have similar vertical rails, but they're marginally > thinner (at least in appearance) and have the offset badge. I love > that. The offset badge is nice. I have a pair of mid-70's chero/j-truck grilles which are th same but without the badge. I think they look pretty cool, tho I'm not sure if they'll look right on my 86 with the Killer32 front bumper. We'll see. I wouldn't mind switching to round headlights. :) Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - michael.shimniok-at-usa.net Donate or give blood: http://www.redcross.org 1-800-HELPNOW ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 11:38:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: Rear Axle ideas I posted this on the XJ list, but thought someone could make use of it here. A: Depends what year and model FSJ. Pre '80 Dana 44s are offset to the passenger's side front and rear (not a good thing with a short output shaft like the XJ) '80 to '83 SJs come in 3 widths (Dana 44 front, but Model 20 round cover in the rear, not D44 stop sign shaped cover till -at-'86). 4 dr and 2 dr narrow track are supposed to be same width differential as XJs (the FSJ tire offset makes it look wider. SJ are innies, and XJ are outties) I have both in my driveway right now, but I'm off to work soon so I don't have time to measure. Paul W already did and posted some time back. Some 2 drs are widetrack (if they have the flared fenders, they may be Wide Track or Narrow Track) which are 5" wider on the front and 3" wider on the rear. The pickups are 5" wider on the rear. (If you have a Pickup Model 20 rear diff, I'd gladly trade for the narrow track Model 20 in my driveway!) After '84, there was only the 4 dr Grand Wagoneer Narrow Track and Pickup made. -at-'87 the pickups went away, 8^( which left only the Narrow Track till '91 (last year of the real Grand Wagoneer. There was a "Fake" '93 ZJ based version that went over like a lead balloon) From: chrisonnink-at-aol.com Actually, my original idea was to use the (snip) BTW: One the axle subject again, "could" a SJ (I think that's what it is) D44 go under a XJ. I know someone who wants to GIVE me one, but I think the tubes need to be trimmed? Since obviously a D44 will outdo the 8.25, except maybe in ground clearance? Thanks Chris Onnink Bothell, WA ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 14:23:03 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: I love this style grille Michael Shimniok said: {- The offset badge is nice. I have a pair of mid-70's chero/j-truck grilles {- which are th same but without the badge. I think they look pretty cool, tho {- I'm not sure if they'll look right on my 86 with the Killer32 front bumper. {- We'll see. I wouldn't mind switching to round headlights. :) Ah, then you'll need different headlight buckets, too, eh? It'd be tempting to swap the grill (and headlights) from a '69 onto the '88, too. :) Not sure if that would look right, either, though. I think it'll look fine on the '74. If you do do that, the round headlights with the Killer32, be sure to post pics somewhere. :) Do you have the "bird wires" on it then? I wanted those, and did think they might look a bit odd with the round headlights, but I doubt they'd look bad. Maybe like eyes with narrow rectangular glasses, which may look fine. Looks like with the standard '74 grill, the Killer32 brush guard might cover most of the turn signals anyway. So maybe add the standard ones under the headlights, get new round ones to mount on the inside side of the brush guard, and add fog lights (my '74 has none) on the bumper part, just below the fog lights... Heh, before spending that much money and putting in that much effort, I'll probably do some Photoshopping to see what will look best. :) I'll post 'em if I come up with anything decent. :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea. -- Robert A. Heinlein - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1472 **************************