From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jan 2 12:15:46 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, January 2 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1535 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: New Year... fsj: Re: 1989 Wagoneer fsj: an uplifting experience... watch your step though... fsj: Re: wagoneer fsj: charging problems fsj: RE: 1989 Wagoneer Re: [fsj: Re: 1989 Wagoneer] Re: [fsj: Re: 1989 Wagoneer] fsj: HEAD for 230 CI Tornado fsj: Re: charging problems FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 12:00:44 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: New Year... (I had to share! ) A: And may you kick Bin Laden's butt over to the nearest Marine if you see him! (What? You weren't thinking that?) From: "Dennis Fariello" Happy New Year to you too, Ehsan, and to all on the list. May the wind always be at your back, may the road always rise to meet you. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:13:35 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1989 Wagoneer At 11:17 AM 1/1/02 -0600, A.B. Davis wrote: jafotwo-at-swbell.net >Happy New Year; thanx >Can you give some advice on tires? I am installing a 4" Superlift system, >springs all the way around and considering what tire to use. I have decided >on Goodyear Wrangler AT/S tires, but the size is my concern with the small >rear fender wells. two things, 1) are we dealing with an XJ or SJ? You said Wagoneer, but is it a Grand Wagoneer or a Wagoneer Limited? (coil springs in front would be XJ, leaf springs all four corners SJ) (I'm guessing we're talking a GW... but hard to say... so I'll address both) 2) I wouldn't recommend Good year tires, they don't last long and have inferior offroad durability. I used to love Goodyear Wranglers... but they'd wear out way fast and would puncture easily in brush. I HIGHLY recommend either Michelin or BFG AT's. If you get the BFG's (also made by Michelin) get them siped. The AT K0's are very nice, the MTs are also nice, both ride well and are quiet enough for daily use. There are a lot of other tires out there that I just flat out don't like. But I'm fussy and like a nice quiet riding rig as more than 95% of my time in the Jeep is on wet pavement. :) Of course if you want to do hard core wheeling and still drive daily, you can always have two sets of tires... I've got three or four sets of tires for my FSJ. Economy, snow and mild trail use... >I would like to go with 32 X 11.5 but as I said concerned about rubbing >during articulation and rough terrain. I'm not a big fan of wide tires. Unless you are off roading in sand or swamp, I prefer a narrow tread to get better contact pressure and better traction in snow and on wet roads. I've heard of guys preferring a narrow tire in mud even as it allows you to get down to hard surface... but the opinions vary... if you're doing mud you want a self-cleaning tread no matter what you go with... my Michelin LTX ATs and BFG ATs clog up in mud and become big slimy slicks... :) However, wide does look cooler... If we're talking a Full Size Jeep, you should be fine on clearing the inner fender/frame and springs in the rear, although you may want to cut or crimp the inner lip of the fender back up so it doesn't cut the tire if there is an issue. If you rub on the inside of the fender/frame then a slight offset rim might solve the problem. I know of several folks running tires that big without trouble, especially with 4" of lift. If you really wanted to be sure of clearance then add a 2" body lift and you will be clear for sure. (can't do a body lift on an XJ though... but there are other solutions, like offset rims, spacers, and a few other ideas I've seen... if you have an XJ I recommend getting on the XJ list and asking, they've got it figured out.) I've run 31x10.5's on a basically stock FSJ and not had rubbing, another inch in height and width would have been fine, without a lift, looks silly though. My '77 Cherokee has at least 4 inches of lift and has 31x10.5s on it right now and could easily go much, much bigger... (so says my son, who plans on buying it from me when my J10 is done... I think he's talking about 33x12.5s... ) If we're talking an XJ, I've run 30x9.5s with no lift... 31x10.5s with 2" of lift (Old Man Emu) and did not have rubbing. My friends who have gone with a wider tire and larger, have encountered some rubbing on the inner fender and the sway bar. Neither were serious or a problem as hopefully when you're rubbing and at full articulation you're going slow... :) >What would you suggest? see above. :) >Thanks >Paul Davis ur welcome, john meister ----------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://wagoneers.com '99 Grand Cherokee Ltd (WJ) - http://wagoneers.com/WJ '83 J10 stepside (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/SuperDawg '77 Cherokee (SJ) - http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-77-cherokee (son's collection: '67 J-3000, 67 Fairlane, 68 Montego) http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... ----------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:19:19 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: an uplifting experience... watch your step though... At 05:44 AM 1/1/02 -0500, George Milam wrote: >John, thanks! >Any idea what a set of 3" lift springs would cost me? Can you recomend a >good source? >Thanks, >George Milam >'89 Grand Wagoneer >Vermont one of the gentlemen in Colorado did an excellent write up, I think I have a copy of his work on my server... hold the line a second, why yes, here it is, compliments of Mr. Michael E. Shimniok: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/FSJ-lift-options.html for more ideas see my ramblings in: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Suspension/ Another idea is to do what someone did to my '77 Wagoneer... added extended shackles and moved the spring mounts... the springs look stock, but I dang near need a stepping stool to get in and out of it... :) Of course I'm a runt, but still... that first step is a doozie getting out... http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/johns-77-cherokee/Dec27-2001/ALL-jeeps-dec27-2001.jpg I can take some close ups of it... The welds are a bit frightening looking... almost as bad as my welding... but it seems ok... Most of the time I'll be driving it at a top speed of about 35 mph to and from work... later, john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:55:06 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: wagoneer At 02:38 PM 1/1/02 -0800, you wrote: >Hi John, > >Read your posting "Christmas with Old Blue". I recently purchased a 1983 >Wagoneer Limited Ed. that is running great and extremely clean. Do you >know of any other good sites to check out? > >Thanks Shelley Not off the top of my head... lots of personal sites with info and pix, but I can't think of anything (in English) like my site... getting on the FSJ list would be a great resource and there's a few folks that will provide a number of great links... see sig file for details. Christmas with Old Blue??? that was almost 6 years ago wasn't it? :) I've got SuperDawg (being restored) and a '77 Cherokee I haven't named yet... :) john ====================================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ====================================================================================== john-at-wagoneers.com Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ===================================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:07:53 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: charging problems >From: "Daniel Beiers" >Guys, Need some advice. The wagoneer is not charging the battery. >evidently it >will run just fine but after driving for awhile, if i turn it off, it >won't start again. if i wait a little and give the battery some time to >recharge itslef it turns over and will go down the road until the next >time i turn it off. i haven't driven it like this at all, just from the >gas station it broke down at back home. >At first I was thinking alternator but it seems odd that it runs the >vehicle but will not charge the battery...doesn't it? I thought maybe >the starter solenoid, which everything apperas to go through but it does >start, with a charged battery. What should i be looking for? And, if i >end up replacing the alt is should i think about putting a higher amp >model on? according to the parts store i have a like a 63 amp model on >there now. i did purchase the alternator but would gladly take it back >if there is another one that would be more desirable. >Thanks for any help or advice you can offer. If its not too much trouble >please CC me on the replies, I am going to try to fix this thing >tomorrow whole i have the day off. >Many thanks >Dan >85 Grand Wagoneer There are only two things that could cause a problem like this: 1) the battery 2) the alternator The thought of some sort of short in the system is eliminated because the battery recovers if setting for a while. That also eliminates the battery in this case. That leaves the alternator. Most likely it's a bad diode, that will reduce it's output enough to cause this problem. I've had this happen a number of times, very common. The other possibility is the regulator, it may be set too low. That would indicate a poor rebuild. I've seen this a number of times on alternators I bought at chain stores like schucks, al's and so on... I recommend going to a parts store that has an alternator and battery tester they can take out to your rig and test. I wouldn't waste my time pulling either battery or alternator and bringing it into a shop, find a store or shop that has a portable tester. :) My guess it's your alternator. I have had very, very bad luck with chain stores like Schucks (sorry Jim), Al's(Schucks (CSK) bought them out, they were pretty bad), and other places like them. I'd recommend buying one from a CarQuest or NAPA store, or having it rebuilt. You can buy rebuild kits from JC Whitney even, although the quality is unknown, buy the best.... Lifetime warranty parts from chain auto parts stores are sort of nice, but you do the labor... It's better to buy quality and do the job once. I will either have an alternator or starter rebuilt by a pro, or buy quality from the dealer or a NAPA, or other major distributer that supplies dealerships and NAPA outlets. The list of bad parts I've bought from my local Schucks includes a bad power steering pump, three alternators, two starters and a partridge in a pear tree... ;) However, the guys there were great, helpful and gave me no grief for the returns. They have great customer service and if you run across a knowledgeable guy like Jim they can save you a lot of time and money. If you do buy from them get the premium parts, even if they have to special order... When I've done that for odd-ball vehicles, like my Mercedes Benz Diesels, the parts they ordered in were superior to what was on the shelf and held up fine. Upgrade... pay more, or buy elsewhere... what's your time worth? ;) I hate doing the same job twice... happy new year... john - --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:28:11 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: 1989 Wagoneer On Wed, 2 Jan 2002, A.B. Davis wrote: >-->John, >--> >-->Thank you for the info and your approach was perfect. It is a 1989 Grand >-->Wagoneer with it all, including factory tow package, head liner console >-->(haven't seen many with one) with map lights and leather interior. >--> >-->Now, how about the engine. I would like to put late model Dodge Fuel >-->injection on it. What are your thoughts on this. If you can swing it, go with the new Grand Cherokee v8 4.7L, it's a better motor than the Dodge 5.2 or 5.9. In fact, the new dodges are using them as well. I've got one in a '99 WJ that has impressed me with it's power and economy. john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 2 Jan 2002 10:47:39 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: 1989 Wagoneer] Don't know about AT/S tires... but the magazines have been raving over the new and much more durable Wrangler MT/R. The old ones, apparently, were very prone to puncture as John mentioned, but not so with the new ones so they say. Traction off-road is supposed to be excellent while on-road they aren't as loud as some mt's. They are awful expensive tho and I seem to remember some folks expressing concern about their on-road longevity, unlike BFG AT's which I adore. I put a lot of trust in my AT's and for on-road they are very quiet and handle nicely. They are great in ice and snow. Offroad they are quite adequate unless you are into serious 'crawling or mud. I had a set of Big Foot AT's that came with my 86 and I actually punctured them thru a tread lug (!) going thru a stream crossing. I have since had the AT's on far sharper rocks at various inflation levels on many occasions and I no longer worry that I'll pop a tire; It's been three years and counting without a flat off-road. I think the wide vs narrow debate will never be resolved until some scientific, quantitative proof can be offered and maybe not even then. :) Ask lots of hardcore wheelers and see what they say; I doubt this will clear it up for you. :) Not that I'm all that experienced off-road (only been at it 5 years) but I prefer wide as I think it's all about the size of the contact patch on slickrock, rocky terrain, dirt, and sand I encounter in CO (and Moab). What's this "mud" thing you talk about? :) I don't think you can go wrong with 32x11.5's and 4" lift, tho you may have to pound in the fender lip on the front edge of the rear fender. Bend it in 45 degrees, then grind the rocker/quarter panel seam to match (I did this to successfully fit 31's on a stock sagging wag and it did fine at full articulation--and I mean FULL articulation). Your tires will rub at full twist, but won't be cut up. You may need to bend in other areas; my only experiences are with 31's on 0, 2", and 4" lifts. You'll need to trim the rear fender a fair bit to fit 33x12.50's without slicing them off-road or even on-road. Narrower 33's might fit easier. I did the tire-swapping thing back in my autocross days... it sucked and those were light little 185/60R14 with only 4 lug nuts per wheel. :) So I insist on a compromise tire for my Waggies. john wrote: > 2) I wouldn't recommend Good year tires, they don't last long and have > inferior offroad durability. I used to love Goodyear Wranglers... > but they'd wear out way fast and would puncture easily in brush. I > HIGHLY recommend either Michelin or BFG AT's. If you get the BFG's > (also made by Michelin) get them siped. The AT K0's are very nice, > the MTs are also nice, both ride well and are quiet enough for daily >... - --- Michael Shimniok - KC0EKI - "A computer without Microsoft Michael.Shimniok-at-USA.NET is like a dog without bricks http://pw2.netcom.com/~shimniok/ tied to its head..." ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:59:01 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: 1989 Wagoneer] On 2 Jan 2002, Michael Shimniok wrote: >-->I had a set of Big Foot AT's that came with my 86 and I actually punctured >-->them thru a tread lug (!) going thru a stream crossing. I have since had the >-->AT's on far sharper rocks at various inflation levels on many occasions and I >-->no longer worry that I'll pop a tire; It's been three years and counting >-->without a flat off-road. one of the tires on my '77 Chero was a Big Foot... not impressed with them or Les Schwab tires. The Michelins are doing quite nicely... but still the '77 is a handful, something isn't quite right with the suspension... steering is too light... oh well, it's just a temp ride until Superdawg is done... :( >-->I think the wide vs narrow debate will never be resolved until some >-->scientific, quantitative proof can be offered and maybe not even then. :) Ask >-->lots of hardcore wheelers and see what they say; I doubt this will clear it up >-->for you. :) Not that I'm all that experienced off-road (only been at it 5 >-->years) but I prefer wide as I think it's all about the size of the contact >-->patch on slickrock, rocky terrain, dirt, and sand I encounter in CO (and >-->Moab). What's this "mud" thing you talk about? :) see, wide works on rock... but in snow and mud it makes for big slicks... :) on wet or icy roads they can be a handful... >-->I did the tire-swapping thing back in my autocross days... it sucked and those >-->were light little 185/60R14 with only 4 lug nuts per wheel. :) So I insist on >-->a compromise tire for my Waggies. tire swapping is fine in theory... ;) >-->Michael Shimniok - KC0EKI - "A computer without Microsoft >-->Michael.Shimniok-at-USA.NET is like a dog without bricks >-->http://pw2.netcom.com/~shimniok/ tied to its head..." Love that sig file... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:13:52 -0600 From: Landon Tesar Subject: fsj: HEAD for 230 CI Tornado Hi Jeff. Yes, a machine shop can check a head for damage, cracks or deformation. They will magnaflux it, which will show if it is cracked. They will place a straightedge on it, to show if it has warped. Both are common with 6 cylinders, as they have a high length to width ratio. Did you see signs of leakage on the head gasket after removing it ? This is usually discoloration in the form of rust where the water has traveled. Careful when planing this head if it is warped, as it is overhead cam, so the cam drive distances are more critical. - - Landon ======================== > Subject: Re: fsj: HEAD for 230 CI Tornado > > A: A couple of questions. Was the head planed? Did you retorque the > head? You may be able to get away from changing it by retightening. Or > possibly a can of block seal. > > From: "Faith Jeff" > > Hi does anyone have a good HEAD for a "230 ci Tornado" for sale? > I'm running a 63 wagoneer. oil is mixing with water. head gasket was > replaced and still oil/water problem. guess head is the next culprit. > can a machine shop check a head for damage? > Thanks, > Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:18:07 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: Re: charging problems A: I have to agree. I've seen enough returns on the cheaper end stuff to bug me. I rebuild my own, get someone to build it for me (like the tech at Southend Autowrecking) or get the premium line alt (mind you, using the 7294 (IIRC) instead of the 7127 series seems to work just fine since they were originally for the diesels) From: john My guess it's your alternator. I have had very, very bad luck with chain stores like Schucks (sorry Jim), Al's(Schucks (CSK) bought them out, they were pretty bad), and other places like them. I'd recommend buying one from a CarQuest or NAPA store, or having it rebuilt. You can buy rebuild kits from JC Whitney even, although the quality is unknown, buy the best.... From: "Daniel Beiers" Guys, Need some advice. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=13998 ************************************** ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1535 **************************