From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Feb 23 19:51:59 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, February 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1574 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [fsj: Re: [FSJparts] FSJ Spotted] fsj: rocker panels for FSJ's...Re: Honcho decals fsj: 83 Cherokee Chief fsj: Re: [FSJparts] fSM Re: fsj: Re: help please Re: fsj: Jeeps america? fsj: RE: [FSJ-List] Re: [FSJparts] fSM [none] fsj: Re: Jeeps america? fsj: Re: [FSJparts] fSM fsj: The "Nutter" Bypass fsj: The Legend of old Billy Blair (Jan03/29 to Feb08/02) fsj: Re: The Legend of old Billy Blair (Jan03/29 to Feb08/02) fsj: Re: Message: 23 ;) reply... (long) FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Feb 2002 23:08:17 MST From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [fsj: Re: [FSJparts] FSJ Spotted] Hmph! I hope he spanks everyone's proverbial butts. :) john wrote: > At 07:28 PM 2/21/02 -0800, JP wrote: > >80 Cherokee Chief in the April 2002 , Four Wheeler Mag. > >Valen Thompson's from Las Vegas , Nevada, page 54 . > >He's in the running to be voted in to the Top-Truck- > >Challenge-2002 Event, put on by Four-Wheeler-Mag. The > >top 10 voted in out of 71 go to the Challenge. > >Butch > >Cudahy,WI. > > just got mine, saw it... the comment was that the stock > FSJ driveline won't hold up to TTC!!!! HA! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > - --- Michael E. Shimniok KC0EKI "Unix is evil. Daemons run michael.shimniok-at-usa.net wild. Zombies roam and http://www.netcom.com/pw2/~shimniok children are killed. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 00:38:44 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: rocker panels for FSJ's...Re: Honcho decals No problem .. will be in touch or call me anytime.. 256-881-8018 I just have these pics of the J-10 developed, and measure the decals, on the side of the truck.. and map it out for the guy and send it off to the guy.. I will send a pic if you like to compare decals,, because I noticed that the 73 Honcho ( for Example) seems to be( the decal ) is slightly different then mine.. I have no choice, since My paint is worn literally off past gray primer to bare metal that is rusted in large spots, while other areas are not. very well worn look of a paint job.. so it's oh oh.. better get Maco time... I think.. Anything is better then letting go to rust, even if it is a half way descent paint job.. it won't rust any more.. It will certainly look better too! Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:41:12 -0600 From: "Frank Donnelly" Subject: Re: rocker panels for FSJ's...Re: Honcho decals RJ: Frank in Texas here..I would be interested in decals for the Honcho..Please keep me posted as you develope the possibility..On or off list would be just fine..My e-mail is frankdojr-at- aol.com. Have a good Jeep evening! Thanks! Frank P.S Also, thanks so much for sharing the rocker panel source and their e-mail. I really needed that info at this time. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.J. Baynum" To: Cc: ; <1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com>; ; Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:24 PM Subject: [FSJ-List] rocker panels for FSJ's... >> go to http://www.raybucks.com >> And get a free catalog.. page 37.. 1962-92 >> They list . >> >> part # ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:00:58 EST From: Brdshootr-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: 83 Cherokee Chief Hey guys, I found a very nice '83 Cherokee Chief for sale here in Ohio and was wondering if you guys could give me some info. Did these Cherokees come stock with locking hubs? The owner said it had 3.31 gears, was this an option? My Wag has 3.31 gears but it has the tow package. This Cherokee has a transmission cooler but it only has a dinky little hitch not the 2" receiver type hitch. Any other info you can supply would be greatly appreciated. Please reply direct cause I think I am going to buy it tomorrow. Carl ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:51:18 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJparts] fSM On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Keith Butler wrote: >-->anyone know where there is an online version of the factory service manual for an 80 wagoneer. search ebay for one. used bookstores get them, amazon.com can find them you can search amazon.com from my server, would appreciate it, http://wagoneers.com >-->Also please help me identify my tcase. >-->front diff is on drivers side. >-->rear diff is center >-->tcase shift patern is 4 h - 4h locked - n - 4 l - 4 l locked NP 219 Quadratrac, nice unit, full time system. >-->ive been told that it is possible to install a twin shift pattern, as well as easy to convert to a dual t case setup. not a chance, you have no 2wd mode, don't even think about putting hubs on it. :) A dual transfer case setup would be hard with the full time unit, you'd have to switch to two part time units, or move the NP219 to the final output... >--> >-->Also what would be the best aproach to set this motor to work on propane . Ive heard that propane is higher octane, and needs a higher compression to make it work properly. i would like to build the motor up to run on supreme fuel (92 octane up here i think) at $0.65 a liter as a backup, but run it mostly on propane (130 octane) at $0.35 a liter. Jim Blair has looked into it. I think there are some federal restrictions, not sure, but with the lower energy content of propane, higher costs and hassles of filling it's not all that desireable. If you go that route make it dual-fuel. >--> >-->and finaly where does the stregth of the rear AMC 20 axel fall compared to dana 44, ford 8.8 and 9 chrystle 8.x exct?. Is it the same rear end in the lighter jeep with two piece c clips axels, or is it stronger. What is available to strengthen this axel, as it already has a detroit in it, so i dont want to have to start from scrath again on it. The AMC 20 is ok, it has a larger ring & pinion than the D44, but the axle tubes can come loose from the pumpkin. In the FSJ it's a one-piece axle. I've had not trouble with mine, but if you're going to do serious wheeling you want to truss it, weld it and skid plate it. :) >-->Also any one know of info on converting to rear discs. stainless steel brakes is the way I did my XJ. there are other ways of doing it. SuperKen did it with Ford brakes. >--> >-->thanks for all the help. You guys and girl(s)? are a great help. I only hope that as i learn the ins and outs, i can help future FSJers as much as you guys have me. are you on the fsj list on digest.net? john >--> >-->Keith Butler witelitning-at-shaw.ca >-->1980 Wagonner held together with fiberglass replaced rust >-->detroit locers F & R with 32 "x12.5 muds >-->large fenderwells courtesy of PO, rust and my grinder >-->no interior ( yet)and under construction! >-->and it will be babied "lets see what this baby will do" >--> >--> >-->[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >--> >--> >-->------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> >-->Buy Stock for $4. >-->No Minimums. >-->FREE Money 2002. >-->http://us.click.yahoo.com/BgmYkB/VovDAA/ySSFAA/unTolB/TM >-->---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> >--> >-->To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >-->FSJparts-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >--> >--> >--> >-->Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >--> >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Re: help please A: Another place to check is http://www.books4cars.com They are just a couple miles north of me off Rainier ave in Columbia city (one of the south burbs of Seattle) From: john At 07:40 PM 2/21/02 -0500, Belair216-at-aol.com wrote: Hi I just bought a 66 j-3000 gladiator PU. if you know of any place I can buy a repair manual for it please tell me where. Thank you, Adam Tower Belair216-at-aol.com Olympic 4x4 has them on the shelf, JC Whitney sells them, you'll find them on ebay... :) they're everywhere... :) Shoot, I've got two of 'em on my shelf... falling apart, taped together, greasy... I've seen 'em new for $13 to $19. JC Whitney might be the easiest place to buy them. john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:42:41 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Jeeps america? A: How about http://www.jeepamerica.com/ ? From: "R.J. Baynum" ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:22:52 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: RE: [FSJ-List] Re: [FSJparts] fSM On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Dennis Fariello wrote: >--> >--> Welcome back! welcome back? ;) where've I been? did I take a trip and not leave the farm? ;) >--> What, 170-or so days till Ouray? http://www.cfsja.org/2002/ the counter says 173 days... :) will Timex make it? will SuperDawg make it??? Inquiring minds wish to know... ;) Who knows, I may show up in an '83 Ford Ranger with a Diesel and a lifesize picture of SuperDawg taped to the sides. :) Or maybe the '99 WJ, might be easier to attach the photos... ;) so, are you planning on showing up? Better get a reservation pretty soon before space runs out. :) Mark Wallace got in touch, he might be able to make it too. He still has his '81 Wagoneer, 225,000 miles or so on it now... john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:17:44 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: [none] A: Umm, you must mean http://www.raybuck.com Raybuck"s" is a tax website (I'm sure they appreciate all the hits though!) From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: rocker panels for FSJ's... go to http://www.raybucks.com And get a free catalog.. page 37.. 1962-92 They list . part # 78144-1/2 Rocker panel (OEM type) (62-91, 2 Door) (71"L) 39.95 78145-1/2 Rocker panel ( OEM type) (62-91,4 Door) (67"L) 39.95 78143-1/2 Rocker panel ( OEM type ) ( 62-83 pickup) 39.95 ( 54" L X 6" H ) 78146-1/2 Rocker panel slip-on (62-92 2 door) (67" L) 28.00 78147-1/2 Rocker panel slip-on (62-91 4 door) ( 67"L) 28.00 78140-1/2 Rocker panel slip-on (62-83 pickup ) (48" L) 27.00 78153-1/2 Bedside, lower rear section (exc. pickup) 28.00 anyway,, they carry fuel tanks fenders, sending units, quarter panels, dog leg, and other stuff.. give them a try! PS. I met a guy who said, his uncle will take my Honcho decal, measuer it, and a picture of it, and re produce another one like it, so I can get it painted! anybody need a new honcho decal? R.J. 80 J-10 honcho Huntsville AL ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:21:37 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: Jeeps america? A: How about http://www.jeepamerica.com ? (you need to watch those multipliers!) From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Jeeps america? Well I hope it's soon.. I searched google , and no luck.. Does any body have a number or catalog? R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Huntsville AL USA From: "MARK CONSIGLIO" Subject: Re: Sending unit JEEPSAMERICA IS A STORE IN MASS.THAT HAS ALOT OF SJ AND OTHER HARD TO FIND JEEP PARTS. THEY SHOULD HAVE WEB SITE UP SOON JEEPSAMERICA.COMM YOUR WELCOME MARK C. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:41:34 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJparts] fSM From: john Subject: Re: [FSJparts] fSM On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Keith Butler wrote: >-->anyone know where there is an online version of the factory service manual for an 80 wagoneer. search ebay for one. used bookstores get them, amazon.com can find them you can search amazon.com from my server, would appreciate it, http://wagoneers.com >-->Also please help me identify my tcase. >-->front diff is on drivers side. >-->rear diff is center >-->tcase shift patern is 4 h - 4h locked - n - 4 l - 4 l locked NP 219 Quadratrac, nice unit, full time system. A: The 4 hi locked is nice, but NP208 is still stronger (no viscous coupler to blow up!) >-->ive been told that it is possible to install a twin shift pattern, as well as easy to convert to a dual t case setup. John wrote: not a chance, you have no 2wd mode, don't even think about putting hubs on it. :) A dual transfer case setup would be hard with the full time unit, you'd have to switch to two part time units, or move the NP219 to the final output... A: There isn't a conversion kit made for the NP219 to add another case yet. You have to use Chev NP203/206/208 parts plus some Jeep ones to make it work. >--> >-->Also what would be the best aproach to set this motor to work on propane . Ive heard that propane is higher octane, and needs a higher compression to make it work properly. i would like to build the motor up to run on supreme fuel (92 octane up here i think) at $0.65 a liter as a backup, but run it mostly on propane (130 octane) at $0.35 a liter. Jim Blair has looked into it. I think there are some federal restrictions, not sure, but with the lower energy content of propane, higher costs and hassles of filling it's not all that desireable. If you go that route make it dual-fuel. A: Actually, dual fuel uses MORE gas than straight LPG. No problems with places to fill up in Western Canada or here. The lower energy content is a fiction because LPG requires higher compression (like diesel) to operate properly. The fuel is $0.88 a gallon US where I will be going. I saw that gasoline was less than $1 a gallon in Lynden yesterday! >--> >-->and finaly where does the stregth of the rear AMC 20 axel fall compared to dana 44, ford 8.8 and 9 chrystle 8.x exct?. Is it the same rear end in the lighter jeep with two piece c clips axels, or is it stronger. What is available to strengthen this axel, as it already has a detroit in it, so i dont want to have to start from scrath again on it. John wrote: The AMC 20 is ok, it has a larger ring & pinion than the D44, but the axle tubes can come loose from the pumpkin. In the FSJ it's a one-piece axle. I've had not trouble with mine, but if you're going to do serious wheeling you want to truss it, weld it and skid plate it. :) A: You forgot the one I got from you had the tube pulled out! (It's now for sale for $50 since it's 2.72 ratio and Elmo is gone) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 16:51:17 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: The "Nutter" Bypass http://www.outdoorwire.com/content/4x4/jeep/tech/electrical/jn-ignition99/ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:10:25 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: The Legend of old Billy Blair (Jan03/29 to Feb08/02) Picture a guy who smokes 5 packs a day, hard of hearing and always says "Eh?" Belly hanging, his crotch to his knees and he's forever boiling water for tea. I met Billy Blair while fishing 2 years past, he said, "Son, who in blazes taught you to cast?" "No one," I said. He coughed and sputtered and wiped his face on his sleeve, turned on his heel as if to leave. He turned again and looked me straight in the eye and muttered "you'd do better if you used a black knat fly." He strolled away slowly, puffing away on his smoke, bent over and gave his dog "Jake" a loving poke. He said to old Jake, "this kid's green as a spring bough. Someone's gotta teach him or he'll never learn how." While sitting around the campfire later that night, Ol Bill strolled over and asked if I'd like to learn right. I said, "yeah, you bet." Tomorrow kid, you and me, we gotta date, we're going fishing up to Kappan Lake. We drove on the road, it was more of a trail, three hours of potholes, mud, and a base of loose shale. He talked of fishing days past and threw in a joke to put me at ease, I guess he knew I was scared from the shaking of my knees. "I've been fishing this lake for 27 years" and he casually shifted into one of his lowest gears. Finally we arrived, it was quite a sight. Quiet, serene and just getting light. The mist on the lake was starting to rise and fish were jumping crazy grabbing for flies. I was anxious and eager, I could hardly wait to get my rod ready and get on my bait. Now we were ready, oh, for a strike. No sooner thought, and away my line went, zinging and whistling, my rod halfway bent. This rainbow ran and took even more line, it dove and it jackknifed, but I knew he was mine. Old Billy laughed, said, "relax sonny, he's already in the net. He's all of five pounds, on that I'll take a bet." We caught our limit, boy, what a day! Then old Billy said, "son, let's be on our way." Old Billy gives you the impression he's rugged and tough, but actually he's one of those "diamonds in the rough" He's a guy who would stick with you right to the end, and I'm proud to be able to call him a friend. Last year I returned to fish with great learned care, and who was already camped, but "old Billy Blair." He hollered a greeting and quietly said, "Going fishing tomorrow?" I said, "You bet!" He replied, "See you at six, 'Kappan Kid'." by Scott Gillespie 1989 ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 18:21:42 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: The Legend of old Billy Blair (Jan03/29 to Feb08/02) That was written about my dad (we had his services yesterday) and while it's still pretty tough to write about, I figured I'd pass this on to let people know where I got my love of the outdoors and 4 wheeling from. I hope no-one minded. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:53:12 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Message: 23 ;) reply... (long) At 11:05 PM 2/22/02 +0000, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: >Message: 23 > Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:50:35 -0500 > From: "Dennis Fariello" >Subject: RE: Re: [FSJparts] fSM > > welcome back? ;) where've I been? > > did I take a trip and not leave the farm? ;) > >Oh, you've been so quiet I thought you'd left the big list again >. How've you been? been in digest/web view/post only mode on most lists, the only lists I've even had time to glance at are the ones on digest.net been busier then a one armed paper hanger in a windstorm... dealing with flood damage from the clogged culvert in Dec, trying to keep Jeeps and other vehicles running... getting ready to fly back east to teach another UNIX class... > > will Timex make it? > doubt it, she's still in pieces come on, you can do it... all she needs is a tranny... call an FSJ fest, there's at least two or three folks in your area that will help you lift it into place. :) If Mark Wallace and Michael Lacher are talking about making it, you should too... Mark's Wag has over 225,000 miles on it. Mike Lacher sold his '79 and bought a... a... no, I can't say it... let's just say it's an asian import... and it doesn't have the, as he put it, $#%&*-at-#$Q()% tailgate to deal with. ;) Of course once he fournd out that I solved that problem by getting a J10 I think I set something in motion. :) > > will SuperDawg make it??? > How's the Dawg coming? well, curtis has been trying to get his house deal closed and been battling mortgage companies for months... I think he's going to get back to the project in a month or so. I still need to run up to Canada to get a 23 spline NP242. Although I'm bidding on some totalled cherokees at the same auction place where I picked up the '99 WJ. Only problem is I think they're all 21 spline NP231s. :( I've got an NP219 that just needs an adapter. We've got a chuck of $65 scrap aluminum alloy we can make one out of... If I go with the NP242 I'll want to do the slip yoke eliminator (SYE) and maybe the 4:1 low range... but that's $$$$ :( The SYE alone is close to 3 c notes... I have a buyer back east for the NP219, but it won't cover all the costs... so we'll see what happens. curtis will need about a month to put it all together. I've been gathering parts for years for this project. Have the entire guts out of the '96 Cherokee, except for the xfr case. I bought a totalled '96 xj on ebay, only problem is it had the 5spd/np231... so I found a '96 Aisin Warner tranny up in BC. Should have bought the xfr case at the same time... was trying to avoid the SYE project... oh well... it's nice up there, not far from Eddie Pedersen's place... anyway, I have reservations, vacation scheduled... have plastic, will travel. ;) > > so, are you planning on showing up? Better get a reservation > > pretty soon before space runs out. :) > > Hard to tell. Doesn't look good :-( I've got the vacation >time, I've got the wheels ('85 Seville), don't have the money. Still >going round 'n round over the house, haven't lost it yet, haven't filed >bankruptcy yet. Still puttin' along day by day. I'm thinking that if we got rid of the car payment ('99 WJ) and bought another XJ we'd be able to get ahead of the debt thing... house needs paint... computers need upgrades... always something... the house thing could be real spendy, a two story house with 12/12 pitch roof and a fear of heights means I need to pay someone... If SuperDawg isn't ready showing up in the '99 grand cherokee limited wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen. :) The point is the gathering... of course we'd all prefer it to be FSJ centric... of course some guys, are cheating and TOWING their FSJ's... I won't mention names but his initials are SuperKen... ;) My son was thinking about driving his '77 Cherokee, but at 8 mpg he's not excited about it... that and getting time off from costco doesn't look good. So it looks like me and the wife... hopefully in SuperDawg... A 4.0L HO with an Aisin Warner 4 speed automatic, Selectrac, 3.31's rolling on P235/75 15 Michelin AT's should be quite nice... hoping for close to 20mpg. The '99 WJ with the 4.7L v8 is getting 19.6 mpg! at 70mph!!!! If I had more time and more money I'd consider getting the driveline out of '99 and up WJ for SuperDawg... and those leather, heated, power lumbar seats... man, they'd be nice too... wrecking yard got $1,000 for the seats out of a WJ though... :( > > Mark Wallace got in touch, he might be able to make it too. > > That'd be cool. he's working for Daimler Chrysler in Michigian... he says Chrysler, he said the Daimler part is silent. ;) > > He still has his '81 Wagoneer, 225,000 miles or so on it now... > > I wonder how many of the original list members still have the >same rigs they had at the beginning? Let's see, Mike's still got his. >I've still got Timex. Mike Baxter and Ken W. have their same rigs. Do >you know about the others? Sounds like the start of a good thread. :) SuperKen does. Michael Baxter does, as you've noted... Mark Wallace... Eddie, Mike Lacher, Ron Strouss, and others have sold out... I've only had about 14 since Old Blue. :) (19 total, currently have 3, no, wait 4... forgot about the J10 sitting over at a friends house... the '67 Panel and the '83 J10 are down in Centralia, the '77 is the only one here right now... the '75 J10 is either going to end up as a utility trailer or powered by a Diesel... haven't completely decided yet... ) http://www.wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html > Hi to all. Oh hey, planted veggies last weekend, >they're starting to come up already.... lettuce, cabbage, kohlrabi >(which I've never seen in person, have no idea if I will like, but at a >dime for a bag of seeds I figured why not try?), two varieties of >radishes, all sprouted already. Still waiting on one kind of green bell >pepper, pumpkin, watermelon, carrots, snap beans, um, I forget what else >I've got going on in there. It was fun to plant, didn't take me very >long at all. Tilled it by hand, trucked in about 450 pounds of topsoil >(in bags in the Caddy) and mulch, took me start to finish maybe three >hours, if that long. I was hauling compost/mulch in the back of the '83 Ford Ranger Diesel last weekend... stuff is starting to take off here... we were fighting blackberries on President's Day... trying to get 'em fought back before they take off again. http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/Fotos-2002/backyardview-dec11-2002-1.jpg we removed about half of those blackberries... if the rain lets up tomorrow I may mount another attack... http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/babyllamas.jpg Need to bring the llamas over here for a few days from next door. :) http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/fotomeister/quails-on-gate_.jpg > I was going to plant a lot of flowers today, but it's been >raining most of the day. Maybe by Sunday it'll clear up and I can do >it. Got a couple of trees to plant, too, that we picked up at Wal-Mart >last night - a bottlebrush and a hibiscus. stay tuned... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/fotos/Snohomish-Garden/ I need to work on training material... hopefully my son will haul dirt for my wife tomorrow... > Ah, I could babble about plants all day... Well, since >it's raining, and supposed to rain HARD, tonight and tomorrow all day, >and I've got to work tomorrow, I think I'll go up to AutoZone and get a >wiper motor for the Caddy. >-Doc rain? you get rain? this is what happens when a paving contractor clogs a culvert that has been there for 20 years: this is the "headwaters"... http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/clogged-culvert/drainproblem.jpg some of the results, look at the "concrete bridge"... 4 foot of hanging concrete... still hasn't cracked... http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/clogged-culvert/ALL-Dec16-flood.jpg http://www.wagoneers.com/tmp/clogged-culvert/ later, john - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/UNIX from Snohomish, Washington reminding you not to leave life without Jesus. need a choice of tools? try: http://www.sun.com/staroffice/ ============================================================================= Microsoft Certified Professionals are to the computing industry what McDonald Certified Food Specialists are to gourmet restaurants. Michael Bacarella 3/15/2000 (as seen on http://www.slashdot.com/ ) ============================================================================= ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1574 **************************