From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Mar 10 20:37:16 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, March 10 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1586 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Help! Re: fsj: Re: Help! Re: fsj: Re: Help! fsj: Re: Disk Brakes on DANA-27 and DANA-44 fsj: Wiseman's yard in AZ fsj: Fw: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ? fsj: Fw: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ? fsj: deep pondering fsj: deep pondering fsj: part number needed fsj: Ouray Trails fsj: Getting to Ouray fsj: Re: part number needed fsj: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1810915274: Jeep : Wagoneer Re: fsj: Ouray Trails FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:51:34 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Help! At 07:25 PM 3/9/02 -0800, Barry Campbell wrote: >Hello John, >I own an 81' wagoneer and have a problem. I was driving on the highway and >suddenly i lost all power and coasted to a stop with what seemed like one >or two cylinders still firing. I was able to idle and putt my way to >safety but I am clueless as to what may be the cause. Can you help? >Thank You, >Barry Campbell You didn't mention any ugly rattling or banging noises, so that's a good start. :) Ideas on the malady: - fuel pump, fuel filter clogged, bad gas, out of gas, carb died - ignition module failed, wiring powering ignition module failed - electrical failure in ignition system - camshaft broke (would expect some noise and backfiring) That's about it... if there was any backfiring, smoke or pieces external that should have been internal then things might be different. But this sounds like either a fuel or ignition system failure. If you can look in the carb and operate the throttle and see gas getting squirted in, and smell gas, then the next thing to check is the ignition. Have someone you want to get even with unplug the coil wire and then crank the engine while this victim holds the end of the cable coming out of the coil, recommend having them lean against the engine with the same hand, unless you really don't like them, then have them hold the engine with the opposite hand... ;) Seriously, what you want to do is pull the coil wire and rest it near the engine block and crank... if you see a spark that's a start... question is will it be enough to get the engine going... The fact that you sputtered along indicates that you had some spark... Now, another thought is that you could have jumped a tooth on the timing chain, it might act like this too, and probably wouldn't make any noise... maybe... does it backfire or poof through the carb when you crank it? ok, so, we're looking for fuel and spark. If you have both then we're looking to see if they happen at the right time and the right place. Likely suspects: fuel pump, fuel filter, carb, ignition module, coil, wiring harness, distributor, and related wires, switches and connectors... With out much more info that's my best guess. If there was noise that you didn't mention then things may be more serious... Does it start back up at all? john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:36:07 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Help! timing chain could have skipped too.. R.J. john wrote: > At 07:25 PM 3/9/02 -0800, Barry Campbell wrote: > >Hello John, > >I own an 81' wagoneer and have a problem. I was driving on the highway and > >suddenly i lost all power and coasted to a stop with what seemed like one > >or two cylinders still firing. I was able to idle and putt my way to > >safety but I am clueless as to what may be the cause. Can you help? > >Thank You, > >Barry Campbell > > You didn't mention any ugly rattling or banging noises, so that's a > good start. :) > > Ideas on the malady: > > - fuel pump, fuel filter clogged, bad gas, out of gas, carb died > - ignition module failed, wiring powering ignition module failed > - electrical failure in ignition system > - camshaft broke (would expect some noise and backfiring) > > That's about it... if there was any backfiring, smoke or pieces external > that should have been internal then things might be different. > > But this sounds like either a fuel or ignition system failure. > > If you can look in the carb and operate the throttle and see gas getting > squirted in, and smell gas, then the next thing to check is the ignition. > > Have someone you want to get even with unplug the coil wire and then > crank the engine while this victim holds the end of the cable coming > out of the coil, recommend having them lean against the engine with > the same hand, unless you really don't like them, then have them hold > the engine with the opposite hand... ;) Seriously, what you want > to do is pull the coil wire and rest it near the engine block and > crank... if you see a spark that's a start... question is will it > be enough to get the engine going... > > The fact that you sputtered along indicates that you had some spark... > > Now, another thought is that you could have jumped a tooth on the > timing chain, it might act like this too, and probably wouldn't > make any noise... maybe... does it backfire or poof through the > carb when you crank it? > > ok, so, we're looking for fuel and spark. If you have both then > we're looking to see if they happen at the right time and the right > place. > > Likely suspects: fuel pump, fuel filter, carb, ignition module, > coil, wiring harness, distributor, and related wires, switches > and connectors... > > With out much more info that's my best guess. If there was noise > that you didn't mention then things may be more serious... > > Does it start back up at all? > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 18:37:07 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Help! At 08:36 PM 3/9/02 -0600, R.J. Baynum wrote: >timing chain could have skipped too.. didn't you read all of my ramblings? look near the bottom... ;) he didn't mention any backfiring or poofing coming out of the carb... that makes me think it's ignition related... may have lost the pickup or module... john >R.J. > >john wrote: > > > At 07:25 PM 3/9/02 -0800, Barry Campbell wrote: > > >Hello John, > > >I own an 81' wagoneer and have a problem. I was driving on the highway and > > >suddenly i lost all power and coasted to a stop with what seemed like one > > >or two cylinders still firing. I was able to idle and putt my way to > > >safety but I am clueless as to what may be the cause. Can you help? > > >Thank You, > > >Barry Campbell > > > > You didn't mention any ugly rattling or banging noises, so that's a > > good start. :) > > > > Ideas on the malady: > > > > - fuel pump, fuel filter clogged, bad gas, out of gas, carb died > > - ignition module failed, wiring powering ignition module failed > > - electrical failure in ignition system > > - camshaft broke (would expect some noise and backfiring) > > > > That's about it... if there was any backfiring, smoke or pieces external > > that should have been internal then things might be different. > > > > But this sounds like either a fuel or ignition system failure. > > > > If you can look in the carb and operate the throttle and see gas getting > > squirted in, and smell gas, then the next thing to check is the ignition. > > > > Have someone you want to get even with unplug the coil wire and then > > crank the engine while this victim holds the end of the cable coming > > out of the coil, recommend having them lean against the engine with > > the same hand, unless you really don't like them, then have them hold > > the engine with the opposite hand... ;) Seriously, what you want > > to do is pull the coil wire and rest it near the engine block and > > crank... if you see a spark that's a start... question is will it > > be enough to get the engine going... > > > > The fact that you sputtered along indicates that you had some spark... > > > > Now, another thought is that you could have jumped a tooth on the > > timing chain, it might act like this too, and probably wouldn't > > make any noise... maybe... does it backfire or poof through the > > carb when you crank it? > > > > ok, so, we're looking for fuel and spark. If you have both then > > we're looking to see if they happen at the right time and the right > > place. > > > > Likely suspects: fuel pump, fuel filter, carb, ignition module, > > coil, wiring harness, distributor, and related wires, switches > > and connectors... > > > > With out much more info that's my best guess. If there was noise > > that you didn't mention then things may be more serious... > > > > Does it start back up at all? > > > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 23:19:57 EST From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Disk Brakes on DANA-27 and DANA-44 >Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 12:27:37 -0800 >From: "Faith Jeff" > >Has anyone ever put disk brakes on a DANA-27 (front axle)? > >What about a DANA-44 rear?? > >I'm trying to be ready for Ouray...not sure if I'll be road-worthy in time. I've not heard of anyone putting discs on a Dana 27. There is a disc kit available for CJ open knuckle Dana 30s that you might be able to modify to work -- if you'd feel safe with CJ brakes. The best answer is to swap to a later model Dana 44 that already has discs. One thing to bear in mind is that as a general Jeep rule, disc brakes are gonna come with 6 lug bolts rather than your current 5 lug pattern. Unless you swap both axles for 3/4 ton, 8 bolt hardware, you're gonna have to decide whether you want to modify the front to match your 5 bolt rear or the rear to match your 6 bolt front. I've done the research on swapping the front 6-bolt pattern to 5-bolt, but haven't actually done it. If you decide to go that way I can help you with the details. I think both Warn and Stainless Steel Brakes have Dana 44 rear disc conversion kits. I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but you asked -- sorta. Based on the lift and other mods you've made it sounds like your building a big-tired off-road beast. Over the years the consensus of the lists has been that the Dana 27 and Dana 30 just aren't up to that kind of punishment. If you don't want your axles to be the weak link, upgradeing to 3/4 ton axles will probably be in order. Your 8" lift and big tires are going to significantly raise the center of gravity on what is already a proportionally narrow vehicle. If you got wider, 3/4 ton axles it would help offset the rollover potential. 'Course then you'd have to figure out how to mount flares to cover those rear tires so you're not getting pulled over every couple of miles. If it was my truck I'd keep the Dana 27, tune up it's drum brakes, and settle for a little less lift/tire. The drums will stop pretty well when they're working right. You just can't get away with riding them all the time like you can with discs. The combination of closed knuckles and drum brakes is hard to beat in the mud. If you're serious about building an off-road monster, then you need to get hooked up with SuperKen and let him tell you what he's learned building his '67 Super Wagoneer. I don't know if he's still on any of the FSJ lists anymore or not, but I heard he's planning to be in Ouray. Maybe someone reading this will know how to get in touch with him. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 21:13:14 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Wiseman's yard in AZ A: A lot of vintage iron there. Didn't look for FSJs yet. http://www.wisemansalvage.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:49:08 -0600 From: "Tim Lynn \(jeepbum\)" Subject: fsj: Fw: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ? I just couldn't help myself...had to send it to everyone! Subject: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ? It took me a while to figure this out. I had to look very close, but eventually the penny dropped . Keep your sound up , the music is very very soft. look close at the table!! Tim Lynn jeepbum77-at-hotmail.com tlynn-at-sheltonbbs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:49:08 -0600 From: "Tim Lynn \(jeepbum\)" Subject: fsj: Fw: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ? I just couldn't help myself...had to send it to everyone! Subject: WHATS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE ? It took me a while to figure this out. I had to look very close, but eventually the penny dropped . Keep your sound up , the music is very very soft. look close at the table!! Tim Lynn jeepbum77-at-hotmail.com tlynn-at-sheltonbbs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:57:02 -0600 From: "Tim Lynn \(jeepbum\)" Subject: fsj: deep pondering I'm thinking about taking the well running 401 out of my 77' J-10 and putting it in my 83' Chero Chief with the ailing, smoking high-mileage 360. The 77 has a 401, the 83' has a ?(727 or 999) someone refresh me/ It's at the other house untill I drag it over on Sun or Mon. Am I gonna have any mahoj problems with this idea? I'm in a smog exempt are(small town) so that won't be a problem. Will I have to switch the trannys? If so would I be happier with the BW1339 or the NP that is in the 83'? If I switch them, would I have a problem switching out basically the entire running gear? Tim Lynn jeepbum77-at-hotmail.com tlynn-at-sheltonbbs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:57:02 -0600 From: "Tim Lynn \(jeepbum\)" Subject: fsj: deep pondering I'm thinking about taking the well running 401 out of my 77' J-10 and putting it in my 83' Chero Chief with the ailing, smoking high-mileage 360. The 77 has a 401, the 83' has a ?(727 or 999) someone refresh me/ It's at the other house untill I drag it over on Sun or Mon. Am I gonna have any mahoj problems with this idea? I'm in a smog exempt are(small town) so that won't be a problem. Will I have to switch the trannys? If so would I be happier with the BW1339 or the NP that is in the 83'? If I switch them, would I have a problem switching out basically the entire running gear? Tim Lynn jeepbum77-at-hotmail.com tlynn-at-sheltonbbs.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:53:41 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: fsj: part number needed Does anyone know the part number for the EGR tube for an '83 Cherokee 6 cyl? (John, do you have that around still? Ernie needs the fitting I was supposed to get back that screws into the exhaust manifold) ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:02:06 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: Ouray Trails Thought this might be interesting, as it lists a number of trails in the Ouray area, and their status, http://bushducks.com/tripreps/passopen.htm - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:39:43 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: Getting to Ouray Has anyone taken the road/trail between Lake City, CO, and Ouray ? On Mapquest, looks like it goes from Lake City to Henson Creek to Capitol City, to meeting up with a trail numbered 17, then 18, which follows Mineral Creek and will take you to Climax Creek on 550, a couple miles south of Ouray. Is this a good trail to take? What kind of road surface is it ? Looks like it might save several miles for anyone coming from the southeast, not wanting to go to Durango. also, how should we tune our jeeps to take advantage of the Colorado elevation ? - - Landon ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 13:17:48 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: part number needed I'm sure it's down with SuperDawg and Rambo. However, my son is going to buy a 258 for his '77 Cherokee. So any 258 parts I have will probably want to come home. :) My son's 360 is getting around 6 mpg now... I'm trying to tell him it's the stupid holley carb... the power valve probably blew... that and the distributor may have been swapped out, we can't seem to get a cap that works properly... you still have info on that ford distr conversion for the 360s? or is it on my server already... rofl... I'm in the middle of a major computer crisis... my primary PC (win98) was having trouble so on the advice of some friends that actually admit to being microsoft professionals I "upgraded" to win2k... lost the modem, the network, the CD burner and a few other things... I bought new and improved components, and it still isn't working... So I started to load Linux... then I discovered that the video card I got from my son's system has a problem. So I took back the new modem, nic and 256M of ram back and got a cheap video card so I can finish the Linux install. Oh, in order to salvage my files I bought a USB 40Gig hard drive, set it up on my win98 laptop then connected it to my desktop system that was limping along on w2k and copied all my files over. So at this point every ancillary device I have is Win98, Mac and Linux compatible. my laptop, actually my work system, will continue to trudge along with w98 - memory problems and all, my desktop will go to Lycoris Linux (or maybe RedHat), and I'll get a Mac iBook and build a wireless network. I'll also have an HP-UX 11i system setup that will be my primary storage (72 gigs), providing access by Samba and PPP... :) john At 07:53 AM 3/10/02 -0800, James Blair wrote: >Does anyone know the part number for the EGR tube for an '83 Cherokee 6 >cyl? (John, do you have that around still? Ernie needs the fitting I was >supposed to get back that screws into the exhaust manifold) > >************************************* >JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 Comanche >http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ >Black Jack's before pic: >http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG************************************** > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:45:34 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1810915274: Jeep : Wagoneer this was up in bellingham... didn't it go for about $2,000 less than a year ago? My son is selling his 360, or trading for a 258... so bid away... also he has a 460/C6 willing to sell, or trade for a good 258... john At 04:04 PM 3/10/02 -0800, brazzadog-at-aol.com wrote: >I saw this item for sale at AOL at eBay Motors, The World's Online >Marketplace TM, and thought that you might be interested. > >Title of item: Jeep : Wagoneer >Seller: lrodrigues-at-careage.com >Starts: Mar-06-02 14:03:22 PST >Ends: Mar-13-02 14:03:22 PST >Price: Currently $500.00 >To bid on the item, go >to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1810915274 > > >Item Description: > > > >NR Beauty of a Mechanics Special Wagoneer > > > > > > > >Vehicle Description > > > > >This was previously owned by an auto body student. There has been over >$4500 worth of restoration work done to it. New paint (sparkle purple), >rebuilt top end, new driveline, Edlebrock carb/manifold, Rancho adjustable >shocks, new front end (tie rods, steering knuckle, drag link), new >carpeted flooring. The interior is 99% done, interest was lost when >putting vinyl flames into the interior carpet of the doors and also didn't >case the cabin ceiling carpet completely. Get's a lot of second looks and >comments. Good body, no rust. It's packing a V8, 360 that had less than >50,000 miles on it when it decided to give me grief. I am not sure what >the problem is, perhaps bearing problems. It could also need the bottom >end rebuilt? It starts - turns over. The rear brakes, master cylinder, >rear driveshaft u joints and the differential yoke to the driveline have >been replaced. The rear tailgate has been welded shut before it was >painted. Nice and smooth. The picture show bucket seats in! > the front, but the bench seat has been put back in. Very comfortable > ride. Woman owner that just doesn't have the time to put into getting it > going. Buyer must pick it up or arrange the shipping. Winning bidder > must contact me within 3 days after close, a 20% nonrefundable deposit is > required within 1 week and remaining full payment to be received within > 14 days of auction end. Please email me if you have any questions. It is > a beautiful jeep with tons of potential, but is being sold as is. > Additional information or pictures can be arranged through email. Good > luck bidding. I accept money order, cash, or paypal. I will not accept > bids from people that have negative or no feedback. Been burned before > so don't bother if this applies to you. > > > > > > > > >Vehicle Condition > > > > > > > > > >Terms of Sale > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:19:02 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Ouray Trails As of last year.;) noticed it is mostly Land rovers? Land rovers are good .. but hey.. let's not go overboard about them... R.J. darn pompous arrogant cheeky Brits!!... Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: > Thought this might be interesting, as it lists a number of trails in the Ouray area, and their status, > > http://bushducks.com/tripreps/passopen.htm > > - Landon ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1586 **************************