From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Mar 14 07:29:01 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, March 14 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1590 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: RE: Steering box fsj: RE: Steering box found... Replacement Procedures Re: fsj: transfer case thinking Re: fsj: Steering box found.. Re: fsj: 63 Willys fsj: buckle up and... fsj: [FSJparts] FSJ's Are Saved ! Scrappage is Defeated! (fwd) fsj: Flexplate fsj: Why ruin a good car, sorry had to send this Re: fsj: Steering box? fsj: Re: Steering box Re: fsj: Steering box found.. Re: fsj: Flexplate Re: fsj: Steering box? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:26:55 -0800 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: RE: Steering box you'll probably need a pitman arm puller to get the arm off...i picked one up for 15 bucks at autozone. they rent them too...(buy and return) This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:37:59 -0800 From: "Terrill, Patrick" Subject: fsj: RE: Steering box found... Replacement Procedures This applies to 80-87 FSJ, but should be similar for all of them. As Brad said it's an easy job, EXCEPT for removing the pitman arm. I've even broken a puller on a few. 1. Disconnect lines from gear. Plug lines to prevent entry of dirt and keep lines raised to avoid excessive fluid loss. 2. Remove clamp bolt and nut attaching flex coupling to steering gear shaft and disconnect intermediate shaft. 3. Paint alignment marks on pitman shaft and pitman arm for assembly reference, then remove and discard the pitman arm nut and lockwasher. Use new nut and lockwasher. 4. Remove pitman using a puller. 5. Remove steering gear to frame mounting bolts and remove steering gear. 6. Reverse procedure to install. Apply Loctite 271 or equivalent to mounting bracket to steering gear bolts and to steering gear to frame bolts. Torque steering gear to frame bolts to 75 ft. lbs., the mounting bracket to steering gear bolts to 70 ft. lbs., the flex coupling clamp bolt to 30 ft. lbs., the intermediate shaft coupling to steering gear bolt to 45 lbs. and the pitman arm nut to 185 ft. lbs. Patrick 70 Wagoneer - -----Original Message----- From: R.J. Baynum [mailto:cyberphoenix-at-qwestonline.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 11:52 AM To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com Cc: CFSJA-at-yahoogroups.com; 1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com; fsj-at-digest.net; fsj_se-at-yahoogroups.com Subject: fsj: Steering box found.. Thanks Brad for the info! I am going to enlist a friend of mine before I get started.... He is,.. I should say, More inclined then me, and less apt to break or lose a part, and understands hydralics,.. in this uncharted area.. Oh, Zack... Where do I find the part about replacing the steering box, in the FSM? like the step by step? Or would the Haines or Chilton be better for me? The FSM, is not that easy for me ( a newbie) to figure out what is what and where, in what section.. plus it is loose leaf in a binder, and xeroxed, so the print is hard to read.... Not a very good Quality .. Thanks guys! R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Huntsville AL. Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:25:29 -0800 (PST) From: Brad Shupe Subject: Re: Steering box? R. J. Well I can answer part of your question because currently I have my Steering gear laying on the garage floor with the pitman arm still attached. Removal of everything except the pitman arm is shall I dare say "easy". I have still yet to break the pitman arm loose. I did work on it last Saturday but I think I will now wait until my little finger heals a bit from the break before I proceed. If you thought you heard a strange noise in you neck of the woods Saturday say about 2:00 it was likely me swearing. That should give you an idea of what I have run into. Others say they have changed several without a real problem. Guess mine it just really stuck from time and area. You can get a replacement from AutoZone for $159. It has a lifetime guarantee. The core charge is as much as the one you buy so unless you have $300 bucks in your pocket take your old one when you pick up the new one. Good Luck Brad Shupe 84 Grand Wagoneer East TN ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:53:34 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: transfer case thinking A: I think the best way would be to use an extension housing off a 727 4x4 and machine it down to the bolt pattern. This will give you a clean, perfect fit adapter with minimal machinework. With the NP219 you could put it in 4 hi lock and undo the hubs to get 2WD. While we're on the subject of cases, does anyone know if the NP207 in my '87 XJ (with 2.5L AX5) is 21 or 23 spline? If it's 21 spline, will the input gear work in my NP208 so I can have a stronger case for my MJ? I'm considering putting hubs on the D60-2 axle I'm going to put in so I can switch front to rear w/o pulling driveshafts. From: john re: SuperDawg project (83 J10 Stepside) subject: transfer case selection - NP219 vs NP242 issue: mating Aisin Warner 30-80LE 4 speed overdrive and 4.0L out of '96 xj to a transfer case. (23 spline output shaft that is different then the TorqueFlite 727's common to FSJs) options: A) NP219 B) NP242 option A benefits: - already have the NP219 - doesn't require SYE - have the correct drivelines from another J10 - full time quadratrac operation (without special fluid or binding) - works with existing (NP208) lever - eliminates problems with traction on wet roads - fully locked mode in both high and low range option A drawbacks: - need to make custom adapter "sleeve" - have material - NP219 only used a couple of years - makes my new hubs only "decorative", for the most part - no 2wd mode - fuel economy loss because of full time? option B benefits: - 2wd option - 4wd part time and full time - fuel economy??? - wouldn't require an adapter to mate to trans - good xfr case overall - plentiful option B drawbacks: - don't have one, around $300 - uses Slip Yoke - will require driveshaft mods to rear? - will want a SYE - about $270 to $300 - vacuum operated, always been a pain to engage - will want 4:1 gear$$$ too... :) I guess the question boils down to whether I really want to have 2wd as an option. Since it rains about 9 months of the year here and a pickup is usually light in the rear, it makes more sense to have the Quadratrac xfr case, especially since I already have it... only need to have a piece machined. This will save me around $600 to $800 too... guess when you do the math it becomes a no-brainer... :) Unless the fuel economy gains would offset the costs... if it's 1 mpg I guess I'd have to drive for a long, long time to make up even $500... :) I guess leaving the hubs on won't hurt anything. If I ever need to I can disconnect them for towing and just remove the rear shaft... and I could always put it in emergency drive and disconnect the front hubs for "2wd"... So I guess going with the NP219 makes sense... :) later, john ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 MJ http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:09:02 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: Steering box found.. A: Follow this order and you should be fine. First, remove the pitman arm from the steering linkage, then put a drain pan under the box, then undo the lines and let it drain (If you match up the new lines to be sure they will work, you can cut and pinch them to use as plugs to keep the oil in the box) Then you undo the rag joint (the rubber section in the steering column) and undo the bolts holding it to the frame (if you still have a comealong hooked to the garage ceiling, you could lower the box with that. It's a tad heavy) Then you remove the pump and swap parts (pulley swapping is a pain!) From: "R.J. Baynum" Thanks Brad for the info! I am going to enlist a friend of mine before I get started.... He is,.. I should say, More inclined then me, and less apt to break or lose a part, and understands hydralics,.. in this uncharted area.. Oh, Zack... Where do I find the part about replacing the steering box, in the FSM? like the step by step? Or would the Haines or Chilton be better for me? The FSM, is not that easy for me ( a newbie) to figure out what is what and where, in what section.. plus it is loose leaf in a binder, and xeroxed, so the print is hard to read.... Not a very good Quality .. Thanks guys! R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Huntsville AL. ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 MJ http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:13:36 -0800 (PST) From: Carnuck-at-webtv.net (James Blair) Subject: Re: fsj: 63 Willys A: Check the spring pads for width to see if the rears match up. The fronts on a '63 may be spaced differently too. From: "Faith Jeff" I picked up those axles last night...from a full size blazer...disks in front and drums in back. 410 gears. 6 lug. I also changed my on-order springs to be spring-over in the front, so I'll have less of an arch on those springs which I guess is a good thing...got that done in time. they hadn't started building them yet. My new headers arrived the other day too. Got some Hedmans that are for a Wrangler-GM350 setup. They're small enough to not be in the way of the front driveshaft...I'll have to sell the others to a 2wd truck or car owner....they're pretty really nice...but I cant use em ya know...they came with the 350, so i'm not out cost of two sets which is also good. So with any luck, I'll have springs in my hands by daylight savings time, and should be able to bolt in the new axles at that time...no reason to do it earlier. maybe I can put in all the exhaust stuff in the mean time. later, jeff ************************************* JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 MJ http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ Black Jack's before pic: http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:56:12 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: buckle up and... drive an SUV... ... for safety... article points out that Washington State has more SUV's then people living in Seattle... :) http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/transportation/62071_truck13.shtml ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:57:09 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: [FSJparts] FSJ's Are Saved ! Scrappage is Defeated! (fwd) those of us with older vehicles might appreciate this... :) john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: JP SCRAPPAGE IS DEFEATED ON U.S. SENATE FLOOR ! Attention SEMA Action Network: Thank you all for your hard work in opposing, and now defeating, the old car scrappage provision in the Energy Policy Act of 2002 (Section 822 of S. 517). In case you haven't heard the news, Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell's (R-CO) amendment to eliminate scrappage from the legislation was - astonishingly enough - passed by unanimous consent. In the end, even the principal sponsor of the scrappage provision, Senator Jeff Bingaman (D-NM), was not willing to oppose the Campbell amendment! This is fantastic work, work that would not have been possible without the literally thousands of phone calls, faxes, emails and letters to U.S. Senators that SEMA Action Network vehicle clubs and individual enthusiasts were able to muster. Hobbyist efforts were cited by Senator Campbell and Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) as a compelling force in defeating this scrappage provision. SEMA sincerely thanks everyone for their dedication, hard work, and willingness to protect the vehicle hobby today and to preserve for it for our children. This is an amazing victory and a testament to the powerful connection between the specialty aftermarket automotive industry and the American vehicle hobbyist community. Job well done. Brian Caudill Director of Public Affairs Specialty Equipment Market Association - ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Access Your PC from Anywhere Full setup in 2 minutes! - Free Download http://us.click.yahoo.com/pmECdA/2XkDAA/DIxGAA/unTolB/TM - ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: FSJparts-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:52:35 -0800 From: "Brian Turner" Subject: fsj: Flexplate Hi all, my nephew came up north to visit. Well his 78 Wagoneer started making bad rat tat tat noise. Got under neath and pulled the cover on the transmission. The flex plate is broken. Two things; one: is it easier to pull the motor forward or two: drop the axles and pull the transmission back. Also where is a good place to find the flex plate. It is a standard 360 with two barrel and th400 trans. And as soon as I sell my T-bird will start rebuilding the engine in the Cherokee. Thanks Brian 73 Wagoneer 78 Cherokee ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:33:15 -0800 From: "Brian Turner" Subject: fsj: Why ruin a good car, sorry had to send this Subject: why [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/jpeg which had a name of why.jpg] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 22:30:57 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Steering box? R.J., I have a leaker that I just don't want to mess with re-sealing, as it has over 185000 on it anyway. Mine does the same as yours re: the hard to steer cold bit and it is because the fluid keeps running low. When it is down more than half a quart it gets cranky...so I too have a new steering gear box on my March Parts List. I just checked NapaOnline the other day and it shows at about $170.00. AutoZone is about the same, maybe a little less, but I don't like them much. I haven't had great luck with some things I have gotten there. Jim Blair should give us some word on this... maybe someone else.... Are discount parts-house refurbs good enough? Is there a good, better, best we should look for in brand name? Better yet, brand names to run from? JeepNut "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > > Okay, before I make a big goose chase I may not have to.. > Before I drive 1500 miles to Ouray.. I feel the desperate and the safety needs, > to be working on the considerable play in the steering wheel on my 80 J-10 > Honcho.. > I feel the looseness in the front end when I drive at higher speeds, which is > starting to scare me! > Controlling is becoming a big issue at interstate speeds.. and I have 10.5 ..33" > tires and 4.09 gears at stock height ! > I really need sure footed stability! > Yes, I have already adjusted it, as best as it will go.. it is just plain worned > out.. It travels about 3 to 4 inches before it starts to turn.. and at highway > speeds, say 70 on the interstate, bumping along, it is like wrestling a boa > constrictor, that likes to wiggle.. > plus the powers steering pump's hoses are slightly wet.. but not a big deal.. But > one thing i did notice in the cold mornings, the loss of power steering briefly, > until you twist the steering wheel > a few hard times , then the power returns.. why.. > I do not know.. > > But I think it might be a good idea to replace the worn out gears in the steering > box.. or the whole box all together.. > > So.. where do I go to get the parts.. and how hard is this job to do? > > Thanks for any help! > > R.J. > Huntsville AL. > 80 J-10 honcho - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:05:09 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: fsj: Re: Steering box hmmm.. not a bad idea.... R.J. Faith Jeff wrote: > you'll probably need a pitman arm puller to get the arm off...i picked one > up for 15 bucks at autozone. they rent them too...(buy and return) > > This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. > > If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:27:03 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Steering box found.. Well it's not a come along , it's a chain hoist.. Is the box really that heavy? I am not looking forward to the pulley though..;0) Thanks jim.. R.J. James Blair wrote: > A: Follow this order and you should be fine. First, remove the pitman > arm from the steering linkage, then put a drain pan under the box, then > undo the lines and let it drain (If you match up the new lines to be > sure they will work, you can cut and pinch them to use as plugs to keep > the oil in the box) > Then you undo the rag joint (the rubber section in the steering > column) and undo the bolts holding it to the frame (if you still have a > comealong hooked to the garage ceiling, you could lower the box with > that. It's a tad heavy) > Then you remove the pump and swap parts (pulley swapping is a pain!) > > From: "R.J. Baynum" > > Thanks Brad for the info! > I am going to enlist a friend of mine before I get started.... He > is,.. I should say, More inclined then me, and less apt to break or lose > a part, and understands hydralics,.. in this uncharted area.. > Oh, Zack... Where do I find the part about replacing the steering box, > in the FSM? like the step by step? Or would the Haines or Chilton be > better for me? The FSM, is not that easy for me ( a newbie) to figure > out what is what and where, in what section.. plus it is loose leaf in a > binder, and xeroxed, so the print is hard to read.... > Not a very good Quality .. > Thanks guys! > R.J. > 80 J-10 Honcho > Huntsville AL. > > ************************************* > JimBlair, Seattle,WA '84 J10, '86 MJ > http://www.geocities.com/eaglemania2002/ > Black Jack's before pic: > http://wagoneers.com/JEEPS/FESTS/Snohomish-April2-2000/PIC00004.JPG > ************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:02:12 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Flexplate Try the Junk yards.. Remember your the quadra tracs, so any wag, or cherokee or J truck, in those years will do 73-79, the 360 engine , and the 400 GM hydromatic tranny was the only option, and as was the standard Borg Warner Qaudra Trac transfer case, all wheel drive system, that has the E Vac switch in the glove box, that locks up both differentials at once.. It is my understanding.. R.J. Brian Turner wrote: > Hi all, my nephew came up north to visit. Well his 78 Wagoneer started making > bad rat tat tat noise. Got under neath and pulled the cover on the > transmission. The flex plate is broken. Two things; one: is it easier to pull > the motor forward or two: drop the axles and pull the transmission back. Also > where is a good place to find the flex plate. It is a standard 360 with two > barrel and th400 trans. And as soon as I sell my T-bird will start rebuilding > the engine in the Cherokee. Thanks Brian > > 73 Wagoneer > 78 Cherokee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 00:20:07 -0600 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Steering box? No kidding? okay.. what is a good brand then? I would rather buy a good one and have it cost a little more but it work right and last the first time out of the box.. with a Warranty too is that too much to ask? Yes, I know you guys are thinking.." What a sucker.. There is one born every minute.." as P.T .Barnum would say... But hey.. experience shows me this is true, you pay for what you get, most of the time if you are not careful.. JeepNut wrote: > R.J., I have a leaker that I just don't want to mess with re-sealing, as it > has over 185000 on it anyway. Mine does the same as yours re: the hard to > steer cold bit and it is because the fluid keeps running low. When it is > down more than half a quart it gets cranky...so I too have a new steering > gear box on my March Parts List. I just checked NapaOnline the other day > and it shows at about $170.00. AutoZone is about the same, maybe a little > less, but I don't like them much. I haven't had great luck with some > things I have gotten there. > Jim Blair should give us some word on this... maybe someone else.... > Are discount parts-house refurbs good enough? > Is there a good, better, best we should look for in brand name? > Better yet, brand names to run from? > JeepNut > > "R.J. Baynum" wrote: > > > > Okay, before I make a big goose chase I may not have to.. > > Before I drive 1500 miles to Ouray.. I feel the desperate and the safety needs, > > to be working on the considerable play in the steering wheel on my 80 J-10 > > Honcho.. > > I feel the looseness in the front end when I drive at higher speeds, which is > > starting to scare me! > > Controlling is becoming a big issue at interstate speeds.. and I have 10.5 ..33" > > tires and 4.09 gears at stock height ! > > I really need sure footed stability! > > Yes, I have already adjusted it, as best as it will go.. it is just plain worned > > out.. It travels about 3 to 4 inches before it starts to turn.. and at highway > > speeds, say 70 on the interstate, bumping along, it is like wrestling a boa > > constrictor, that likes to wiggle.. > > plus the powers steering pump's hoses are slightly wet.. but not a big deal.. But > > one thing i did notice in the cold mornings, the loss of power steering briefly, > > until you twist the steering wheel > > a few hard times , then the power returns.. why.. > > I do not know.. > > > > But I think it might be a good idea to replace the worn out gears in the steering > > box.. or the whole box all together.. > > > > So.. where do I go to get the parts.. and how hard is this job to do? > > > > Thanks for any help! > > > > R.J. > > Huntsville AL. > > 80 J-10 honcho > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1590 **************************