From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu May 16 23:19:59 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Friday, May 17 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1644 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: [Re: fsj: Re: Re: Auto Trans!] fsj: 85 J10 For Sale - GREAT BUY fsj: Full Size Jeep Invasion Newsletter [V2/I2] Re: fsj: Cherokee Chief conversion fsj: Door Lock Solenoids fsj: Arm Rests fsj: Re: [Door Lock Solenoids] Re: fsj: Re: [Door Lock Solenoids] fsj: Re: what a large site fsj: Re: Grand Wagoneer fsj: RE: Door Lock Solenoids fsj: Re: More ProJ headaches. FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:36:49 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: Re: [Re: fsj: Re: Re: Auto Trans!] The tranny shop guy I talked to yesterday said he was 70% sure that the shfit kit he was looking at putting into my trans would allow it to flow in park. Thanks for the great tips, Ken! Michael Ken Gaines wrote: > Jim is THE MAN when it comes to diagnosing transmissions. I put a TF727 in my > AMC 360 powered CJ7...when it started doing some really strange stuff at > highway speeds, he told me what the problem was almost immediately. I ended up > rebuilding the transmission and it is working very well right now. I do believe > there is a way to make the TF727 pass fluid to the cooler when in Park, but I > don't know all the details. The TF727 will, contrary to popular belief) bolt > DIRECTLY to a Dana 300 transfer case. > One friend on another list let me in on a little secret or two about these > transmissions. They were designed to live in the hellish environment behind a > 426 Hemi and had different shift points than those in our trusty FSJ's have. If > you want to quicken/stiffen up the 1-2 upshift, call the Mopar Performance > dealership and ask for the front band lever for a 727 that was in a Hemi Cuda > or the like. The ratio is considerably different (something like 5.2:1 vs our > 4.1 ratio arm) and it will apparently quicken your shifts quite noticeably. I > haven't been able to find that part number down here in South Texas yet, but I > have feelers out for it. Another neat little tidbit about them is that there > were actually 2 of these transmissions built for trucks (not just FSJs). There > was the heavy duty model of the TF727 that had one more clutch disc than the > one in our FSJ's has. When rebuilding mine, I found that I only had 7 clutch > discs in my transmission while the kit included 8 discs. > One more thing then I will quit. When I was installing the TF727 in my CJ, I > discovered (unfortunately) that the stock kickdown linkage (from the FSJ) will > not work if the tranny is installed in a CJ5/7/8 because it binds on the brake > proportioning valve located on the driver's side frame rail. So, what does this > mean to an FSJ owner? Well, there is a way to fix this and it works a LOT > better than the stock kickdown linkage does. Lokar Performance produces a > stainless-steel braided cable setup for the TF727 kickdown that fixes all the > glitches in the OEM linkage. The instructions that come with the kit are really > good and adjusting it is nothing. It takes about 20 minutes to accomplish this > upgrade. It requires that you simply bolt one bracket to the accel cable > support and one to the OEM t-case adapter. You also have to enlarge the hole > that holds the OEM fastener to the carb throttle bellcrank. Once you have the > cable installed and attached to the tranny lever, have a friend hold the cable > such that the kickdown lever is fully open, open the throttle all the way, and > crank down on the barrel nut that slides on the cable. The results are more > than worth the effort. > Have fun. I hope you get it working right soon. > O)||||||(O > Ken > > > "Life is a journey that's measured not in miles or years, but in experiences" > -Jimmy Buffett > "A Pirate Looks at Fifty" > 1998 - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 14:11:56 -0700 From: William Prince Subject: fsj: 85 J10 For Sale - GREAT BUY My 85 J10 4X4 is For Sale - GREAT BUY! THIS IS A NICE TRUCK! Solid, no rust body, prefect glass! Minor normal dings on tailgate. 413 Chrysler Industrial/Motor Home Motor (40k miles - No Smog Stuff on motor), 727 Trans w/Transfer Case (both were rebuilt last year), NICE Aluminum Hweels w/30x9.50x15 Wrangler Tires (1000 miles), Nice Seats from a 91 Chevy S10, AM/FM/CD Player, Custom Tonneau Cover, Electric Fuels Pump, 750cfm Edelbrock Carb, No Heater (aftermarket one is $145.00), B&M Z-Gate Shifter, etc. etc. Truck's chassis has about 50k on it. Can use minor fixin's that do not affect it's looks or running. Have over $6000.00 invested. Am buying Car Carrier so I will sell ate a bargain price of $3500.00! Try to find one this nice for that price! First one with the cash gets it. If you are not a serioius buyer or don't have the money don't respond. See the truck and it's details at my website http://www.wprince.com . If you are ready to buy, give me a phone call most anytime. William Prince Las Vegas, Nv (702)248-4183 Email: wprince-at-wprince.com LVR Solo II SUPERSITE: http://www.wprince.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 15:48:52 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: fsj: Full Size Jeep Invasion Newsletter [V2/I2] - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2002 FULL SIZE JEEP INVASION NEWSLETTER - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - May 15, 2002 Volume 2, Issue 2 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - REGISTRATION The best news yet is that registration has now opened for life- time members of CFSJA and will be opening for those who are pre- registered on Saturday, May 18. You will receive an email message with a URL enclosed that will allow you to enter all your registration information and order BBQ tickets and T-Shirts. The good news is that you won't have to re-enter any of the information you supplied when you pre- registered. Convenient, eh? Once again, registration flat fee is $40 per vehicle until June 15, 2002 and goes up to $50 afterwards. T-shirts can be ordered for $17 and BBQ tickets are $15 for adults and $7.50 for kids 12 and under which includes tip and tax. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - T-SHIRTS Designs for the 2002 T-Shirt are nearing completion and the big unveiling will occur on May 18, 2002 when registration for the pre-registered masses opens. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - LODGING We have received word that another four-wheeling group will be in the area during the middle of August so you better act fast and get your campgrounds or hotels reserved right away. We have rooms reserved at Comfort Inn with group rates and we also have group rates at Best Western Twin Peaks and Ouray Victorian Inn. Mention CFSJA for the discount. It sounds as though the local KOA is starting to fill up quickly, so don't hesistate. There are other RV parks and campgrounds in the area such as the 4J+1+1 and Amphitheater Campground. Silverton has accomodations as well. You may also want to check Ridgeway. Check our website under the Planner section for more information on Lodging. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - VOLUNTEERS NEEDED If you're pretty sure you'll be in town for the Invasion and you can spare a few hours in evening or an hour in the morning to help us man the sign-in table, please email jcjones-at-webgcs.net and tell him what evening and time you will be available. We currently have openings between 7pm and 9pm Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday evenings and 7am to 8am Thursday, Friday, and Saturday mornings. Don't worry, the job will be simple and we'll be sure to provide you with all the information and training you need. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4x4WIRE.COM The online news magazine 4x4wire.com has stepped up to cover the 2002 FSJ Invasion and will be donating some t-shirts for prizes. Please visit http://www.4x4wire.com/ and bookmark it so you can check back later. Also don't miss editor Terry Howe's Invasion J-truck project at http://www.4x4wire.com/4x4/jeep/projects/invasion/ [end] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 18:49:34 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Cherokee Chief conversion A: The Bronco axles will be narrower than the FSJ From: Ken Gaines Subject: fsj: Cherokee Chief conversion Well, I have yet another FSJ project going now. It is a 1978 (I think) Cherokee Chief...AMC 360, TH400, Dana 20 (I think) t/c...Dana 44 axles. The rear driveshaft was definitely at a compound angle before I removed it for my CJ7. Now that it is pretty much dismantled, I need a little advice on how to do the swap we have envisioned... My father-in-law has this old Bronco frame that we are cannibalizing for parts. It has a great running 351M, C6 trans, NP208 t/c, Dana 44F, Ford 9" rear (I wanted the Ford 9" for my CJ, but the father-in-law wouldn't allow it). We want to put this driveline into the Cherokee Chief along with the front coil spring suspension and Ford steering components. Has anyone else ever attempted this sort of swap? If so, let me in on any lessons learned. This is shaping up to be a LOT of work and even more improvisation. Thanks in advance guys... Ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:01:49 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Door Lock Solenoids Hey guys, lesson learned to share. I picked up on a thread about a potential cheap replacement door lock solenoid. All Electronics has a $5.00 solenoid so I thought I'd check them out...but unless someone out there can tell me something I hadn't figured out yet... These solenoids only pull in. And they are quite strong, but they don't push out. I thought maybe reversed polarity would shoot the pin through the roof,... but it pulled in again... I'll find something else cool to do with them, eventually. It was a good shot at something that might have worked. I checked with Specialty Parts today and they can get replacements ... at $78.00 each !!! Egads! Any electrical engineers out there that can explain what has happened to my original solenoids to make them sluggish and weak? I have cleaned and lubed superficially but maybe I need to break them down further.... I'll have to have a closer look at one when I get it out of the door... But what could happen, eh? It's just wire around a core, energized it becomes a magnet. What can "wear out" in these things? What "gets weak"? I cleaned and Nooloxed the connectors for the solenoids in the back doors when I redid them, but the door locks still don't work worth a snot. Guess I need to start by monitoring voltage at the connector... Any other ideas anyone about why they might have weenied out?.... JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:15:39 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Arm Rests Hey all, I'm still kind of in search of arm rests in the buckskin color for the rear doors on the Wag. Anybody ever tried any swaps from "other vehicles"... I'd like to just order new ones in a suitable color even if for some other vehicle. Although now that I think about it I have never asked at the dealership about ordering something like this...I have a call to make tomorrow... I got started on this again as I had to travel last week for work and saw a '87ish Wag sitting in a parts yard. Lots of good body parts on her if anyone is in West Tennessee. Interior shot mostly, but I bought the arm rests off the back doors only to get them home and realized the plastic is so old and stressed they will probably not take the screw the first time I put them on. I didn't notice how cracked and dry the plastic on them was... cest la vie. I don't know why I thought I could get anything decent like that out of a junkyard... hope overrides logic sometimes I guess... Should also mention there are 2 J-trucks there since they are hard to find, one has most of the rhino chaser parts on the front the other is newer vintage with the full width grille I think....both were rusty, step bumpers but rusted through, rough interiors, both had the full size beds with tailgates, couldn't be sure the condition, tho at a glance they didn't look horrible. Both sittin on wheels so they've got undercarriage parts...in case anyone is looking... JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:14:23 -0600 From: Michael Shimniok Subject: fsj: Re: [Door Lock Solenoids] JeepNut wrote: > I picked up on a thread about a potential cheap replacement door lock > solenoid. > All Electronics has a $5.00 solenoid so I thought I'd check them > out...but unless someone out there can tell me something I hadn't > figured out yet... > > These solenoids only pull in. And they are quite strong, but they don't > push out. I thought maybe reversed polarity would shoot the pin through > the roof,... but it pulled in again... I'll find something else cool to > do with them, eventually. Strange. Sorry if I steered you wrong. I just went out to the garage to test one of mine and it pushes AND pulls just fine. What I have isn't precisely a door lock "solenoid"... it is an "actuator" comprised of a motor with a gear that drives a gear rack that converts the motor's circular motion to linear. It is a standard 12V dc motor and hence it goes both directions. I notice the actuator doesn't lock in the up or down position, meaning the door lock mechanism has to provide enough resistance to hold the lock in the up or down position without hindering the actuator too much. Is it possible you got something different than what I got? If yours only goes one way, you could rig up two I suppose... one to pull up, the other to pull down. That and some creative wiring... Your oem solenoids may not be getting full voltage due to old wires or corroded connections... The wiring on these is not ideal... Michael - --- Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 21:25:16 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Re: [Door Lock Solenoids] On Wed, May 15, 2002 at 10:14:23PM -0600, Michael Shimniok wrote: > JeepNut wrote: > > I picked up on a thread about a potential cheap replacement door lock > > solenoid. > > All Electronics has a $5.00 solenoid so I thought I'd check them > > out...but unless someone out there can tell me something I hadn't > > figured out yet... > > > > These solenoids only pull in. And they are quite strong, but they don't > > push out. I thought maybe reversed polarity would shoot the pin through > > the roof,... but it pulled in again... I'll find something else cool to > > do with them, eventually. > > Strange. Sorry if I steered you wrong. I just went out to the garage to > test > one of mine and it pushes AND pulls just fine. What I have isn't precisely a > door lock "solenoid"... it is an "actuator" comprised of a motor with a gear > that drives a gear rack that converts the motor's circular motion to linear. > It is a standard 12V dc motor and hence it goes both directions. I notice > the > actuator doesn't lock in the up or down position, meaning the door lock > mechanism has to provide enough resistance to hold the lock in the up or down > position without hindering the actuator too much. > > Is it possible you got something different than what I got? > > If yours only goes one way, you could rig up two I suppose... one to pull up, > the other to pull down. That and some creative wiring... > > Your oem solenoids may not be getting full voltage due to old wires or > corroded connections... The wiring on these is not ideal... Providing this is an eighties rig with power locks, I had a problem similar to this in an 84 eagle - basically the power button wouldn't do anything to the LR door. I took the door panel off and soaked all the pivot points of the locking mechanism and now it works better than the other three (!). Seems that the actuators are extremely robust, but when the leverage gets corroded together, it don't work too good. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:14:07 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: what a large site On 5/15/02 3:44 AM, "plaisier" wrote: > Dear sir, > > I own a Wagoneer 73 for 2 years now. A 360" V8. In The Netherlands it is a > rare vehicle so specialist and parts are hard to find. Do you mind if I ask > you questions about my Wag in the future? They will come, I sure. As a I recommend getting on the fsj list on digest.net see: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html and possibly the fsjparts list on yahoogroups.com > matter of fact, do you know if there are (new) carpets (rubber) available > and where I can find them? http://www.1aauto.com 1A Auto email: service-at-1aauto.com toll free 888.844.3393 They sell carpeting kits. Also JC Whitney has carpeting. > > Forgive me my poor english; I'm Dutch. That's ok, my Deutsche is worse then your English. :) Ich hat funf jahre im Frankfurt und Darmstadt bleiben, soldat, von 1975 bis 1981. Ich leibe Deutschland, und Nederland. Every spring we would see the tulips in Keukenhof. :) So schoen. > Greetings, > Willem Plaisier > o||||o Jeep, the strongest four letter word in the world auf weiterschrieben, :) john meister - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:36:36 -0700 From: john meister Subject: fsj: Re: Grand Wagoneer good to hear from you Brennan! It has an NP229 Selectrac, the low range lever should be on the hump by the driver's seat. no locking hubs is good, keep it that way. front windows could be bad switches or corroded contacts, take it apart and clean. tranny is a Torqueflite 727. sounds like you've spotted all the issues... john On 5/15/02 9:53 AM, "Brennan Shepard" wrote: > John, this is Brennan from Blacksburg, VA. I've been a member of the xj-list > for a while, and even hung around on the FSJ-list before the xj-list started > up. Anyway, I've gotten rid of my jeeps and now mess around with Scouts for > the most part. My roomate is looking at an 84 Grand Wagoneer. What I know > about it is that its a 360, AT, and has no locking hubs. There is a switch to > the right of the steering wheel down by the A/C controls that says 2wd/4wd, > but I cannot find any low range engagement. Does this truck have a low range? > If so, where might I find the lever? The frame doesn't have a spot of rust on > it, the fuel tank is new, and the tailgate window works. There's a little bit > of rust on the rear quarters, but nothing much. The two front power windows do > not work, the owner does not know why. If you get a chance, I'd like to know > what to look for in particular on this thing, and any other random information > you might have that would be of use to me. You're the expert. Thanks for the > help John. > > Brennan - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com often via PINE on Linux ** (prefer plain text emails please!) ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 00:13:50 -0700 From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" Subject: fsj: RE: Door Lock Solenoids You may have bought the wrong part. After the previous post about All Electronics, I purchased 6 of their Door Lock Actuators (4 for the GWag and 2 more for my '65 cuda project). I just went out to the garage and tested one. It pushes and pulls. The model I purchased was DLA-1 and they were $5.50 each. pk '84 GW (almost done) '65 Barracuda (in work...) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of JeepNut Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 8:02 PM To: _FSJ List; Shimniok, Michael Subject: fsj: Door Lock Solenoids Hey guys, lesson learned to share. I picked up on a thread about a potential cheap replacement door lock solenoid. All Electronics has a $5.00 solenoid so I thought I'd check them out...but unless someone out there can tell me something I hadn't figured out yet... These solenoids only pull in. And they are quite strong, but they don't push out. I thought maybe reversed polarity would shoot the pin through the roof,... but it pulled in again... I'll find something else cool to do with them, eventually. It was a good shot at something that might have worked. I checked with Specialty Parts today and they can get replacements ... at $78.00 each !!! Egads! Any electrical engineers out there that can explain what has happened to my original solenoids to make them sluggish and weak? I have cleaned and lubed superficially but maybe I need to break them down further.... I'll have to have a closer look at one when I get it out of the door... But what could happen, eh? It's just wire around a core, energized it becomes a magnet. What can "wear out" in these things? What "gets weak"? I cleaned and Nooloxed the connectors for the solenoids in the back doors when I redid them, but the door locks still don't work worth a snot. Guess I need to start by monitoring voltage at the connector... Any other ideas anyone about why they might have weenied out?.... JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 21:51:33 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: More ProJ headaches. A: I had a semi-satisfying day too! I was slightly tired after doing the 4 AM AOTC (Attack of the Clones) and I not only got my email caught up (except pricing some parts shipping I forgot about) I put in several hours on my J10 4.0L conversion. I didn't mess with the trans crossbar yet, but I had a thought I would run past you guys before I do something that may mess things up. The J10 crossbar is not as wide (front to back where the trans mount sits) as the XJ one, so I thought maybe I would take my hot wrench and make a little notch on each side, front and back, and fold out the metal to drill for the trans mount bolts. (I can post pics with Webtv to the 1fsj list so people can see what I plan to do. Wish I could figure how to do that with my puter!) Since I'm only notching about 1/2" down, would this weaken the crossbar considerably? (the bottom lip would still be intact) I figure I could just run a piece of steel across all 4 bolts on the bottom for added strength. Anyway, I got my temporary power brake booster and master in (from an '87 XJ, till I can afford to get my Hydroboost rebuilt) with a little persuasion (I had to chop the passing gear bracket off for clearance, and it's still tight till I do the 2" body lift) I started removing the extraneous wiring under the hood and I hooked the ground strap and MAP sensor to the firewall (is there some reason those are mounted upside down? To keep liquid out maybe?) I compared my '84 J10 power booster with the '83 Wag, and the J10 booster is thicker. Does this mean is a double unit or just physically bigger? (either way, it's on my parts pile now) Joe H from Everett dropped by and picked up the catalytic converter I didn't need (we played with his '83 Wag a bit and discovered #1 and #7 plugs in his 360 aren't firing for some reason, but I also heard what sounded like a vacuum leak that I couldn't track down due to having just 1 good ear now. I checked the usual culprits but couldn't trace it) Joe got on his way, and I went back to messing around with Black Jack. I now have a driveshaft (I borrowed the one for my MJ's 4x4 conversion when I saw it was a perfect fit) and discovered someone took the other 6 driveshafts I had! :^( I tried to drop the rest of the old gas tank's skidplate (one bolt was spinning in the frame and I was too tired to dig out the hotwrench) then quit that and crawled under the back and test fitted the XJ tank. It had lots of room (and more) once I took my spare tire crossbar out (I guess it'll be going in the box from now on) The power steering is hooked up (the 4.2L pump is on the parts pile. It leaked out the front seal but had good hoses and pulley if anyone wants it) From: "Don Hansen" Subject: Re: More ProJ headaches. I'm getting there... Have the electrical all in..I'M AT THE POINT OF NO RETURN!!! The next thing I do will render the truck inoperable until I'm finished... (Getting scared, here!!!!) Done so far: Fuel pump and filters mounted Adaptors figured out and mounted on TBI. (I hope!) Electronic control unit mounted (On pass. side rt. wall just forward of vent opening. The ECUhas to be mounted inside: Can't take the under-hood enviroment...BUT not TOO inside, i.e. not in the glove box...) Wiring harness run and zip-tied to all sorts of OEM FSJ thangs Power relay wired and installed. Now, all I have to do is do the fuel & return lines over, remove the fuel pump (THIS will be last!), pull the carb, mount everything, heave out forty pounds of vacuum hose, turn the key and...probably nothing... Then if it does by some miracle run, I get to set the 2 idles, tune the system, and shuffle off to Buffalo... - -Don ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1644 **************************