From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Jul 30 15:10:22 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, July 30 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1707 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1706 (Ernie's in the Islands) fsj: GMP Water pump on! Re: fsj: GMP Water pump on! Re: [fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record...] fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... Re: fsj: GMP Water pump on! Re: fsj: 63 wagoneer - crossover steering update fsj: Re:'75 Wagoneer fsj: Re: Re:'75 Wagoneer fsj: thank you... fsj: Alternator Re: fsj: Alternator Re: fsj: Alternator FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:04:04 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... btw, looking forward to meeting you in Ouray... :) We've been swapping email for years and years... around 6 at least, right? john At 07:39 PM 7/29/2002 +0000, txh3202-at-att.net wrote: >I sure hope I'm not using that gas can ratchet >strapped to the frame as a gas tank. The truck >is coming together. It should be on the road by >the end of this week. > >-- >Terry L. Howe >http://www.jeeptech.com/ >http://www.jeepwire.com/ > > will do... :) > > > > hopefully it'll be a bit more assembled then this... ;) > > > > john > > > > At 06:43 PM 7/29/2002 +0000, txh3202-at-att.net wrote: > > > > > > >Keep an eye out for this one John... > > > > > >http://4x4wire.com/cgi-bin/gallery/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=tech > nical_sh > > ots/susp/75j10lift&image=dcp_0042.jpg&img=&tt= > > > > > >Hope to meet you in 2.5 weeks! > > > > > >-- > > >Terry L. Howe > > >http://www.jeeptech.com/ > > >http://www.jeepwire.com/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:07:44 -0400 From: "Ernest Brown" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1706 (Ernie's in the Islands) I will be out of the office and completely unavailable from the evening of Friday July 26 through Sunday August 4. If you need assistance with the Watershed Conference or the NPS Mini Grant Program, please contact Fran Geissler at 804 786-9732 or Jackie Miller at 804 786-0237. Matters related to Southern Rivers or Coastal Watershed Issues, please contact the appropriate DCR Watershed Manager for your watershed. Thanks Ernie ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:49:08 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: GMP Water pump on! Hi, I got the GMP-1040-P water pump put on over the weekend. I couldn't get the drain plugs out of the block, they must be epoxied in place - real bright, guys. Seems to be cooling ok, still will drain one more time, parked face down on a steep hill, before adding coolant. I had to add two spacers, one on each side of the heater return? line, one is 5/8" long, the other just under an inch. This is annoying, so I will find an executive, and mail the core to his desk in Japan. Fortunately, there is sufficient clearance to add spacers. Moving the compressor and AIR pump around was not too bad. Has anyone else's alternator adjustment arm bent forwards, allowing the alternator to be angled? Truck is running well, and I'm psyched about Ouray, though I will take advice on where to get #50, or #52 jets to lean out the Motorcraft 2150. - - Landon '89 GW ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 13:52:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: GMP Water pump on! This post reminds me - My Waggy seems to have a pretty severe leak from the back of the water pump. How hard is it to replace seals on this guy? Or would it be a replacement of the whole pump? Alex ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:06:42 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: [fsj: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record...] At 01:16 PM 7/29/2002 -0600, Michael Shimniok wrote: >Philosophical question... if I were to get a J10, put chevy axles on it, chop >the frame 6" it would stop being an FSJ by the original definition... Possibly only because of wheel track, but length of wb would still qualify... 119-6=113 inches... ;) I don't know of anyone who would disallow it as an FSJ. In fact, if a guy cut the frame and made it 96" long, like one guy did to a wagoneer... and very tempting too I might add, it's still an SJ from the factory. I think the definition is a good one. I vaguely remember it saying if it came from the factory as an SJ, it's an FSJ... :) works for me. :) >If Jeep develops a new vehicle (or revises the Grand Cherokee) that fits >within the dimensions it would be an FSJ. well, not without the SJ designator... although it might qualify as a new type of FSJ... the Grand models were supposed to serve the same purpose as the old Wagoneer line, I guess... The WJ is really what the Grand Wagoneer would have been... only beefs I've got are uni-frame and poor visibility, otherwise it's superb and better then the old sj. I think there will never be a replacement for the "Grand Old Dame" as writer Robert Ackerson called the Wagoneer. >Should the definition stand or should it simply address particular body >stylesand years? Just curious what your personal opinion is. The SJ model is unique, we should keep it so. :) There will never be another like it. Neither should there... ;) fwiw, there was talk that the durango might be the next FSJ... but my boss has one, I'm not impressed in the least, it's cheap... it's nice looking, runs great and all that, but it's just cheap... sorry... Would I have one... maybe... ;) john >Michael >john wrote: > > At 01:11 PM 7/29/2002 -0400, Kievit Matthew wrote: > > >Technically, it's ('99 WJ) still full-sized. > > >Liberty, Wrangler, and Cherokee are all > > >down-size. Therefore, your WJ is a FULLSIZE Jeep. :) > > > > > > >Matt (wouldn't test that theory -at- Ouray, though!) > > > > > > According to the definition, it's NOT a Full Size Jeep, > > the WJ is only 105.9 inches in wheelbase, minimum requirement > > is 108". :) (hence my desire to create a pseudo-FSJ by > > duct taping an early '80's Cherokee grille to the front... ;) > > > > > > Those of us that formed the FSJ list defined what an FSJ > > is as such: > > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-charter.html > > > > THE FSJ CHARTER: > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > FSJ information > > -------------------------- > > This list is for the discussion of Full-size Jeeps (FSJ) > > > > An "FSJ" is any vehicle produced in North America, carrying the "Jeep" > > nameplate, with 2 or 4drs, in 2 or 4wd, whose wheelbase does not exceed > > 132", nor is less than 108", and whose tread width is no more than 63" > > nor less than 57". > > -------------------------- > > This definition is known to include the following models: > > Wagoneer: 1963-1983 > > Gladiator and J-series pickup: 1963-1987 > > Cherokee: 1974-1983 > > Grand Wagoneer: 1984-1991 > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ALL FULL-SIZE JEEPS HAVE A JEEP MODEL DESIGNATOR OF: SJ > > > > http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/jeepcode.html (jeep production codes) > > > > > > Jeep Dimensions > > rig - WB - length - Width > > ===================== > > J10 118.8 194.0 78.9 (SJ - shortwheelbase pickup) > > WJ 105.9 181.5 72.3 (1999 and up) > > SJ 108.7 186.5 75.6 > > > > XJ 101.4 165.3 70.5 > > > > ZJ 105.9 177.2 70.9 (1992-1998) > > TJ 93.4 152.8 68.2 > > YJ 93.4 152 66 > > CJ7 93.5 147.9 65.3 > > > > And for the record, the charter members were: > > > > The folks that started this thing all off were referred to as the Charter > > Members, here is the list of those folks in order by year of their >vehicles...: > > > > --------------------------------- > > VEHICLE, NAME, STATE, E-MAIL (sorted by Vehicle age...) > > --------------------------------- > > 67 Super Wagoneer, Ken Wetherall, California (met in 1998) > > 68 Wagoneer, David Klingenberg, Idaho (met in 1997) > > 74 Wagoneer, Rolf Aalto, Washington > > 75 J-10, Hunter Hasbrouck, Alaska > > 76 Wagoneer, Ron Strouss, Washington (met in 1997) > > 77 Chief, Russ Campbell, Oregon > > 79 Cherokee, Michael Baxter, Nevada (met in 1999) > > 79 Cherokee, Ed Pedersen, Vancouver, B.C. (met in 1997) > > 79 J-10, Rich Holley, Nebraska > > 79 Wagoneer, Mike Lacher, N. Dakota (posted "wagoneer owners unite") > > 81 Wagoneer Ltd, John Meister, Washington (worked with Mike Lacher to start > > > FSJ list) > > 82 Wagoneer, Steve Nordby, Mass. > > 84 Wagoneer, Allen Lundgren, Texas > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ========================================================================== > > For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net > > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests > > more info at: > > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html > > ========================================================================== > > Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... > > ========================================================================== > > > >--- >Michael E. Shimniok - KC0EKI - Michael.Shimniok-at-usa.net > "For every complex problem, there is a solution that > is simple, neat, and wrong." - H. L. Menken - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 14:30:18 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the FSJ charter, for the Ouray record... I signed up at random... probably won't run any severe trails as I'll be driving the wife's jeep... hey, WJ - wife's Jeep... ;) I'll look at your picks and research it... maybe later this week... busy keeping systems running, users happy, etc... teaching a grad computer science class was up till midnight last night preparing for tomorrow night's lecture... run, run, run... :) john At 09:23 PM 7/29/2002 +0000, txh3202-at-att.net wrote: > > btw, looking forward to meeting you in Ouray... :) > > We've been swapping email for years and years... around > > 6 at least, right? > >At least 6, maybe more. What are your trail picks for >Ouray? This is what I signed up for: > >Friday : (1st) poughkeepsie (2nd) imogene_ophir (3rd) clear_lake >Saturday : (1st) imogene_ophir (2nd) poughkeepsie (3rd) placer_picayne > >-- >Terry L. Howe >http://www.jeeptech.com/ >http://www.jeepwire.com/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 18:46:56 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: GMP Water pump on! You have to replace the Water pump, it is not a matter of replacing seals.. Secondly, it is not done. they are cheap enough to replace, with the core charge, the leak in the back , is most likely coming from the pilot hole, which is supposed to leak, when your seal goes out, It is designed to tell you to replace it. it is a indicator that is has broke. The bearings, have worn through the the seal. The water pump is not too hard to replace, just like changing a more advanced thermostat.. grin, except you have to attend with brackets, and make sure the gaskets do not shift on you when putting it back on, and it is not up side down when installing. I think they are about 45 bucks.. ( with the old one as the core ) check around all the auto places,.. look for the lifetime warranty.. R.J. Alexander Wall wrote: > This post reminds me - My Waggy seems to have a pretty severe leak from the back of the water > pump. How hard is it to replace seals on this guy? Or would it be a replacement of the whole > pump? > > Alex > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ================================================================================= > "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook > "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall > ================================================================================= > Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better > http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 16:08:39 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: 63 wagoneer - crossover steering update A: I looked at my son's '66 Wag (with manual steering) and the '75 J10 seems to have a bracket attached to the frame to put the box on the later models don't have (I saw this on CJs too) My new knuckle should be on it's way home tomorrow sometime, and I'll have the axle ready to put it onto, with new Ujoints and bearings. I'll be putting my old knuckles in my for sale stuff as they aren't the right flat top for high steering, but the balljoints are still fine on them. The '76 Blazer SOA axle will be for sale again too. 3.08 ratio, but it doesn't have the provision for RH steering attachment either. A cross steering drag link would be needed. Too bad it's RH drop because it bolted right in to Black Jack! From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: 63 wagoneer - crossover steering update hi all, a couple weeks ago i got a steering arm attached to the passenger-side steering knuckle. i put new u-joints in both front axle shafts, rebuilt the hubs, reassembled the brakes with new pads... this last weekend i finally got my hands on a power-steering-gear box for my 63 wagoneer...donor was a 77 wagoneer. maybe next weekend i can figure out how to install it. more to come, jeff ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 19:01:16 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re:'75 Wagoneer At 07:08 PM 7/29/2002 -0700, Raymond Castano wrote: >Hi there! I dig your site. I've been on quite a journey over the last >year searching for a 1975 wagoneer. I had one for a few years and it >really died and for some reason I junked it. I've looked through every >national search site, want ads, you name it. Do you have any sort of >advice that could aid in my search. I need this vehicle! > >Thanks, Ray C. well, best bet is to get on one of the FSJ lists and keep your eyes open. '75 is a pretty good year, disc brakes, open knuckles... v8's... :) john ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html see also yahoogroups.com: 1FSJ and FSJparts ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:31:56 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Re:'75 Wagoneer oops, forgot to include his email: "Raymond Castano" will let him know... ;) john At 08:29 PM 7/29/2002 -0700, David Turner wrote: >hey john, >its a shame that this guy didn't contact me back in april. >i sold mine. it was a 75. oh well. hey you might let him know >i sold it to the car connection in lynnwood. they might still have it, >or they could tell him what happened to it. the ph # 425/353-cars > >----- Original Message ----- >From: john >Sent: Monday, July 29, 2002 7:05 PM >To: Raymond Castano >Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; 1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com; FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com >Subject: fsj: Re:'75 Wagoneer > >At 07:08 PM 7/29/2002 -0700, Raymond Castano wrote: > >Hi there! I dig your site. I've been on quite a journey over the last > >year searching for a 1975 wagoneer. I had one for a few years and it > >really died and for some reason I junked it. I've looked through every > >national search site, want ads, you name it. Do you have any sort of > >advice that could aid in my search. I need this vehicle! > > > >Thanks, Ray C. > >well, best bet is to get on one of the FSJ lists and keep your eyes >open. '75 is a pretty good year, disc brakes, open knuckles... v8's... :) > >john > >========================================================================== >For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ >http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's > http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net >http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests >more info at: > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html > >see also yahoogroups.com: 1FSJ and FSJparts >========================================================================== > Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... >========================================================================== - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2002 20:35:30 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: thank you... not sure who ordered from Amazon.com off of my website, but thank you... If you didn't realize it, there are links at the bottom of most of the pages on http://wagoneers.com where you can search amazon.com and buy... helps support my server costs... :) thanx, john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:17:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: fsj: Alternator OK - when my ammeter shorted out, it cooked my alternator. Since I have to replace it, I want to go high-output. The 87-amp and 94-amp ones for AMC engines are apparently a larger housing - will they fit in the existing bracket? One of the parts guys I talked to mentioned the possibility of going to a 1-wire 100-amp alternator. Does anyone have any pros-n-cons regarding this? Is it even feasable? I don't know how the regulation of charging works, so it seems like it would burn stuff out, eventually. TIA, Alex ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 13:37:45 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Alternator Alexander Wall said: {- OK - when my ammeter shorted out, it cooked my alternator. Since I have t {- o replace it, I want {- to go high-output. The 87-amp and 94-amp ones for AMC engines are apparentl {- y a larger housing - {- will they fit in the existing bracket? {- One of the parts guys I talked to mentioned the possibility of going to a {- 1-wire 100-amp {- alternator. Does anyone have any pros-n-cons regarding this? Is it even fe {- asable? I don't know {- how the regulation of charging works, so it seems like it would burn stuff o {- ut, eventually. What year is yours? My experience: I suspected the alternator on my '74 (Wag), which was a wimpy Motorola (?) alternator of being bad -- IIRC, it was around 40amp. (It turned out not to be the problem, but I'd eventually have wanted to do this swap anyway.) They couldn't re-coil it for more power because of the way it was designed (had to take their word for it), but I had an alternator for an '85 (GWag -- IIRC, 80+ amps stock), which I took in and had re-coiled for higher output. I think they charged $80 or $120 or something to re-do the alternator and install it. That included new brushes and bushings and other parts I don't know much about. He said it was technically 90-something amps, but would easily deliver 110amps, but that the fan on those to cool them would not be able to keep it cool at that output for more than a few minutes (which is why it wasn't worth it to make it any more powerful). Anyway, the alternator from the '85 was larger than the '74, so they had to make a custom bracket for it -- which I'll actually have to have completely re-done again later since they put it where the AC was originally, and someday I'll want to put AC back in it. (Also, the '74 had a separate voltage regulator mounted on the wheel well, while the '85 had it built-in, so the stock voltage regulator is no longer used.) So if that helps you any... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A computer quote ahead of its time: There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself. -- Johann Sebastian Bach - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 11:49:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: Alternator > What year is yours? 1984 > Anyway, the alternator from the '85 was larger than the '74, so they had > to make a custom bracket for it -- which I'll actually have to have > completely re-done again later since they put it where the AC was > originally, and someday I'll want to put AC back in it. I still have A/C (though it doesn't work), so the only spot available is the present location, below the A/C compressor. There is a ton of room around the alternator itself, but the pivot bracket is a fixed length. I'm going to take my existing one in to compare all the dimensions. Thanks! Alex ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Where there's a will, there's a way." - Eliza Cook "Where there's a way, there's a construction crew disrupting traffic!" - Alex Wall ================================================================================= Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1707 **************************