From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Aug 3 21:37:43 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Sunday, August 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1711 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1710 (Ernie's in the Islands) Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez fsj: News about nothing fsj: TH400 and QT Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 18:48:25 -0400 From: "Ernest Brown" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1710 (Ernie's in the Islands) I will be out of the office and completely unavailable from the evening of Friday July 26 through Sunday August 4. If you need assistance with the Watershed Conference or the NPS Mini Grant Program, please contact Fran Geissler at 804 786-9732 or Jackie Miller at 804 786-0237. Matters related to Southern Rivers or Coastal Watershed Issues, please contact the appropriate DCR Watershed Manager for your watershed. Thanks Ernie ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 17:52:01 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez RJ wrote: > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with that cool > of a thermostat.... A: Too late, already in. Took Rez for a run just to scope things out. It's about 92 degrees outside here so I figured it was going to be a good test. Well, guess what? Engine runs great, temp gauge in the middle of normal range with the cooler (160) thermostat. However, I was doing about 70mph on I55 and noticed I was leaving a cloud of smoke behind me. Limped home with an extremely hot transmission. Apparently I dinged the rearmost fitting on the tranny's cooling line when putting in the engine. It cracked. When I removed the access cover to look, it was very apparent. So I tried to tease it out but of course it broke off in the tranny. I've spent almost the entire day with easyouts trying to get the little stub out of the tranny. Not much room to work. Now my easyout is in the hunk of brass fitting and spinning, not gripping anymore. I tried to back it out, it's not moving in or out, just sits and spins, no luck. As I sit here contemplating what to do, I realize that the only way I'm probably going to get this little sucker out is to drop the tranny and transfer case. ANOTHER huge project! Guys, as I sit here covered in oil, sweat, and dirt, I'm thinking the good Lord didn't intend for me to go to Ouray this year. It's been one snag after another and at this point it's going to take an act of congress to get me there. So my choices remain........come in the TJ or don't come at all........and somehow, taking the TJ just doesn't seem to make any sense to me. At this point, I'm so darn tired and disappointed, I don't know what I'm going to do next. I can't believe a 20 cent fitting is keeping me from a trip I've been planning for the last 2 years! - --Vince '81 Wag '99 TJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.J. Baynum" To: "Vince Orr" Cc: ; "FSJ List" Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:51 PM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with that cool > of a thermostat.... > I believe, it's more like 190-192 degrees, it's made to run warmer... > Your likely to ruin the engine and pistons if you do, because the rings will > heat up enough to expand, thus,... getting blow by, and micro fracturing the > block pistons, or pre detention on the pistons from the cool running temps . > > R.J. > > > Nope, using a new stock temp sensor in the same position as the stock one. > > Only difference is the Edelbrock intake. > > > > My current plan is to install the 160 degree thermostat I bought today. I > > also have a new 4 core radiator on the way. If that doesn't make it cool, > > nothing will. I'll probably have to change to a hotter thermostat before > > winter but I definitely don't want my new engine overheating in Colorado. > > > > Putting on a cool Killer 32 rear bumper tomorrow. Looking for a whip > > antenna and mount for the CB. Need tow hooks for the bumper. Also need to > > tweak the kick down on the linkage to the carb, it is too tight and keeps > > the Rez in low gears too long. Not shifting smooth because of that. > > --Vince > > '81 Wagoneer, 360, 727, np219, D44 front, AMC 20 rear > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Joe Hughes" > > To: "'Vince Orr'" > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 12:38 AM > > Subject: RE: Hot Rez > > > > > Maybe your seeing the opposite of what I'm seeing. My new new motor > > > overheated barely in the warm. I just installed two 12" electric fans > > > from a MR2 and a new radiator from 1-800-radiator that I got for $134 > > > (yes, I said $134, and yes it is a 3-core Modine). It always ran > > > halfway between Cold and the begininning of the warm area when I ran the > > > old fan without a clutch. I adjusted the fans to kick on just above > > > warm and it ended up overheating and I had the right mix of water and > > > coolant and a brand new radiator. > > > > > > This new motor has a Edelbrock intake and carb, but the temp sensor must > > > not work correctly with my guage. A resisitor or a potentiometer will > > > take care of that problem. > > > > > > I'm assuming you aren't using the original temp sensor. If not use your > > > old one that should take care of that problem. > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On > > > > Behalf Of Vince Orr > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:17 PM > > > > To: FSJ List > > > > Subject: fsj: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, started the new engine yesterday.......sooooo > > > > smmmoooottthhhhhh. Very nice. > > > > > > > > One problem. Engine overheats. Needle just steadily creeps > > > > up to "H". Then I get scared and shut it off. Is there > > > > anything I could have hooked up wrong to cause this? I can > > > > pretty much rule out the thermostat. When filling the > > > > radiator, it was very apparent when the thermostat opened, it > > > > sucked all the coolant in from the top radiator tank. What > > > > was a two-barrel carb is now an Edelbrock (weber) four barrel > > > > (1400). Runs and idles great. Radiator is a three core. > > > > Cooled the old engine really well. Do new engines run hot or > > > > is it the parts I'm running? The water temp sensor is in the > > > > intake manifold I think. Since the new manifold is > > > > alumnimumumum...(wait while I stop my lips from > > > > vibrating)..could that cause a false reading? Could I be > > > > nervous over nothing? --Vince '81 Wagoneer, 360, ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:30:43 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Gee that kind of sounds like something that would happen to me... I don't see you getting a lot of help on this, but it seems odd to me that you have to run a 160 to get the thing to run in the normal range while the OEM 190 makes it run hot. I was running a 160 and mine would JUST clear the blue band on the temp gauge most of the time. Even in a Memphis summer it would not move over maybe 2 needle widths off the blue band. I switched to a 190 after reading R.J.'s post a while ago about the operating temp, oil flow, etc. It seemed to make good sense.... I don't know ANYTHING useful to offer except that this doesn't sound normal. We've all heard of doctors leaving tools in a patient.... could a rebuilder make a mistake? You bet. Wrong head gasket blocking holes maybe? I suspect you already talked to your rebuild shop, eh? What did they say? It just isn't right and I think you'd be living on the edge of the blade making a long trip with her so soon after rebuild with this weirdness going on. (easy for me to say, I can't go to Ouray anyway)... I'm watching this saga with great interest. JeepNut Vince Orr wrote: > > RJ wrote: > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > that cool > > of a thermostat.... > A: > Too late, already in. Took Rez for a run just to scope things out. It's > about 92 degrees outside here so I figured it was going to be a good test. > > Well, guess what? Engine runs great, temp gauge in the middle of normal > range with the cooler (160) thermostat. However, I was doing about 70mph on > I55 and noticed I was leaving a cloud of smoke behind me. Limped home with > an extremely hot transmission. Apparently I dinged the rearmost fitting on > the tranny's cooling line when putting in the engine. It cracked. When I > removed the access cover to look, it was very apparent. So I tried to tease > it out but of course it broke off in the tranny. I've spent almost the > entire day with easyouts trying to get the little stub out of the tranny. > Not much room to work. Now my easyout is in the hunk of brass fitting and > spinning, not gripping anymore. I tried to back it out, it's not moving in > or out, just sits and spins, no luck. > > As I sit here contemplating what to do, I realize that the only way I'm > probably going to get this little sucker out is to drop the tranny and > transfer case. ANOTHER huge project! Guys, as I sit here covered in oil, > sweat, and dirt, I'm thinking the good Lord didn't intend for me to go to > Ouray this year. It's been one snag after another and at this point it's > going to take an act of congress to get me there. So my choices > remain........come in the TJ or don't come at all........and somehow, taking > the TJ just doesn't seem to make any sense to me. At this point, I'm so > darn tired and disappointed, I don't know what I'm going to do next. I > can't believe a 20 cent fitting is keeping me from a trip I've been planning > for the last 2 years! > --Vince > '81 Wag > '99 TJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R.J. Baynum" > To: "Vince Orr" > Cc: ; "FSJ List" > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:51 PM > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > that cool > > of a thermostat.... > > I believe, it's more like 190-192 degrees, it's made to run warmer... > > Your likely to ruin the engine and pistons if you do, because the rings > will > > heat up enough to expand, thus,... getting blow by, and micro fracturing > the > > block pistons, or pre detention on the pistons from the cool running > temps . > > > > R.J. > > > > > Nope, using a new stock temp sensor in the same position as the stock > one. > > > Only difference is the Edelbrock intake. > > > > > > My current plan is to install the 160 degree thermostat I bought today. > I > > > also have a new 4 core radiator on the way. If that doesn't make it > cool, > > > nothing will. I'll probably have to change to a hotter thermostat > before > > > winter but I definitely don't want my new engine overheating in > Colorado. > > > > > > Putting on a cool Killer 32 rear bumper tomorrow. Looking for a whip > > > antenna and mount for the CB. Need tow hooks for the bumper. Also need > to > > > tweak the kick down on the linkage to the carb, it is too tight and > keeps > > > the Rez in low gears too long. Not shifting smooth because of that. > > > --Vince > > > '81 Wagoneer, 360, 727, np219, D44 front, AMC 20 rear > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Joe Hughes" > > > To: "'Vince Orr'" > > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 12:38 AM > > > Subject: RE: Hot Rez > > > > > > > Maybe your seeing the opposite of what I'm seeing. My new new motor > > > > overheated barely in the warm. I just installed two 12" electric fans > > > > from a MR2 and a new radiator from 1-800-radiator that I got for $134 > > > > (yes, I said $134, and yes it is a 3-core Modine). It always ran > > > > halfway between Cold and the begininning of the warm area when I ran > the > > > > old fan without a clutch. I adjusted the fans to kick on just above > > > > warm and it ended up overheating and I had the right mix of water and > > > > coolant and a brand new radiator. > > > > > > > > This new motor has a Edelbrock intake and carb, but the temp sensor > must > > > > not work correctly with my guage. A resisitor or a potentiometer will > > > > take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you aren't using the original temp sensor. If not use > your > > > > old one that should take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On > > > > > Behalf Of Vince Orr > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:17 PM > > > > > To: FSJ List > > > > > Subject: fsj: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, started the new engine yesterday.......sooooo > > > > > smmmoooottthhhhhh. Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > One problem. Engine overheats. Needle just steadily creeps > > > > > up to "H". Then I get scared and shut it off. Is there > > > > > anything I could have hooked up wrong to cause this? I can > > > > > pretty much rule out the thermostat. When filling the > > > > > radiator, it was very apparent when the thermostat opened, it > > > > > sucked all the coolant in from the top radiator tank. What > > > > > was a two-barrel carb is now an Edelbrock (weber) four barrel > > > > > (1400). Runs and idles great. Radiator is a three core. > > > > > Cooled the old engine really well. Do new engines run hot or > > > > > is it the parts I'm running? The water temp sensor is in the > > > > > intake manifold I think. Since the new manifold is > > > > > alumnimumumum...(wait while I stop my lips from > > > > > vibrating)..could that cause a false reading? Could I be > > > > > nervous over nothing? --Vince '81 Wagoneer, 360, - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 19:58:13 -0500 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: News about nothing Hi all, Just feeling left out since I don't get to go to Ouray... I just got the A/C rebuild in my Wag. I now have A/C for the first time in 4 years!!! Hot Dog!, well... more like cool kitty I guess... ;) It cost me $1200.00 to have the A/C rebuilt. New receiver, dryer, clutch and compressor, etc. but buddy, she blows ice cubes now, R12 too, not that crappy R134. $58.00 a pint and I could care less... I had to turn on the windsheild wipers driving home from Mississippi the other night because it was so hot and steamy out (and my A/C is so cold now) that the windsheild AND both front windows were fogging up on the OUTSIDE. That A/C was worth every penny... ;) For those that aren't familiar with the Memphis weather, the heat index today was 107. You can imagine what it has been like getting into that Wagoneer at noon for the lunch run and at 5:00 for the 50 minute run home every afternoon for the last 4 years with no A/C. And I think I have a name for this one finally. Never been big on actually naming my vehicles, but I'm thinking of officially dubbing this 88 as Under Construction. Or has this been taken? Comments? For what it's worth, I did pull 3 small downed trees up roots and all today with the Wagoneer. Spun tires on the grass in 4x4hi so I put it in lo, goosed it a little, and pulled 'em right out. So even tho I don't get to trail ride and probably will never get to do anything cool like Ouray, at least it isn't just an overgrown station wagon. It works for it's keep... ;) So that is 2 major fixes this year (rebuilt xfer case and A/C) and likely the last majors this year. Keep cool everyone... JeepNut - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only one... '92 Cherokee - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 3 Aug 2002 20:28:38 -0500 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: fsj: TH400 and QT I've got a TH400 and QuadraTrac that I saved out of a rotted out '76 Wag. I was originally planning on keeping them as spares for my '76 but decided that I won't be needing them. They're in an "unknown" condition; meaning that I know that they worked when the rig was running but I don't know what kind of *true* shape they are in. I was planning on rebuilding the TH400 but plans have changed and I nolonger have the room to store them. I would like them to be used rather than junked. I'll let them go for the price of shipping. They are located in SLC, Utah. If nobody wants them, they'll end up at the junkyard by the end of the month. I've also got lots of interior parts (black interior) off the '76 that are in good shape (no front seats tho I do have the rear bench). If you need something send me an email off list (so I don't have to wade through the digests) and I'll see if I've got it and if it's in good shape. In addition the hood and grill are in good shape as are the front fenders (I *think*). The rest of the body is so full of rust it's not worth the work to save it. Glass is all there and I even have a spare rear window with the defrost (original rear window didn't have the defrost). Scott '76 Wag '84 CYJ-7 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 03 Aug 2002 21:46:32 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez Dude.. just break down and take it to a mechanic, they have special tools and such and can get to it much faster then you can! Never seen a pro mechanic have a truck for too long , no matter what it is.. At least see what they say.. R.J. JeepNut wrote: > Gee that kind of sounds like something that would happen to > me... > I don't see you getting a lot of help on this, but it seems > odd to me that you have to run a 160 to get the thing to run > in the normal range while the OEM 190 makes it run hot. > I was running a 160 and mine would JUST clear the blue band > on the temp gauge most of the time. Even in a Memphis > summer it would not move over maybe 2 needle widths off the > blue band. I switched to a 190 after reading R.J.'s post a > while ago about the operating temp, oil flow, etc. It > seemed to make good sense.... > > I don't know ANYTHING useful to offer except that this > doesn't sound normal. > We've all heard of doctors leaving tools in a patient.... > could a rebuilder make a mistake? You bet. Wrong head > gasket blocking holes maybe? > > I suspect you already talked to your rebuild shop, eh? What > did they say? > It just isn't right and I think you'd be living on the edge > of the blade making a long trip with her so soon after > rebuild with this weirdness going on. > (easy for me to say, I can't go to Ouray anyway)... > I'm watching this saga with great interest. > JeepNut > > Vince Orr wrote: > > > > RJ wrote: > > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > > that cool > > > of a thermostat.... > > A: > > Too late, already in. Took Rez for a run just to scope things out. It's > > about 92 degrees outside here so I figured it was going to be a good test. > > > > Well, guess what? Engine runs great, temp gauge in the middle of normal > > range with the cooler (160) thermostat. However, I was doing about 70mph on > > I55 and noticed I was leaving a cloud of smoke behind me. Limped home with > > an extremely hot transmission. Apparently I dinged the rearmost fitting on > > the tranny's cooling line when putting in the engine. It cracked. When I > > removed the access cover to look, it was very apparent. So I tried to tease > > it out but of course it broke off in the tranny. I've spent almost the > > entire day with easyouts trying to get the little stub out of the tranny. > > Not much room to work. Now my easyout is in the hunk of brass fitting and > > spinning, not gripping anymore. I tried to back it out, it's not moving in > > or out, just sits and spins, no luck. > > > > As I sit here contemplating what to do, I realize that the only way I'm > > probably going to get this little sucker out is to drop the tranny and > > transfer case. ANOTHER huge project! Guys, as I sit here covered in oil, > > sweat, and dirt, I'm thinking the good Lord didn't intend for me to go to > > Ouray this year. It's been one snag after another and at this point it's > > going to take an act of congress to get me there. So my choices > > remain........come in the TJ or don't come at all........and somehow, taking > > the TJ just doesn't seem to make any sense to me. At this point, I'm so > > darn tired and disappointed, I don't know what I'm going to do next. I > > can't believe a 20 cent fitting is keeping me from a trip I've been planning > > for the last 2 years! > > --Vince > > '81 Wag > > '99 TJ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "R.J. Baynum" > > To: "Vince Orr" > > Cc: ; "FSJ List" > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:51 PM > > Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Hot Rez > > > > > Vince! don't put in the 160! I don't think the 360 is made to run with > > that cool > > > of a thermostat.... > > > I believe, it's more like 190-192 degrees, it's made to run warmer... > > > Your likely to ruin the engine and pistons if you do, because the rings > > will > > > heat up enough to expand, thus,... getting blow by, and micro fracturing > > the > > > block pistons, or pre detention on the pistons from the cool running > > temps . > > > > > > R.J. > > > > > > > Nope, using a new stock temp sensor in the same position as the stock > > one. > > > > Only difference is the Edelbrock intake. > > > > > > > > My current plan is to install the 160 degree thermostat I bought today. > > I > > > > also have a new 4 core radiator on the way. If that doesn't make it > > cool, > > > > nothing will. I'll probably have to change to a hotter thermostat > > before > > > > winter but I definitely don't want my new engine overheating in > > Colorado. > > > > > > > > Putting on a cool Killer 32 rear bumper tomorrow. Looking for a whip > > > > antenna and mount for the CB. Need tow hooks for the bumper. Also need > > to > > > > tweak the kick down on the linkage to the carb, it is too tight and > > keeps > > > > the Rez in low gears too long. Not shifting smooth because of that. > > > > --Vince > > > > '81 Wagoneer, 360, 727, np219, D44 front, AMC 20 rear > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Joe Hughes" > > > > To: "'Vince Orr'" > > > > Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 12:38 AM > > > > Subject: RE: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > Maybe your seeing the opposite of what I'm seeing. My new new motor > > > > > overheated barely in the warm. I just installed two 12" electric fans > > > > > from a MR2 and a new radiator from 1-800-radiator that I got for $134 > > > > > (yes, I said $134, and yes it is a 3-core Modine). It always ran > > > > > halfway between Cold and the begininning of the warm area when I ran > > the > > > > > old fan without a clutch. I adjusted the fans to kick on just above > > > > > warm and it ended up overheating and I had the right mix of water and > > > > > coolant and a brand new radiator. > > > > > > > > > > This new motor has a Edelbrock intake and carb, but the temp sensor > > must > > > > > not work correctly with my guage. A resisitor or a potentiometer will > > > > > take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > > I'm assuming you aren't using the original temp sensor. If not use > > your > > > > > old one that should take care of that problem. > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On > > > > > > Behalf Of Vince Orr > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 6:17 PM > > > > > > To: FSJ List > > > > > > Subject: fsj: Hot Rez > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, started the new engine yesterday.......sooooo > > > > > > smmmoooottthhhhhh. Very nice. > > > > > > > > > > > > One problem. Engine overheats. Needle just steadily creeps > > > > > > up to "H". Then I get scared and shut it off. Is there > > > > > > anything I could have hooked up wrong to cause this? I can > > > > > > pretty much rule out the thermostat. When filling the > > > > > > radiator, it was very apparent when the thermostat opened, it > > > > > > sucked all the coolant in from the top radiator tank. What > > > > > > was a two-barrel carb is now an Edelbrock (weber) four barrel > > > > > > (1400). Runs and idles great. Radiator is a three core. > > > > > > Cooled the old engine really well. Do new engines run hot or > > > > > > is it the parts I'm running? The water temp sensor is in the > > > > > > intake manifold I think. Since the new manifold is > > > > > > alumnimumumum...(wait while I stop my lips from > > > > > > vibrating)..could that cause a false reading? Could I be > > > > > > nervous over nothing? --Vince '81 Wagoneer, 360, > > -- > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > '87 Street Comanche #24/100 > '88 Grand Wagoneer ...and they say there's only > one... > '92 Cherokee > ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1711 **************************