From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Sep 12 09:38:10 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, September 11 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1743 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: there go the Judge... Re: fsj: New home for the Judge Re: fsj: New home for the Judge fsj: Re: Rust Re: fsj: Re: Rust fsj: full size mirrors?? Re: fsj: full size mirrors?? fsj: Re: the neverending superdawg project fsj: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1856858660: Detroit Diesel 6V92 DDEC 2 used engines fsj: Viscous coupler overhaul? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 20:13:24 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: there go the Judge... At 03:09 AM 9/9/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >I'm going to stay on the list 'cause I still love FSJs, but I want to take >the opportunity to say "Thank you" to everyone on this list who's helped and >shared knowledge and kindness with me over the past six years. You guys are >all awesome. Special thanks to John, Jim and Michael for being so patient. > >Clark Novak >ex-87 GW, San Diego been there, done that, came back... :) my datsun trailer sold today, and my '54 chevy box may have a new home this week, which escalates the '75 J10 long bed trailer project. :) btw, I'll be in LA at the convention center the 22nd through the 27th for HP World... maybe you can swing by and we can grab a cup of coffee together or lunch... my wife will be with me so that limits my free time for Jeep activity. :) She bores easily of Jeep talk and lets me know about it. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 23:42:30 -0500 From: "R.J. Baynum" Subject: Re: fsj: New home for the Judge Well i guess i am not the only guy that is whipped around here! hehehe.. Sorry dude.. I feel for you! Did you have him Join the FSJ-List or the 1FSJ over at yahoogroups.com too? have check these outstanding sites. http://www.IFSJA.org and http://www.wagoneers.com and http://www.CFSJA.org and http://www.wagoneers.net our magazine, http://www.FSJMagazine.com Have you met Al Metzel? He lives in San Diego I think John Meister, will going there soon as well on a business trip.. R.J. 80 J-10 Honcho Huntsville AL. Clark Novak wrote: >Hey guys, > >Well, it finally happened... I am FSJ-less. My wife had had enough of The >Judge, and insisted I get a newer vehicle that she felt comfortable driving, >too, so I have a 2000 GMC 1500 Sierra. > >However, The Judge is still in the family: I gave it to my cousin, Jason, >who'll be joining this list shortly. He's 25 and he's never driven anything >bigger than a Nissan pickup before :) Boy's got a man's truck now! > >I'm going to stay on the list 'cause I still love FSJs, but I want to take >the opportunity to say "Thank you" to everyone on this list who's helped and >shared knowledge and kindness with me over the past six years. You guys are >all awesome. Special thanks to John, Jim and Michael for being so patient. > >Clark Novak >ex-87 GW, San Diego ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 20:30:48 -0700 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: New home for the Judge yeah, I'm driving down to LA for HP World the 20th through the 27th... won't have a lot of free time for FSJ activity though, will be in technical sessions during the day and with the wife in the evening. However, I'm leaving time open during the day for coffee... :) john At 11:42 PM 9/8/2002 -0500, R.J. Baynum wrote: >Well i guess i am not the only guy that is whipped around here! hehehe.. >Sorry dude.. I feel for you! >Did you have him Join the FSJ-List or the 1FSJ over at yahoogroups.com too? >have check these outstanding sites. http://www.IFSJA.org and >http://www.wagoneers.com >and http://www.CFSJA.org and http://www.wagoneers.net >our magazine, http://www.FSJMagazine.com >Have you met Al Metzel? He lives in San Diego >I think John Meister, will going there soon as well on a business trip.. >R.J. >80 J-10 Honcho >Huntsville AL. > >Clark Novak wrote: > >>Hey guys, >> >>Well, it finally happened... I am FSJ-less. My wife had had enough of The >>Judge, and insisted I get a newer vehicle that she felt comfortable driving, >>too, so I have a 2000 GMC 1500 Sierra. >> >>However, The Judge is still in the family: I gave it to my cousin, Jason, >>who'll be joining this list shortly. He's 25 and he's never driven anything >>bigger than a Nissan pickup before :) Boy's got a man's truck now! >> >>I'm going to stay on the list 'cause I still love FSJs, but I want to take >>the opportunity to say "Thank you" to everyone on this list who's helped and >>shared knowledge and kindness with me over the past six years. You guys are >>all awesome. Special thanks to John, Jim and Michael for being so patient. >> >>Clark Novak >>ex-87 GW, San Diego >> >> >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 06:25:36 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: Rust There were rusty vehicles in Houston too. I guess if you like to take your vehicle on the sands at the beach, you will get rust most certainly......and, like Florida, last time I checked, they didn't use salt in Houston either. Didn't have any snow plows..... But they did have a truck that sprayed a big cloud of something up and down the street and in all the storm sewers..........and that looked kinda like snow or fog on a cold winter Iowa morning........made me homesick.....;) - --Vince - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: Sent: Sunday, September 08, 2002 1:26 PM Subject: fsj: the neverending superdawg project > At 03:15 PM 9/8/2002 +0000, 1FSJ-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: > >Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 8 Sep 2002 01:09:07 EDT > > From: cherokeechief79-at-aol.com > >Subject: Re: SuperDawg pictures - in work > http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2002/ > >shees gonna be sweeeeet john! > > he was nice before, just getting better... :) > > the goal was to improve fuel efficiency and reliability, > and an automatic trans (although I did like the T-5, it > was "weak" but had good ratios... under towing load I could > tell that it wouldn't take much to break it... that > and my lower back was injured in the Army and shifting most > cars results in problems... although SJs and VWs seem to > be ok for the most part.) > > While he had some rust spots in weird places, probably from > trees dropping sap, he was cleaner then the alleged 12,000 mile > truck. Of course Curtis being from California thinks any rust > is a bad thing and points to various surface rust and is concerned. > I think we need to chip in and get Curtis an all expense paid trip > to Chicago to look at vehicles that live there... rofl... of course > he's probably been there and seen it first hand, but trust me, after > a couple years out here on the west coast you forget... I was appalled > at the rust issue in Salt Lake City... I saw a '78 (donor vehicle > for my son's transmission) with door skins and fenders rotted away and > learned that they are actually using the brine from the Great Salt Lake > on the roads in the winter! Thankfully out here in Oregon and Washington > we either can't afford salt or our "leaders" are smart enough to know > that sand works just as well, better perhaps... There are places in > snow country like Montana and South Dakota and Wyoming I think, that > don't salt the roads... We should compile a list of places where salt > is used, and then a list of places where rust is an issue just because > of the environment. I mean vehicles in Florida seem to rot away pretty > quick too, and last I checked they don't use salt on the roads in winter... ;) > > >will everything in the new dash panel work? > > absolutely. we're using the '96 XJ wiring harness. we'll > have to move the idiot lights off somewhere else as the SJ > dash panel isn't as wide as the XJ. Also we'll need to > relocate the SJ heater controls. I chose to keep them > as opposed to using the XJ vacuum controls. The cables > used in the SJ are simple. I'd like to keep the heater > controls AWAY from my passenger (as she's usually cold and > always cranks whatever heater is near by way up baking me > alive... ;) > > >does the older speedo cable attach to it? > > no, the newer unit uses an electronic pickup. > > >ABOVE THE LAW > >76-79 cherokeechief > >chevy 502 > >t 400 np205 > >dana 60 front > >corp 14 bolt rear > >fiberglass quarters and fenders > > > later, > john > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 09:15:30 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Rust "Vince Orr" said: {- There were rusty vehicles in Houston too. I guess if you like to take your {- vehicle on the sands at the beach, you will get rust most {- certainly...... Ummm, yeah, that just might do it. ;) {- and, like Florida, last time I checked, they didn't use salt {- in Houston either. Didn't have any snow plows..... But they did have a {- truck that sprayed a big cloud of something up and down the street and in {- all the storm sewers..........and that looked kinda like snow or fog on a {- cold winter Iowa morning........made me homesick.....;) http://129.186.79.84/icerace2001/ The FSJ _and_ a cold Iowa winter morning with lots of snow. That oughtta hold ya for awhile. :) Unfortunately, there was very little snow last winter; I can't really remember having that little snow in an Iowa winter before (and I've been here since 1980). I'm certainly hoping for more next year. (Those pics were from two winters ago, February 2001. I don't think that lake probably froze over even the top last winter.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The national budget must be balanced. The public debt must be reduced; the arrogance of the authorities must be moderated and controlled. Payments to foreign governments must be reduced, if the nation doesn't want to go bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance. -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, 55 B.C. - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:17:02 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: full size mirrors?? hi all, i have been wondering why is it that 'full size jeeps' have pinner-sized mirrors for the side-views. i have owned a 1990 for one month, and swear i can't see behind me with those sh*** little mirrors. i know i won't be able to see from them in my big-lifted 1963 when finally i get her running. ...so i'm at the junk yard today, and i spy a j-3000 with these huge mirrors with three-point-attachments (towing style?). snagged both for 26 bucks. they're going on the big 63 wagoneer. later, jeff This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 11:35:50 CDT From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: full size mirrors?? "Faith Jeff" said: {- ...so i'm at the junk yard today, and i spy a j-3000 {- with these huge mirrors with three-point-attachments {- (towing style?). {- {- snagged both for 26 bucks. they're going on the big 63 {- wagoneer. Shoulda told me. I have a pair of non-factory ones that I took off my '74. I'd probably send them for the price of shipping. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hate housework. You make the beds, you wash the dishes, and six months later you have to start all over again. -- Joan Rivers - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 10:23:17 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: the neverending superdawg project From: john Subject: the neverending superdawg project > From: cherokeechief79-at-aol.com >Subject: Re: SuperDawg pictures - in work http://www.wagoneers.com/SuperDawg/DawgYear2002/ >shees gonna be sweeeeet john! he was nice before, just getting better... :) the goal was to improve fuel efficiency and reliability, and an automatic trans (although I did like the T-5, it was "weak" but had good ratios... under towing load I could tell that it wouldn't take much to break it... that and my lower back was injured in the Army and shifting most cars results in problems... although SJs and VWs seem to be ok for the most part.) A: A better choice than the expensive version of the T5 for FSJs is the AX-15 used in '91 and newer XJs with 4.0L but watch out someone doesn't try to sell you the earlier Peugeot B/A-5 version! It's barely strong enough for an unloaded XJ! (Apparently the FSM suggests NOT to tow with them!) The fast way to tell the 2 apart is to look where the shifter attaches to the trans. The Peugeot version has a round collar with 3 bolts holding it on. The AX-15 (and the 4 cyl AX-5 which is still stronger than the Peugeot B/A-5) have a rectangular mount with 4 bolts. (I can supply pics of both) Also, the Peugeot version is only 21 spline (same as the AX-5) whereas the AX-15 is 23 spline. John and I found out that there are several depths of the input gear in various New Process/New Venture gears cases, so an adapter/spacer may be needed to bolt up to a FSJ case. John wrote: While he had some rust spots in weird places, probably from trees dropping sap, he was cleaner then the alleged 12,000 mile truck. Of course Curtis being from California thinks any rust is a bad thing and points to various surface rust and is concerned. I think we need to chip in and get Curtis an all expense paid trip to Chicago to look at vehicles that live there... rofl... of course he's probably been there and seen it first hand, but trust me, after a couple years out here on the west coast you forget... I was appalled at the rust issue in Salt Lake City... I saw a '78 (donor vehicle for my son's transmission) with door skins and fenders rotted away and learned that they are actually using the brine from the Great Salt Lake on the roads in the winter! Thankfully out here in Oregon and Washington we either can't afford salt or our "leaders" are smart enough to know that sand works just as well, better perhaps... There are places in snow country like Montana and South Dakota and Wyoming I think, that don't salt the roads... We should compile a list of places where salt is used, and then a list of places where rust is an issue just because of the environment. I mean vehicles in Florida seem to rot away pretty quick too, and last I checked they don't use salt on the roads in winter... ;) A: Florida doesn't need to use salt on the roads. It's done automatically each time there is a hurricane! (Some parts of Texas are that way too!) >will everything in the new dash panel work? absolutely. we're using the '96 XJ wiring harness. we'll have to move the idiot lights off somewhere else as the SJ dash panel isn't as wide as the XJ. Also we'll need to relocate the SJ heater controls. I chose to keep them as opposed to using the XJ vacuum controls. The cables used in the SJ are simple. I'd like to keep the heater controls AWAY from my passenger (as she's usually cold and always cranks whatever heater is near by way up baking me alive... ;) A: I split the controls in Elmo, and will do the same with Black Jack. That way I can have defog and floor heat at the same time, PLUS my wife can control how much heat comes on her side with a dial I'm going to add! I thought it was pretty dumb the way they set it up that you could only have floor OR defog, so I just put a Tee in the control valve hoses instead of the either/or vacuum switch. >does the older speedo cable attach to it? no, the newer unit uses an electronic pickup. A: You can retrofit the speedo cable to fit the newer cases and vice versa. You may have to swap the internal gear for it to work right (I found out it's different inside for MPH and KMPH) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 09 Sep 2002 18:43:27 -0700 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#1856858660: Detroit Diesel 6V92 DDEC 2 used engines I notice they have a left hand and a right hand rotation unit... so I should get one of each, right? Is that a tonka in the background or are these really big motors? :) john At 05:13 PM 9/9/2002 -0700, machinedoc-at-attbi.com wrote: >Something for you wagoneer project, maybe?. > >Title of item: Detroit Diesel 6V92 DDEC 2 used engines >Seller: compositebodies >Starts: Sep-04-02 14:03:59 PDT >Ends: Sep-11-02 14:03:59 PDT >Price: Starts at $699.00 >To bid on the item, go >to: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1856858660 > > >Item Description: > Detroit Diesel 6V92 DDEC 2 used engines for sale, we have 20 of > these bus application engines "left hand rotation"(We also have a right > hand rotation unit) for sale at these crazy blowout prices, we are > unloading them for for whatever they bring over $699 on ebay!!! you > could not buy a core for under 1500!!! >at these prices everyone should get them as spares or parts, the >accessories are all there!!! >these units will not last, you may call us if you have any questions >regarding these engines at (323) 261 4146 > > Visit eBay, The World's Online Marketplace TM at http://www.ebay.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 22:09:53 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Viscous coupler overhaul? Anyone got any info? I haven't played much with them myself - ----- Original Message ----- From: litebulb Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:13 PM To: Jim B Subject: Re: Hi Howard! Dear Jim; From what I recall, the 208 is part-time unit, can't use 4WD on bare pavement, this should be verified. With regards to the silicone fluid in the ATF, we never found goop mixed in with the ATF, this leads me to suspect the clutches never got a proper fill. They say they can't be filled, but I've done it, and the few transfer cases it's been done to are still running, and the viscous clutches seem to be doing their torque biasing just fine. Input from other members would be interesting on this subject. Regards, Howard - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim B To: litebulb Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:08 PM Subject: Re: Hi Howard! I think you're thinking of the NP208. The NP228 is the same as a NP229 w/o the viscous coupler. The 203 only had 4WD and 2:1 low range. When the viscous coupler bursts it's bag, there isn't any way to refill it I was told (by Zack who is an engineer at New Venture gear) The silicone fluid from the coupler goes into the ATF in the case and destroys the bearings! - ----- Original Message ----- From: litebulb Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:04 AM To: Jim B Subject: Re: Hi Howard! Dear Jim; Thanks for the help. I am very aware of the NP228. It is a (very) much lighter weight version of the NP203 I have in my Suburban, that is having the open center differential. I have actually found a way to service the viscous clutches in Eagles. The viscous fluid in some just seeps out after a while, and we can't find a trace of it upon transfer case disassembly. I suspect improper fills just to start with. The silicone fluid from fan clutches seems to be an excellent substitute. You just need patience in finding enough scrap units to break open and collect the stuff. Sounds impressive about the weight hauled up that grade with the '83 Cherokee, almost in Suburban territory! Regards, Howard - ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim B To: litebulb-at-iprimus.ca Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:34 AM Subject: Hi Howard! I'm from the Jeep lists and I'll ask them if someone near you has one. I have the NP228 for sale for $300 US, which is the same as a NP229, except no viscous coupler that can blow up. Another possible trade is the NP208, but you need to get a longer rear driveshaft to make it work (I think it's 5" or 7" shorter) It can be put into 2hi, 4hi or 4lo (if you have a disconnect front axle, you can also have 2lo which I liked pulling my 5 ton trailer with my '83 Cherokee up a 15% grade. http://www.virtualjeep.com/ Black Jack and other pics ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1743 **************************