From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Oct 28 11:10:21 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, October 28 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1779 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: '88 D44 axle spline count -- HELP! Re: fsj: RE: fsj mag Re: fsj: Re: taillights Re: fsj: Re: taillights fsj: Re: Re: steering column Re: fsj: Re: grand wagoneer diesel Re: fsj: Correct Distributor Vacuum Re: fsj: jeeptech engine pics RE: fsj: '88 D44 axle spline count -- HELP! fsj: Re: Re: engine weights... fsj: Re: Thanks for The Steering Column Repair Guide FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:36:47 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: '88 D44 axle spline count -- HELP! A: AFAIK, they are only 30 spline inners in Jeeps. BTW, John has a typo in there. The axles are NOT Dana 20! They are AMC Model 20 (which was still in use on Hummers till GM took over) Dana 20 is a transfercase used till '79 (with std trans and till '74 with automatics) on FSJs. The difference between early and late axles is that after '79 they became centered, so the shafts are same length left and right. From: Dan Black Subject: fsj: '88 D44 axle spline count -- HELP! Hey, I'm still trying to find out what the spline count would be for my rear axle. Does anybody have any idea? It's an '88 GWag with the stock D44 (and stock 2.72 gears for now). The only thing I found on Google was, not surprisingly, on John's site: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests/FSJ-v1-700/fsj-digest-v1-724.txt >Any '77-'79 FSJ has the beefiest Dana 44 front and rear axles versions >ever made. All with the thick tubes, 30 spline rear axles, HD spindles and >30 spline inner-19 spline outers up front. This is more of a late '70s >advantage over the previous FSJs. The Dana 44 rear axle is only a minor >advantage over '80s FSJs with the Dana 20 and the '80s FSJs also retained >the thick tube front housings. Of course, in late '86 and up Jeep went with D44's in back again (without any inner grease seals, which makes things simpler), so the only advantage of the earlier ones is the gear ratios available. So it doesn't say for sure on the late 80s models, but chances are it's a 30 spline count -- sound reasonable? More importantly, does anybody know for sure? (30 is actually what I was hoping for.) - - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- There IS a light at the end of the tunnel... It's a train! - - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - ------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:37:44 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: RE: fsj mag A: Haven't got mine yet either! From: john Subject: fsj: RE: fsj mag At 12:46 PM 10/25/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >Subject: fsj: FSJ Magazine >Woo hoo! My latest FSJ Magazine arrived yesterday, complete with John's >story (or at least the first part). Even a picture of me! (I'm the one >in the blue shirt; the pic is in the URH corner of the first two pages.) I don't get it... Super Ken got his last week, you got yours yesterday... mine still isn't here... :( maybe tonight, eh? :) I can hardly wait... thanx for the nice words! I still haven't sorted out all the picnic prizes and such, still have my notes so I should be able to get it all figured out with the help of others. :) john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:49:19 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: taillights A: I've had probably 20 Pintos (or Bobcat. same thing) When my kids were little, I had a '71 sedan with 1.6L Cortina GT motor (the original motor tossed a rod -at-130K) and 5 speed. I ended up using that thing to pull a towtruck out of the Fraser river in Mission BC (he made the mistake of trusting his Ebrake and linelock) and I pulled many other vehicles out of the ditch that didn't quite make the corner by Hercules Tire in Abbotsford. I used the bellhousing and converter off the BW auto to put another 1.6L into a Mazda wagon that had a blown motor (I've done many interspecies motor changes over the years) I had a '74 wagon that I stuffed a 400M into (after the 2.3L bit the dust) and an '80 Bobcat glassback that I put a Jeep 304 into (just a little fun was had with that car! ) The problem with the Pintos that could cause them to blow up was that Ford didn't build enough strength in the rear unibody to withstand a hit, and the gastank was trapped between the tin bumper and rear axle, so all it could do was accordion. Even in minor accidents, the fuel filler pipe would pop out of the tank, spilling gas all over the place. It was only the '71 to '73 sedans that had the problem. From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: taillights actually Pinto's are nice little cars. I've had about four of them. A '73 Pinto Wagon Squire, a '73 Runabout, a '74 Wagon and a '76 Wagon. great fuel economy, excellent handling, they felt heavy... solid... all the nonsense about exploding if hit because one person STOPPED in the middle of the highway to put their filler cap back on and got rear ended by a Chevy Van doing over 50mph! shoot just about any car or truck would explode if the fuel cap was off and it got nailed like that... oh well... we have lawyers and basic human ignorance and greed, not to mention blatant stupidity, to thank for the way things turn out... john ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:51:25 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: taillights A: The axles had trouble, but the Pacer is one of the strongest car designs to withstand impact. From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: Re: taillights I thought it was a Pacer that had the exploding rear end reputation... ? Shows how I pay attention. Alex ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:48:08 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: steering column Special tools? My wife says I only have one special tool...... - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: ; Cc: Sent: Wednesday, October 23, 2002 1:03 AM Subject: fsj: Re: steering column At 05:08 AM 10/23/2002 +0000, FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: > Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 00:05:00 EDT > From: fsj1978-at-aol.com >Subject: Re: Re: Steering wheel keeps coming off???? > > I and many others have had the exact same problem. Their's a writeup on >the ISFJ site. I don't recall needing any special tools that I didn't >already have. Granted, I've got a LOT of tools... >Chris Enos (Chino, CA) the write up is on wagoneers.com too... ;) special tools? well, you'll need the wheel puller, and then the tool to push the plate down... other "special" tools can be made up, see my pictures. :) john http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/steering-column.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:03:32 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: grand wagoneer diesel A: Actually, that's not quite true! If you have an automatic, you will need a Nissan 3.3L (turbo if you can find one) 6 cyl diesel with automatic trans (Both International and Jeep used this motor with the 727 automatic, but Nissan used the AW3 and AW4 in diesel Maxima wagons and 810s) They also used the AX15 trans, which the XJs used after '90. Motor mounts would have to be made, but the rest would be pretty easy. I found a 3.3 turbo running core with trans in ID for $600 that I was going to get and rebuild to put in my Comanche, but no bux now. 8^( From: john Subject: fsj: Re: grand wagoneer diesel At 05:06 PM 10/25/2002 -0500, Luis Castaqeda "Luis Castaqeda" , wrote: >hi, i'm from mexico, i have a 1986 grand wagoneer and i would like to >convert from 6L cyl to diesel, what motor should i buy, if you know >what i need, please help me. > >Luis Castaneda >Tampico, Tamaulipas,. Mexico >thanks. There is no easy way of converting to a Diesel. I'd recommend finding a truck that is a Diesel and take it's engine, transmission and transfer case and putting them in the Grand Wagoneer. You'll need to modify the fuel system, wiring and possibly the mounts. Make sure the front driveshaft is on the same side. :) I'd suggest looking for a Chevy with a 6.5L Turbo Diesel out if a 4x4. Let me know how it works out, I've given thought to doing this myself, but never got around to doing it. :) john meister ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 10:06:34 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Correct Distributor Vacuum A: There is supposed to be vac only off idle till 3/4 throttle. Full throttle opens the carb all the way, and intake vacuum drops to near zero. That's why no ping occurs at WOT. If you restrict the amount of vac advance, that will help. Getting the dist recurved helps too. From: JeepNut Subject: Re: fsj: Correct Distributor Vacuum Hi Frazier, I don't see that anyone has replied on the list, but I'm curious to know what you've learned if you get any dialog going at all re: this. Mine has done that for a couple of years now, pings under medium light acceleration and not when you floor it. I've replaced nearly all things vacuum related in my attempt to squelch this irritating ping to no avail. Colder plugs, bypassing this and that as tests, etc. Cold vac at the distributor advance is 15 during cold high idle, if you kick it down it should still maintain a min. of 7 as the Non Linear Valve has control of the vacumn while the engine is still a little chilly and it's purpose in life is to maintain at least 7hg vac. until the engine gets warmer. Once the CTO valve opens, (155 or 160 IIRC) it seems to run down to near 0 during a warm idle, so if it is truly warmed up, then 10 is too high. Check the CTO for ops. Let me know if you want to toss this back and forth. I've tried everything short of a new EGR, because it tests good, and a new timing chain, which I am sure is worn out. (199,260+ miles on her today, timing chain was replaced at 70K by DSPO). BTW I have some out-of-town work next week and have no access from the road, so will be out of contact for list mail during the entire next week. JeepNut ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:08:19 -0500 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: Re: fsj: jeeptech engine pics There's an open question......since I just did this over the summer..... Don't trust the rebuilder....retorque all bolts. Make sure you pack the oil pump with vaseline. I strongly recommend the edelbrock cam and valve train parts. Replace the distributor, replace the water pump, replace the fan clutch, replace the power steering and hoses, if alternator is old, replace that too. Runs up the bill a bit but you have very little to worry about afterwards. If you get the edelbrock intake manifold, you need a special edelbrock part (or you can make one) for a bracket to move the throttle linkage over to accomodate a four barrel carb. My 360 runs great and I have about 3,000 miles on it now. Don't forget loc tight on your flex plate and torque converter. After a few hundred miles, check for leaks and loose hose clamps and such. Parts: AMC 360 from City Motor Supply DFW, Texas Edelbrock manifold, carb, cam, lifters, springs, chain and sprockets. Edelbrock valve covers and 15" air cleaner. K&N air filter New water pump and fan clutch New PS pump and hoses (had to make the low pressure hose) Already had a fairly new alternator New battery cables and starter cable New starter I ended up replacing the coil and the brain box and the column switch during a very bad week when I was trying to get running for Ouray. Took my Wagoneer to Iowa last week for coyote hunting. Went up some nice trails and steep hills and the torque was incredible! My '81 would climb right up the side of a building if I let it! Drag raced a guy in a chevy with a 350 light to light and he could not beat me off the line.... AND that was while hauling fat men and iron! I'm very satisfied. Engine has real serious HP and torque that starts at about 3,000 on the tach. I took it slowly up to around 100 mph while home in Iowa. It was still steadily gaining speed at the time.... Idles slightly rough with the cam. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer '99 TJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Loxtercamp" Subject: Re: fsj: jeeptech engine pics Before you put it in, I would suggest replacing the water pump if it has unknown years on it. That's a cheap replacement that is much easier to do now than when installed. Anyone else know what else is a should do when replacing an engine??? Greg - --- Dan Black wrote: > It looks like you are the one who maintains the jeeptech.com engine > pages; is this correct? > > I have a '74 Wagoneer with a 401, and I'm in the process of getting > a > rebuilt engine installed. After seeing your pages, I love all the > info > and pics, but I noticed the pics on the 401 page > ( http://www.jeeptech.com/engine/amc401.html ) are rather small and > of > a more "used" engine. So I took pics of my freshly rebuilt engine > when > it came back yesterday in case you have any interest. You're > welcome to > use any or all of the pics, and I'm not even concerned with credit. > You > can edit them however you want (or ask me to, especially if it's > just > downsizing or if you need thumbnails or something). I also won't > be > offended if you don't want to use them. > > All pics are 1600x1200, and only a few came out blurry. Generally, > the > ones with a "1" at the end of the filename were taken with the > flash, > and "2" were without (hence the blurriness of some of them -- I > should've used the tripod). The flash pictures are probably better > overall; the comparative darkness of the background even makes the > engine stand out a bit more. Anyway, the pics are at: > > http://129.186.79.84/FSJ/AMC401/ > > There's also an AMC401.zip file in that directory that has all the > pics > in one archive for easier downloading. > > I do request that you don't link anything directly to that server, > though; it's my work machine, and not officially for private use. > (And > I may not leave the pics there long-term.) > > > I'm also cc:ing this to the digest.net FSJ list for two reasons -- > so > they can also grab the 401 pics if they want, and to let everybody > know > about jeeptech.com if you didn't already. Go check it out! > > - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - --- > Lemme in, Pike! I'm hungry! > -- Ben > -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 12:13:09 -0500 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: RE: fsj: '88 D44 axle spline count -- HELP! Dan, If it's from an 88 then you should have the 30 spline axles. AFAIK all of the late model 44's had a 30 spline axle. I'd be willing to bet money that it's a 30 spline axle. Of course it's not too hard to pull the shaft and check it out. Just count the splines to make sure (I'm 99% positive it's a 30 spline axle) Scott Dan Black wrote: Hey, I'm still trying to find out what the spline count would be for my rear axle. Does anybody have any idea? It's an '88 GWag with the stock D44 (and stock 2.72 gears for now). The only thing I found on Google was, not surprisingly, on John's site: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests/FSJ-v1-700/fsj-digest-v1-724.txt >Any '77-'79 FSJ has the beefiest Dana 44 front and rear axles versions >ever made. All with the thick tubes, 30 spline rear axles, HD spindles and >30 spline inner-19 spline outers up front. This is more of a late '70s >advantage over the previous FSJs. The Dana 44 rear axle is only a minor >advantage over '80s FSJs with the Dana 20 and the '80s FSJs also retained >the thick tube front housings. Of course, in late '86 and up Jeep went with D44's in back again (without any inner grease seals, which makes things simpler), so the only advantage of the earlier ones is the gear ratios available. So it doesn't say for sure on the late 80s models, but chances are it's a 30 spline count -- sound reasonable? More importantly, does anybody know for sure? (30 is actually what I was hoping for.) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 08:54:47 -0600 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: engine weights... The AMC weight looks like a short block. I think the weight on the shipping manifest for my long block engine was in excess of 600 lbs. And THAT was without timing cover, distributor, manifolds, etc..... My fully assembled engine was EXTREMELY heavy. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" At 09:44 PM 10/21/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >A quick internet search,with one more quick search for a second opinion,gave >me these engine weights: > >Small block Chevy V8-575 LBS. >AMC V8- 540 LBS. >Jag V12 680 lBS. This doesn't look right. http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Engines/swapchart.html Not terribly far off if my info is correct... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 16:53:44 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Thanks for The Steering Column Repair Guide At 07:49 PM 10/27/2002 -0500, Buffy Mack wrote: >Chris or John, > I m not sure which one of you is responsible for posting the web site > on repairing a Jeep Wagoneer tilt steering wheel, > http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/steering-column.html, > but it was a life saver. I own a 88 Chevy K-5 Blazer, but recognized the > steering column on your we site as the same as a GM being a former owner > of several Jeep CJ-5s (they all used GM steering columns too). If your > ever interested, I found some great links to an AMC racing club in Texas > that helped me modify a 360 (which ironically came out of a Wagoneer) > using 343 flat top pistons (gives higher compression), Chevy roller > rockers, Edelgbrock intake and carb&they had a neat trick for an oil > bypass line to extend the life of rear main bearings too. Although I > sold that jeep, it was a stump jumper. The other jeep I had I installed > a Ford top loader 4-speed using Novak Enterprises adapters, Detroit > locker in the rear, and Power-Lok up front with 4:56 gears. That jeep > had a 304. > >Anyway, my tilt steering in my Blazer started to wobble about 2 months ago >and has gotten progressively worse. I had a few options in mind including >swapping out the entire column, but the idea of giving up that easily didn >t sit well with me. Anyway, reading through your web site this weekend >gave me the umph to go for it and I did&successfully. Since you went to >such extremes to document the procedure, I decided to do the same and kept >a digital camera handy each step of the way. I intend to develop a web >site post of my experience, which will be similar to yours. Your details >were great. Thanks-A-Million. > > I was also pleased to see someone sticking their neck out on the > Internet with a bold and humble witness to Yahshua the Messiah (Jesus), > his word, etc..(i.e., your links to the bible)&.Praise Yahshua!!! Keep > fighting the good fight. > >The Linux stuff was cool too (in fact, I just finished loading up a dual >boot system (XP on one drive and Redhat 8.0 on the other) about two weeks >ago&so far so good. It s a small world, huh. > >FYI&if you d like to add a link to another steering wheel repair guide, >check out: http://www.aros.net/~rbuck/column/tiltcol.html. >Thanks again John and Chris. >Peace from above, >Chris Mack >Mt. Pleasant, SC >mackman-at-comcast.net You're welcome. I'd been through my column more then once, took pictures but never got around to doing a good job of writing it up. Chris did the write up and I put it together on my site. :) Glad you found the other info useful too... ttyl, john ============================================================= The just shall live by Faith... Der Gerechte wird aus Glauben leben... Mas El Justo vivira Por Fe... Le Juste vivra par la foi... Habakkuk 2:4b, Romans 1:17, Galations 3:11, Hebrews 10:38 ============================================================= Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 There is no other name... Acts 4:12 ============================================================= john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com http://www.helpmewithbiblestudy.org/ http://www.freegift.net/ - can you pass this test? http://www.wagoneers.com/BIBLE what about Islam? see: http://www.persecution.com/news/index.cfm?action=article&NewsId=111 ============================================================= ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1779 **************************