From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Dec 4 15:34:02 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Wednesday, December 4 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1805 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: RE: RE: Re: Fear the Deer Re: fsj: Fear the Deer Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: Re: RE: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: Re: parts interchangeability and jim fsj: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: Re: THE vehicle for John? - yeah!!! fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: Re: question about wagoneer Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: Re: Fear the Deer fsj: Re: parts interchangeability and jim fsj: Re: parts interchangeability and jim FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 23:45:48 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer It's in the today's paper in Seattle. In sundays paper they ran a part about how they are closing the borders between states for traveling reindeer that go to shows because of the outbreak. We also know how slow the gov't is to respond to anything! I'll find it and scan it for the non-believers. In the meantime, you can check this link: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/98006_reindeer02.shtml PS: All Eagle parts may not be interchangeable with FSJs, but no-one can say I said that either! I have said a LOT of parts interchange, and I'll stand by that (having done the swaps personally) John once tried to tell me the motors and trannies were different. Then why did they fit my '83 Cherokee full size? I also sold an Eagle case that went into a local FSJ. It bolted in, but needed the front output swapped to bolt the front shaft up. John took that to be a conversion and it was a 1 bolt operation! As far as the cases go, most of my info comes direct from New Venture (along with part numbers) or I have done the testing myself. John needed a spacer to go from an AW4 to NP219. I tested a NP242 on a 727, not the other way around. We were wrong in assuming it would fit either way, but somehow, that was wrong and my fault. (Zach at New Venture was surprised it didn't fit either, but mentioned there were several different input gear depths, but John didn't want to open his case up) - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" To: "'Jim B'" ; "fsj" Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:21 PM Subject: RE: Re: Fear the Deer > Jim, > > What newspaper did you read that in? The National Enquirer, The Star or > some other grocery store rag that claims Elvis had a love-child with > Aliens? I have a really hard time believing that 80 % of the US deer > population has C-J disease because a) this is the first time I've heard > this, b) the federal government hasn't halted hunting of deer and c) not > all Eagle parts are interchangable with FSJs... > > Paul Kershner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 00:16:54 -0800 From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" Subject: fsj: RE: RE: Re: Fear the Deer Jim, I did some surfing and you are partially right about the disease. Its actually called Chronic Wasting Disease which is similar to CJD in that it is a BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy), it is a related form of Mad Cow and CJD has been linked to a variant of Mad Cow Disease. It is not CJD. On the other hand, I didn't see anything with numbers close to 80%... And who knows, maybe Elvis does have an alien love-child? Paul Kershner - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Paul and Megan Kershner Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:22 PM To: 'Jim B'; fsj Subject: fsj: RE: Re: Fear the Deer Jim, What newspaper did you read that in? The National Enquirer, The Star or some other grocery store rag that claims Elvis had a love-child with Aliens? I have a really hard time believing that 80 % of the US deer population has C-J disease because a) this is the first time I've heard this, b) the federal government hasn't halted hunting of deer and c) not all Eagle parts are interchangable with FSJs... Paul Kershner - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of Jim B Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 10:40 PM To: me Subject: fsj: Re: Fear the Deer A: According to the newspaper, nearly 80% of the deer in this country now have Creutzfeld-Jacob (sp?) and it is causing them to do stupid things like hang around roads to get hit by cars (the lack of rain for drinking and lack of feed in the hills doesn't help) Those thinking of going hunting should beware of this as it is Mad Cow related! (and I like venison!) From: john Subject: Fear the Deer I want to get my wife's WJ an ARB bull bar... my J10 has the factory brush guard and so does my son's Cherokee... I have a cheap one on my XJ, not sure how well it would do... It bolts to the existing joke of a bumper. I had a nice Aussie Bull Bar on the little wagoneer. BTW, where are you in MT? john ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:43:38 -0500 From: Mike Polkki Subject: Re: fsj: Fear the Deer CWD is a growing threat to Deer populations. It is spread more often than not, By captive deer. Deer farmers have hearded deer with cows in the winter so that they don't have to deal with two heards. They feed them all in the same place. this is how deer get CWD. Then when the deer farm sells the deer to another state the CWD goes with them. This is what happened in Wisconsin. I hunted In Wyoming this year and Our Deer were clean but one guy from another Hunting party took a deer with CWD. He didn't know it until the butcher found it. C-J is a brain destroying disease. Honestly it is what 80% of alzheimer's patients die from. that is where the 80% number is from. I don't even theink 5% of the nationwide deer population has C-J. Maybe 80% of the deer population DOESN'T have CWD. I will check up on this Mike ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 08:50:10 -0800 (PST) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer Ummmm... REINDEER?! I don't remember them listed on my hunting license! ;-) Alex - --- Jim B wrote: > It's in the today's paper in Seattle. In sundays paper they ran a > part about how they are closing the borders between states for traveling > reindeer that go to shows because of the outbreak. We also know how slow the > gov't is to respond to anything! I'll find it and scan it for the > non-believers. In the meantime, you can check this link: > http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/98006_reindeer02.shtml > > > PS: All Eagle parts may not be interchangeable with FSJs, but no-one can say > I said that either! I have said a LOT of parts interchange, and I'll stand > by that (having done the swaps personally) John once tried to tell me the > motors and trannies were different. Then why did they fit my '83 Cherokee > full size? I also sold an Eagle case that went into a local FSJ. It bolted > in, but needed the front output swapped to bolt the front shaft up. John > took that to be a conversion and it was a 1 bolt operation! As far as the > cases go, most of my info comes direct from New Venture (along with part > numbers) or I have done the testing myself. John needed a spacer to go from > an AW4 to NP219. I tested a NP242 on a 727, not the other way around. We > were wrong in assuming it would fit either way, but somehow, that was wrong > and my fault. (Zach at New Venture was surprised it didn't fit either, but > mentioned there were several different input gear depths, but John didn't > want to open his case up) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" > To: "'Jim B'" ; "fsj" > Sent: Monday, December 02, 2002 11:21 PM > Subject: RE: Re: Fear the Deer > > > > Jim, > > > > What newspaper did you read that in? The National Enquirer, The Star or > > some other grocery store rag that claims Elvis had a love-child with > > Aliens? I have a really hard time believing that 80 % of the US deer > > population has C-J disease because a) this is the first time I've heard > > this, b) the federal government hasn't halted hunting of deer and c) not > > all Eagle parts are interchangable with FSJs... > > > > Paul Kershner ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. ================================================================================= Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 09:23:46 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: RE: Re: Fear the Deer I called the paper when I couldn't find the part of the paper that was in, (my wife shredded it for rabbit bedding) and I was told the correct quote was "Scientists fear up to 80% COULD become infected soon if something isn't done about it" so I stand partially corrected. Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" To: "'Jim B'" ; "'fsj'" Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 12:16 AM Subject: RE: RE: Re: Fear the Deer > Jim, > > I did some surfing and you are partially right about the disease. Its > actually called Chronic Wasting Disease which is similar to CJD in that > it is a BSE (Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy), it is a related form of > Mad Cow and CJD has been linked to a variant of Mad Cow Disease. It is > not CJD. On the other hand, I didn't see anything with numbers close to > 80%... > > And who knows, maybe Elvis does have an alien love-child? > > Paul Kershner ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:54:28 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: parts interchangeability and jim At 11:45 PM 12/2/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: >PS: All Eagle parts may not be interchangeable with FSJs, glad you're finally figuring that out... :) I've also learned that the only parts that interchange between and FSJ and an XJ are the U-joints and headlights (if you have square headlights). Nothing else is the same. Same thing is pretty much true between the ZJ and the WJ. So many bad things that I hear about the Grand Cherokee from certain people are all based on the ZJ model, not the WJ. I think the literature says only 129 parts are the same between the ZJ and the WJ. I only know of about 4 parts between the XJ and the SJ. ;) >but no-one can say I said that either! I have said a LOT of parts >interchange, >and I'll stand by that (having done the swaps personally) all the parts we've tried to interchange between eagle, xj and sj didn't work, to my recollection. :) So far I've not seen anything interchange Jim... But then again we've only tried to swap a few pieces around... we haven't cataloged the entire rig or anything. :) And if I've got to disassemble something, modify it and put it back together again to work, that ain't a swap, that's a conversion, and I'll stand by that too. ;) >John once tried to tell me the motors and trannies were different. Funny I don't remember that... the motors and trans should be the same, you've been the one talking about 904s, 999s and 727s being mixed and matched. So, I might have said the trannies are different. The 258 in the eagle might have a different intake manifold if I remember right, but everything else sure looks the same... until we've tried to interchange parts... wasn't it an intake manifold from an eagle we tried to fit to my J10? Can't remember now... You tried to help me out with SuperDawg with a few Eagle parts and it didn't work out... :( Nice try, and I appreciated your help... but to my recollection we couldn't use anything for my situation... >Then why did they fit my '83 Cherokee full size? Why does the '79 Golden Eagle have a 304? :) Didn't come that way stock... :) Nice thing about FSJs is you can swap just about anything into them... :) >I also sold an Eagle case that went into a local FSJ. It bolted >in, but needed the front output swapped to bolt the front shaft up. John >took that to be a conversion and it was a 1 bolt operation! when you swap out stock parts to make something work, even if it's one bolt, you've converted it... it's NOT a simple drop in, now is it? :) A little filing, a little bolting, a little welding, a big flippin' hammer and you can just about make anything work... oh yeah, might need to use the handyman's secret weapon too... ;) >As far as the cases go, most of my info comes direct from New Venture >(along with part >numbers) or I have done the testing myself. John needed a spacer to go from >an AW4 to NP219. yep... it's not just about spline count... :) >I tested a NP242 on a 727, not the other way around. Yeah, but who in their right mind would keep a 727 out of a Jeep when you could have a 4 speed automatic that will go 300,000 miles without problems, versus a piece of crap that is lucky to go 60,000 miles before it needs to be replaced... who was the moron that decided not to pump fluid through the cooler when in park anyway? I always thought that Chrysler trannies were the best... maybe in the '60s, but not now... junk. I'm also somewhat confused about the 242 vs. the 219, I wonder which one has a wider chain... seems to me what Zach said about the numbering scheme seems that the 242 would be stronger... and I paid way too much for that adapter, wasn't paying attention... could have bought a good 242 to mate directly up to my AW4 and had a SYE installed... argghhhh... dumb, dumb, dumb... The 219 Quadratrac is a nice unit though, so it's not all a bad thing... my 242's have always given me fits when trying to shift between modes... the 219 goes in and out of emergency drive flawlessly and low range with little difficulty, so I guess it'll be alright... the only reason for 2wd would be to try and do burnouts, not likely to happen in Superdawg anyway... ;) >We were wrong in assuming it would fit either way, but somehow, that was wrong >and my fault. (Zach at New Venture was surprised it didn't fit either, but >mentioned there were several different input gear depths, but John didn't >want to open his case up) Opening cases is against my rules. ;) You see I can get 'em open, but I haven't taken the class on how to put them back together again... ;) rofl... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:13:05 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Fear the Deer At 10:40 PM 12/2/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: >A:... and it is causing them to do stupid things like >hang around roads to get hit by cars (the lack of rain for drinking and lack >of feed in the hills doesn't help) the explanation I've heard from many people I know who are recognized experts on the subject say it's the drought conditions that are forcing the deer down into populated areas, where we just happened to have rudely placed high speed interstates... I've heard nothing about this mad-cow disease either, know of several hunters who haven't mentioned it either... (my brother-in-law who I visited with in SD has been a guide for years, another friend in MT has already gotten 3 "big game" items this year, one in his back yard! :) No mention of any disease... something like that travels pretty fast among folks that turn this meat into venison salami and roasts... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:16:36 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: THE vehicle for John? - yeah!!! At 09:07 PM 12/3/2002 +0000, diesel-benz-digest wrote: >Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 13:07:06 -0700 >From: "Cordova, Carlos (Alec)" >Subject: THE vehicle for John? > >http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=7452d8705d6305f2582e59846c2c4599&threadid=92496 oh yeah, I want it, I really, really want it... Someone have a TD body they're not using? I have a nice '77 Cherokee frame, 108" wheelbase just sitting in the yard... serious... this thing looks cool... :) I think it looks better then if a 300D had been used... tempting, very, very tempting... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-2.jpg SJ Jeeps: 360/401: TS-23 258: TS-12 retail $21.50 XJ Jeeps: 4.0L/2.5L('87 and up): TS-29 retail $29.95 WJ Jeeps: 4.7L: TS-104 retail $47.50 DieselBenz: typical S1118 or S1680 retail $32.50 or $39.85 http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ order 1-800-956-5695 cust# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:20:38 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer At 11:45 PM 12/2/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: >It's in the today's paper in Seattle. In sundays paper they ran a >part about how they are closing the borders between states for traveling >reindeer that go to shows because of the outbreak. We also know how slow the >gov't is to respond to anything! I'll find it and scan it for the >non-believers. In the meantime, you can check this link: >http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/98006_reindeer02.shtml this talks about reindeer... true to form the media reports more fluff then fact... :( thanx for sharing jim... guess I won't be bringing any reindeer home anytime soon... ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 12:58:16 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: question about wagoneer At 03:55 PM 12/3/2002 -0500, Slowmuse2-at-aol.com wrote: >the wagoneer is an 85 I don't have a newer FSJ around, I'd recommend getting on the list and asking someone to make the measurements you'd like on their rig. :) john ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:51:12 -0800 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 08:50:10AM -0800, Alexander Wall wrote: > Ummmm... REINDEER?! I don't remember them listed on my hunting license! > > ;-) You mean you don't sit on the roof with the rifle christmas eve and wait for santa claus to cruise by? Come on. You *KNOW* Rudolph would make a bitchin trophy, even though the meat might be a bit gamey. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 14:54:01 -0800 (PST) From: Alexander Wall Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fear the Deer You mean you have to have a license to do that? Oops! Alex - --- Kevin Pekarek wrote: > On Tue, Dec 03, 2002 at 08:50:10AM -0800, Alexander Wall wrote: > > Ummmm... REINDEER?! I don't remember them listed on my hunting license! > > > > ;-) > > You mean you don't sit on the roof with the rifle christmas eve and wait for > santa claus to cruise by? > > Come on. You *KNOW* Rudolph would make a bitchin trophy, even though the meat > might be a bit gamey. > > K > > -- > Kevin Pekarek > Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and > Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) > 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) > 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. ================================================================================= Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:26:39 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: Fear the Deer For the animals to just hang around paved roadways (where there is no food and cars full of humans go rushing past), when there are open pastures all around, as well as streams, in the words of Hank Hill "They just ain't right!" Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Jim B" ; > At 10:40 PM 12/2/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: > >A:... and it is causing them to do stupid things like > >hang around roads to get hit by cars (the lack of rain for drinking and lack > >of feed in the hills doesn't help) > > > the explanation I've heard from many people I know who > are recognized experts on the subject say it's the > drought conditions that are forcing the deer down into > populated areas, where we just happened to have rudely placed > high speed interstates... > > I've heard nothing about this mad-cow disease either, know of > several hunters who haven't mentioned it either... (my brother-in-law > who I visited with in SD has been a guide for years, another friend > in MT has already gotten 3 "big game" items this year, one in his > back yard! :) No mention of any disease... something like that > travels pretty fast among folks that turn this meat into venison > salami and roasts... > > john > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:33:34 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: parts interchangeability and jim PS: Most of the ZJ trouble I have seen is from the wiring being designed for minimum ratings, rather than expecting other things to be added. Like the ignition switch for example. It has so much crap hanging off it and running through it, that it reminds me of a 2 plug electric outlet behind the Christmas tree at Goober's house! Put in a higher output than stock stereo, and it's "Hey y'all watch this!" as the magic smoke comes out. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 17:27:58 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: parts interchangeability and jim A: I have NEVER said all Eagle parts interchanged with FSJ stuff. I HAVE said which ones WILL interchange that I know of. (usually with part numbers to back it up or having physically fit or used them personally) The one time this failed was the transfercase thing, where I fit it one way (NP249 onto the adapter sleeve for the 727), and we assumed, or at least I did, that it would fit the other way as well. Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 More answers below: - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" > At 11:45 PM 12/2/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: > >PS: All Eagle parts may not be interchangeable with FSJs, > > glad you're finally figuring that out... :) I've also learned > that the only parts that interchange between and FSJ and an XJ > are the U-joints and headlights (if you have square headlights). > Nothing else is the same. (snip) A: When I bolted the 4.0L into my J10, I used the XJ PS pump because I didn't want to run Vee belts anymore. I'm still going with the GM style alternator because they are cheap, reasonably reliable and easy to replace if they do go out. Much cheaper now than they used to be, and definitely cheaper than an XJ alt! (I now have at least 2 of those for sale cheap! I'll even test them at work! ) >Same thing is pretty much true between > the ZJ and the WJ. So many bad things that I hear about the Grand > Cherokee from certain people are all based on the ZJ model, not the > WJ. I think the literature says only 129 parts are the same between > the ZJ and the WJ. I only know of about 4 parts between the XJ and the SJ. ;) A: There are a lot more than that between an Eagle and a FSJ (both 6 cyls that is!) The AMC Eagle ('80 to '88 only!) is basically the same 6 as the '80 up FSJ, but with the lighter duty, but more fuel economical auto trans and single speed version of the FSJ transfercase. They came with the same weak light duty T-5 for std trans as your truck did originally. The parts that interchange that I know of are: 4.2L motor (intake was the same as Jeep '81 and newer. It was the '71 2 bbl intake you got from someone on the AMC-list, whose name escapes me at the moment, that didn't work because the early ones were joined intake and exhaust. You got both my intake and exhaust to put on but you needed the EGR pipe to join them. They were the original ones from my '83 Cherokee BTW. The Eagle ones fit in their place, complete with the motor.) The alt, starter (till FSJ went to redux drive), waterpump (vee belt only), brackets, motor mounts (I used the Energy Suspension mounts I bought for my Eagle in Elmo and Black Jack, which als fit CJs), AC compressors (which also fit some XJs), BBD carbs and carb computers with matching numbers, and more that I can't think of off the top of my head. As for Eagle stuff fitting XJ, there is the rear axle, but since they are 2 piece shafts, it's better to go the other way! (FYI: front axle "gears only" interchange with CJ, not XJ) cruise control. Motor works with external parts swapped, which you would do if you bought a wrecking yard motor most of the time too. > > >but no-one can say I said that either! I have said a LOT of parts > >interchange, > >and I'll stand by that (having done the swaps personally) > > all the parts we've tried to interchange between eagle, xj and sj didn't > work, to my recollection. :) So far I've not seen anything interchange > Jim... But then again we've only tried to swap a few pieces around... we > haven't cataloged the entire rig or anything. :) And if I've got to > disassemble > something, modify it and put it back together again to work, that ain't a swap, > that's a conversion, and I'll stand by that too. ;) > A: Switching external linkage is considered a conversion? That's a little TOO fru-fru! LOL! > >John once tried to tell me the motors and trannies were different. > > Funny I don't remember that... the motors and trans should be the same, > you've been the one talking about 904s, 999s and 727s being mixed and matched. > So, I might have said the trannies are different. > > The 258 in the eagle might have a different intake manifold if I remember > right, > but everything else sure looks the same... until we've tried to interchange > parts... wasn't it an intake manifold from an eagle we tried to fit to my J10? A: That was from a Rambler. You bought them because they were cheaper! > Can't remember now... You tried to help me out with SuperDawg with a few > Eagle parts and it didn't work out... :( Nice try, and I appreciated your > help... but to my recollection we couldn't use anything for my situation... > > >Then why did they fit my '83 Cherokee full size? > > Why does the '79 Golden Eagle have a 304? :) Didn't come that way stock... :) > Nice thing about FSJs is you can swap just about anything into them... :) > > >I also sold an Eagle case that went into a local FSJ. It bolted > >in, but needed the front output swapped to bolt the front shaft up. John > >took that to be a conversion and it was a 1 bolt operation! > > when you swap out stock parts to make something work, even if it's one bolt, > you've converted it... it's NOT a simple drop in, now is it? :) > A: If it's something external that doesn't take long to switch, then it IS a simple swap! When you have to change input gears or swap chains, then it's a conversion! > A little filing, a little bolting, a little welding, a big flippin' hammer > and you can just about make anything work... oh yeah, might need to use the > handyman's secret weapon too... ;) > > > >As far as the cases go, most of my info comes direct from New Venture > >(along with part > >numbers) or I have done the testing myself. John needed a spacer to go from > >an AW4 to NP219. > > yep... it's not just about spline count... :) > > >I tested a NP242 on a 727, not the other way around. > > Yeah, but who in their right mind would keep a 727 out of a Jeep when > you could have a 4 speed automatic that will go 300,000 miles without problems, > versus a piece of crap that is lucky to go 60,000 miles before it needs > to be replaced... who was the moron that decided not to pump fluid through > the cooler when in park anyway? I always thought that Chrysler trannies were > the best... maybe in the '60s, but not now... junk. A: Even the AW4 won't last long w/o a cooler! Jeep discovered that in later models. Only 60K on a 727? How was it used/abused? I bet most on the list have seen over 100K! Considering it's a dinosaur design, it's doing pretty good! In fact, if Chrysler had made their overdrive a little better, I would have put the 888 (overdrive version of the 727) into more than 1 vehicle by now (they come stock in the ZJ behind the 4.0L, which means they would bolt up to a 360 with some adaptation. Easier than say a 700R4 conversion, but since it's not as strong, why bother?) > I'm also somewhat confused about the 242 vs. the 219, I wonder which one > has a wider chain... seems to me what Zach said about the numbering scheme > seems that the 242 would be stronger... and I paid way too much for that > adapter, wasn't paying attention... could have bought a good 242 to mate > directly up to my AW4 and had a SYE installed... argghhhh... dumb, dumb, > dumb... A: For a little more than the price of the case rebuild and SYE, you could get a BRAND NEW NV241, which is even higher rated and has a 4:1 low range. (about $2500) I have test fit it to the 23 spline AW4 and it fits perfect. Drive shafts need to be changed for length, but just putting in the AW4 makes that a given anyway. The NP219 comes with just one width of chain, whereas the NP, then NV242 have at least 2 widths that I know of, plus the HD version in Hummers and Diesels. > The 219 Quadratrac is a nice unit though, so it's not all a bad thing... my > 242's have always given me fits when trying to shift between modes... the > 219 goes in and out of emergency drive flawlessly and low range with little > difficulty, so I guess it'll be alright... the only reason for 2wd would be > to try and do burnouts, not likely to happen in Superdawg anyway... ;) A: I didn't do burnouts with Elmo or Black Jack in 2WD (not often anyways! ) but I guess it takes a little control! FWIW, my Comanche has a separate switch for the front axle, so I can shift to 4 lo, which is really 2 lo, for towing stuff on dry ground that is very steep (with only 110 HP to throw around when it was new, there isn't much extra at 185,000 miles!) > >We were wrong in assuming it would fit either way, but somehow, that was wrong > >and my fault. (Zach at New Venture was surprised it didn't fit either, but > >mentioned there were several different input gear depths, but John didn't > >want to open his case up) > > Opening cases is against my rules. ;) You see I can get 'em open, but I > haven't taken the class on how to put them back together again... ;) rofl... > > john A: That's the nice thing about a yoke swap. It's external, and allows you to ensure the seal is in good shape by replacing it BEFORE you put the case in the Jeep! ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1805 **************************