From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 12 16:53:27 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, December 12 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1810 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: solenoid - jeep won't start fsj: Re: John Sings The Jaacobs Blues Again fsj: Re: panhard bars fsj: RE: Re: panhard bars fsj: RE: Re: panhard bars fsj: Re: 1981 Jeep Wagoneer Questions? fsj: RE: Re: panhard bars [none] fsj: Re: Re: panhard bars FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:29:43 -0600 From: "John Pettit" Subject: fsj: solenoid - jeep won't start I was wondering why my Wagoneer doesn't start - even though I've put on a new solenoid.... It starts right up when I bypass the solenoid, but I've tried replacing them and it still doesn't start... The battery is fine and the starter is too. I was wondering if there were any other things to check... Thanks! John P. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:56:50 -0800 (PST) From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: fsj: Re: John Sings The Jaacobs Blues Again I've got a Jacob's Omnipak in my '81 Cherokee that has been going strong for over 6 years. Small sample size, I know....but now you can't say that EVERYONE has problems.....;-) Tom Anhalt '81 Cherokee Laredo Santa Barbara, CA Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 21:47:58 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: panhard bars At 08:00 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: >A: In '82 they were still calling the full size Wagoneers. BTW, There was >a slight suspension change in '84. The rear spring mounts were moved up >slightly, causing a minimum 1" drop in the suspension (to go with the >Panhard rear bars) I thought it was 86 that they went to the panhard bars... not sure... I haven't seen too many later model FSJs... the '85 I parted MAY have had one in the front, but not the rear... if memory serves correct. Curtis will correct me... of course I could look at the pictures of parting it out too... ;) btw, they call them track bars in the Jeep world... not sure why they decided to use them with leaf springs. In the XJ world they're responsible for the "wobble o' death". Hey, Paul, does that '84 deerslayer of yours have panhard bars? Curtis, does rocky have 'em? (should he's an '86, right? ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:00:31 -0800 From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: panhard bars Whatsa panhard bar or trackbar? Paul Kershner - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of john Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2002 9:48 PM To: Jim B Cc: fsj-at-digest.net; Jeepbuilder-attbi.com :; Paul Kershner Subject: fsj: Re: panhard bars At 08:00 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: >A: In '82 they were still calling the full size Wagoneers. BTW, There was >a slight suspension change in '84. The rear spring mounts were moved up >slightly, causing a minimum 1" drop in the suspension (to go with the >Panhard rear bars) I thought it was 86 that they went to the panhard bars... not sure... I haven't seen too many later model FSJs... the '85 I parted MAY have had one in the front, but not the rear... if memory serves correct. Curtis will correct me... of course I could look at the pictures of parting it out too... ;) btw, they call them track bars in the Jeep world... not sure why they decided to use them with leaf springs. In the XJ world they're responsible for the "wobble o' death". Hey, Paul, does that '84 deerslayer of yours have panhard bars? Curtis, does rocky have 'em? (should he's an '86, right? ;) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:17:26 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: RE: Re: panhard bars A: It's the bar that goes from the frame to the axle housing to prevent side to side movement. If someone has one of those and takes the FSJ out jumping (like the '85 John had that I got the 2.72 rear axle from) the axle tube separates from the center housing on the Model 20s. (ring a bell now John?) It was about 1/2 way through '84 they started. I noticed the frame mount was higher up the side of the frame on the '84 I parted than Elmo, my '83 Cherokee. Oh, and on the XJ, they don't cause death wobble unless they are sloppy and the front end is out of alignment. I drove the last part of my trip from Ouray with my PS belt off to stop it from happening as bad. (The PS box reverses the vibration through the column, which causes the valve in the top of the steering box to think you are turning the wheel suddenly, so it adds it's power to the movement. The steering goes as far as the slop allows, then snaps back the other way, making the steering box think you are suddenly turning the other way. It picks up speed till it shakes so bad you fell like your teeth are going to fall out! >From: "Paul and Megan Kershner" >Whatsa panhard bar or trackbar? > >Paul Kershner > >At 08:00 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: > >A: In '82 they were still calling the full size Wagoneers. BTW, There >was > >a slight suspension change in '84. The rear spring mounts were moved up > > >slightly, causing a minimum 1" drop in the suspension (to go with the > >Panhard rear bars) > >I thought it was 86 that they went to the panhard bars... not >sure... I haven't seen too many later model FSJs... the '85 I parted >MAY have had one in the front, but not the rear... if memory serves >correct. >Curtis will correct me... of course I could look at the pictures of >parting >it out too... ;) > >btw, they call them track bars in the Jeep world... not sure why they >decided to use them with leaf springs. In the XJ world they're >responsible >for the "wobble o' death". > >Hey, Paul, does that '84 deerslayer of yours have panhard bars? >Curtis, does rocky have 'em? (should he's an '86, right? ;) > >john _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:21:04 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 1981 Jeep Wagoneer Questions? At 09:23 PM 12/10/2002 -0700, Mark Shepherd wrote: >John, > Your web page is great, as a fellow wagon lover it's nice to see. I > have a couple questions thou. > I have an 1981 Jeep Wagon - I have already replaced the stock 360 > with a built 401 edelbrock performer intake, blue printed 4-bbl carb, rv > style cam, the stock distributor was removed and replaced with an > MSD. Anyway now that the engine is capable of lots of power I need to > work on the tranny & axels. > I read that you were contemplating shifting from the TF727 to a > TH700r4 - where did you find the adapters to go from a AMC motor to the > tranny and then from it to the QuadraTrac? Actually I'm switching my 258 for a 4.0L with the Aisin Warner 4 speed Automatic. The 401 will mate up to the Aisin Warner ok, possibly with a few minor mods. However, you'll need a computer to control it... or you could do a manual switch box to do it. A lot of trouble... I think the AW4 would hold up to the 401, but it might be asking a lot of it. :) I've got one out in the drive that has 240,000 miles on the original tranny... :) running 31's on it, 3.54 gears... it's a bit sluggish... :) If you go with the 700R4 you'll need an adapter to make it so. Not cheap. To get my AW4 to mate to my NP219 I paid $65 for a chunk of metal then another $255 to get it machined... dumb, dumb, dumb. I could have had an NP242 and added a Slip Yoke Eliminator to mate to my driveshafts... It was one of those minor tactical errors. Hopefully we won't make any more of them. > I have thought about changing the stock axle gears from 2.73 to 3.54 > then shifting to a 31.5 tire, but my fear has been the combination would > push the rpms to an high point on the interstate - there for the .74 > ratio of the 4th gear in the th700r4 is very appealing. I've got it all worked out, gears, tires, check it out: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/GEARING/ > Also, any suggestions for the axles - keep origonal just change the > gears & carrier or total axle swap? Well, I've got a pair of Dana 44's from my son's 77 Cherokee, that you could use, you could get a TH400, build it to the hilt and use the Quadratrac on your rig... it'd handle the 401 just fine. It's got 3.54 gears in it, with a lockrite locker in the rear already. I've even got a spare TH400/QT I'll sell you with it. :) 32" tires with the 3.54's would put you around 2,250 rpm at 60mph. http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/tech/GEARING/355gears.html (old blue with 235's, 2.72's would tach about 1,700 at 60mph, if memory serves correctly... ) You're only a day's drive from me, I just went to Rapid City and stopped in Butte on the way there. :) Easy 7 to 8 hr drive to Helena. Shoot, I drove from Great Falls, through Glacier and still made it home the same day. :) > Thanks for the assistance you may have to offer in advance. >Cheers, > Mark Shepherd > East Helena, Montana > - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 22:23:03 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Re: panhard bars At 10:00 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: >Whatsa panhard bar or trackbar? > >Paul Kershner panhard or track bars mount to the frame on one side and the axle on the other. Typically they'll mount to the driver's side frame and then attach to the axle down by the spring perch on the passenger side. They are important for coil springs as they keep things lined up. I've had it explained to me why they improve handling or ride with leaf springs, but all it has done is create an extra clunking sound that friends with late model GW's wonder about. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 11:37:50 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: [none] I would have a hard time supporting this if someone tried to tell me early 360s and late 360s are not interchangeable in FSJs because there is a bushing on the crankshaft of one of them. - - Landon ================================ "when you swap out stock parts to make something work, even if it's one bolt, you've converted it... it's NOT a simple drop in, now is it? :) A little filing, a little bolting, a little welding, a big flippin' hammer and you can just about make anything work... oh yeah, might need to use the handyman's secret weapon too... ;)" ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:49:28 -0800 From: "Machinedoc" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: panhard bars The clunking is when the track bar bushings are worn out and the springs are allowed to flex side to side causing metal to contact metal. Curtis > At 10:00 PM 12/10/2002 -0800, Paul and Megan Kershner wrote: > >Whatsa panhard bar or trackbar? > > > >Paul Kershner > > panhard or track bars mount to the frame on one side and the axle on the > other. Typically they'll mount to the driver's side frame and > then attach to the axle down by the spring perch on the passenger side. > > They are important for coil springs as they keep things lined up. I've > had it explained to me why they improve handling or ride with leaf springs, > but all it has done is create an extra clunking sound that friends with > late model GW's wonder about. :) > > john > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1810 **************************