From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Dec 19 15:25:56 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, December 17 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1815 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: Re: fsj: window stickers Re: fsj: window stickers fsj: '89 GW-What to do? fsj: Re: t-85 Re: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? fsj: Part Number? Re: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? fsj: RE: the joy of XJs while working on SJs and fearing the WJs cost fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... RE: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:53:52 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: window stickers At 10:49 PM 12/15/2002 -0800, Jim B wrote: >Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:49:56 -0800 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >A: I have the window sticker from an '83 Eagle I had! (I used to have >the one from the Rambler, but my wife tossed it in a zealous cleaning fit) might be cool to see the '83 Eagle sticker to compare it to the FSJs. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Dec 2002 22:49:57 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: window stickers Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:49:56 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed A: I have the window sticker from an '83 Eagle I had! (I used to have the one from the Rambler, but my wife tossed it in a zealous cleaning fit) From: john would love the window stickers from a J10, is this the stepside? email jpg images any size (large is better) to john-at-wagoneers.com, or are you giving away the real one? ;) I'd like collect a few other window stickers for wagoneers.com, at least folks will be able to view them without jumping through yahoo hoops. ;) If I get a few more I'll make a separate section for them. I may try to reduce them in size a bit, but will save the big images. I've also got a build order from a couple of rigs, I think the '84(?) Grand Wagoneer Jim Blair and I parted and an XJ too. :) cool stuff. john _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:02:04 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Hi, Well, I was under the hood this weekend, poking around. Gas mileage has dropped to about 9.5 mpg, oil consumption has increased, and I'm trying to figure it out...checking timing, goosing the gas a little bit to check the response, and I notice, Hey, I can see the crank pulley move away from the front of the block about 1/8". So I show my wife, and isn't that neat, and crankshaft end play has been stated as a known problem with these engines and it wasn't fixed at the last rebuild time, and that was Saturday. Sunday I'm looking at it again, and now I hear WWWRREEEEEKK! when the pulley steps out. Uh-oh. Don't do that anymore. There's about 52K on this reuild. Is it rebuild time again? Oil pressure is still good. There's some valvetrain noise. Has anyone had luck (good/bad) with a used engine? Are we looking at a new crankshaft? - - Landon Austin, TX ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 15:13:35 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: t-85 At09:11 AM 12/16/2002 +0000, FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com wrote: > A: I could be wrong, but some time ago I was told T85 was floor shift, and >this is column shift. nope, my '67 Wag and '67 J3000 both had T-85's, column shifter... based on my research the T-15A was used prior to '76 behind the 232 and the 350, after '76 it saw more use. Behind the 327 was the T-85. My research was based on factory shop manuals. However, we have to remember that people swap stuff around... :) http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech/Transmissions/SJ-transmissions.html john > From: "Flint Boardman " >Jim, you sure it is a T15? I thought those had T85 3 speed... >Flint >--- In FSJparts-at-yahoogroups.com, "Jim B" wrote: >First $300 obo takes it along with T-15 > (3 speed std) and Dana >20. ========================================================================== For Full Size Jeep help see: http://wagoneers.com/FSJ http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/tech - technical information http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs - pictures of FSJ's http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-list.html - FSJ list on digest.net http://wagoneers.com/FSJ/digests - list digests more info at: http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/FSJ-info.html ========================================================================== Snohomish, Washington, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... remember, leaving life with out Jesus isn't recommended... ========================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:58:21 -0500 From: Mike Stitt Subject: Re: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Tesar, Well...time for a rebuild... what has happened is the thrust bushings have gone bad. Some say this is due to excessive hydraulic pressure buildup in the transmission...some say it is due to a bad torque converter. My Waggy is in the shop for a rebuild as we speak for the same reason with only 50k on the vehicle. If you are interested I know of a site that has some tech data about just this issue. Regards....Mike Stitt 87 waggy ============================================================ From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Date: 2002/12/16 Mon AM 10:02:04 EST To: "'fsj-at-digest.net'" Subject: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Hi, Well, I was under the hood this weekend, poking around. Gas mileage has dropped to about 9.5 mpg, oil consumption has increased, and I'm trying to figure it out...checking timing, goosing the gas a little bit to check the response, and I notice, Hey, I can see the crank pulley move away from the front of the block about 1/8". So I show my wife, and isn't that neat, and crankshaft end play has been stated as a known problem with these engines and it wasn't fixed at the last rebuild time, and that was Saturday. Sunday I'm looking at it again, and now I hear WWWRREEEEEKK! when the pulley steps out. Uh-oh. Don't do that anymore. There's about 52K on this reuild. Is it rebuild time again? Oil pressure is still good. There's some valvetrain noise. Has anyone had luck (good/bad) with a used engine? Are we looking at a new crankshaft? - - Landon Austin, TX ============================================================ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:01:55 -0500 From: Mike Stitt Subject: fsj: Part Number? Help... I stopped by the local Jeep "steeler" today to purchase rubber bumpers for the waggy's hood and the tail gate. They found the hood bumpers without a problem, but could not locate the tail gate rubber bumpers on the computer. Does anyone have the part number? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:11:57 -0500 From: Mike Stitt Subject: Re: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Tesar, Also, the Crank Shaft will need to be rebuilt as well and since the bushings that hold it in place have gone bad... there is a strong chance that metal bits have been circulated through the engine...not good... You are looking at about $2,700.00 for a rebuild and new torque converter... Rgds, Mike Stitt ============================================================ From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Date: 2002/12/16 Mon AM 10:02:04 EST To: "'fsj-at-digest.net'" Subject: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Hi, Well, I was under the hood this weekend, poking around. Gas mileage has dropped to about 9.5 mpg, oil consumption has increased, and I'm trying to figure it out...checking timing, goosing the gas a little bit to check the response, and I notice, Hey, I can see the crank pulley move away from the front of the block about 1/8". So I show my wife, and isn't that neat, and crankshaft end play has been stated as a known problem with these engines and it wasn't fixed at the last rebuild time, and that was Saturday. Sunday I'm looking at it again, and now I hear WWWRREEEEEKK! when the pulley steps out. Uh-oh. Don't do that anymore. There's about 52K on this reuild. Is it rebuild time again? Oil pressure is still good. There's some valvetrain noise. Has anyone had luck (good/bad) with a used engine? Are we looking at a new crankshaft? - - Landon Austin, TX ============================================================ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 12:49:49 +1100 From: "Veijo Phillips" Subject: fsj: RE: the joy of XJs while working on SJs and fearing the WJs cost John A 94 xj (sport) with around 150000-200000kms (93000-120000 miles) will go for around $AUD100000-13000 (remember that $1AUD buys $.50USD). For a 97-98 XJ (sport) expect to pay around $17000-$20000 AUD. The first XJ we saw here was in 94 and it was really funny that it was advertised as the 'all new jeep'. As for the WJ's we didn't see these untill 1999. A WJ (laredo 4.0) in this year will fetch around $27000-$30000AUD. Somthing around a 2000 model will fetch $33000-38000AUD, add about $4000 for the 4.7. If your interested in some of the other models and prices (including SJ) check out www.redbook.com.au I'm impressed with the 240000mile XJ, thats around 380000kms, WOW. Veijo - -----Original Message----- From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net]On Behalf Of john Sent: Sunday, 15 December 2002 10:07 AM To: fsj-at-digest.net; xj-at-digest.net; WJ-Grand-at-egroups.com; FSJ-List-yahoogroups.com Subject: fsj: the joy of XJs while working on SJs and fearing the WJs cost So, Veijo, for grins, what are XJs and WJs going for in the land of Oz? I've been looking at '97 and up XJ's, seems the price is about $10k to $15k. Not sure I want a car payment though. But I do like the newer style and features. WJ's seem to start out around $19k and go up from there, which is great if I decide to sell ours. :) (that ain't likely to happen, my wife has made that clear... it's her Jeep and that's that. ;) My '87 is rather basic, but the automatic and ac works, has a CD player and is getting around 16 to 17mpg in town with 31s and 3" of lift... not the quickest XJ I've ever had, but with 240,000 miles on the clock and no problems how can I complain? :) I don't mind the comfort of the WJ for road trips but don't enjoy it around town as much as my XJ or SJ. The lack of visibility, heavy low speed steering (replaced the PS pump even) and feeling of "bulk" makes it seem heavy and awkward, although it corners and handles extremely well and is amazingly quick/fast. (0to60mph in about 7.3 seconds) It's got a lot of nice features. I love the radio controls on the back of the steering wheel, wife loves the heated seats, I like the delay feature for the rear wiper and so on and so on. Lots of nice interior features like cupholders, plenty of room and so on. Road noise, possibly from the Michelin LTX's, bugs me a bit though. Not terrible, but noticeable. Of course if any SJ had the economy (and reliability and less annoying quality issues) of the XJ it'd be the pick of the litter. :) I know we've talked about getting 20mpg in an FSJ, I think it's possible if one upgrades to either an XJ or WJ driveline, or maybe a ZJ if it's the 4.0L. The Dodge/Chrysler v8's in the ZJ might be better then the AMC 360s, but not by much, at least in town. My '99 WJ gets 19 to 21 mpg on the interstate, almost 17mpg towing my utility trailer at 75mph... around town it's not so great, 13 to 15 maybe. My Xj's have always gotten around 15 to 17mpg in town, even with lifts and bigger tires. On the highway my economy doesn't seem to jump up much, 18 being the best I've seen. Except of course my '85 XJ with the 2.1L Turbo Diesel... 32 mpg on the interstate, 26 mpg in town... but it had other issues. ;) I think that if an SJ were upgraded with the WJ's 4.7 or 4.0L engine, trans/xfr case it could see close to 20mpg on the freeway. The SJ weighs in a bit more, ranging from 4,300 to 5,200lbs while the WJ seems to be right around 3,800 or so. My XJs seem to be in the 3,400 to 3,800 range. The extra weight of the FSJ seems to come from the full frame and more use of metal over plastic. :) My J10 weighs in around 4,100lbs, so the 4.0L conversion should work out pretty well. I hope. :) I'm still trying to decide if I want to spend more money "tightening" up my '87 XJ with 240,000 miles or get a newer one with all the options and fewer miles. I don't know if I'll want to keep the XJ after I get the J10 done or not. The XJ is nice for carrying folks around, especially since the WJ is the wife's. I doubt my wife will want to drive Superdawg. :) john meister snohomish, washington '87 cherokee pioneer (XJ) 240,000 miles and going strong '83 j10 stepside (SJ) (superdawg) undergoing frame off resto and 4.0L swap '99 grand cherokee limited (WJ) 4.7Lv8/quadradrive "wonder jeep" '67 jeep panel j-100 (SJ) son's collection: '77 SJ Cherokee (parting)/'79 SJ Golden Eagle cherokee At 08:07 PM 12/14/2002 +0000, fsj-digest wrote: >From: "Veijo Phillips" >Subject: fsj: RE: Re: [FSJ-List] Digest Number 1887 >I'll agree with this one. >When it's time to restore the GW I'll definatly be buying a xj for my daily >driver. > >I look at all the other four wheel drives available on the market here and >they're all just bulky, heavy gas guzzlers. The XJ is the only car that I >have come across that is 4WD, has room to carry what you need but is still a >smallish, easy to drive and very reliable, In fact I think the XJ has been >rated as one of the top buys in the used 4WD market. > >I'd love a WJ but i can't justify the $$$$ for a daily driver. The xj's are >starting to become quite cheap here in OZ and there were a huge amount >imported, so plently of spares. >The WJ is still quite new to us and the price of one is still triple the >price of an xj. > >I really do have a thing for my SJ's and will never ber able to get rid of >them but like you say when it comes to reliability and economy they just >don't cut it. > >Veijo >- -----Original Message----- >Sent: Thursday, 12 December 2002 7:01 PM > >OKay, baby Cherokees are good all-around station wagons. > >I beg to differ. I think the XJ is the best all around Jeep >ever built. It off-roads better then most of the other Jeep - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:17:02 -0600 From: Dave Read Subject: fsj: Re: pattern size on 5 bolt rims... John, 63-73 Wagoneers have a 5 on 5 1/2 inch bolt circle, not 5 on 5. Same as CJs. You also need a large center hole to clear the external mount locking hubs on the front axle. Late model Fords have internal mount hubs and their wheels have a smaller center hole. Dave ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 10:39:04 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: RE: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Ouch. Thanks, Mike. I think. What were the symptoms on yours that prompted your rebuild decision. Hmm, is there a way to test for a bad torque converter? - - Landon - -----Original Message----- From: Mike Stitt [mailto:mg_stitt-at-bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, December 16, 2002 6:12 PM To: Tesar Landon-r16884; fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Tesar, Also, the Crank Shaft will need to be rebuilt as well and since the bushings that hold it in place have gone bad... there is a strong chance that metal bits have been circulated through the engine...not good... You are looking at about $2,700.00 for a rebuild and new torque converter... Rgds, Mike Stitt ============================================================ From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Date: 2002/12/16 Mon AM 10:02:04 EST To: "'fsj-at-digest.net'" Subject: fsj: '89 GW-What to do? Hi, Well, I was under the hood this weekend, poking around. Gas mileage has dropped to about 9.5 mpg, oil consumption has increased, and I'm trying to figure it out...checking timing, goosing the gas a little bit to check the response, and I notice, Hey, I can see the crank pulley move away from the front of the block about 1/8". So I show my wife, and isn't that neat, and crankshaft end play has been stated as a known problem with these engines and it wasn't fixed at the last rebuild time, and that was Saturday. Sunday I'm looking at it again, and now I hear WWWRREEEEEKK! when the pulley steps out. Uh-oh. Don't do that anymore. There's about 52K on this reuild. Is it rebuild time again? Oil pressure is still good. There's some valvetrain noise. Has anyone had luck (good/bad) with a used engine? Are we looking at a new crankshaft? - - Landon Austin, TX ============================================================ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1815 **************************