From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sun Dec 22 23:39:07 2002 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, December 23 2002 Volume 01 : Number 1818 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: wrangler questions fsj: wrangler questions fsj: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? fsj: Re: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? fsj: Re: wrangler questions fsj: Detroit Electrac fsj: Re: Detroit Electrac fsj: axle swaps fsj: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:32:34 -0700 From: wp3 Subject: fsj: wrangler questions i recently got rid of my 80 j10 and purchased a 94 wrangler. i want to put a lift on it but would like some feedback first. i heard that the axles on the wranglers are not very reliable if you put more than a 2" lift on them? is there anyway to make them more durable? mostly rock crawling here in AZ. so i am looking for good articulation. any suggestions ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 14:33:08 -0700 From: wp3 Subject: fsj: wrangler questions i recently got rid of my 80 j10 and purchased a 94 wrangler. i want to put a lift on it but would like some feedback first. i heard that the axles on the wranglers are not very reliable if you put more than a 2" lift on them? is there anyway to make them more durable? mostly rock crawling here in AZ. so i am looking for good articulation. any suggestions on lifts would be great. thanks, Will 94 wrangler ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 15:07:21 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? A locker on the street, especially with an XJ is downright ugly, even in my son's '77 Cherokee it wasn't pleasant. Tell me more about the e-locker setup. Dana 44? I had a True-Trac on the front of the little wagoneer, excellent L/S setup, I'd gladly pay the extra for that setup. The ARB needs the compressor and can be a problem. The OX locker has it's issues too... Since the locker part won't be needed very often the e-locker sounds like the perfect setup, esp with the true trac setup... any idea of availability? :) Other options? Dana 44 for a J10... john At 05:00 PM 12/21/2002 -0600, Marc W. Grobe wrote: >Hey John! > >I am contemplating the same thing... I have a project Dana 44 and I am >trying to decide on whether a full Detroit is smart on my daily driver or >if a ARB/OX is a better choice. The one that intrigues me the most from >the selectable lockers is the Detroit Electrac locker. When it is >unlocked it is a LSD based on their Truetrac. I don't want to have to >fuss with air hose issues, like you may have with the ARB and I have had >cable issues on other devices that are similar to the cable activated >OX. Now an E-locker can always get shorted out, but I believe it would be >the least troublesome. I have read that the cable actuated OX takes some >time to get the engagement mechanism in the proper adjustment... And we >all have known someone that has had a hose break on an ARB unit. Pricing >on the E-locker is steep, but not really exorbitantly more than the ARB/OX >unit's... > >So it comes down to do I spend in the $400 range and get a Detroit locker >or in the $700+ range and get a Detroit E-locker... > >Tough choice to be sure. > >-Marc Grobe- >Villa Park, IL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:32 PM >Subject: xj: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? > > >Trying to decide what to do for the rear Dana 44 on my >'83 J10 Stepside. > >ARB or Ox locker? Other options? > >Want open or L/S on the road, but ability to lock up for >serious unsticking. :) No full time locker, no matter how >mild, for me on the street. :) > >http://www.oxtrax.com/oxlockerfile/oxpages/oxindex2.html >http://www.industryfigure.com/berkeley/Jeep/dana44/ox.htm >http://www.arbusa.com/arb_air%20locker.htm > >thanx, >john >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 17:47:12 -0600 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? I don't trust electronics or air systems. Mechanical is less failure prone in my experience. I'd go with OX. The OX cables are pretty strong looking and I think you could even damage them on the trail but still be able to jury rig your locker without much trouble. I'd really like a set on my TJ at some point. - --Vince '81 Wagoneer '99 TJ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "john" To: "Marc W. Grobe" Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 5:07 PM Subject: fsj: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? A locker on the street, especially with an XJ is downright ugly, even in my son's '77 Cherokee it wasn't pleasant. Tell me more about the e-locker setup. Dana 44? I had a True-Trac on the front of the little wagoneer, excellent L/S setup, I'd gladly pay the extra for that setup. The ARB needs the compressor and can be a problem. The OX locker has it's issues too... Since the locker part won't be needed very often the e-locker sounds like the perfect setup, esp with the true trac setup... any idea of availability? :) Other options? Dana 44 for a J10... john At 05:00 PM 12/21/2002 -0600, Marc W. Grobe wrote: >Hey John! > >I am contemplating the same thing... I have a project Dana 44 and I am >trying to decide on whether a full Detroit is smart on my daily driver or >if a ARB/OX is a better choice. The one that intrigues me the most from >the selectable lockers is the Detroit Electrac locker. When it is >unlocked it is a LSD based on their Truetrac. I don't want to have to >fuss with air hose issues, like you may have with the ARB and I have had >cable issues on other devices that are similar to the cable activated >OX. Now an E-locker can always get shorted out, but I believe it would be >the least troublesome. I have read that the cable actuated OX takes some >time to get the engagement mechanism in the proper adjustment... And we >all have known someone that has had a hose break on an ARB unit. Pricing >on the E-locker is steep, but not really exorbitantly more than the ARB/OX >unit's... > >So it comes down to do I spend in the $400 range and get a Detroit locker >or in the $700+ range and get a Detroit E-locker... > >Tough choice to be sure. > >-Marc Grobe- >Villa Park, IL > > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:32 PM >Subject: xj: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? > > >Trying to decide what to do for the rear Dana 44 on my >'83 J10 Stepside. > >ARB or Ox locker? Other options? > >Want open or L/S on the road, but ability to lock up for >serious unsticking. :) No full time locker, no matter how >mild, for me on the street. :) > >http://www.oxtrax.com/oxlockerfile/oxpages/oxindex2.html >http://www.industryfigure.com/berkeley/Jeep/dana44/ox.htm >http://www.arbusa.com/arb_air%20locker.htm > >thanx, >john >------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! >------------------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 17:57:42 -0600 From: "Vince Orr" Subject: fsj: Re: wrangler questions I have a '99 TJ and after reading many articles on the rock crawling YJ's and TJ's, it seems that the general opinion is that Dana 30 and 35 axles would only be worth using if you did modest crawling and you would have to beef up the axles and joints with aftermarket parts. Solutions include switching to large 1.5 or 2 ton axles along the lines of Dana 60's, and then you might want to spend some money on those too. Depends on how serious you want to get. Otherwise, I've heard that you would need to be prepared to buy lots of extra axles and joints to take on the trail with you if you keep the stock axles! Email me off list if anything else I can help with as "the guys" may not like these "baby" jeep postings on the FSJ list! Anyone know of a good Wrangler web list for Will here? I've never joined any. - --Vince - ----- Original Message ----- From: "wp3" To: "fsj" Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 3:33 PM Subject: fsj: wrangler questions i recently got rid of my 80 j10 and purchased a 94 wrangler. i want to put a lift on it but would like some feedback first. i heard that the axles on the wranglers are not very reliable if you put more than a 2" lift on them? is there anyway to make them more durable? mostly rock crawling here in AZ. so i am looking for good articulation. any suggestions on lifts would be great. thanks, Will 94 wrangler ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 22:04:41 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Detroit Electrac haven't found a price yet, anyone found more info on line with a price tag? Detroit Electrac for Dana 44 (rear) http://www.tractech.com/docs/DetroitElectrac.pdf Tractech Inc. ^U 11445 Stephens Drive ^U Warren, MI 48089 800-328-3850 ^U www.tractech.com thanx, john-at-wagoneers.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 22:13:47 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: Detroit Electrac more info, but still no prices... :( http://www.rockcrawler.com/features/newsshorts/02september/electrac.asp I really liked the True Trac I had on the little wagoneer, this seems like the perfect setup for SuperDawg. He'll have 4.10 gears, D44s fore and aft, and Quadratrac. A limited slip in the rear with lockup capability will be fantastic. john At 10:04 PM 12/21/2002 -0800, john wrote: >haven't found a price yet, anyone found more info on line >with a price tag? > >Detroit Electrac for Dana 44 (rear) > >http://www.tractech.com/docs/DetroitElectrac.pdf >Tractech Inc. ^U 11445 Stephens Drive ^U Warren, MI 48089 >800-328-3850 ^U www.tractech.com > > >thanx, >john-at-wagoneers.com >------------------------------------------------------------------ - ---------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... The REASON for the SEASON is Jesus! Real FREEDOM comes through knowing Jesus http://www.wagoneers.com/LivingByFaith/Christmas-message.html - ---------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 23:59:55 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: axle swaps A: The J20 bolt pattern is different, plus it's much wider than the XJ. I would suggest looking at Mopar B-body car D60s for replacement because it's the same bolt pattern. (I had 3 till last year) A D44 from a Wagoneer will be the right width (the rims are still outward offset, making it wider) Even the Model 20 from a '80 or newer wag would work well in an XJ. Heck, even the pair of D44 axles I have from the '75 J10 would be okay (but much wider), but I think they are going away on monday. From: john I would think it might work... the J20 axle is a widetrac so fender coverage might be an issue, don't have the dimensions handy. Also the D60 is 8 lug. Otherwise if the spring mounts line up shouldn't be a big issue. john At 02:08 PM 12/19/2002 -0500, gendav-at-eos.net wrote: >John, I came across an article sent to >you by Mike Cummings where he put >the >drivetrain from a J20 into an XJ. I >have a 96 XJ 4-1/2" RE lift. I >am still >running the Dana 30 front and Chry 8-1/4 >rear. > >I am currently looking to get a Dana 44 front from a wrecked 97 XJ, found >one at a junk yard. I am wanting to put in a Dana 60 in the rear. I know >the J20 and J30 came with Dana 60 in the rear. My thought was the width >would be what was needed. I will rebuild both axles. > >Is this feasible?? Just looking for >ideas on what other people have done. > >would the J20 or J30 rear match to my >XJ? I know a lot of guys went to >a Ford >9" for the XJ rear, but I was wanting to >keep everything "JEEP" > >Thanks for your time. > >David Smith - - _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_smartspamprotection_3mf ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 15:07:51 -0800 From: "Phillips, Scott" Subject: fsj: RE: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? From: john Subject: fsj: Ox or ARB Locker - rear D44? Trying to decide what to do for the rear Dana 44 on my '83 J10 Stepside. ARB or Ox locker? Other options? Want open or L/S on the road, but ability to lock up for serious unsticking. :) No full time locker, no matter how mild, for me on the street. :) http://www.oxtrax.com/oxlockerfile/oxpages/oxindex2.html http://www.industryfigure.com/berkeley/Jeep/dana44/ox.htm http://www.arbusa.com/arb_air%20locker.htm thanx, john John, Eaton will have a selectable electric locker out in the next 12 months. That's the way I'm planning to go. I currently have an ARB in my rear 44 and have been very happy with it. I won't ever touch an OX locker. You're paying a ton of money for something that has a ton of problems. I personally know of 5 different people who have attempted to get these to work correctly (either they will not engage or won't disengage). Three of the five have chucked the OX and gone to an ARB (Expensive experiment if you ask me). Also, I've talked at length with the installers at Mepco (local to me) and they've had so many problems with the OX lockers that they've installed that they nolonger install them. They sell them to the customer and tell them they will have to install the locker themselves. http://automotive.eaton.com/product/traction_stability/elocker.html Scott ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1818 **************************