From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Wed Jan 22 16:11:38 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Monday, January 20 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1840 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] OH BOY! I get to buy another Jeep!!!! fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] OH BOY! I get to buy another Jeep!!!! fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] Cooking Grits in an FSJ fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] Question for Jim B and maybe others. fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1839 fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] what have i done? fsj: 271,171 miles on a 4.0L... WJ tune next... fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: Grits and how to heat/cook them fsj: New Jeep - Liberty - NOT. fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] synthetic oils FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:51:38 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] OH BOY! I get to buy another Jeep!!!! At 06:55 PM 1/19/2003 -0700, TRobertsRN wrote: >John, > >Forgive my ignorance but what is a WJ? The 1999 and up Grand Cherokee. :) All new design, awesome rigs... 0 to 60 in 7.3 seconds and 20+mpg on the interstate!!! Here's mine taken over thanksgiving in SD: http://wagoneers.com/WJ/images/mt-rushmore-WJ-nov29-2002.jpg In my house WJ stands for "wife's" Jeep. :) The Liberty is a KJ. see: http://www.wagoneers.com/JEEPS/jeep-model-codes.html john >Thomas Roberts >78 Cherokee WT, 360 bored 30 over >3" Rough Country Lift >TH4000, 3 in. lift, 33x12.5 all terrains >Custom bumpers and full cage of schedule 40 pipe >Gilbert, AZ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: john > To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com ; FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > Cc: fsj-at-digest.net ; xj-at-digest.net > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 8:58 PM > Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] OH BOY! I get to buy another Jeep!!!! > > > The XJ's have limitations under hard core wheeling... they don't > hold up with the uni-frame... the lower control arms will crack > and break off, the tailgate assy gets tweaked and cracked, and so > on... not a big deal for 99% of XJ owners. :) > > The Liberties are butt ugly 'toon town looking messes. They weigh > 50 lbs MORE then my '99 WJ Grand Cherokee. The 3.7L V6 is gutless > in that config. They handle worse then an FSJ. Although they ride > slightly nicer then a WJ (which is a LOT better then an XJ) and are > quieter then a WJ. But you can see Mercedes influence with the controls > in the center of the console. > > I drove one and would rather have my '99 WJ or even my '87 XJ. :) > > I still think Daimler Chrysler is out of their collective minds for > dropping the XJ... > > I've lost count to how many SJ and XJ's I've had: > see: http://wagoneers.com/johns-vehicles.html :) > > john > > At 08:13 PM 1/18/2003 -0800, Philip Calusine wrote: > >I'll have to agree that the XJ's are a well built vehicle. I am on my > >second and it is doing quite well. My dad had one that had over > 250,000 on > >it and still ran srong when he sold it. Pound for pound, they are really > >hard to beat although I understand that the new Liberties are about as > >ideal of a replacement as you could find for the XJ's but with a little > >less cargo space. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com > Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com >To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com >Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:53:55 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] OH BOY! I get to buy another Jeep!!!! the ZJ model of the Grand Cherokee has issues... 1993-1998. Not terrible issues, but the '99 and up are better designs... my xj has 241,171 miles on it... just switched it over to AmSOIL synthetic and NGK platinum plugs today... runs great. :) john At 07:07 PM 1/19/2003 -0700, TRobertsRN wrote: >My mom had an XJ for years with out problems, she loved it and wishes she >bought another one. Even got her off road a little with it. The only >down side I saw was higher insurance related to being one of the top ten >vehicles stolen in it's day. She didn't want a four wheel drive model >because she didn't think she would use it that way and also higher >insurance cost. I convinced her to get the four wheel drive. It more >than paid off later when it was stolen as far as the difference on value >paid by the insurance company. Not sure where you live, theft is more of >an issue here being so close to Mexico. If I were to get a vehicle other >than a FSJ an XJ would be it. As I modify my FSJ more I may get one for a >daily driver. Lots of rust free Jeeps here though. I have had different >friends with lots of problems with the I think they are called grand >Cherokee's with the V8. So without any personal experience I don't >recommend them. > >Thomas Roberts >78 Cherokee WT, 360 bored 30 over >3" Rough Country Lift >TH4000, 3 in. lift, 33x12.5 all terrains >Custom bumpers and full cage of schedule 40 pipe >Gilbert, AZ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: gusparas1 > To: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 4:36 PM > Subject: [FSJ-List] OH BOY! I get to buy another Jeep!!!! > > > The wife's POS died for good over X-mas. We have been talking > about replacement vehicles. She wants a small station wagon (SUV > nowadays). Two boys 8 and 10. We looked at some new Chevy's and > Subaru's and she said "What could we get used that gets decent mileage > and doesn't cost this much?" I pointed out that there are a lot of > the small Jeep wagons out there (she really likes the 87 GW but > doesn't want to feed it's gas appetite after driving it for a couple > of weeks). So, for the group, what should I look for and look out for > in the small wagon (I don't know it's designation)??? I really don't > know much about these. Need 4 doors. Her sister had one years > ago that had a GM 2.8 V-6 and they had more than average trouble with > it (although the wife doesn't consider all the repairs I do on the GW > an issue). My life experience says the 258 has a good reliability > record-are these in those? What tranny's are in them? I see a lot > with 4.0L on them: what engine is that-a chrysler? She doesn't care > about the 4WD but what X-fer cases are in these? I know CJ's and GW's > but I am really weak on the small wagon. Thanks in advance for your > opinion. > > chuck > 87 GW and a small wagon soon!!!! > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com > Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > >To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com >To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com >Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 20:59:29 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] Cooking Grits in an FSJ have you priced the Robert C. Ackerson 50 Year Jeep History book lately? People thought I was nuts to spend $98 bucks for mine... a friend bought one after me for a "bargain" at $148. Last price I heard from the used market search was around $175... :) It's not just a great book, it's an investment, and quite frankly doing a heck of a lot better then my company's stock. :) john At 09:54 PM 1/19/2003 -0600, you wrote: >I was going to ask you the name Ethan, but I did some searching >and............found the name of the book, it is called Manifold Destiny. >8^o >http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN%3D0375751408/002-2868370-5051214 >It seems like it used to list for only $9.95, when in print, and now used >and out of print it is worth over $100. WOW! >Even Ebay has one on there for over $40. > >I read some receipes online at http://www.winexwired.com/3point1/sg31.htm > >Then of course you need the Roadkill cook books too. LOL > >This IS sounding interesting especially for a long trip. > >later, >dave > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Ethan Brady" > >Manifold burritos!!! IIRC, there's even a BOOK about how to do it. > >Ethan Brady >88 GW SlushPuppy / 67 M-715 >CFSJA Member > > >To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com >To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com >Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 19 Jan 2003 22:56:29 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] Question for Jim B and maybe others. I've read about a place where you can connect a gauge... don't have time to dig into the service manual to look for it, hopefully Jim will know right off.... john At 10:16 PM 1/19/2003 -0800, Jim Sterling wrote: >Does the 727 have pressure port that a fitting would screw into? This months >4wheel & Offroad talks about a 700R4 and they put a small "manifold" >connected to the pressure port and ran the temp gauge, line pressure gauge >and a accusump. Any ideas on the 727? > >Thanks, > >Jim Sterling > > >To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com >To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com >Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 01:03:37 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1839 A: My wife gave them to me with gravy and butter (even nicer with garlic butter) but she was horrified when I had some for breakfast with brown sugar and milk! Recently she made some and I'm mixing in okra stewed with 'maters (as her dad would say in his W Virginia accent) Sure tastes good for a late snack (my morning breath may be another story, but I don't work tomorrow!) From: john I suppose if I'd known what they were and ate them like they weren't cream of wheat (with sugar and milk) I might have a different opinion of them now. :) john _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:08:33 -0800 (PST) From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] what have i done? On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, Don Hansen wrote: >-->I put STP in the microwave for awile (CAP OFF!!!) to get it to run faster. back in the '60's several of us tried this STP stuff... we found that it made it's way to the bottom of the crankcase rather quickly and did little good. In some engines we found it contributed to sludge... Don't waste your money on something that will settle to the bottom of your oil pan... If your valve seals are bad, replace 'em. With additives like stp you actually risk doing more damage. Some of the teflon treatments out there actually destroyed engines by blocking oil passages, and that hyperlube hyperbull stuff where they use the one-arm bandit pressure test to show how well it works is bogus, extreme pressure additives are fine in manual trannies and rear ends but have no place in an engine. If you want to spend money and get real benefit buy synthetic oil. Of course I recommend amsoil... but any synthetic on the shelfs today is better then dino oil and a LOT better then any treatments or additives, despite what some of the "old-timers" might say. ;) john - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com/john AMSOIL synthetics & filters, Hastings filters and now BOSCH!!!! http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ To order 1-800-956-5695 customer# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/FSJ_filters.html http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 10:48:16 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: 271,171 miles on a 4.0L... WJ tune next... ...and I just switched it over to Amsoil 5w30 Synthetic oil and installed NGK platinum plugs. The bonehead mechanic that worked on this thing before didn't put anti-seize on the plugs and I thought for sure I'd be looking at installing inserts. :) But with my stainless steel 1/2 drive craftsmen ratchet, tongue hanging out, and putting my legs into it, I got 'em loose. :) Noticeable improvement in power but I still need 4.10s. :) The plugs that were in all read fine, they were eroded though, gap was probably around .045! I found the same thing with the plugs on my '99 WJ and am going to switch it to NGK platinums as well. I talked to another mechanic about going to Platinums, I guess the Bosch platinums aren't that good. The factory manual for the '99 WJ (4.7L) says to use copper core... but on the WJ with about 45,000 miles or so they were badly eroded... Since then I've had the WJ to LA twice, Ouray and then Rapid City (around 66k now). We'll see how eroded the copper cores are after the 10,000 miles or so... going to switch from Amsoil 10w40 to 5w30 to pick up more economy. Gained almost a half mile per gallon going from 20w50 to 10w40. :) So after a year and almost 22,000 miles going to change the oil to amsoil 5w30. I think I'll get it analyzed to see how it held up. :) It's good for one year or 25,000 miles under "normal" use. Sure is nice not having to change the oil every 2 or 3 thousand miles. I usually don't let it go this long, but with all the road trips this year just didn't have time to change it, and besides freeway miles are pretty easy on these things. Fuel injection makes ALL the difference in the world as well, less crud in the oil. :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 11:33:11 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: Grits and how to heat/cook them who said anything about rain? it's cloudy... ;) we get less rainfall then Chicago does... but we're at the bottom of the sunshine charts. :) http://www.wagoneers.com/pages/Sunshine.html noticed that y'all are near the top... ;) john At 01:17 PM 1/20/2003 -0600, Frank Donnelly wrote: >John...Sound like an "even stevens" trade off to me but I hate rain with a >passion so I think I will pass trading locations with ya. >Frank in Texas >P.S. I will trade ya one possum and three owls for some good used FSJ parts. > >I did not tell Anna to develope those pics in her mind either BTW. LOL > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "john" >To: >Sent: Monday, January 20, 2003 11:53 AM >Subject: Re: [FSJ-List] Re: Grits and how to heat/cook them > > > > On Mon, 20 Jan 2003, tiegrrliles90gw wrote: > > > > >-->I really could have gotten through my day just fine without that > > >-->picture in my head Frank, LOL,fire ants are pretty nasty here too but > > > > agreed... ;) some pictures are best left undeveloped. ;) > > > > > > fire ants, just another reason to live in the Pacific Northwest. :) > > they'd drown up here. ;) I'll take a nice cloudy day, like > > today... I'm happy fighting mold and mildew instead of rust, dust > > and fire ants, snakes, spiders and mosquitos... (we have a few spiders > > and mosquitos, but very rare are they... ;) Although we do have > > to deal with moles, possum's, starlings, > > canadian geese, ducks, coyotes and deer along with cottonwood and > > alder trees that grow like weeds... ;) > > > > john > > > > ---- > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com > > To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > > To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com > > Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com > > Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > >To post message: FSJ-List-at-yahoogroups.com >To subscribe: FSJ-List-subscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >To unsubscribe: FSJ-List-unsubscribe-at-yahoogroups.com >Moderator: FSJ-List-owner-at-yahoogroups.com >Home Page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FSJ-List > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:44:43 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: New Jeep - Liberty - NOT. You don't have to spend too much time on the web to find out what Gas Hogs the V6 Liberties are. And they are DINKY. (stepping from FSJ to Liberty) I sat in the back seat but thought I was in the front until I turned around and thought I was in a car. - - Landon John wrote: "The Liberties are butt ugly 'toon town looking messes. They weigh 50 lbs MORE then my '99 WJ Grand Cherokee. The 3.7L V6 is gutless in that config. They handle worse then an FSJ. Although they ride slightly nicer then a WJ (which is a LOT better then an XJ) and are quieter then a WJ. But you can see Mercedes influence with the controls in the center of the console." ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:20:00 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: [FSJ-List] synthetic oils there are a lot of myths and mythinformation about synthetics still out there I guess. :) First off you can NOT break in an engine with synthetic oil... you must first break it in with dino oil so things seat. If you use synthetic things don't seat and things will go snap the first time you put the stress to it. :) Switching an engine from dino oil to synthetic can be done at any time. However you have to be aware that years of dino sludge and varnish will be worked loose so you'll need to change your filter more often. If you ran really bad stuff like pennzoil or valvoline or other quaker state/pennsylvania type oils, or cheap stuff, or ran low and cooked some oil in there, you might want to flush the engine first with ATF/Diesel/Kerosene or one of the new-fangled packaged cleaners. ;) If your engine leaks now it's possible that it won't leak with Amsoil. Amsoil has seal swelling agents built in. I can't speak of other syn oils though. And chances are if you're leaking now, you'll be leaking when you switch. Funny thing is you may be leaking now and not know it because the synthetic oil will stick to the block and sides where dino oil just sorta flies away... :) I had a turbo Diesel ('85 XJ with the 2.1L all aluminum Renault TD) with a known bad oil seal and a failing turbo seal, was using a quart in about 300 miles! I decided to experiment and switched over to amsoil to see what would happen... my oil consumption cut back to a quart in 700 miles!! What about what Jim B says? :) If you have years of crude and sludge and gunk in your engine and switch to synthetic without cleaning of changing the filters the first few days, yeah, you could choke a motor's oil galleries and do damage... To my knowledge Jim hasn't done this with amsoil, maybe some of the el-cheapo stuff they sell in some of the chain stores... ;) Hard to say, but if you have crud and you start to clean a motor, you risk parts if you're not careful, so what jim said makes perfect sense, but it's not the synthetic's fault at all. It wasn't the synthetic oil (of any make) that created all the varnish, coke, deposits, sludge and other yucky stuff... ;) FWIW, I just switched my '87 Jeep XJ cherokee with a 241,171 mile 4.0L motor over to Amsoil 5w30 and oil pressure is better then ever and the engine is quieter and feels like it has more power. The PO had faithfully changed the dino oil at around 3k intervals so it wasn't too dirty. After I had the rear main seal replaced my mechanic filled it with Kendall (the only dino that I'd consider running in anything I cared about... used to like Castrol GTX but they had some problems a few years back and a friend's motor sludged up from it. :(. Anyway, oil's changed, doing fine... I've beat the daylights out of it (that's how I found out about the "feeling of more power" mind ya. I'll check the oil level when I get home, maybe... ;) I like the set and forget feel of synthetic lubes... In the 20+ years I've been an amsoil dealer I've yet to have one customer, or one of my engines, ever fail because of the oil. I don't care if you buy amsoil or not, if you do it'd be cool if you bought it from me, but if you like your engine, get a good synthetic, a true synthetic and follow it's recommendations. (mobil one is a synthesized hydrocarbon, get something with a true synthetic base stock and not a blend that used oil.) john meister At 09:26 PM 1/20/2003 +0000, tiegrrliles90gw wrote: >I was told by someone that synthetic oils were best used in new or >newly rebuilt engines. That if you switched over to synthetic on an >older, high mileage vehicle it would cause gaskets and seals to leak. >Is this true? And would it make a big difference switching? What >about what Jim B. said about engines starting to knock after >switching? Huh?huh? What about that???? > >Anna in the Jeep - ----------------------------------------------------- http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ To order 1-800-956-5695 customer# 283461 http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/amsoil-xj.html http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/FSJ_filters.html http://www.wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/ Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1840 **************************