From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Mon Feb 3 23:16:17 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, February 4 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1851 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Adjusting Bands fsj: I think I have a winner fsj: What Carb is this? Re: fsj: AC Delco for SJ? Re: fsj: I think I have a winner fsj: some good sparkplug info (from the AMC-list) fsj: AC Delco for FSJs fsj: Air Gap intake for AMC pricing fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location fsj: Re: the never-ending story... ;) (diesels, transfer cases, etc.) RE: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location RE: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location fsj: Re: 190D one step closer... fsj: Adjusting bands on the 727 FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:20:42 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Adjusting Bands Hey all, Doing some work on my new '87 and discover that the band adjustment requires a little 4 sided sort of socket. Any "shade tree" solutions to this? Have a torque wrench with the right range, but nothing I can use as a "socket" for this task. I've been to Advance and AutoZone but they don't have tools for squat. NAPA and Car Quest are not open on Sundays here in the Bible belt. Is this a Snap On only sort of part? I need to get the '87 on the road TOMORROW, since I'll have to take a day off work now (as the pan is still off waiting for the rear band adjustment).... Where in the world can a guy buy transmission tools? JeepNut - -- Registered Linux User #287453 In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows or Gates? - ------------------------------------------------------------ '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '87 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee ...and they say there's only one... - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:22:58 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: I think I have a winner If I have read all the old posts right, I think I've pulled a bonus on my cheep Jeep. If the tag is right, she sports a 228 xfer case! A keeper for sure, as the 229 in the '88 is only about a year old. JeepNut - -- Registered Linux User #287453 In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows or Gates? - ------------------------------------------------------------ '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '87 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee ...and they say there's only one... - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:34:58 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: What Carb is this? Sorry for the flurry of posts, but my email servers were changed and Bellsouth thought it best not to bother sending out any messages to the users to that effect. So I have been desparately trying to send mail for a couple of days to no avail. Found out tonight what they have done, so now it's working. Anyway, working on the '87 now, it has some weird carb on it that I hope someone can ID. No tag, but stamped Motorcraft, however it isn't like the 2100 model on the '88 at all. In fact, it doesn' t have a port on the back for the PCV valve. It doesn't have any accomodation for the tranny kickdown linkage. It doesn't have the electric throttle solenoid, but appears to have a vacumn type arrangement, tho it seems to work backward to me. It is normally pulled in with no vacumn on it anyway. (seems like a spring inside or something). So hooking up vac to it would seem to be pointless. (it isn't hooked up now anyway.) It seems to me like it would need a pressure line hooked up to make it work.... weird. Otherwise, the carb sits on the manifold right, on a big spacer, like the 2100 and is a 2bbl carb, similar choke to what I see on the 2100, little vacumn dashpot on the LR side... Anyone have a clue what I've got on this thing? It seems to run pretty darned good actually. I am trying to get the vac lines all rerouted so things like the PCV and the EGR, and the xfer case all work..... but it is a bit of a trick since it looks "non stock" regarding the carb. It'll probably never run again Any help is deeply appreciated while I learn more about the new acquisition. JeepNut - -- Registered Linux User #287453 In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows or Gates? - ------------------------------------------------------------ '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '87 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee ...and they say there's only one... - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 21:38:43 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: AC Delco for SJ? At 11:18 PM 2/2/2003 -0600, JeepNut wrote: > Where in the world do you get the full line of AC Delco filters? > Anybody know? I have access to the full AC Delco line through one of my main distributers... If you can get me the Delco numbers I'll look into a quanity purchase, but I think you might be better off using the AMSOIL or Hastings filters that Amsoil sells... If you're interested in case lot of the AC parts it might be worth the trouble... but I think the quality of the amsoil and hastings filters are better, check that website and let me know... I can certainly use the money from selling parts, it is my side business and since I'm laid off from my day job I'll have time to go to the warehouse and pick stuff up. :) If there's anything else y'all need, if we can put in quanity orders I can get a better price for you, not sure if we can do better with shipping costs though, that's the only downside... john meister out of work, but not out of ideas in Snohomish... ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-1.jpg http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/Filter_INFORMATION/air_filter-2.jpg SJ Jeeps: 360/401: TS-23 258: TS-12 retail $21.50 XJ Jeeps: 4.0L/2.5L('87 and up): TS-29 retail $29.95 WJ Jeeps: 4.7L: TS-104 retail $47.50 DieselBenz: typical S1118 or S1680 retail $32.50 or $39.85 http://wagoneers.com/AMSOIL/ order 1-800-956-5695 cust# 283461 Snohomish, WA, where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 22:07:47 -0800 From: john Subject: Re: fsj: I think I have a winner At 11:22 PM 2/2/2003 -0600, JeepNut wrote: >If I have read all the old posts right, I think I've pulled a bonus on my >cheep Jeep. >If the tag is right, she sports a 228 xfer case! >A keeper for sure, as the 229 in the '88 is only about a year old. > JeepNut the 228 is preferred over the viscous coupler 229... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 02 Feb 2003 23:34:05 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: some good sparkplug info (from the AMC-list) From: "John Elle" To: mail-at-amc-list.com Subject: poppin corn-Now: Jimmy crack corn an' I don't care- but AMXY do an' I do./Plugs... Steve,=20 If you are building your self a go fast motor, I believe you are going the wrong way on the plugs. A hotter plug is designed for greater heat at the tip, something that you really do not want. The harder you drive them the hotter they run.=20 A 'hot' plug is desirable if you are doing a lot of city traffic idling or burning oil. The extra heat that the design is built in with lets the plug come up to temperature and burn deposits out. Or in the case of an oil burner, burn off the carbon etc. that oil burning does.=20 It can also fool the plug reading test. Another side effect of hot plugs is an increased tendency to ping or detonate do to localized heating in the combustion chamber. Something that is not too desirable as that has a tendency to break pistons.=20 My suggestion is to go 2 or 3 heat ranges colder. The long distance freeway running along with the hotter ambient outside temperatures, your engine and there for the plugs will naturally run hotter. So drop some cold ones in to compensate.=20 For what it is worth. I have been running Champion RCN-9-Y's for years with nothing but excellent success. =20 Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 00:16:44 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: AC Delco for FSJs A: I went to AC Delco's online catalog and they recommend a PF970C oil filter. I don't think I have that in my store (I'll see tomorrow) Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 10:51:48 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: Air Gap intake for AMC pricing I just got off the phone with the CSK (Partsamerica.com which is our online service lists them at $329.99) tech line. Apparently right now they have a special in the Speed-Pro dept on the Air-gap Edelbrock 7135 of $273.22 (plus applicable tax and shipping) If they ask who told you, tell them some crazy guy named Jim that works at store 4342! PS: I get no kickbacks from this and unless they raise my wage VERY soon, I will be off to a different job that pays more! Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack, '86 Comanche 4x4 _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 15:04:50 -0500 From: James Isennock Subject: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location Anyone else got clearance issues with the distributor Vac. can after installing the big Ford TFI distributor cap on an AMC 360? My 87 G-Wag runs O.K. after the conversion (not as well as I hoped, I did the TFI coil and the light advance springs too) I get the best performance with the distributor positioned so that the vac hose is like 1/64" from the Power steering belt - this seems far from ideal as every now and then I have to replace the hose as the belt wears through. Thanks, Jay Isennock ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 12:31:02 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: the never-ending story... ;) (diesels, transfer cases, etc.) At 12:10 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, Kevin Pekarek wrote: >On Mon, Feb 03, 2003 at 11:56:06AM -0800, john wrote: > > I wonder how hard it would be to drop the 2.5L Turbo Diesel > > into the Automatic '85 190D with the 2.2L... > >Well, that didn't take long. Hey, I'm out of work, not out of ideas... just planning ahead for when the motor passes on... maybe in another 250,000 miles or so. ;) The 190D comes off the line briskly, as it starts in 1st gear, where most Diesel Benz's start out in 2nd. On the freeway it's a garden tractor... but hey, around here freeway speeds are rare and when available I'll have plenty of time to ramp up to the limit. :) The idea here is economy. We're considering selling the '99 WJ and using the 190D and '87 XJ... superdawg of course will NOT be part of the offering, especially since he's in a bazillion pieces right now. The idea is if we sell the '99 WJ that once we're back into a solid full time work routine I'll replace it for my wife. This is a good plan as it gets me around some of the issues of this particular WJ... mainly the black leather... I like the tan leather. ;) The '99 WJ is very clean and I've gone through it with amsoil synthetics and the slotted brake rotors and all new brake parts, rear end was rebuilt by randy's ring and pinion and refilled with amsoil gear lube. Getting 21mpg on the freeway... mileage around town is in the 14 to 16mpg range... whereas the '87 xj is getting 16 to 17mpg in town... and it's paid for... ;) Getting rid of the '99 WJ may be a last resort... it represents over $500 a month in expenses... we WILL get another one. Next one may be a 4.0L Limited with Quadradrive, tan leather interior... ;) As expected my wife is NOT excited about giving up her Jeep... >Sure, it probably wouldn't be hard, but I've >also heard swapping a 242 from an XJ into a 258 powered SJ is a pretty easy >swap too :) :) :) negatory... found out the hard way that ain't so... it's not just spline count, but also the depth of the shaft into the case... We had to design and have an adapter machined to mate an NP219 to my AW4 (same problem had I gone from the T-5/tf727 to the NP242. Many of the 242's are 21 spline, while all the FSJ's are 23 spline... anyway, paid $65 for the metal, then another $250 for machining... thought my friend would machine it in the machine shop I had access to, but he couldn't make it up... so I ended up spending more to use the NP219 then if I'd used a 242 from an XJ. :( Oh well, I have a spare NP219 and it may be that the 219 is a sturdier case then the 242, and a lot simpler... >JUST DRIVE THE CAR :) yes sir, I will, but only after converting it to amsoil synthetics and IPF headlights... (just happen to have a set of rectangular IPFs for it... ;) BTW, my friend that bought Fritz went through a rather ugly divorce and is trying to move back east and mentioned he may be selling fritz... fritz was a very nice 2 owner, 3 if you count me, well 4 if you count him... ;) anyway, he replaced the timing chain and dialed it in getting great mileage and also added euro lights! Not sure what he wants for it, but since it's the non-turbo I'm not sure I want to own it again... unless of course the price is right... (my bohemian heritage always comes through... just another crazy hobi picker... ;) (anyone in the Chicago area care to mail me some Praski? ;) sorry for rambling, need to get back to work on ebay stuff... :) http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/dieseljohn/ later, dieseljohn - ----------------------------------------------------- john-at-wagoneers.com http://www.wagoneers.com - - 67 J100 Panel (SJ) - 83 J10 Stepside - superdawg (SJ) - 99 grand cherokee (wj) - for sale??? - '79 Golden Eagle (FSJ) (4 sale) - '87 Cherokee (XJ) - '83 Ford Ranger Diesel - '75 J10 trailer coming soon? - '85 190D? http://wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/190D/ jesus, don't leave life without him, please! Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... - ----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 12:52:27 -0800 (PST) From: Alexander Wall Subject: RE: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location It's just as possible that mine has always been in the wrong place. I'm just not sure where everyone else's is oriented. - --- James Isennock wrote: > So it comes out UNDER the PS belt? I did the "upgrade" shortly after > purchase and > put the distributor back in the way it came out. Is it possible that mine > was oriented wrong when I got it? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Wall [mailto:alxndr13-at-yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:19 PM > To: James Isennock > Subject: Re: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location > > > Before and after the F#rd ignition upgrade, my vac hose is wedged firmly > against the > power-steering pump mounting bracket - also not the ideal position, IMO. > > Alex > > > --- James Isennock wrote: > > Anyone else got clearance issues with the distributor Vac. can after > > installing the big Ford TFI distributor cap on an AMC 360? My 87 G-Wag > runs > > O.K. after the conversion (not as well as I hoped, I did the TFI coil and > > the light advance springs too) I get the best performance with the > > distributor positioned so that the vac hose is like 1/64" from the Power > > steering belt - this seems far from ideal as every now and then I have to > > replace the hose as the belt wears through. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jay Isennock > > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ============================================================================ > ===== > "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds > beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. > ============================================================================ > ===== > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. ================================================================================= Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 13:25:27 -0800 (PST) From: Alexander Wall Subject: RE: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location Mine (84 Waggy) showed a noticeable improvement when I did the upgrade, but it is still a 190,000+ mile AMC V-8, so it's pretty weak, all around. I am also high-geared, still, with 2.72s and 31" tires. Not exactly a good "off-the-line" combination. :-) Alex - --- James Isennock wrote: > Hopefully someone from the list will comment. How's yours run? I get really > no punch off the line (has never spun a tire) and lackluster acceleration > across the board its an 87 G-Wagoneer with 3:31's and 30X950's > > Thanks, > Jay > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexander Wall [mailto:alxndr13-at-yahoo.com] > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:52 PM > To: James Isennock; 1FSJ Group; FSJ-Digest Group > Subject: RE: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location > > > It's just as possible that mine has always been in the wrong place. I'm > just not sure where > everyone else's is oriented. > > > --- James Isennock wrote: > > So it comes out UNDER the PS belt? I did the "upgrade" shortly after > > purchase and > > put the distributor back in the way it came out. Is it possible that mine > > was oriented wrong when I got it? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Alexander Wall [mailto:alxndr13-at-yahoo.com] > > Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 3:19 PM > > To: James Isennock > > Subject: Re: fsj: TFI Upgrade Vac Canister Location > > > > > > Before and after the F#rd ignition upgrade, my vac hose is wedged firmly > > against the > > power-steering pump mounting bracket - also not the ideal position, IMO. > > > > Alex > > > > > > --- James Isennock wrote: > > > Anyone else got clearance issues with the distributor Vac. can after > > > installing the big Ford TFI distributor cap on an AMC 360? My 87 G-Wag > > runs > > > O.K. after the conversion (not as well as I hoped, I did the TFI coil > and > > > the light advance springs too) I get the best performance with the > > > distributor positioned so that the vac hose is like 1/64" from the Power > > > steering belt - this seems far from ideal as every now and then I have > to > > > replace the hose as the belt wears through. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jay Isennock > > > > > > ===== > > Alexander Wall > > Spokane, WA > > > ============================================================================ > > ===== > > "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds > > beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. > > > ============================================================================ > > ===== > > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > ===== > Alexander Wall > Spokane, WA > ============================================================================ > ===== > "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds > beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. > ============================================================================ > ===== > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com ===== Alexander Wall Spokane, WA ================================================================================= "Before you attempt to beat the odds, be sure you can survive the odds beating you!" - E.L. Kersten, Ph.D. ================================================================================= Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 Feb 2003 17:50:51 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: 190D one step closer... At 05:15 PM 2/3/2003 -0800, Derickam AA wrote: >I do not know if a 2.5L turbo will fit or not, I am not sure if it will >mate up with the 84-85 auto trans. Be interesting to try though.... well, I suppose I could transplant the entire driveline... ;) now, will an xfr case and solid axles fit under this thing? :) >I am beginning to think John has his own version of "Monster Garage" going >on out there..... ;) you could say that... I can't find the picture of me in "garage scenes" from the Jan '92 issue of Four Wheeler... or the Jan '93 issue... :) will look for them later... it says a lot about some of my creations... ;) It seems that most of my finest "artwork" is in the FSJ realm though... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... jesus, don't leave life without him, please! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 04 Feb 2003 00:16:36 -0600 From: JeepNut Subject: fsj: Adjusting bands on the 727 Well, I looked at every shop in our area, AutoZone, Advance Auto, O Reilly, Sears, and not one of them has a square socket that you would use on a ratchet, nor an 8 point socket either. All are 6 and 12 pointers. But no worry, I got it done today. I talked to a guy at a local transmission shop and got a good first impression talking to him. I find that so rare around here. Few people seem to really KNOW what the heck they are talking about. They seem to like to hear their teeth clack together, whether or not they have any justification for their ideas about how something should be done. Or whether what they are saying makes any real sense at all. Anyway, he had a MUCH better gasket than the crap I got at AutoZone with the filter. I showed him my pan and he was impressed with the work I'd done flattening the bottom of it and the lip. Somebody had bumped the pan several times hard. So hard in fact that there were impressions in the pan for each of the three screws that hold the filter in place!! We talked about how to install the cork gasket, and he showed me to just use a 5/16" wrench, snug it up with one finger, then back it off. Seems to have worked pretty good. Seems to be doing much better. At least it did after I got it filled up all the way. AND the durned cork gasket ISN'T LEAKING!!! First one I did that didn't leak. First one I didn't buy at AutoZone. What I thought WAS odd.... it took 6 quarts nearly to fill it up right. How could that be? Anybody care to comment about this idea? The old filter was completely clogged. I doubt that fluid could pass through the thing at all. Could the filter being clogged have caused the torque converter to have been sucked a little low too? Just trying to figure out how come a job that should have taken 3 quarts, took nearly 6. (and yep, checked in Neutral, at idle, after running it several miles to warm up good) Always curious, JeepNut - -- Registered Linux User #287453 In a world without walls and fences, who needs Windows or Gates? - ------------------------------------------------------------ '87 Street Comanche #24/100 '88 Grand Wagoneer '87 Grand Wagoneer '92 Cherokee ...and they say there's only one... - ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1851 **************************