From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Thu Jul 10 12:52:32 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Thursday, July 10 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1970 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1969 Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1969 Re: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj Re: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying fsj: 304 head torque double check Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying fsj: RE: fsj-digest V1 #1969 Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 14:58:09 -0700 From: "Machinedoc" Subject: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1969 Why would you want to tow your Jeep around anyway? I use my GW "Rocky" to to do most of my trailer pulling. I'm sure John has pictures of Rocky pulling some of the various FSJ's that have graced my flatbed trailer behind Rocky. I think my trailer should be legally good for about 7,000 Lbs loaded. If you plan to do much towing, I'd suggest a flatbed or car hauler with tandem 3500 lb axles and a deck length of at least 16 ft. Trailer brakes and antisway devices should be considered a must as well. I hope that this helps, at least a little. Curtis Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:46:53 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj hi folks- does anyone transport or trailer their rig around from place to place? what kind or capacity of trailer / dolly / whatever is required? uhaul don't rent anything to tow/trailer them cuz a jeep is too big or heavy or whatever... i did use a chain-on tow-bar one time...didn't like it but it worked. thanks, jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 15:39:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1969 I'll have to see if I can build a page to show Rocky hauling off the myriad of FSJ and XJ carcasses from my place... :) many adventures... FWIW, I've used a tow dolly to haul an FSJ before, not too bad, only problem I had was when I got in my (then) gravelled driveway and took the corner a bit faster then I should have on the downhill and jacknifed and mangled the bumper on my J10... the '77 wagoneer on the tow dolly only outweighed the J10 by about 1,000 lbs... ;) actually 800 lbs.. :) john On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Machinedoc wrote: >-->Why would you want to tow your Jeep around anyway? I use my GW "Rocky" to >-->to do most of my trailer pulling. I'm sure John has pictures of Rocky >-->pulling some of the various FSJ's that have graced my flatbed trailer behind >-->Rocky. I think my trailer should be legally good for about 7,000 Lbs >-->loaded. >--> >-->If you plan to do much towing, I'd suggest a flatbed or car hauler with >-->tandem 3500 lb axles and a deck length of at least 16 ft. Trailer brakes >-->and antisway devices should be considered a must as well. >--> >-->I hope that this helps, at least a little. >--> >-->Curtis >--> >--> >-->Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:46:53 -0700 >-->From: "Faith Jeff" >-->Subject: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj >--> >-->hi folks- >--> >-->does anyone transport or trailer their rig around from place to place? >--> >-->what kind or capacity of trailer / dolly / whatever is required? >--> >-->uhaul don't rent anything to tow/trailer them cuz a jeep is too big or heavy >-->or whatever... >--> >-->i did use a chain-on tow-bar one time...didn't like it but it worked. >--> >-->thanks, >-->jeff >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:22:46 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj A: I had to buy a tow dolly, and it's barely big enough to tow the '73 J4000 I have (that's how I got it home with a Ford 1/2 ton) I had to squish one of the plastic fenders just to get it on (popped back out after sitting in the sun a couple hours). I didn't check the rating before pulling it (because I wasn't going that far) but it felt fairly close to it's max capacity. UHaul sold them because they didn't feel they were safe enough design to haul with just any vehicle. (the tail wags if the tow vehicle is lower than the axle) I would modify it with a drop axle, but then the fenders have to be taller. From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj hi folks- does anyone transport or trailer their rig around from place to place? what kind or capacity of trailer / dolly / whatever is required? uhaul don't rent anything to tow/trailer them cuz a jeep is too big or heavy or whatever... i did use a chain-on tow-bar one time...didn't like it but it worked. thanks, jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2003 22:25:34 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj A: 2bbl, or 4 bbl? (I happen to have 1- 4 bbl and 7- 2 bbls at the moment. I'm going to rebuild the 2bbls, but I'll sell the 4bbl 4100 and intake as is for $100. It ran fine till the motor ran out of oil!) From: Dan Black Subject: Re: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj This sounded a bit misleading, though I'm sure you all know better: I said: {- "Faith Jeff" said: {- {- does anyone transport or trailer their rig around from place to place? {- {- what kind or capacity of trailer / dolly / whatever is required? {- {- Well, I don't have one, but the FSJs usually weigh around 4600lbs. That is, I don't have a _trailer_. Of course I have a FSJ. Two, in fact. Not that either is running at the moment... Well, the '74 technically does, but the carb is waaaaay screwed up. (Jim? ;) ) - - - ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- - -- Sorry, Lou, got a nap in my near future. - -- Brad - - -------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org - -------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:24:48 -0600 From: "Stephen D. Thompson" Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > Why would you want to tow your Jeep around anyway? I use my GW "Rocky" to > to do most of my trailer pulling. I'm sure John has pictures of Rocky > pulling some of the various FSJ's that have graced my flatbed trailer behind > Rocky. I think my trailer should be legally good for about 7,000 Lbs > loaded. > > If you plan to do much towing, I'd suggest a flatbed or car hauler with > tandem 3500 lb axles and a deck length of at least 16 ft. Trailer brakes > and antisway devices should be considered a must as well. > > I hope that this helps, at least a little. > I have just started towing my 17.5 foot outboard ski boat with my 83 full size cherokee (the Silver Bullet :-)). We have been having high winds, even for here in the Idaho mountains, this summer. I towed the same boat on the same trailer behind my 90 4Runner before getting the FSJ. I did not experience much swaying with the 4Runner (once in a while with hard braking coming down twisty and steep Galena pass) . However, on the flat with the Silver Bullet, I have experienced some scary swaying, seemingly related to wind. What are some steps I can take to reduce it? Can I add a leaf or two on the rear springs? (Visually, the rear sags just a little with the trailer on. It did with the 4Runner too). Does tongue weight make a difference? Can I somehow adjust the tongue weight? It is a single axle "Shoreliner" trailer with a 17.5 Sea Swirl with a 120 Johnson bought in Kent in 1988. This topic is timely as a friend of mine just passed away after the large model year 200 Ford F250 or 350 crew cab with a loaded Wells Cargo type trailer swayed and tangled with a dump truck after attempting to pass in a windy area. Thanks in advance for the comments. Steve - -- Steve Thompson P.O. Box 1707 Ketchum, Idaho 83340 Phone: (208)726-4518 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:41:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying tires make a big difference. your chero should have a nice wheelbase to make it stable... having your trailer loaded with 60% forward of it's axle and the tongue weight set properly, 200-300lbs or so, is important. your chero is balanced pretty well, I'd guess close to 55/45 % f/r so it should be stable... what kind of tires are you running? les schlop? good year? dunlop? they're often weaker tires in the sidewall... bfg's are good, many of the michelin's are... anyway, a nice stiff sidewall is recommended... john On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Stephen D. Thompson wrote: >-->I have just started towing my 17.5 foot outboard ski boat with my 83 full >-->size cherokee (the Silver Bullet :-)). We have been having high winds, even >-->for here in the Idaho mountains, this summer. I towed the same boat on the >-->same trailer behind my 90 4Runner before getting the FSJ. I did not >-->experience much swaying with the 4Runner (once in a while with hard braking >-->coming down twisty and steep Galena pass) . However, on the flat with the >-->Silver Bullet, I have experienced some scary swaying, seemingly related to >-->wind. What are some steps I can take to reduce it? Can I add a leaf or two >-->on the rear springs? (Visually, the rear sags just a little with the >-->trailer on. It did with the 4Runner too). Does tongue weight make a >-->difference? Can I somehow adjust the tongue weight? It is a single axle >-->"Shoreliner" trailer with a 17.5 Sea Swirl with a 120 Johnson bought in Kent >-->in 1988. >--> >-->This topic is timely as a friend of mine just passed away after the large >-->model year 200 Ford F250 or 350 crew cab with a loaded Wells Cargo type >-->trailer swayed and tangled with a dump truck after attempting to pass in a >-->windy area. Thanks in advance for the comments. >--> >-->Steve >-->-- >--> >-->Steve Thompson >-->P.O. Box 1707 >-->Ketchum, Idaho 83340 >-->Phone: (208)726-4518 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:43:07 -0600 From: "Stephen D. Thompson" Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > tires make a big difference. your chero should have a nice > wheelbase to make it stable... having your trailer loaded > with 60% forward of it's axle and the tongue weight set properly, > 200-300lbs or so, is important. > > your chero is balanced pretty well, I'd guess close to 55/45 % f/r > so it should be stable... > > what kind of tires are you running? les schlop? good year? dunlop? > they're often weaker tires in the sidewall... bfg's are good, many > of the michelin's are... > > anyway, a nice stiff sidewall is recommended... > > john > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Stephen D. Thompson wrote: > >> -->I have just started towing my 17.5 foot outboard ski boat with my 83 full >> -->size cherokee (the Silver Bullet :-)). We have been having high winds, >> even >> -->for here in the Idaho mountains, this summer. I towed the same boat on >> the >> -->same trailer behind my 90 4Runner before getting the FSJ. I did not >> -->experience much swaying with the 4Runner (once in a while with hard >> braking >> -->coming down twisty and steep Galena pass) . However, on the flat with the >> -->Silver Bullet, I have experienced some scary swaying, seemingly related to >> -->wind. What are some steps I can take to reduce it? Can I add a leaf or >> two >> -->on the rear springs? (Visually, the rear sags just a little with the >> -->trailer on. It did with the 4Runner too). Does tongue weight make a >> -->difference? Can I somehow adjust the tongue weight? It is a single axle >> -->"Shoreliner" trailer with a 17.5 Sea Swirl with a 120 Johnson bought in >> Kent >> -->in 1988. >> --> >> -->This topic is timely as a friend of mine just passed away after the large >> -->model year 200 Ford F250 or 350 crew cab with a loaded Wells Cargo type >> -->trailer swayed and tangled with a dump truck after attempting to pass in a >> -->windy area. Thanks in advance for the comments. >> --> >> -->Steve >> -->-- >> --> >> -->Steve Thompson >> -->P.O. Box 1707 >> -->Ketchum, Idaho 83340 >> -->Phone: (208)726-4518 >> --> > > ---- > >> > Currently Les Schlop with wear on the fronts on the inside. Soon to be replaced with a new set of Les Schlops that came on some of the later stock alloys I have to be put on and eventually to be replaced entirely - -- Steve Thompson P.O. Box 1707 Ketchum, Idaho 83340 Phone: (208)726-4518 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:29:29 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: 304 head torque double check Since I've gone to all the work of putting the '77 AMX 304 into my '73 J4000, I want to make sure the headgaskets are correctly tightened. My '84 TSM lists 110 ft lbs for the 360. Is it the same for the '77 304? The reason I am doing this is because when I drove the car home, the temp was nearly boiling after 5 minutes running and I want to be sure it will be fine for at least 6 months to a year. I discovered that the reason it was running so hot is that the spring in the bottom rad hose was inhaled into the water pump, which snapped off the impeller. The motor ran a little rough, but I figure that was partially due to old plugs and points along with 3 year old gas and with having 8 quarts of oil in it. The oil pan was caved in to the point the dipstick wouldn't go all the way down, so it read needing oil when it didn't. I changed the oil pan with the one from the 360 I pulled out (after using 3 cans of carb cleaner to get all the crud and metal flakes out of the pan) Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack (getting lifted and stroked!), '73 J4000 304/TH400/QT tow truck (soon!), '83 Eagle wagon (soon to be modified!), '77 AMX (being parted)http://www.virtualjeep.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:52:33 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying a front end alignment and perhaps even balljoints might be in order... also, shocks will make a difference, but with the tires you're running you might want to bump the pressure up a bit, and experiment around with the right pressure... wild or open country tires? careful, I had one of those things blow apart on my chero one night on I-405... great tread, but the sidewall disintegrated and scattered itself all over the freeway... I wouldn't recommend any tire coming from the man with the free beef... unless it was a brand name tire that they resell... just my exp/opn... ;) john On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Stephen D. Thompson wrote: >-->> tires make a big difference. your chero should have a nice >-->> wheelbase to make it stable... having your trailer loaded >-->> with 60% forward of it's axle and the tongue weight set properly, >-->> 200-300lbs or so, is important. >-->> >-->> your chero is balanced pretty well, I'd guess close to 55/45 % f/r >-->> so it should be stable... >-->> >-->> what kind of tires are you running? les schlop? good year? dunlop? >-->> they're often weaker tires in the sidewall... bfg's are good, many >-->> of the michelin's are... >-->> >-->> anyway, a nice stiff sidewall is recommended... >-->> >-->> john >--> >-->Currently Les Schlop with wear on the fronts on the inside. Soon to be >-->replaced with a new set of Les Schlops that came on some of the later stock >-->alloys I have to be put on and eventually to be replaced entirely >-->-- >--> >-->Steve Thompson >-->P.O. Box 1707 >-->Ketchum, Idaho 83340 >-->Phone: (208)726-4518 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 11:37:49 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: RE: fsj-digest V1 #1969 simple...the last time i broke down far from home i paid a ton for a tow back home (and started a rebuild). i figure the next time it happens i'd rather be able to tow it myself. additionally i just want a trailer for miscellaneous hauling, and want it to be able to double as a transporter. with my small collection of junker fsj's (in various state of dis-re-repair and restomodification) i'll just hope that any one of them can tow any other of them. thanks everyone for your replies! jeff so-cal 90 gw 63 wag 67 j2000 - -----Original Message----- From: Machinedoc [mailto:Machinedoc-at-attbi.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 2:58 PM To: fsj-at-digest.net Cc: Jeff Faith Subject: Re: fsj-digest V1 #1969 Why would you want to tow your Jeep around anyway? I use my GW "Rocky" to to do most of my trailer pulling. I'm sure John has pictures of Rocky pulling some of the various FSJ's that have graced my flatbed trailer behind Rocky. I think my trailer should be legally good for about 7,000 Lbs loaded. If you plan to do much towing, I'd suggest a flatbed or car hauler with tandem 3500 lb axles and a deck length of at least 16 ft. Trailer brakes and antisway devices should be considered a must as well. I hope that this helps, at least a little. Curtis Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2003 17:46:53 -0700 From: "Faith Jeff" Subject: fsj: transporting / trailering an fsj hi folks- does anyone transport or trailer their rig around from place to place? what kind or capacity of trailer / dolly / whatever is required? uhaul don't rent anything to tow/trailer them cuz a jeep is too big or heavy or whatever... i did use a chain-on tow-bar one time...didn't like it but it worked. thanks, jeff This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, contains information from Prescription Solutions which may be confidential or privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy all electronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 13:32:28 -0600 From: "Stephen D. Thompson" Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > a front end alignment and perhaps even balljoints might be in order... > > also, shocks will make a difference, but with the tires you're > running you might want to bump the pressure up a bit, and experiment > around with the right pressure... wild or open country tires? > > careful, I had one of those things blow apart on my chero one night > on I-405... great tread, but the sidewall disintegrated and scattered > itself all over the freeway... I wouldn't recommend any tire > coming from the man with the free beef... unless it was a brand > name tire that they resell... > > just my exp/opn... ;) > > john > > On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Stephen D. Thompson wrote: > >> -->> tires make a big difference. your chero should have a nice >> -->> wheelbase to make it stable... having your trailer loaded >> -->> with 60% forward of it's axle and the tongue weight set properly, >> -->> 200-300lbs or so, is important. >> -->> >> -->> your chero is balanced pretty well, I'd guess close to 55/45 % f/r >> -->> so it should be stable... >> -->> >> -->> what kind of tires are you running? les schlop? good year? dunlop? >> -->> they're often weaker tires in the sidewall... bfg's are good, many >> -->> of the michelin's are... >> -->> >> -->> anyway, a nice stiff sidewall is recommended... >> -->> >> -->> john >> --> >> -->Currently Les Schlop with wear on the fronts on the inside. Soon to be >> -->replaced with a new set of Les Schlops that came on some of the later >> stock >> -->alloys I have to be put on and eventually to be replaced entirely >> -->-- >> --> >> -->Steve Thompson >> -->P.O. Box 1707 >> -->Ketchum, Idaho 83340 >> -->Phone: (208)726-4518 >> --> > > ---- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** > Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. > ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) > The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! > May the SOURCE be With GNU > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > It is supposed to be going up on the rack. It was recently aligned before I bought it from the PO, according to his receipts. Ball joints looked ok last time it was on the rack, but I am having a friend put it up there again soon for a look see on all running gear and to look at the tranny support and just to check it out. The newer wheels with the almost new tires are to go on then. I think both sets are versions of wild countrys. I won't buy them again based on your rec. I am experiencing symptoms of balancing issues so will look at that. The new wheels and tires may fix that up. I was also noticing that the pressure looked a little low so will bump that up in the meantime. Now, I just have to figure out how to measure my tongue weight. It is a heavier boat as far as outboards go and the rear does sag down just a bit when it is loaded on there. Will go for good tires when I buy new. Are Coopers any good? If not, I will probably go with BFGs for dry, and BFGs or Nokias for studs. That9s probably a grand at least in tires though so will have to take that one step at a time. - -- Steve Thompson P.O. Box 1707 Ketchum, Idaho 83340 Phone: (208)726-4518 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2003 12:51:25 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying On Thu, 10 Jul 2003, Stephen D. Thompson wrote: >-->It is supposed to be going up on the rack. It was recently aligned before I >-->bought it from the PO, according to his receipts. Ball joints looked ok >-->last time it was on the rack, but I am having a friend put it up there again >-->soon for a look see on all running gear and to look at the tranny support >-->and just to check it out. The newer wheels with the almost new tires are to >-->go on then. I think both sets are versions of wild countrys. I won't buy >-->them again based on your rec. I am experiencing symptoms of balancing >-->issues so will look at that. The new wheels and tires may fix that up. I yep... been there done that... cheap tires have issues... >-->was also noticing that the pressure looked a little low so will bump that up >-->in the meantime. Now, I just have to figure out how to measure my tongue >-->weight. It is a heavier boat as far as outboards go and the rear does sag that's good, that means you have weight on the back, it's dangerous when it doesn't go down, that means the weight isn't distributed right on the trailer and it'll wag the dog. >-->down just a bit when it is loaded on there. Will go for good tires when I >-->buy new. Are Coopers any good? If not, I will probably go with BFGs for No, not generally... My son has a set of Cooper Discovers in 35x12.5 that I'm trying to sell, and surprisingly they ride nice, have worn well, have great traction and are pretty quiet for being as aggressive as they are. I've not had good luck with coopers on my mercedes, so it may be that some are ok, and others not... >-->dry, and BFGs or Nokias for studs. That9s probably a grand at least in Nokias? those are cell phones. ;) >-->tires though so will have to take that one step at a time. bfg's are tough tires, make sure you get the AT/KO's (if you get used non-KO have 'em siped). I've got BFG's on my '91 XJ right now, they are ok, a little rougher then the Michelin LTX's. ttyl, john >-->-- >--> >-->Steve Thompson >-->P.O. Box 1707 >-->Ketchum, Idaho 83340 >-->Phone: (208)726-4518 >--> ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1970 **************************