From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Sat Jul 12 21:01:07 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Saturday, July 12 2003 Volume 01 : Number 1972 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: fsj: Filler hose needed fsj: Coopers fsj: 2003 quality/reliability survey Re: fsj: Re: Towing with Jeeps and swaying Re: fsj: Filler hose needed fsj: Re: Re: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review fsj: It's alive! FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 07:25:38 -0700 From: "allyoop" Subject: fsj: Filler hose needed Folks, I'm in need of a replacement gas filler hose for my '73 J-4000. It's an S-shaped rubber tube about 2 1/2 inches inside diameter and maybe a foot long, that runs down from the filler cap and connects to a steel tube that runs back to the tank itself. Anybody able to help? Walt Greenwood Everett, WA ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:52:33 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: Coopers Hi Stephen, I put Cooper HTs on my '89 wag a few years ago. They are not a dual use tire like the ATs, but I believe they are essentially the same tire with a different tread pattern and compound. They are very tough, and have a nice, fairly stiff sidewall. Good ride, low noise, good wear, good wet traction, I've never had a puncture but have found bent nails and garden tools in its wake. so I think they're pretty tough. They tow well, even with a light front end. Had to go to the dump last weekend towing a light(1500? lb) trailer. the roads were a mushy, slick limestone, found the jeep sliding sideways in 4WD Hi, shifted to low range and no more sliding. Low range was essential. The tires loaded up in no time, that's what I get for going with highway tread. I was glad to get out of there. saw a pretty baby blue late model wag this morning (faded paint and trim, low passenger rear tire - not a Cooper - was a whitewall - never have understood that) - - Landon 89 GW Austin >From: "Stephen D. Thompson" > >Are Coopers any good? If not, I will probably go with BFGs for >dry, and BFGs or Nokias for studs. That9s probably a grand at least in >tires though so will have to take that one step at a time. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 09:12:16 -0700 (PDT) From: john Subject: fsj: 2003 quality/reliability survey http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2003050bfull.gif notice mercedes and jeep side by side... too bad they're on the wrong side of the "industry" standard. Anyone know where these surveys for earlier years could be found? john ---- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** http://wagoneers.com ** ** http://freegift.net ** Snohomish, Washington USA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold. ...and remember, leaving life without Jesus just isn't recommended... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** john-at-wagoneers.com via PINE on Linux ** (plain text please!) The revolt is underway, you can not stop it. FEAR THE PENGUIN!!!! May the SOURCE be With GNU - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 11:22:39 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Towing with Jeeps and swaying A: Ditto on the Cooper Discoverers from me. They took me places I NEVER should have gone! I had them on my lifted '66 Pontiac Stratochief (nicknamed Gert by my ex) with 230 inline 6 and powerglide auto in late Jan '79 when my (then pregant and now ex-) wife and my brother and I went to Davies lake in Mission for a day picnic and play in the snow (we didn't have much at the lower levels all year) We got in to the lake just fine (A guy with a 4x4 and winch was helping others and collecting a fee from those dumb enough to come unprepared for 3 1/2 feet of snow) but when we went to leave, just before dark, the temp dropped and things got icy. I couldn't get enough traction to get back up the hill at first, so I waited till the others went, and tackled the hill again in reverse (funny enough, it went up no problem that way). The guy with the winch waited at the top and was surprised when I came around the last corner. I guess he was a little ticked that he didn't make any money off me, so he tromped on it and left, leaving nice big curls of snow in the air, like a snow blower. (He had Coopers too) I was doing fine till I hit the spot where he had been sitting. With a sickening thud, our progress (or retreat, since we were in reverse) came to a halt as all 4 tires grabbed nothing but air. Needless to say, we were in a pickle. We spent the night up there (I had a full tank of gas and a 5 gallon can to spare. I also had brand new exhaust, and we dug out the pipe so it wasn't killing us) I didn't have shovels with me, so my brother and I cut some of the rusty rear 1/4s off I was going to replace anyways and made our own. (I had lots of other tools with me, including a hand winch, but we were too far from anything to hook onto to pull ourselve back or ahead further.) We had plenty of food and with all the fresh snow, and my 12V kettle and teabags, we weren't hungry or thirsty or even cold. The car had a blast furnace for a heater (with a variable temp control a lot of new cars should emulate!) and we had lots of blankets. CB radio was nearly useless, even with the 50 watt linear amplifier. All we got all night long was skip and finally someone in Texas relayed the message to someone, who relayed it on to my parents. I told them to say we were alright, just a little stuck and we would hike out in the AM (It was all downhill and we had sleds) Of course they got it all wrong and told my parents we were in serious trouble and crashed, etc, etc. Next morning, just as I was about to hike down and get help (we spent all night trying to dig out, but the packed ice under the car set like cement) we heard a 4x4 coming. My dad, my uncle and one of the Mission 4x4 guys were trying to come up the last hill to the top where we were. They had snow chains on all 4 and making super slow progress. (I noted he had Goodyears and decided never to buy them) After threatening to kick my ass for worrying them so much, we all loaded into the 4x4 (my dad said we would leave my POS to rot for all he cared) and headed back down. I drove my wife's '66 Nova to work all week, then bribed one of the guys there (who had Cooper Discoverers on his Blazer) with $50 and a case of beer (didn't get opened till he got home) to go in and unstick my car. (I was worried someone had messed with it, but except an empty beer can on the antenna and a track around it, nothing was wrong. It's like they didn't touch the car out of awe for what it had accomplished) He hooked on, pulled me 3 feet, and I was on my way again! He wanted to pull my car all the way down backwards! I said, "that's allright. Just follow behind me and give me a push if I need one!" I backed into the snowbank uphill at the corner and spun my wheels, but didn't stop rolling more than 1/4 second as I turned around California style and drove out to the bottom without a hitch. I finally sent that car to the junkyard a year later, due to frame rust (it was from Onatario originally) but I decided ground clearance was the way to go offroading. I've been pretty much a pickup man since, though I've had a lot of cars for daily drivers to try to save money on gas (I usually drove and fixed them, then sold them to start over) At the time of my separation from my first wife in '83, I had close to 50 classic or hotrod cars and 3 work trucks (and 1 play truck. '80 IH 1210 with 258, 5 speed std and 4x4 1 ton axles on a black shortbox stepside. It had Coopers too) From: Brazzadog-at-aol.com Subject: fsj: Re: Towing with Jeeps and swaying In a message dated 7/10/2003 12:35:21 PM Pacific Standard Time, owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net writes: >From: "Stephen D. Thompson" > >Are Coopers any good? If not, I will probably go with BFGs for >dry, and BFGs or Nokias for studs. That9s probably a grand at least in >tires though so will have to take that one step at a time. I have noticed that my '71 Wagoneer is very susceptible to body roll in crosswinds, particularly when heavily loaded. Some of the worst were experienced between Baker City, Oregon and Boise, and along the Columbia Gorge. Improvements I've noticed in order of occurrence are: new steering components and front wheel bearings, new rear wheel bearings, BFG ATs in place of Sears Roadhandlers (both run at 50 psi), and Hellwig overload springs. My Wag has no sway bars. The addition of such would make a huge difference as well. I just bought a set of Cooper Discoverers for my wife's Bronco. They were significantly cheaper than the BFG's. I looked at Les Schwab tires and didn't like what I saw. The Cooper Discoverer tread design has been around a long time and continues to get good reviews. The science has evolved since they first came out, but they are a good combination of quiet and traction for mostly-pavement use. One other significant consideration for me is that the BFG ATs hydroplane a little more easily than most other comparable tires. They also offer better dry traction, but you can't have everything. I didn't want my wife to have to remember that she was using traction tires when she hits the rare rainstorm at highway speeds. We've only had the Cooper's a couple of months, but so far they seem to be a good choice. I used it to pull the neighbors 3500 lb ski boat a few days ago and the tires did fine on the boat launch. The BFG ATs are acceptable in snow, but no substitute for a real snow tire like a Nokia. They did fine on a midnight run from Bend to Klamath Falls in a snowstorm, but I wouldn't want to depend on them for regular snow use. The BFG's meet my needs because I use one tire all year long and rarely see snow. When I used to invest in snow tires the Nokias were head and shoulders above the rest - without studs. Now I keep one set of used studded tires around for my wife's use during the occasional ice storm (worst winter weather we get). They never have great tread, but it's the studs that make the difference in ice anyway. Ben Williams '71 Wagoneer '78 Cherokee Chief '78 F-250 4x4 '88 Bronco ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 13:48:40 -0700 From: Kevin Pekarek Subject: Re: fsj: Filler hose needed On Fri, Jul 11, 2003 at 07:25:38AM -0700, allyoop wrote: > I'm in need of a replacement gas filler hose for my '73 J-4000. It's an > S-shaped rubber tube about 2 1/2 inches inside diameter and maybe a foot > long, that runs down from the filler cap and connects to a steel tube that > runs back to the tank itself. Just had to do this for the 74. You aren't going to find that hose. Take your old one down to a muffler shop (and I don't mean midas - you need one where they actually bend tubes), and have them duplicate the hose bends with exhaust pipe that has the same OD as your filler hose's ID. Once you have the bent pipe, go to napa (or somewhere like that) and buy about a half foot of straight fuel filler hose, cut that in half, and use each half to attach the muffler shop pipe to the metal lines currently in the truck. I think I originally got this suggestion from Jim Blair. Good luck. K - -- Kevin Pekarek Redwood City, CA (near San Francisco) and Los Osos, CA (near San Luis Obispo) 74 Cherokee 2 door (258 1bbl, T15, D20, open 3.54 d44's) 77 Cherokee 4 door S (401 4bbl, TH400, BW QT, open 3.54 d44's) ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2003 23:59:47 -0700 From: "Mike - G" Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review Nobody knows how long mud-tires last, people who own them, actually use them off-road and they usually get popped by a sharp rock, or a stick. LOL Well, I've had at least two of my 32" BFG M/T's for over 4 years on two different vehicles. Those vehicles I used on-road as my only transportation, and off-road as my wheelie vehicle, that I wheel hard at least once a month, sometimes more. I don't exactly know the mileage, but I do drive a lot, but I may be able to find out if I dig hard in my files. Anyway, it's a lot, and I think that is due to the huge lugs and deep tread, they last a long time. The tread depth is 17/32 on a tiny tire, and 21/32's on the bigger tires. - ---- mike-g-at-mike-g.net . http://www.mike-g.net/ W6MKE boom.boom.beep.beep 5.5" lift, 32" tires, 4.56's, gears, detroit locked 8.8 - ----- Original Message ----- From: George Milam To: john ; Jim B Cc: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: fsj: Re: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review > How long should a good mud tire like my GoodYear MTR's last me if I use them > for my everyday driving? > > George > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john" > To: "Jim B" > Cc: > Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:37 PM > Subject: fsj: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review > > > > we'll see how long they last George... biggest > > beef I've had with ANY Goodyear is life... I've > > done a lot of GY over the years and they all wear > > out way too fast... BFG's of various types have > > always held up for a long time... > > > > john > > > > At 07:41 PM 7/10/2003 -0700, Jim B wrote: > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: George B. Milam, IV > > >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:23 PM > > >To: Jim B > > >Subject: GoodYear MTR review > > > > > >I've been towing with GoodYear MTR's at full pressure on my '89 Wag. > Best > > >tires I've ever run. They're spendy but they are about a 5 or 6 ply tire > > >and they kick ^$$. The lugs are thick and they do hummm a bit on the > > >pavement but damn do they bite and dig in off road. > > > > > >I've been doing alot of varried terrain off roadin' lately. I was at > about > > >a 60 ish degree angle on some soft rocky stuff yesterday in 4 lo and it > was > > >like butter. You feel them slip and then they grab and it's adios from > > >there. I've only had to air down in the really soft silty dusty stuff to > > >get good traction going up steep hills. The side biting lugs really make > a > > >huge difference over the BFG's I had. > > > > > >Oh, and I forgot to mention, they look really cool and I've even seen a > few > > >heads turn to look at the tires as folks walk by her when she's parked. > > > > > >Love 'em and would highly recomend them. > > > > > >IS ANY BODY ELSE RUNNING THESE? > > > > > >George > > >'89 Wag "Moose > > >VT > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Jim B" > > >To: "local Jeep list" > > >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:57 PM > > >Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > > > > > > > > > > A: Check the frame rail just ahead of the driver's side rear tire for > > >rust! Do > > > > you have a full frame hitch? That makes a big difference along with > tire > > > > pressure. I used air shocks in my '83 Cherokee when towing. If they > were > > >low, > > > > it swayed like crazy (it did when I had a loose wheel bearing as well) > > >Pumped > > > > up, I hauled my 5 ton trailer at 55 mph no problem. > > > > > > > > From: "Stephen D. Thompson" > > > > Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just started towing my 17.5 foot outboard ski boat with my 83 > full > > > > size cherokee (the Silver Bullet :-)). We have been having high > winds, > > >even > > > > for here in the Idaho mountains, this summer. I towed the same boat > on > > >the > > > > same trailer behind my 90 4Runner before getting the FSJ. I did not > > > > experience much swaying with the 4Runner (once in a while with hard > > >braking > > > > coming down twisty and steep Galena pass) . However, on the flat with > the > > > > Silver Bullet, I have experienced some scary swaying, seemingly > related to > > > > wind. What are some steps I can take to reduce it? Can I add a leaf > or > > >two > > > > on the rear springs? (Visually, the rear sags just a little with the > > > > trailer on. It did with the 4Runner too). Does tongue weight make a > > > > difference? Can I somehow adjust the tongue weight? It is a single > axle > > > > "Shoreliner" trailer with a 17.5 Sea Swirl with a 120 Johnson bought > in > > >Kent > > > > in 1988. > > > > > > > > This topic is timely as a friend of mine just passed away after the > large > > > > model year 200 Ford F250 or 350 crew cab with a loaded Wells Cargo > type > > > > trailer swayed and tangled with a dump truck after attempting to pass > in a > > > > windy area. Thanks in advance for the comments. > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > Steve Thompson > > > > P.O. Box 1707 > > > > Ketchum, Idaho 83340 > > > > Phone: (208)726-4518 > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 00:01:41 -0700 From: "Mike - G" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review Really? Is the MT/R's? I heard they do wear faster then the BFG M/T's. Mine have lasted a lot longer then that, maybe even twice that, I'd have to think about the last two vehicles mileage when I bought them, and they are more then 1/4 tread. - ---- mike-g-at-mike-g.net . http://www.mike-g.net/ W6MKE boom.boom.beep.beep 5.5" lift, 32" tires, 4.56's, gears, detroit locked 8.8 - ----- Original Message ----- From: john To: George Milam ; Jim B Cc: Sent: Friday, July 11, 2003 7:13 AM Subject: Re: fsj: Re: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review > depends on your driving style... even with mild driving > mine only lasted about 20,000 to 30,000 miles... :( > > john > > At 08:58 AM 7/11/2003 -0400, George Milam wrote: > >How long should a good mud tire like my GoodYear MTR's last me if I use them > >for my everyday driving? > > > >George > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "john" > >To: "Jim B" > >Cc: > >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 11:37 PM > >Subject: fsj: Re: Fw: GoodYear MTR review > > > > > > > we'll see how long they last George... biggest > > > beef I've had with ANY Goodyear is life... I've > > > done a lot of GY over the years and they all wear > > > out way too fast... BFG's of various types have > > > always held up for a long time... > > > > > > john > > > > > > At 07:41 PM 7/10/2003 -0700, Jim B wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: George B. Milam, IV > > > >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 7:23 PM > > > >To: Jim B > > > >Subject: GoodYear MTR review > > > > > > > >I've been towing with GoodYear MTR's at full pressure on my '89 Wag. > >Best > > > >tires I've ever run. They're spendy but they are about a 5 or 6 ply tire > > > >and they kick ^$$. The lugs are thick and they do hummm a bit on the > > > >pavement but damn do they bite and dig in off road. > > > > > > > >I've been doing alot of varried terrain off roadin' lately. I was at > >about > > > >a 60 ish degree angle on some soft rocky stuff yesterday in 4 lo and it > >was > > > >like butter. You feel them slip and then they grab and it's adios from > > > >there. I've only had to air down in the really soft silty dusty stuff to > > > >get good traction going up steep hills. The side biting lugs really make > >a > > > >huge difference over the BFG's I had. > > > > > > > >Oh, and I forgot to mention, they look really cool and I've even seen a > >few > > > >heads turn to look at the tires as folks walk by her when she's parked. > > > > > > > >Love 'em and would highly recomend them. > > > > > > > >IS ANY BODY ELSE RUNNING THESE? > > > > > > > >George > > > >'89 Wag "Moose > > > >VT > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > > >From: "Jim B" > > > >To: "local Jeep list" > > > >Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2003 9:57 PM > > > >Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > > > > > > > > > > > > > A: Check the frame rail just ahead of the driver's side rear tire for > > > >rust! Do > > > > > you have a full frame hitch? That makes a big difference along with > >tire > > > > > pressure. I used air shocks in my '83 Cherokee when towing. If they > >were > > > >low, > > > > > it swayed like crazy (it did when I had a loose wheel bearing as well) > > > >Pumped > > > > > up, I hauled my 5 ton trailer at 55 mph no problem. > > > > > > > > > > From: "Stephen D. Thompson" > > > > > Subject: Re: fsj: Towing with Jeeps and swaying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just started towing my 17.5 foot outboard ski boat with my 83 > >full > > > > > size cherokee (the Silver Bullet :-)). We have been having high > >winds, > > > >even > > > > > for here in the Idaho mountains, this summer. I towed the same boat > >on > > > >the > > > > > same trailer behind my 90 4Runner before getting the FSJ. I did not > > > > > experience much swaying with the 4Runner (once in a while with hard > > > >braking > > > > > coming down twisty and steep Galena pass) . However, on the flat with > >the > > > > > Silver Bullet, I have experienced some scary swaying, seemingly > >related to > > > > > wind. What are some steps I can take to reduce it? Can I add a leaf > >or > > > >two > > > > > on the rear springs? (Visually, the rear sags just a little with the > > > > > trailer on. It did with the 4Runner too). Does tongue weight make a > > > > > difference? Can I somehow adjust the tongue weight? It is a single > >axle > > > > > "Shoreliner" trailer with a 17.5 Sea Swirl with a 120 Johnson bought > >in > > > >Kent > > > > > in 1988. > > > > > > > > > > This topic is timely as a friend of mine just passed away after the > >large > > > > > model year 200 Ford F250 or 350 crew cab with a loaded Wells Cargo > >type > > > > > trailer swayed and tangled with a dump truck after attempting to pass > >in a > > > > > windy area. Thanks in advance for the comments. > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > - -- > > > > > > > > > > Steve Thompson > > > > > P.O. Box 1707 > > > > > Ketchum, Idaho 83340 > > > > > Phone: (208)726-4518 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > > > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > > > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > http://www.WAGONEERS.com/ > Snohomish, WA - where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... > Jesus, don't leave life without him, please! > ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2003 04:38:57 -0700 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: It's alive! My son and I finally got the J4000 finished enough to drive (took all week because of the $#-at-^&* heat! The $100 portable 10'x20' car awning sure helped a lot!), and for it's shakedown cruise, after driving up to 70 mph for 5 miles at night to test it for brakes and steering (found loose Ubolts and steering box and drum brakes suck! Especially with an old electric trailer brake attached), we loaded an Olds 350 rocket and trans, Nissan motor and trans, a couple other trans cores, 500lb weight set and bench, my son's clothes, console TV, and the Superwinch bumper I had from the '76 Blazer along with a couple chainsaws and sundry other items. It ran flawless, but we did this at night and none of the gauges are working yet (I'll pop the OEM ones from Black Jack in their place for now. I have to setup custom gauges for that anyways) but it only hissed and spit for a second or 2 after pulling up a 5% hill at 40 mph. We went to a lot of work to make this come out right, and got the $#!T scared out of us when we went to fire it up. We pulled the valve covers and all the rockers so we could retorque all the headbolts. Good thing I did, because more than 1/2 the headbolts were close to finger tight! We accidentally got one of the pushrods out of the lifter and on fire up, it had a helluva knock! Luckily, only a pushrod got tweaked. Compression is still 150 across the board and it idles so smooth that my bottle of Mountain Dew sat on the vent cowl and only had ripples like the water in Jurrasic Park when T Rex came around. We did the headbolts because it had a bad miss before and seemed sluggish in the AMX, plus it was running a little hot, but not quite boiling after running less than 5 minutes and I found a lot of other loose fasteners. Still need to fully address that issue with one of the new thermostats that flow better and a coolant flush. It currently has almost pure water except the tiny bit of old antifreeze mix from the heater and bottom of the rad that we didn't flush first. I changed the waterpump with the one from the 360 which looked like new. I took off the old one, after I discovered what I thought was a non-moving impeller, but it was really a piece of the spring from the bottom rad hose that had moved into the housing. It seemed like the pump was starting to bind up, so I swapped it anyways to be safe. Tomorrow, I'll be putting on new hoses after flushing the system and it'll have 50/50 fresh coolant as well as water wetter put in and a new thermostat. Then I have to track down the source of vibration (feels like a driveshaft out of synche, but it's not unless it's 180 out) and a noise that sounds like chain clanking (I'm pretty sure it's the QT chain. There's a HUGE clunk when I put it in reverse coming from the case, but not in drive) I need to find out if I can change the chain w/o taking apart the case. I know already that it has a part time kit in it (It has Selectro hubs) and I think it may even have the 16% kit in it. (3.73 gears, with 29" tires and it cruises at 70 no prob) I also need to fix the shifter so it goes into first gear manually (can't get it to go far enough down) It feels pretty soft shifting and like it's taking off in second gear. Drive shifts in slushy too. (TH400) I may just have to get more serious about getting an early '80s Chev TH400 23 spline output shaft and NP208 to convert this truck over! (Someone suggested using the bellhousing adapter I have with a 700R4 trans and NP case!) ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #1972 **************************