From listmom-at-listserver.tehabi.com Wed Mar 12 18:01:03 1997 Return-Path: listmom-at-listserver.tehabi.com Received: from listserver.tehabi.com (listserver.tehabi.com [207.167.76.152]) by wagoneers.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA24630 for ; Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:00:43 -0800 Received: from listserver.tehabi.com (207.167.76.152) by listserver.tehabi.com with SMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:04:44 -0800 Sender: fsj-list-at-listserver.tehabi.com Errors-To: listmom-at-listserver.tehabi.com Reply-To: fsj-list-at-listserver.tehabi.com Message-Id: <1353932669-at-listserver.tehabi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" From: fsj-list-at-listserver.tehabi.com X-Listserver: Macjordomo - A Macintosh Listserver by Michele Fuortes Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:03:47-0800 Precedence: Bulk To: Multiple recipients of Subject: FSJ-List-Digest - Number 220 Status: RO FSJ-List-Digest Wednesday, March 12, 1997 Issue 220 Today's Topics: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive FW: WTB AMC V8 Distributor Re: FSJ-List-Digest - Number 219 RE: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive RE: FSJ-List-Digest - Number 219 Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive Hey John, where are you? Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 Some Dyno Iterations for Brad's 258(kinda long) Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 The Want List Disregard previous Want List Re: Some Dyno Iterations for Brad's 258(kinda long) Grand Wagoneer NP 207 and 228 xfer cases Re: 35 now 36sKen Re: Grand Wagoneer Clean up after cleaningup (or what to do with stuff) Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 Re: Grand Wagoneer Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive '71 360 Long Block For Sale Re: Clean up after cleaningup (or what to do with stuff) Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 Correction/Tow Hooks/Doh. Damaged Quadra Trac?? Holy COW...CIS has fixed my e-mail! RE: Gears, Installing in a Dana Diff RE: Gears, Installing in a Dana Diff ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:30:57 -0700 From: dmatheny-at-mutoh.com Subject: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive >>>Joe Sego and the guy at the local 4x4 both explained to me that if >>>I put a hand vacuum pump on the QT Control diaphragm on the >>>transfer case that I should be able to get it to switch off and on in >>>that manner if the diaphragm is good. Well it didn't,in fact I got no >>>vacuum pressure at all on either the release and apply side. My >>>next step is change the diapragm. Does anyone have one that they >>>would like to sel(or know where I can get one). I have a diagram of >>>how it connects into the transfer case which indicates that an o ring >>>and 2 retaining rings hold in place. How do you get to the retaining >>>rings? The diaphragm is so close to the trans case that I can't even >>>see them. I figured out why the light was flashing. The plug that >>>goes to the QT unit was loose and therefore causing the flickering. >>>Once I pushed the plug on the light stayed on. If anyone can help >>>I can definately use it. I'm stranded in the driveway until I solve this >>>problem. >>>Thanks, Bob >> >> Bob, >> Well I hate to tell you....but...I think you'll have to pull the >> case to install the diaphram. I just had mine out last fall and >> replaced the diaphram and front seals. IMHO there is no way of >> doing it without removing it :-( I need to do the same.... > >You only need to remove the back cover of the QT case to replace >the vacuum diaphram. This is much easier than removing the entire >case, although it is STILL a pain in the butt! If anyone needs info on >doing this, I have docs from when I put in a Mile Marker part-time >conversion kit in my '78 Wag. > >c-ya, >Steve Whitney, '78 Wag I don't remember pulling the case of the back cover of the case to get the control diaphragm out. There is a small rectangular cover on the top side of the case just above and in front of the diaphragm. When you remove this cover you can get to the lock rings. I seem to remember a spring and ball bearing thing.... Hold on, let me check my manual.... OK, here we go: (1) Remove vent cover and sealing ring. (2) Remove retaining rings which position shift fork on diaphragm control rod. NOTE: The shift fork may be pried forward or rearward to gain access to the retaining rings. (3) Remove spring using magnet. NOTE: The diaphragm control rod is held in position by a spring loaded detent ball.(There is a picture in the manual showing a magnetic rod being inserted in the hole in the case in front of the opening, just above the end of the control rod.) (4) Insert magnet into opening before removing diaphragm control (fig. 8-55 (picture described above)) (5) Remove diaphagm from case cover. (6) Remove detent ball and spring. Hope this helps, it matches my memory of how this works C Ya, Dan '77 J20, 360, QT; '95 ZJ Laredo, 318, QT ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 08:07:00 PST From: "Jandrt, Rick" Subject: FW: WTB AMC V8 Distributor Unfortunately Ash didn't supply his e-mail address, but I have a delco points dist. from a 71 360 I'd be willing to let go for $20.00 plus shipping. I'm in Lakewood, Colorado. Rick(chocolate moose) rjandrt-at-msgate.litc.lockheed.com (303) 988-4049 >I am in need of an AMC V8 distributor. The distributor does not need to = >be complete. All I need is the body and the shaft of a Delco points = >type distributor, but I will buy a complete one if that is all I can = >find. I am in the process of making a custom distributor and I do not = >want to cut up the distributor that I have. =20 > >Please E-Mail directly to me. I get the FSJ list in digest mode and I = >might miss your post. > >Thanks, >Ash ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:26:40 -0500 (EST) From: Geoguytom-at-aol.com Subject: Re: FSJ-List-Digest - Number 219 I just listed some FSJ parts for sale on my web page: http://members.aol.com/geoguytom/index.html If you are interested please stop by and take a look. Thanks, Tom ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:42:57 -0800 From: "Renshaw, Ken" Subject: RE: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive >---------- >From: Joe Sego[SMTP:jsego-at-ai2a.net] >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 1997 8:52 AM >To: Multiple recipients of >Subject: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive >I'll tell you this, the WORST part of the QT >removal is disconnecting the front driveshaft at the QT case. Those >four bolts are the world's toughest to get out. VERY tight space. > >Matter of fact, next time I do this I will only unhook front >drive shaft at the front differential and let the shaft come out >with the case (thanks to M. Baxter's suggestion!) That's how I do it now, after scraping many a knuckle... > >C'ya >Joe- -Ken 1979 Wagoneer 'Babe' 360/ProJection/QT 36" SX's, 4.88's Dana 44's, ARB's > > > > > > > >--------------------------------------------------- >To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the >command >"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 09:52:50 -0800 From: "Renshaw, Ken" Subject: RE: FSJ-List-Digest - Number 219 Tom- I want the gas tank! I didn't see a phone number or address on your URL.... -Ken 1979 Wagoneer 'Babe' 360/ProJection/QT 36" SX's, 4.88's Dana 44's, ARB's (408)744-3945 Home (408)984-2131 Work (800) 970-5298 Pager krenshaw-at-resumix.com >---------- >From: Geoguytom-at-aol.com[SMTP:Geoguytom-at-aol.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 1997 9:26 AM >To: Multiple recipients of >Subject: Re: FSJ-List-Digest - Number 219 > >I just listed some FSJ parts for sale on my web page: > >http://members.aol.com/geoguytom/index.html > >If you are interested please stop by and take a look. > >Thanks, >Tom > > > >--------------------------------------------------- >To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the >command >"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 11:32:37 -0700 From: swhitney-at-presto.GIS.Pima.GOV. (Steve Whitney) Subject: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive This is true, you don't necessarily need to pull the back cover off. My only experience is from putting the part-time kit in. If there's enough room to get at things from underneath then that's definitely the way to go! c-ya, Whit. Steve Whitney, '78 Wag Tucson, AZ swhitney-at-gis.pima.gov > > I don't remember pulling the case of the back cover of the case to get > the > control diaphragm out. There is a small rectangular cover on the top > side > of the case just above and in front of the diaphragm. When you remove > this cover you can get to the lock rings. I seem to remember a spring > and ball bearing thing.... Hold on, let me check my manual.... OK, here > we go: > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 10:50:16 -0800 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: Hey John, where are you? So John, You've been very quiet lately, I guess class has been keeping you pretty busy, huh? I wanted to let you know that sure enough, there was a bad U-joint, but it wasn't in the front knuckles like we thought. There was a bad joint in the rear driveshaft. Remember that "shimmy" you pointed out that was just like Ol' Blue's but at a higher speed. Well...that was the cause. There is no more shimmy! I'll bet that once you get a chance to check over Ol' Blue's drivetrain, you'll find that's the source. I'm going to be climbing under the Cherokee to see if I can locate some of those rattles we heard on Camino Cielo. I have a feeling they might have something to do with the fenderwells. I can't wait to see how the pictures from last weekend turned out! I hope you got a picture while I was climbing that big hill with the parking brake accidentally still on. I know Doc will REALLY appreciate that one! Hey MasterDan, (by the way, I forgot to ask where the "Master" part came from). How much did you say you paid for your Rancho lift? I found out there actually is a 4x4 shop here in Goleta and I got a quote of $389 for the 2.5-3 in. lift without the shocks or installation. I wanted to compare with what you paid. It might be worth a drive if there's enough savings. See ya later, Tom Anhalt '81 Cherokee Laredo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 14:50:47 EST From: rdmbfe-at-micro.lucent.com (M_B_FEICK) Subject: Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 I'll post the results tonight. >>>>>> Excellent! How did they explain the 280 duration thing? Was that a typo? >>>>>> I talked to them before I saw that post. Run that by me again in detail so I can question them on that. What exactly do you think is wrong? Sounds like they have yet to understand the power of computer modelling ;) I agree that the simplified dyno program won't be 100% accurate on absolute results (although they DO claim it is up to 95% accurate), but it's real benefit is in judging the relative effects of changes, especially of the camshaft timing. >>>>>> Agreed, also no susbstitute for the dyno, but much easier to cyber-fit than the "wrench-and-pray" method. A question I have is how does that program do what it does? Did they research every motor on the program (heads, etc.) to make these predictions? Do they account for ignitions? port and polish? gasket match? Do you have an auto or stick transmission? >>>>>>> Auto Don't those 4.09 gears cause the rpms to be up compared to if you had a lower ratio? >>>>>> Absolutely. Again, I wanted low range-idlin'-over-the-trail grunt, and stump pulling (or the like) power. Everything I want to do with this truck requires torque not HP/MPH. On my ocasional jaunt to the NE chapter meeting the highway torque/HP numbers don't really concern me. Those gears should help the 258 achieve exactly that, yes? The numbers from that cam show a really good boost in torque over the stock cam up to 3000 rpm. The thing I didn't like about the curve is that it was constantly decreasing through that range (and pretty steeply, too) so the more it revs, the less it pulls. Like I said before, I like a flat (but high) torque curve. >>>>>> I'd like to see it when done on the chassis dyno. After I do the run with 9:1 compression, I'll also do runs with headers for both the 8:1 and the 9:1. Thanks for sharing this info, Brad. I'm sure we'll all be interested in hearing about your field testing! Take it easy. >>>>> This build-up will tell us: what is possible with a reasonably tight 258 without a complete all-out rebuild (this is more of a freshening) AND What is possible without cutting heads and headers. In other words what can be done with no external clues to mods. The .060 head shave meets that metric as well. However this also will show what you can do yourself in the garage without visits to the machine shop, 'cause the problem with that is where do you stop? "Well if you're gonna put in a cam you oughta do headers and if you're doing that you really should cut the heads/cook the block/teflon paint the oil galley/cross drill the crank/align the air cooled electric pony harness...." I would like to compare other mild idle torque cam specs apples to apples with the Crower. Don't forget MANNERS and DRIVABILITY is somewhere there in the mix too! Brad Feick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:13:00 -0800 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: Some Dyno Iterations for Brad's 258(kinda long) Brad, I stopped home at lunch today and decided to run some of those iterations you were curious about. with 8:1 compression, stock manifolds: stock "Baja Beast" rpm hp torque hp torque 2000 73 191 88 231 2500 91 192 105 221 3000 114 200 120 209 3500 132 198 119 179 4000 142 186 108 141 4500 142 166 86 100 5000 128 135 57 59 5500 110 105 24 23 6000 85 74 0 0 With 8:1 compression and headers: stock "Baja Beast" rpm hp torque hp torque 2000 85 222 100 264 2500 107 224 116 244 3000 127 222 131 230 3500 148 222 136 204 4000 163 214 127 167 4500 163 190 109 127 5000 148 156 87 92 5500 133 127 61 58 6000 109 96 27 24 With 9:1 compression, stock manifold: stock "Baja Beast" rpm hp torque hp torque 2000 77 203 94 246 2500 97 204 112 235 3000 121 212 128 223 3500 140 210 129 193 4000 152 199 119 156 4500 155 181 98 114 5000 143 150 69 73 5500 125 120 37 35 6000 101 88 2 2 With 9:1 compression and headers: stock "Baja Beast" rpm hp torque hp torque 2000 89 234 106 277 2500 112 236 123 258 3000 134 234 139 243 3500 156 234 145 218 4000 173 227 137 180 4500 176 205 120 140 5000 162 170 99 104 5500 147 140 72 69 6000 123 108 39 34 Happy comparison shopping!!! Tom Anhalt '81 Cherokee Laredo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 12:30:34 -0800 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 M_B_FEICK wrote: > > How did they explain the 280 duration thing? Was that a typo? > >>>>>> > I talked to them before I saw that post. Run that by me again in detail so I > can question them on that. What exactly do you think is wrong? > The "advertised" duration was 280 degrees but if you work it out from the valve timing, the intake is 216 and the exhaust is 232. > Agreed, also no susbstitute for the dyno, but much easier to cyber-fit than > the "wrench-and-pray" method. A question I have is how does that program do > what it does? Did they research every motor on the program (heads, etc.) to > make these predictions? Do they account for ignitions? port and polish? > gasket match? The program is based on a more complex $600 program called Dynomation that use fluid dynamics and cylinder pressures to calculate the results. Obviously, they've simplified a few things so they can sell you a $40 version. There is a lot of chevy and ford V8 settings already loaded in but it also allows you to customize some of the parameters. As far as ignition goes, one of the major assumptions is that it is set up perfectly and the ignition occurs at the optimum time. One of those necessary simplifications, I guess. This shouldn't be so bad since the purpose of the program is to be a preditor of potential performance given a certain parts mix. > > Do you have an auto or stick transmission? > >>>>>>> > Auto > The reason I asked is that with my auto tranny, the rpms tend to "live" between 1500 to 3500 rpm. I would want my torque curve to be nice and flat through that range. > Don't those 4.09 gears cause the rpms to be up compared to if you had a lower > ratio? > >>>>>> > Absolutely. Again, I wanted low range-idlin'-over-the-trail grunt, and stump > pulling (or the like) power. Everything I want to do with this truck requires > torque not HP/MPH. On my ocasional jaunt to the NE chapter meeting the > highway torque/HP numbers don't really concern me. Those gears should help > the 258 achieve exactly that, yes? Well, except with the lower gearing, your engine will be operating in a relatively high rpm range off road and you may not see the benefit of the 1000-2000 rpm torque peak. > I'd like to see it when done on the chassis dyno. That would be cool. We could see first hand how good the program is. Tom Anhalt '81 Cherokee Laredo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:06:26 From: "Baxter Enterprises Inc. d.b.a. Baxter Advertising" Subject: The Want List The "Want" List a service of the Full-Size Jeep List. If you would like to be added to the list or if you need to delete items, please send e-mail to: 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com (Michael Baxter) ------------------------------------------------------ Joe Sego wants: 79 Cherokee- -. A dash clock, digital or manual, as long as it works -. Tailgate weather stripping that goes -outside- the glass on the lip of the gate. ------------------------------------------------------ Joe W. Schaefer Nordland, WA USA joes-at-olympus.net wants: Re: 73 J-4000 w/Townside box -. Hardware for the tailgate. The brackets that go on the box for the latch and support straps. -. "Quadratrac" and "Full Time 4WD" emblems for the front fenders. ------------------------------------------------------ Michael Baxter 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com '79 Cherokee and '79 Wagoneer -. Left front fender NOS Indian motif body stripe for '79 Wide-Track -. Complete core Dana 44HD & Dana 60 from a '76-'79 Q-T equip'd J-20. ------------------------------------------------------ Ken Wetherall kenns-at-concentric.net 1. A 1966-1968 Jeep Super Wagoneer. All original, Complete, Running, In good condition. (Now that's a wish!!) 2. Jtruck 4spd w/ matching D20 ------------------------------------------------------ Landen Schooler skoullar-at-ix.netcom.com 515-989-0196 after 9:00pm cst 1. I need two stock L6-226/OHC6-230 to T-98/T-18 (Jeep bolt pattern) bell housings option on all 1957-1965 trucks and wagons. These are on all stock M-715 Jeep military trucks and varients. 2. Looking for 540 rear mounted Agri PTO gear box, 6 spline or flat belt, also PTO in/out box and drive shaft (from P/U if possible) to rear unit. 3. Oil bath air breather for L6-226/w WCD 2-V carb, 2 5/8" straight neck. ------------------------------------------------------ john-at-wagoneers.com I'd like for Old Blue (81 Wagnr Ltd): 1. original Jeep brush guard 2. J10 grille with the embossed Black Jeep in the center (with rectangular headlights, 81 & up?) 3. a windscreen for my sunroof 4. a front bumper like java joe's... (will trade my 81 aluminum bumper for it...) 5. a rear wiper 6. panel service rear doors 7. a Diesel motor or Fuel Injection 8. a 4speed OD AT 10. a new radiator 11. a factory tranny cooler 12. a limited slip rear end 13. factory fog lights 14. ARB air locker for the front axle 15. a Class II or III 2" receiver hitch 16. a functioning & correct color parcel cover 17. one of those welder/hi-output alternators 18. new floormats 19. better gas mileage ------------------------------------------------------ Mick Delaney 1975 Wagoneer -. Need complete driver-side front door. J-2000 pickup -. AM/FM stereo radio and faceplate - factory condition -. 2 stock 16inch 5 lug wheels -. emergency brake cable shroud/cover for rear section. ------------------------------------------------------ GypsyLive-at-aol.com -. some nice chrome center caps to go on the rear wheels of my 1980 widetrack -. Id love to have or even SEE a factory brush guard -. Turn signal housings for the front, not the lenses, (where the bulbs screw in!) -. That wheatherstripping on the front roll up windows (they leak) -. Some Nice bucket seats to replace my wore out ripped low back seats! ------------------------------------------------------ "Brandt, Kirk" For My 88 Grand Wagoneer I need: -. Factory Manual(s) -. Rear Wiper and/or Rear Wing that mounts to the Luggage Rack ------------------------------------------------------ "Dennis M. "Doc" Fariello" -. NP208 'case to go behind T-176 tranny -. right taillight assembly -. windshield washer bottle -. blank plate in dash where clock goes - tan interior -. a pair of rear 6-lug brake drums ------------------------------------------------------ Alfred Esposito 71672.1151-at-compuserve.com -. Wiper motor for my '89 GW ------------------------------------------------------ Carlo Calica For a '90 Grand Wagoneer: -. Center Caps for the factory wheels. -. Rear wiper motor ------------------------------------------------------ Brad Feick rdmbfe-at-attme3.micro.lucent.com '78 J20- -. Gladiator or early Wagoneer grille -. Roll bar for J20 -. Brush Guard for J20 -. Light Bar for J20 -. unchipped black early Bakelite steering wheel (had rim-blow and cool center -. cap made of pot-metal with clear center showing Jeep emblem) -. rear slider window -. have lots of parts to trade... ------------------------------------------------------ Brian Riggs -. 1976 - 1980 WT Cherokee Body and Frame. Needs to be at least near rust free and have floorboards. I don't care about the windows or any of the trim. Just the basic body and frame. Needs to be in the western half of the U.S. so I can tow it on a trailer back to SLC Utah. ------------------------------------------------------ brad alan reardon For a 79 Wagoneer: -. Grille -. Front right turn signal -- Michael Baxter 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com baxter-advertising-at-worldnet.att.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 13:24:42 From: "Baxter Enterprises Inc. d.b.a. Baxter Advertising" Subject: Disregard previous Want List Hey guys...disregard the Want List sent just previous to this message and I apologize for sucking-up band-width. I was talking with a WorldNet Tech. about not being able to send large files without having their mail servers quit responding in the middle of the upload. He had my add a MaxFrameSize=1000 line to my system.ini file and I qued-up all my unsent large messages and Phhhhhbt away they went. Ooops. The Want List just sent in most likely not the most recent so, just delete the thing. I was having trouble with anything over 4-5K and the Want List is about 8K. I sent it everyday for about 4 days prior to when it finally went and showed-up two days ago. The one from two days ago is the most recent list. But, the good part is now I can indeed send large msgs. again and Doc now has a pic. of ListMom (as long as he can decode it) along with some good shots of the Last Wag. to put up on the IFSJA Page. So I blew it but, it isn't quite as bad as the my last faux pas which involved a continuious duty relay in the Motorhome....ah but that's another story :-) -- Michael Baxter 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com baxter-advertising-at-worldnet.att.net http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 16:02:24 EST From: rdmbfe-at-micro.lucent.com (M_B_FEICK) Subject: Re: Some Dyno Iterations for Brad's 258(kinda long) Brad, I stopped home at lunch today and decided to run some of those iterations you were curious about. >>>>>> WAY WAY EXCELLENT INFO!! WOW! Look at that 277 torque number with 9:1 and headers! Yikes! I'm gonna chew on this for awhile. Thanks very much!! Brad Feick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 16:39:22 EST From: "Sam Wallace" Subject: Grand Wagoneer Hi folks, I'm brand new to the listserv, but I'm really happy to run into a bunch of gearheads that might have a clue about how to keep the big ol Jeeps on the highway! I've got an 84 Grand Wagoneer with a 360. I would like to figure out what to do with the engine. It's got 130,000 miles on it and the body is in really great shape (no rust, paint covering most of the body, and the woody sides are more or less intact). The engine, however, is near death. I like the car and I want to keep it. I've got 35 kids (Ok, 3) and I like having a big roomy vehicle to haul them around in, but I am not minivan material and I can't bring myself to consider spending 35 grand on something like a new sububan that all the yuppie types are driving to the mall. Anyhow, here's the issue: Should I rebuild my 360 (all 129 HP) or should I go to something else? I'm not opposed to sinking a few bucks in it. I would even consider buying a brand new engine. I just want to keep my Jeep and I want it to be dependable. Any insight would really be appreciated. Sam Wallace ---------------------------------- Samuel P. Wallace, Ph.D. Department of Communication University of Dayton Dayton, OH 45469-1410 513-229-4626 FAX: 513-229-2055 wallace-at-udayton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 14:00:05 -0800 From: bks-at-co.intel.com Subject: NP 207 and 228 xfer cases Just what in the heck is the NP207 and the NP228? I see reverences to them but I don't have a clue. I know what the NP208 and the NP229 are. Were the NP207 and NP228 just early versions of the NP231/241 and NP249 (or whatever)? -curious brad ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Mar 1997 14:01:11 -0800 From: SuperKen Subject: Re: 35 now 36sKen two things ismo, 1..u cant get one in finland? 2..gee what is the postage to ship a 4 lb package to finland?? ik3274-at-tutech.fi wrote: > > How much do you want for it to be posted to Finland? > > ismo > from warm and sunny Finland (no snow for two weeks now) > -- Sincerely kenneth e. wetherall If a Wagoneer can go where a kenns-at-concentric.net CJ can go, then it's a Super Wagoneer. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:08:28 -0600 From: "Jeff Gunn" Subject: Re: Grand Wagoneer Sam: I think that you could rebuild your 360 and with a few modifications get a decent torque/hp curve at the same time. First, while the heads are off you could have them milled to up the compression ratio to 9:1 or so. That alone is good for increases across the entire RPM range. You could also have a better cam installed and improve your torque curve. Neither of these should cost much since the engine will already be apart and you should probably replace your cam anyway. These mods would be undetectable by the emissions testers, unless you go with a lopey cam, which is really more for high HP street/race engines than torquey RV type motors like ours. You should also consider upgrading your ignition system. This helps emissions and power throughout the RPM range. IMHO, these three things will help the engine without costing much more than a rebuild alone, they should not increase emissions, and should give the most bang-for-the-buck improvements. You could also replace your intake with an aluminum Edelbrock or other 4-barrel intake, and get a 4-barrel carb to go with it, although now you are talking about more money and possible problems with refitting your emissions equipment. Some of the guys have done some buildups on their 360s already, and may be able to offer more specific advice. Anyone else? Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 14:13:28 -0800 From: bks-at-co.intel.com Subject: Clean up after cleaningup (or what to do with stuff) When I was much younger, Pops and I would happily clean our greasy jeep parts in an old hub cap full of gas. When we were done, the gas would be pretty gunky, and we would just pour it on the ground in a spot beside out house. (In those days Pops had an old flat fender and I had a 69 CJ5). So what I would like to know is how do you guys clean your parts, and what do you do with any solvents/whatever that is left over? I don't have a clue about a decent way to dispose of this stuff, and I'm not going to dump it in my yard or down a storm drain. Any advice? -toxic waste brad ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 16:55:47 EST From: rdmbfe-at-micro.lucent.com (M_B_FEICK) Subject: Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 The reason I asked is that with my auto tranny, the rpms tend to "live" between 1500 to 3500 rpm. >>>>>> yeah, I'm with you there Well, except with the lower gearing, your engine will be operating in a relatively high rpm range off road and you may not see the benefit of the 1000-2000 rpm torque peak. >>>>>>> Well, I don't know about that-at least I felt for stepping over obstacles it would be perfect-I'd like to interpret your dyno numbers in another post, so I'll just say here that it looks like the headers flatten things out nicely. Also 9:1/stock cam/headers looks like a great all around set-up. > I'd like to see it when done on the chassis dyno. That would be cool. We could see first hand how good the program is. >>>>> I wonder how much that is? Also I wonder how much the numbers for the stock exhaust are effected by what Mike Baxter said about the flow of AMC exhaust. Brad Feick ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 97 17:06:19 EST From: rdmbfe-at-micro.lucent.com (M_B_FEICK) Subject: Re: Grand Wagoneer I just want to keep my Jeep and I want it to be dependable. Any insight would really be appreciated. >>>>>> You seem like an excellent candidate for a GM crate motor! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 05:28:57 -0500 From: Joe Sego Subject: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive At 08:30 AM 3/12/97 -0700, you wrote: >You only need to remove the back cover of the QT case to replace the vacuum >diaphram. This is much easier than removing the entire case, although it is >STILL a pain in the butt! If anyone needs info on doing this, I have docs from >when I put in a Mile Marker part-time conversion kit in my '78 Wag. > >c-ya, >Whit. > >Steve Whitney, '78 Wag >Tucson, AZ >swhitney-at-gis.pima.gov I don't think that would help, the cover that needs to be removed is on the top of the case towards the passenger side and on an angle. At least on my Cherokee, there is no way of getting those clips out blindly. Plus you risk losing that small ball for the indent. I lost that metal ball on mine with the QT unit on the garage floor! Right into the case it falls. arghhh!!!! If the diaphram is located on the rear half of the case then it would work. I can't remember which half of the case it's on. C'ya Joe- also stuck in E. Drive ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 13 Mar 97 15:37:00 PST From: "Jandrt, Rick" Subject: '71 360 Long Block For Sale I've got a '71 360 long block I'd like to get rid of. It was running when removed from a Cherokee and has about 130,000 miles on it. If anyone is interested, I would like to get $150.00 FOB Denver for it. Rick '83 CJ-7(chocolate moose) WB9PII, AMSOIL (303) 988-4049(H) Lakewood, Colorado OSHWEGO JEEPERS, Colorado Association of 4 Wheeldrive Clubs, Inc, United 4 Wheel Drive Association, rjandrt-at-msgate.litc.lockheed.com [>|]=:} ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:52:41 -0600 From: "Jeff Gunn" Subject: Re: Clean up after cleaningup (or what to do with stuff) Toxic Waste Brad: First, I use alot of Brake Parts Cleaner, which evaporates quickly and leaves little or no trace of itself. If I use something else, I try to catch it in a pan, or if I'm soaking, I try to keep it in the pan as much as possible. Then I dump what's left in my oil-catch pan that I use for fluid changes. That way the next time I take my oil into the local parts store to be recycled or whatever they do with it the other hazardous material is disposed of as well. I don't know how they (the parts house and recycler) feel about it, but I figure it's the best way to deal with it. Jeff ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:57:38 -0700 From: swhitney-at-presto.GIS.Pima.GOV. (Steve Whitney) Subject: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive > From listmom-at-listserver.tehabi.com Wed Mar 12 15:55:33 1997 > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Listserver: Macjordomo - A Macintosh Listserver by Michele Fuortes > Date: Thu, 13 Mar 1997 05:28:57 -0500 > From: Joe Sego > To: Multiple recipients of > Subject: Re: Part2.Help!! Stuck in Emergency Drive > > At 08:30 AM 3/12/97 -0700, you wrote: > >You only need to remove the back cover of the QT case to replace the vacuum > >diaphram. This is much easier than removing the entire case, although it is The access cover is located on the rear half of the case. I agree that it would be easier to access the cover et. al. with the back of the case out, at least it was when I put in the part-time kit. I had enough trouble just getting at all the LARGE parts when I was taking off the back half while lying on my back and stretching my neck to see what the $#-at-^% I was doing! c-ya, Whit. Steve Whitney, '78 Wag Tucson, AZ swhitney-at-gis.pima.gov > > If the diaphram is located on the rear half of the case > then it would work. I can't remember which half of the case it's on. > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 15:20:30 -0800 From: Thomas Anhalt Subject: Re: Desktop Dyno and the 258 M_B_FEICK wrote: > Well, except with the lower gearing, your engine will be operating in a > relatively high rpm range off road and you may not see the benefit of > the 1000-2000 rpm torque peak. > >>>>>>> > Well, I don't know about that-at least I felt for stepping over obstacles it > would be perfect-I'd like to interpret your dyno numbers in another post, so > I'll just say here that it looks like the headers flatten things out nicely. > Also 9:1/stock cam/headers looks like a great all around set-up. > That's why when I ever get around to rebuilding my 258, I'll probably stick with a cam that's the same duration (or just slightly shorter - like 254 degrees) but with higher lift. Another option would be to stick with a cam that has the same duration (264), or slightly longer, and use some high leakdown lifters (I think Rhoads makes some) that make the cam act like the duration is 20 degrees shorter at low rpms but gives the full duration at higher rpms. Unfortunately, Desktop Dyno can't simulate this. Then, since the heads will have to be reworked anyway, I think I'll have the shop mill it down to bump up the compression and install slightly larger valves (as long as there isn't any valve shrouding problems). And, of course, I'll top it all off with a Mopar MPI and a Borla Stainless (50 state legal) header. Actually, if I use the MPI, I think I need to research what is the best cam to use based on the preprogrammed ignition curve. I may just live with the carb if the MPI will limit my tuning capability. > > I'd like to see it when done on the chassis dyno. > > That would be cool. We could see first hand how good the program is. > >>>>> > I wonder how much that is? Also I wonder how much the numbers for the stock > exhaust are effected by what Mike Baxter said about the flow of AMC exhaust. > There's a place here in town called Dynomotive and I'm considering finding out how much it is to chassis dyno. If it seems reasonable, I think I would actually want to baseline it before the rebuild, and then go back and have them do it again and actually tune the advance curve, etc. to get the most out of the mods. Tom Anhalt '81 Cherokee Laredo ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:42:18 -0500 (EST) From: Mark Wallace Subject: Correction/Tow Hooks/Doh. Well since I've been in Maryland I'm about 6000 digests behind. Correction...I came up with the idea of the 2002 Trip to Ouray. I did NOT come up with the idea of a New England FSJ group. I will probably do a lot more research and probably do a fair amount of planning and coordinating for the Ouray Trip (which is about 1% of the reason that I'm going there this summer). For a rear tow hook the factory class three reciever hitch is about as solid as anything out there. Front represents a bit of a problem. I've seen occasional tow hooks mounted on the passenger side where the steering box would mount if you were in England. Steve Nordby's was among them. Henry's solution works (I've seen them in action) pretty well too. I've also seen a tow hook mounted on a piece of plate steel bolted to several places along the side frame rail. I would concur that the bumper or it's brackets are a poor place to mount a tow hook...and with the way a strap works like a rubber band, and the aversion I have to being killed in a really stupid manner I'd make sure that you mount a tow hook in a solid location. Anyway my building's hot water heater exploded...I gotta look at the damage in detail...I sure hope it didn't get to my back seat or else locker gets shoved further down the list in favor of upholstory. Later Mark ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 18:55:50, -0500 From: LHQT20A-at-prodigy.com (MR ROBERT A HOWELLS) Subject: Damaged Quadra Trac?? Thanks to the help of many people on this list I think that I have diasgnosed my problem and know where to get the parts and diagrams needed to get things working again. I am worried though. Because of the bad electrical connection from the QT unit to the Emergency Drive light I don't know how long I was actually in emer.dr. I still don't know why it swithed in by itself. And I know that it hasn't always been in because I have been trying for 6 months to get it to go "in".Anyway my question is what kind of damage could have been done to my trans. case if I was driving In emr.dr. above the recomended speed limit for a period of time? Thanks,Bob ------------------------------ Date: 12 Mar 97 20:02:21 EST From: Michael Baxter <74172.1164-at-CompuServe.COM> Subject: Holy COW...CIS has fixed my e-mail! Gees...I hate it when this happens. Well after 13 days and 4 exchanges with CIS Customer Service, it appears that they have fixed my outbound e-mail problem and what does this all mean to you guys on the list? Well, since I just checked my WorldNet account and found every test message I sent in the last 13 days, it means they also sent a bunch of old junk to the list! So if it's from my Compuserve account, check the date and if it's old just delete it. And the best part is you are going to get yet another outdated copy (or more) of the Want List. Gees...when I have a problem it does turn-out to be a big one eh? -- Michael Baxter at 74172.1164-at-Compuserve.com http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/MBaxter From Reno, NV USA on 12-Mar-1997 !^NavFont01F0007MGHHHF1D38A ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:50:41 -0800 From: billy dunn Subject: RE: Gears, Installing in a Dana Diff At 05:32 PM 3/11/97 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >in reply to krenshaw's memo > >>I have a second set of diff carrier bearings that are milled out to >slip-fit the carrier, to >make shimming easier. > >Hi Ken > >Are the milled out bearings used just for setup, or permanently? > >Do you have one of those Dana case spreaders that are used to install and >remove the diff? > >How much does a case spreader go for and where can they be purchased? Any >other special tools needed? Preload guage?? etc.? > >Will the same spreader work on both a Dana 44 and a Dana 60 > >TIA >Dave > > >I use a set of bearings like that too.You just use them to get the right pattern on the ring gear.A case spreader is not necessary you can get away without it.You are going to need a run out gauge though.That way you can check pinion depth.If you are not sure just get someone who KNOWS what they are doing and have them help you do it.You may have to pay a little to get tutored but its worth it when its done right. Billy 79 J10 360,t400,d20 d44,d60 > > >--------------------------------------------------- >To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command >"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 12 Mar 1997 17:53:07 -0800 From: billy dunn Subject: RE: Gears, Installing in a Dana Diff At 03:45 PM 3/11/97 -0800, you wrote: > > >>---------- >>From: Dave Read[SMTP:DSREAD-at-hewitt.com] >> >>in reply to krenshaw's memo >> >>>I have a second set of diff carrier bearings that are milled out to >>slip-fit the carrier, to >>make shimming easier. >> >>Hi Ken >> >>Are the milled out bearings used just for setup, or permanently? > >Just for shimming. Then I press the "new" ones on. >> >>Do you have one of those Dana case spreaders that are used to install and >>remove the diff? > >You mean a big pry bar? ;-) >> >>How much does a case spreader go for and where can they be purchased? Any >>other special tools needed? Preload guage?? etc.? > >Dunno about the spreader.... > >You can either use a pinion depth gauge and a dial indicator for the >ring backlash, or as I do, use the same tool for both. >It's a magnetic-base dial indicator with a gooseneck, commonly called a >limp d**k. Other than that, use the bluing to read the mesh pattern, as >the contact pattern tells all. >> >>Will the same spreader work on both a Dana 44 and a Dana 60 > >Again, dunno. >> >>TIA >>Dave > >-Ken > >1979 Wagoneer 'Babe' >360/ProJection/QT >36" SX's, 4.XX's >Dana 44's, ARB's >> >> >>KEN you and I must work exactly alike(SCARY)thats the same thing I use.... And FWIW I havent had a failure yet:) Billy 79J10 P.S.You'll like them TSL SXs they are great...Glad to see ya move to a decent tire.....:) > > > >--------------------------------------------------- >To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command >"unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message. > > > > ------------------------------ End of FSJ-List-Digest #220 ************************************ --------------------------------------------------- To Unsubscribe send email to macjordomo-at-listserver.tehabi.com with the command "unsubscribe FSJ-List" in the body of the message.