From owner-fsj-digest-at-digest.net Tue Nov 11 13:10:25 2003 From: fsj-digest fsj-digest Tuesday, November 11 2003 Volume 01 : Number 2044 Forum for Discussion of Full Sized SJ Series Jeeps Brian Colucci Digest Coordinator Contents: RE: fsj: RE: Re: 401 mated to a TF727 fsj: Decisions Re: fsj: RE: Re: 401 mated to a TF727 Re: fsj: Decisions RE: fsj: Decisions Re: fsj: Re: HELP Re: fsj: Re: HELP Re: fsj: decisions, decisions.... Re: fsj: decisions, decisions.... fsj: Re: free carfax check nov10 fsj: 4 wheel parts link to our website? FSJ Digest Home Page: http://www.digest.net/jeeps/fsj/ Send submissions to fsj-digest-at-digest.net Send administrative requests to fsj-digest-request-at-digest.net To unsubscribe, include the word unsubscribe by itself in the body of the message, unless you are sending the request from a different address than the one that appears on the list. Include the word help in a message to fsj-digest-request to get a list of other majordomo commands. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 13:12:08 -0500 From: James Isennock Subject: RE: fsj: RE: Re: 401 mated to a TF727 Don't worry about the tourqueflight and the 401. If a torqueflight can hold up to a race HEMI and last 100,000 miles in a 440 powered motorhome no AMC 401 is gonna hurt it. All of the HD OEM auto's (TH400, Mopar 727 and Ford C-6) have proven over thirty years or so to be about equal and excellent in strength and longevity. Jay Isennock - -----Original Message----- From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 1:10 PM To: Dan Black; ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: 401 mated to a TF727 thanx dan... john At 05:53 AM 11/10/2003, Dan Black wrote: >Also other AMC cars from those couple years, including (I believe) the >Javelin and Ambassador. The parts store should be able to tell you. >I'm about to do the same to my '88 (replace a 360 with a 401), and I >bought that flexplate months ago; it was about $45, IIRC (brand new). > >{- At 05:10 PM 11/9/2003, Jim Sterling wrote: >{- >He needs a flexplate for a 72 or 73 Matador with a 401. (they had the >{- >torquecommand (torqueflite) trans. That's it. >{- > >{- >Jim Sterling > >{- >-----Original Message----- >{- >From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of >{- >john >{- >Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 3:32 PM >{- >To: ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com >{- >Cc: fsj-at-digest.net >{- >Subject: fsj: Re: HELP >{- > >{- >I'm not sure if you could use the 360 flex plate or not... but that >{- >torqueflite >{- >may not hold up too well to a 401. I'll post this to the fsj list and >{- >see if >{- >anyone knows... >{- > >{- >john >{- > >{- >At 07:04 AM 11/9/2003, ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com wrote: >{- > >HI JOHN, >{- > > MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME OUT WITH A PROBLEM, I HOPE. I HAVE A 1987 >{- >JEEP >{- > > J-20 WITH A 360 UNDER THE HOOD AND IT HAS 148,221 MILES ON IT. SO ME >{- >AND >{- > > A BUDDY DECIDED TO DROP IN A 401. WELL EVERYTHING WAS GOING GOOD UNTIL >{- >WE >{- > > YANKED THE ENGINE AND SAW THAT THE TORQUE CONVERTER FOR THE 727 >{- >CHRYSLER >{- > > TRANNY HAD A 4 BOLT PATTERN AND THE FLEX PLATE FOR THE 401 HAD A 3 >{- >BOLT >{- > > PATTERN. WE FOUND OUT THAT THEY PUT A 400 TURBO CHEVY TRANNY BEHIND >{- >THE >{- > > 401'S AND WE DON'T WANT TO END UP SWAPPING OUT THE TRANNY TOO. WOULD >{- >YOU >{- > > KNOW IF THERE IS AN EASY FIX TO THIS PROBLEM ? ANY INFORMATION YOU >{- >MIGHT >{- > > HAVE COULD BE A GREAT HELP TO US. WE HAVE THE LORD ON OUR SIDE AND WE >{- > > KNOW HE WILL GUIDE US THROUGH THIS WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM OUR FRIENDS >{- >!!!!!!! >{- > >THANK YOU JOHN AND HAVE A GREAT DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >{- > > WADE TAYLOR >{- > > RED LION PA. > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- > That would be... pretty good... > -- the Sultan >-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org >-------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:42:12 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: fsj: Decisions Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 22:49:01 -0800 From: john meister Subject: fsj: decisions, decisions.... Decisions, decisions... I'm trying to decide if I should take on an '82 300SD with a bad engine, moldy interior, a few electrical door switch "issues" as a project... (the engine appears to have either a broken ring or a hole in the piston... runs on 4/5 cylinders) or tackle a '79 J10 Golden Eagle with an oil leak (supposedly a 401), loose steering column, bad vent window and "some assembly required". Comes with it's own hornets nest too... :) The '82 300d pictures are at: http://www.wagoneers.com/DieselBenz/CARS/82-300sd/ The '79 Golden Eagle is at: Wonderful thing about decisions, is the freedom of being able to make them.... about the camera, how do you get one that would improve the engine shot, this is my most feared shot, of something very dark with the camera in sunlight, or vice versa. What should I look for in a camera that will take good unlit underhood shots of an FSJ? - - Landon P.S. - Hi Jim S. Glad to have you on the list! ==================== http://www.wagoneers.com/FSJ/rigs/79-GoldenEagle-J10/ Initial investment on both is about the same... I think the Benz will get spendy in a hurry though... probably an additional $1,500. But the end price tag will be around $3 - - - $4k and I might keep it and sell my '91 300d if I don't find a UNIX Sys Admin job soon... The J10 will mainly take labor... but less then the engine R&R on the Benz... hmmm.... only problem is the net value of the J10 will only be around $2k or so... maybe more, hard to say... and it'll get around 10mpg vs. 30mpg... (but it'll haul gravel... ;) Any thoughts? Oh yeah, one other thing... if I go with the J10 I'll probably trade my current digital camera (Olympus C-730) for it and then buy the latest C-750... 3.2M pixels to 4.0 and from 1/2 seconds to 16 seconds exposure! If I can work the trade I'm going that route... Guess I'll decide tomorrow... If I don't go with the Benz I'll pass along the contact info... I know a few folks that might be interested... NO RUST... (I love living out here in the Pacific Northwest!!!!!) later, john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:46:12 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: 401 mated to a TF727 yeah, but you forget that the TF272 used in Jeeps is NOT the same one used in Mopar vehicles... I've been very unhappy with TF727's in Jeeps... junk... lighter duty junk... john James Isennock wrote: >Don't worry about the tourqueflight and the 401. If a torqueflight can hold >up to a race HEMI and last 100,000 miles in a 440 powered motorhome no AMC >401 is gonna hurt it. All of the HD OEM auto's (TH400, Mopar 727 and Ford >C-6) have proven over thirty years or so to be about equal and excellent in >strength and longevity. > >Jay Isennock > >-----Original Message----- >From: john [mailto:john-at-wagoneers.com] >Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 1:10 PM >To: Dan Black; ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com >Cc: fsj-at-digest.net >Subject: Re: fsj: RE: Re: 401 mated to a TF727 > > >thanx dan... > >john > >At 05:53 AM 11/10/2003, Dan Black wrote: > > >>Also other AMC cars from those couple years, including (I believe) the >>Javelin and Ambassador. The parts store should be able to tell you. >>I'm about to do the same to my '88 (replace a 360 with a 401), and I >>bought that flexplate months ago; it was about $45, IIRC (brand new). >> >>{- At 05:10 PM 11/9/2003, Jim Sterling wrote: >>{- >He needs a flexplate for a 72 or 73 Matador with a 401. (they had the >>{- >torquecommand (torqueflite) trans. That's it. >>{- > >>{- >Jim Sterling >> >>{- >-----Original Message----- >>{- >From: owner-fsj-at-digest.net [mailto:owner-fsj-at-digest.net] On Behalf Of >>{- >john >>{- >Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2003 3:32 PM >>{- >To: ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com >>{- >Cc: fsj-at-digest.net >>{- >Subject: fsj: Re: HELP >>{- > >>{- >I'm not sure if you could use the 360 flex plate or not... but that >>{- >torqueflite >>{- >may not hold up too well to a 401. I'll post this to the fsj list and >>{- >see if >>{- >anyone knows... >>{- > >>{- >john >>{- > >>{- >At 07:04 AM 11/9/2003, ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com wrote: >>{- > >HI JOHN, >>{- > > MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME OUT WITH A PROBLEM, I HOPE. I HAVE A 1987 >>{- >JEEP >>{- > > J-20 WITH A 360 UNDER THE HOOD AND IT HAS 148,221 MILES ON IT. SO ME >>{- >AND >>{- > > A BUDDY DECIDED TO DROP IN A 401. WELL EVERYTHING WAS GOING GOOD >> >> >UNTIL > > >>{- >WE >>{- > > YANKED THE ENGINE AND SAW THAT THE TORQUE CONVERTER FOR THE 727 >>{- >CHRYSLER >>{- > > TRANNY HAD A 4 BOLT PATTERN AND THE FLEX PLATE FOR THE 401 HAD A 3 >>{- >BOLT >>{- > > PATTERN. WE FOUND OUT THAT THEY PUT A 400 TURBO CHEVY TRANNY BEHIND >>{- >THE >>{- > > 401'S AND WE DON'T WANT TO END UP SWAPPING OUT THE TRANNY TOO. WOULD >>{- >YOU >>{- > > KNOW IF THERE IS AN EASY FIX TO THIS PROBLEM ? ANY INFORMATION YOU >>{- >MIGHT >>{- > > HAVE COULD BE A GREAT HELP TO US. WE HAVE THE LORD ON OUR SIDE AND >> >> >WE > > >>{- > > KNOW HE WILL GUIDE US THROUGH THIS WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM OUR >> >> >FRIENDS > > >>{- >!!!!!!! >>{- > >THANK YOU JOHN AND HAVE A GREAT DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>{- > > WADE TAYLOR >>{- > > RED LION PA. >> >>--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >---- > > >> That would be... pretty good... >> -- the Sultan >>-------------- Dan Black ------------------------- dan-at-black.org >>-------------- >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------ >john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't > rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! >------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 10:50:16 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: Decisions Landon, It's not the camera, it's the photographer... you need to meter the shot on an average reading in the engine bay... or use a flash... it's tricky with digital cameras because they're so smart they're stupid. :) Many digitals have the ability to aim at a point, hold the shutter part way and then move the camera back out to where you want to frame the picture and then follow through... the other trick is to bracket exposures. Nice thing about digitals is if you have the memory and batteries you can take multiple shots to make it work. :) FWIW, I've been very happy with the Olympus Digital cameras. I've looked at others but I keep coming back to Olympus, excellent optics and the electronics keep getting better.. john Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: >about the camera, how do you get one that would improve the engine shot, this is my most feared shot, of something very dark with the camera in sunlight, or vice versa. What should I look for in a camera that will take good unlit underhood shots of an FSJ? > >- Landon > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:58:25 -0700 From: Tesar Landon-r16884 Subject: RE: fsj: Decisions Wow. That's intense. It's like a robot camera. - - L - -----Original Message----- From: john meister [mailto:wagoneers.com-at-comcast.net] Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 12:50 PM To: Tesar Landon-r16884 Cc: fsj-at-digest.net Subject: Re: fsj: Decisions Landon, Many digitals have the ability to aim at a point, hold the shutter part way and then move the camera back out to where you want to frame the picture and then follow through... the other trick is to bracket exposures. Tesar Landon-r16884 wrote: >about the camera, how do you get one that would improve the engine shot, this is my most feared shot, of something very dark with the camera in sunlight, or vice versa. What should I look for in a camera that will take good unlit underhood shots of an FSJ? > >- Landon > - -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:16:48 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: HELP A: WARNING! WARNING! There is a thin sleeve in the pilot hole of the crank of any AMC motor that had a AMC patterned TH400 on the back of it! If you bolt a 727 up to it, the trans will self destruct in a hurry! (The unipattern ones don't have the sleeve AFAIK and the hole is large enough it may require a sleeve to work with 727) Aside from that, it needs the car 401 flexplate. From: john Subject: fsj: Re: HELP I'm not sure if you could use the 360 flex plate or not... but that torqueflite may not hold up too well to a 401. I'll post this to the fsj list and see if anyone knows... john At 07:04 AM 11/9/2003, ROADKILL4YOU-at-aol.com wrote: >HI JOHN, > MAYBE YOU CAN HELP ME OUT WITH A PROBLEM, I HOPE. I HAVE A 1987 JEEP > J-20 WITH A 360 UNDER THE HOOD AND IT HAS 148,221 MILES ON IT. SO ME AND > A BUDDY DECIDED TO DROP IN A 401. WELL EVERYTHING WAS GOING GOOD UNTIL WE > YANKED THE ENGINE AND SAW THAT THE TORQUE CONVERTER FOR THE 727 CHRYSLER > TRANNY HAD A 4 BOLT PATTERN AND THE FLEX PLATE FOR THE 401 HAD A 3 BOLT > PATTERN. WE FOUND OUT THAT THEY PUT A 400 TURBO CHEVY TRANNY BEHIND THE > 401'S AND WE DON'T WANT TO END UP SWAPPING OUT THE TRANNY TOO. WOULD YOU > KNOW IF THERE IS AN EASY FIX TO THIS PROBLEM ? ANY INFORMATION YOU MIGHT > HAVE COULD BE A GREAT HELP TO US. WE HAVE THE LORD ON OUR SIDE AND WE > KNOW HE WILL GUIDE US THROUGH THIS WITH A LITTLE HELP FROM OUR FRIENDS !!!!!!! >THANK YOU JOHN AND HAVE A GREAT DAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > WADE TAYLOR > RED LION PA. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:29:24 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: Re: HELP A: I've been checking around and it seems to me that the 727s mostly drop out because A) they didn't have proper fluid/filter changes, B) when installing a new motor people didn't notice the crank sleeve from a TH400 in the pilot hole of the crank (I know at least 1 person that put THREE 727s behind his motor before I figured out what his problem was. Trans lasts less than a month usually) C) Torque converter wasn't all the way seated in the trans front pump during motor swap, which causes the pump gears to crack and disintegrate over a fairly short period. D) No trans cooler and hauling loads (clogged in rad cooler especially! Just found out that's why my J4000 was dropping out of drive on the highway and not taking off in first! Had it been a 727 and not TH400 it probably would have died with someone else driving it) E) Passing gear linkage set for a soft shift (or someone doing valve body work to keep it from "shifting like a truck") PS: I just got a 999 (baby brother to 727) from a '00 Wrangler with the hole for the crank position sensor! I'll be able to use that in my J10 for now to convert the current 258 (from the '82 Eagle I parted) to EFI later while I can make it driveable for the winter too! From: john Subject: fsj: Re: HELP I'm not sure if you could use the 360 flex plate or not... but that torqueflite may not hold up too well to a 401. I'll post this to the fsj list and see if anyone knows... john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:34:00 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: Re: fsj: decisions, decisions.... A: Much as I know John is having fun, all you have to do is look behind the motormount on the block of any newer than '70 AMC motor to see what size the block was originally (this doesn't include people doing things like a crank swap, boring, sleeving for bigger pistons, etc. Now the Stroker list and AMC-list are talking boring, stroking and sleeving a 4.0 to 300+ cubic inches!) BTW John, what's the story on the Wag behind the J10? From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: decisions, decisions.... agreed... talked to my buddy and he's interested in the swap for the camera... he's even willing to fix a couple things, leaving me with a couple of things... :) he claims it has a 401 in it... how does one confirm a 401 again? :) john ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 14:22:49 -0800 From: john meister Subject: Re: fsj: decisions, decisions.... I'm sure it's for sale... Jim B wrote: > > BTW John, what's the story on the Wag behind the J10? > - -- ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 20:24:10 -0800 From: john Subject: fsj: Re: free carfax check nov10 At 05:24 PM 11/10/2003, Scott wrote: >Look at the line just under the first paragraph of this news story: >http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/news/7oys/110903_7oys_odometer.html free only for nov 10... (it's 8pm seattle time) I ran the carfax on my benz, '87 xj and '83 j10. lame reports actually... I've got more information in the glove box then on those reports... I can't imagine paying $20 for one of these reports... I would think that the local license agency could do the check for you on their computer either w/o charge or for a very slight fee. I'm sure the dealer would be more helpful... None of the vehicles showed the original registration info/location. My benz didn't reflect that it's been registered in three states other then what showed up on the report. My J10 didn't even register until it had 68,000 miles on it, only two readings provided. It also showed it as having a 3.7L L6 2bbl with OHV. It's a 4.2L... How can they claim no odometer readings on it when they only have two readings 9 years apart and nothing from the '80s??? They show 2 owners on my J10... I know there were at least three, possibly 4 from what I've been able to determine. They show three owners on my benz, that might be closer to reality, but still excludes the IL & WI records I have, they don't pick up until it's in CO. Since the Benz was serviced at MB dealers the info should be there... For grins I found the VIN for the '88 XJ, the little wagoneer, TWO TIMES TOTALLED, last time sold at an insurance auction... both times the titles were reissued... Both times major insurance companies reported them as totalled, had the titles declared TOTAL LOSS! on 1/6/98 it shows a title issued, then on 1/7/98 shows a title issued... that's when I reregistered it after a complete WA State Police Inspection because it had been totalled. All the paperwork with the DMV and WASP showed that it had been totalled. FUD and "vaporware" is all CarFax is... This convinced me that they are as bad as their fear mongering advertisements... thanx for letting us know about the free check... :) john - ------------------------------------------------------------------ john at http://wagoneers.com from Snohomish,WA- where Jeeps don't rust, they mold... reminding you not to leave life w/o Jesus! - ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 11:33:11 -0800 From: "Jim B" Subject: fsj: 4 wheel parts link to our website? We can tell a lot more people about FSJs and that with a link to their site. http://www.4wheelparts.com/club_program.asp Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack (getting lifted and stroked!), '73 J4000 304/TH400/QT tow truck (it's alive!!), '83 Eagle wagon (soon to be modified!)http://www.virtualjeep.com ------------------------------ End of fsj-digest V1 #2044 **************************